Skip to main content

My Stolen Childhood (ex Jehovah's Witness)

My Grandad holding me, and my brother.

My Grandad holding me, and my brother.

Me age 5

Me age 5

Me age 6

Me age 6

My Childhood...

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness by my mother and this is my story...

Early Days

My father met another woman & threw my mother out along with myself & my brother. I was about 2 years old, Chris was nearly 6. My mother moved in with her parents for a while, then we moved next door and lived with an old lady. My mother was very depressed as you can imagine. Unfortunately, it was then that a JW couple came knocking, and that was my mother trapped within the grip of the Watchtower cult.

We lived in a small village in between 2 larger towns. To walk to either town was a few miles - I would guess around 3 miles. And my mother walked there to one town, twice a week, in all weathers, rain, snow, hailstones the lot, with two small children in tow. We should've been in our beds tucked up warm, with a cosy bedtime story & warm drink, instead of being out late at night at a two hour long meeting at the Kingdom Hall. The irony was, the husband & wife who got mother into this religion, only lived around the corner, but they never offered us a lift in their car! Neither did any of the other JW's!

My earliest memories were sad - I never remembered a birthday present, as mother stopped celebrating birthdays when she became a JW. Likewise I never remembered Christmas.I used to cry on my birthday - oh how I hated that day...

My brother was unruly & destructive - torn apart from a broken family & a mother who actually had no idea to 'LOVE' her children. I became more & more introverted & withdrawn. I was an outcast at school as I wouldn't speak, I was so shy. I had no idea how to interact with other children, as my mother NEVER invited any round to play & I was not allowed to go to there homes. Association with ''worldy'' people was strictly forbidden by the Watchtower Society.

Later we moved to a town 10 miles away. I missed my Grandparents so much. Life was no better - still a long walk to the Kingdom Hall in the rain at night - still no friends - still sad & lonely. I used to play outside in the garden, digging in the dirt with sticks & maybe my brothers cars if I could 'borrow' one without him knowing.

Baptized at 12

At the age of 12, I chose to get baptized as a JW. I did this solely to get my mothers attention; to make her happy & proud of me. I'm not sure if ever she really was as she never showed much emotion, never mind affection. As a baptized JW, I now had an extra burden to carry - .
Not only were there the meetings 3 times a week, I was now expected to go on the 'ministry'; knocking on doors & trying to sell the Watchtower & Awake magazines. It was awful because I was so shy & if someone I went to school with opened the door, I was cruelly teased at school the next time they saw me.

As I got older, I was no longer ignored at school, I was bullied. Everyday, I was called names & on occasion I was attacked on the way home from school. My mother did NOTHING. She didn't go into my school on parents evening to see my schoolwork & she took no interest in my education, never mind my happiness. I was miserable & dreadfully alone.

Had enough

At the age of 16, I snapped inside, I couldn't take anymore of the hurt I felt inside me. I was unloved & lonely. The people at the Kingdom Hall didn't care about me & how I felt. So, I told mother I was not going to the meetings anymore. She was very upset.
I didn't really do much with my new 'freedom', I was still very shy & didn't really know what it was like out there in the big wide world.

I didn't really do much with my new 'freedom', I was still very shy & didn't really know what it was like out there in the big wide world.
I started smoking - not many, I suppose I thought it 'toughened me up'!
I even had a couple of boyfriends.

I nearly died

Shortly after that when I was about 16 & a half, I became very ill. As mother was very angry with me for not attending the Kingdom Hall any more, she practically ignored me.
I laid in my bed, shivering & shaking & seeing things. (I was hallucinating constantly), my bedding was soaked with sweat. Then I began fitting.
Eventually, mother must have called a doctor as I came too in hospital. But I was too ill to remember much.
I was transferred to a bigger hospital further away & I was diagnosed with a rare form of encephalitis (imflammation of the brain), I also had pnumonia, my lung had callapsed & I was seriously in danger of losing my life.
I had an operation on my stomach & I remember saying ''I can't take blood'' over & over again. My mother wasn't there - the JW's were too mean to bring her often (& they still charged petrol money). The doctors didn't know if I was going to need blood or not, the operation could have been very serious.

However, I didn't have a blood transfusion - they managed without.


About 4 months later I was cast out - disfellowshipped as they call it in the Watchtower.
Mother had found my ciggarettes & my contraceptive pill & SHE informed the elders of my sins.
So, after my disfellowshipping, my mother threw me out of home...
And that is my story of childhood as a JW.

Me age 20 with my first son Michael 1985

Me age 20 with my first son Michael 1985

Me with my first daughter Heidi 1991

Me with my first daughter Heidi 1991

Michael & Heidi holding their new brother George. 1995

Michael & Heidi holding their new brother George. 1995

Heidi & George with their new sister Josephine. 1998

Heidi & George with their new sister Josephine. 1998

Finding My Own Way

So now I was free, but life certainly wasn't easy. 16 years old and out in the big wide world. I was hardly emotionally or financially equipped to take on life in the 'world'.

Scroll to Continue

At least I had my boyfriend back then (the father of my four children), so although I moved several miles away to take a live-in job as a Nanny, I wasn't alone as such.

I made a hell of a lot of mistakes in my life and I really can not bear to write them all here, but suffice to say, with an upbringing as painful and lonely as mine, it's hardly surprising.I have had two very destructive mental breakdowns that near on destroyed me.

My ex husband said to me years ago when we split up, that I was ''always searching for someone better''.

I can respond to that now...Yes, I probably was searching for someone or something. But, what I was searching for, could NEVER be found, for I was looking for a lost childhood to be recovered. I was looking for someone to love me enough to compensate for 16 years of complete and utter solitude and misery.

No one could be that person.

Jehovah's Witnesses - a harmful cult

I am now 46 years of age & I have done so much research into the history of the Watchtower Organization.
Long before Internet was readily available, I bought books, & other Bible versions. I discovered EXACTLY who C.T.Russell was (founder of the JW's), & who J.Rutherford (the next president). They were both Freemasons-which is an occult religion.
I discovered how WRONG their Bible version was (and still is). How doctrines have been altered to fit their own beliefs.
I learned all about the FALSE PROPHECIES - the dates that the 'end of this system' was to occur & didn't.
I found out that they have MISINTERPRETED the Bible so badly, hence their most dreadful doctrine of all - The denial of blood transfusions. Nowhere in the Bible does it say ''Do NOT receive blood transfusions''
The Watchtower has lied & lied & lied & JW's blindly accept all they are told because they are not allowed to question.


Antonio50S on September 10, 2020:

Hi Mandy.

Just wanted to add something to my last comment.

Contrary to what Khalif may think ? The reason JWs used to end the conversations with me in the past was because i knew the Scriptures. Opposing or disagreeing with their views if the bible doesn't say what THEY say it does, is a POSITIVE thing to do, but i was also willing to accept if i was in the wrong about anything.

What became clear over time Mandy, At least with my own observations, they Prefer talking to people who don't have any prior knowledge of the bible. Is that a good thing ? Or a bad thing ? In the mind of people like Khalif who's already decided what truth is, then any prior knowledge of the scriptures would be a bad thing.

Having smiles on your face, being polite and friendly with the public while giving out the magazines is a good thing, but i will Quote a conversation of theirs "Two JW females were commenting about a newcomer who was having a bible study with them, and how happy this newcomer was" In the conversation one of them said "Give it a while, they won't be happy for long" they may not have meant any malice in that comment, but it does show, many JWs themselves are not even happy with their own faith, while preaching the message.

I DON'T believe in disparaging any faith group "As they've been doing for years" And also don't go along with anyone who disparages other faiths just because they Don't Happen to like them. But there's no point in spending your whole lifetime in a Religious Institution preaching the message when your not even happy with it yourself.

Highlighting the contradictions ( Cognitive dissonance ) Mental, Psychological abuses, as well as other abuses that's been going on in the past has NOTHING to do with a Korah attitude, but everything to do with protecting People from Abuses taking place, which in turn will also help individuals to develop their own Personal Faith, with or without the JWs.

Antonio50S on September 07, 2020:

Just wanted to clarify what i meant about "whenever" I ask JWs any Questions.

Though i don't get into conversations with them now, there's Nothing wrong with asking Questions. How do people like Khalif or Mellow know i wasn't hoping they could convince me ? How can they do that when they end the conversation just because i showed them a few verses from the bible which contradict their teachings ? And the Answers they did give was not their own either, they were repeat or standard answers which they all give. They repeat what the GB tells them. OR they would make things up as they go along. ( Which is NOT truth )

Despite What Khalif/Mellow say. We should never assume the majority are in the right, but that don't mean they don't have good teachings either "Because they do" ( As with other's )

Also the idea of the Organization being forward moving gives the illusion they know more than everyone else by claiming to be the "Channel of Communication" between us and God, when really it's Jesus who's the Real INTERCESSOR and mediator for all of us, NOT the GB.

Not even the first century Governing Body or Jerusalem Council of ( Acts 15 ) claimed to be an INTERCESSOR. They knew they had NO right to do that, and Paul "Definitely" knew that as well. If we read some of Pauls letters to the congregations that becomes clear.

Questioning the validity of the Governing Bodies claim to be the "Channel of Communication" is actually a POSITIVE thing to do, in line with Many warnings in the New Testament.

Unlike JWs who have Judged all religious organizations to be wrong except for their own. That goes against what the bible teaches. "Judge Nothing before the appointed time" which "personally" i agree with.

Antonio50S on August 27, 2020:

To Mandy.

( Hebrew 1:1-2 )

About the Question Khalif asked in relation to Korah.

First of all i just want to say, if JWs is the truth, the only ONE truth on earth, then there's no point in "Testing the Spirits" Or to be aware of "False Prophets" in the later days as Jesus warned.

God does use Elders & Servants in the Congregation or Church, as leaders, but Khalif's statement that the Governing Body is a Mediator between us and Jehovah is WRONG.

( Hebrews 1:1-2 ) 1 "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways" 2 "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his SON" ( Jesus )

There's only one INTERCESSOR and MEDIATOR between us and God, and that is the High Priest JESUS himself.

Therefore the JW Governing Body is NOT a Mediator between us and God by "Claiming" to be that Mediator or "Channel of Communication". That view is NOT supported anywhere in the bible. ( Otherwise God would still be using PEOPLE, people like Moses as Prophets and Mediators between us and God )

Even the JWs themselves Quote ( Hebrews 1:1:2 ) Yet at the same time believe God is using the GB as a Mediator, which is a contradiction. Or maybe they are "misdirecting" ? Meaning, the Elders must know what they are talking about to even Quote the verse.

By Questioning the Spirits, and the "Governing Bodies" Claim to be a mediator, is NOT following in the ways of Cain, Balaam, Or "Korah's Rebellion". The example in ( Jude 1:11 ) is about the ATTITUDE OF REBELLION, which really "denies" God is now "using" JESUS, Instead of People like Moses. ( Hebrews 1:1-2 )

One thing i heard JWs say a few times. ( A lot of times, it's us that needs to change our views ) "That is so True" because no matter what the GB or anyone says, God doesn't change his plans for anybody.

And we should never be afraid to Question, and keep testing the spirits, because the real danger is deception as Jesus warned about.

Antonio50S on August 21, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

( Nice Try ) But i must say, though i don't think about the JWs anymore, you did get me thinking about the KORAH Rebellion situation.

You can hardly Accuse me of Usurping the position of God, Or by trying to take up a Position of Power or Importance, "Just for Questioning the Authority of the Governing Body" ( Something we're supposed to do by Questioning the Spirits in the first place. ) Plus, Unlike yourself, I haven't even given my Whole Name. Presumably so you can make a name for yourself Amongst the JWs & GB.

Being aware of the KORAH Rebellious Spirit Still Applies, but so does testing the Spirits.

I never disputed at any time the Importance of Congregational Elders, or Shepherding the Congregation of God, But the Governing Body HAVE gone Above the things Written on many teachings, therefore making it difficult for many JWs to remain within the Organization due to the pressure it puts on them, Including the Psychological Issues it causes them.

Many Religions out there can argue the same point about the KORAH rebellion, by not Questioning THEIR Faith, but NO religious Institution has got the WHOLE truth anyway. SURE we can boast that we don't fight in wars, Or Smoke Cigarettes, but even they don't determine if we have the right heart or not ?

I know many JWs who would LITERALLY FIGHT protect theirs families, and seen a few heavy handed JWs using force to protect their congregation from outsiders. So they are not Exactly Pacifist in the full sense of the word either.

I really DON'T feel I have a rebellious Spirit like Korah, but if it turns out that i do ?? I will acknowledge that before the Most High, Jehovah himself, and ask him for his forgiveness, ( But i will Alway's Question the JWs Claim, or any other religions claim to be used by God ) But as i said in the past, ( God can USE anyone if he wishes ). I think you said in so many words, Jehovah is too Big ? Meaning Jehovah would only uses the JWs. Them words are a ( Misdirection ) Intended to confuse. But the Real Truth is, God can use Anyone.

My OWN definition of a "False Prophets" is not just about the Failed Prophecies themselves, but anything that traps ( *THERE Members into THEIR organization, and stops them from having their OWN faith, Centred on the Teachings of Jesus FIRST* ) If you cannot have that faith INDEPENDENTLY of the Organization FIRST, something even the GB encourage you to do, then it's hard to see how any JWs faith is Real ?

If a Religion can Trap their members Psycholigically, they can also give them Psychological Issues as well, Which in the end STOPS them from moving "FORWARD or BACKWARDS" or from developing your own personal faith.

Plus, Unlike "Moses and Korah" there are many Religions out there now. Many claiming to have the Truth, and claiming to be used by God.

You have to keep testing the Spirits, and keep examining whether you're in the faith or not ? But what we cannot do, is take peoples words for it "That we have the truth" or "We are the truth". The Real Truth, or any Salvation is Centred on the Name and Teachings of JESUS "FIRST"

Antonio50S on August 14, 2020:

Hello Mandy.

Hope you are well, and husband is better.

Though i don't think about the JWs anymore, and NOT directed at them in particular, here's an interesting Yiddish Proverb "A half truth is a whole lie"

Also a Quote from a 12 year Old Girl, which i read. "A truth prophet will always tell the truth, and a false prophet will start telling things which aren't true, once you get to know him. Sometimes a false prophet will even say he is the Messiah"

If a person is Charismatic enough, just like in the case of Russell, People will Trust and Follow them. ( Almost as if a Messiah ) Russell believed in his OWN prophecies so much due to his own Charismatic personality, that people followed him.

I don't think being Charismatic is necessarily bad, but it is bad when it comes to making predictions about Jesus Return, then having other people Follow you in them beliefs, which ultimately failed to come true.

Truths & lies mixed together is a lethal combination which leads to deceptions, and it takes a while to separate the two.

Regarding Perfect, Or the TRUE Religious Organization ? ( It don't exist )

I heard a few Witnesees in the past comment "how beautiful Gods people were at the assemblies" just because they were wearing beautiful dresses. Since when did beautiful dresses make a person beautiful on the inside, or change the heart of Men ? "That's not saying they are bad people either"

If in doubt, Better to follow the teachings of Jesus instead. "Where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name"

Also, How many times have the JWs in their meetings said "Not even many JWs will get through Armageddon either" ?

WHAT'S THE POINT, And Where's the beauty in that ?

Betther to follow the teachings of Jesus, ( If we Choose ) because Everyone will get judged by him in the end anyway.

Hope your husband is OK mandy.

Antonio50S on August 10, 2020:

Hello Mandy.

Just letting you know. In future if i post anything else on here again, I will Address it to YOU, in your Name.

I think i mentioned it in the past "but I don't think about the JWs anymore" and stopped talking with them a long time ago, therefore won't be communicating with them on your Hub again either.

I don't like getting into their thoughts or how they see things anymore, therefore DON'T read anything they say anymore either, but in future, if i post anything else, i will address it to YOU, in your Name.

Antonio50S on August 10, 2020:

OK. Never read what you said, but decided not to write that Hub.

Mellow03 on August 09, 2020:


What ya mean register myself properly? How I am not properly?

Perhaps, they end the conversation because they don't know what to explain accurate or/and because it is trolling that is you are not interested in the understanding of right and wrong, but emotional react in a negative way so not looking for truth and at the same time cause another person to be pulled to your thinking which is wrong.

And they do end the conversation because it is the same as 1 + 1 is 2, so can talk about it that 1 + 1 is 4?? It is logical true so no contradict so your explanation might not contradict their explanation which they are right, but you are wrong because it is about logical compatible, like 1 + 1 is 2, but not 1 + 1 is 4 because 1 represent 1 as a whole, so 2 is two individual of 1 to equal 2.

So, it is connected what I type about positive and negative compatibility so there is a parallel, and the bigger the positive, the bigger the understanding and the logical argument. 1 + 1 is 2 because 1 for anything like a box, computer, etc is always 1 because even it is all different, but it represents 1. So, is positive and negative which has patient and other stuff, that is positive, but unlike negative which Koran bring so it is a contradict to positive so you bring the negative but not understanding to gain positive from them so you accept them, but instead you want them to accept you.

Antonio50S on August 05, 2020:


I read about 5 lines of you post to me. "That's as far as i got"

I think you asked me my definition of a false Prophet ?

( I WILL ANSWER YOU THAT ON MY OWN "HUB" WHEN I WRITE IT ) and you have to register yourself properly on "Hub Pages" as well. Or else i WON'T be answering your Question.

( It's a good feeling knowing when your in the right about things Khalif ) But letting you know, If you write anything more than say 15-20 lines, going on and on and on, talking GIBBERISH nonsense language, or if i think your Attitude don't sound good, i will either Delete or Ignore it.

Just so you know "for now" whenever i get into any conversations with JWs standing there with their Magazines, I ask them Questions about why they think God is using their Organization ? but when i start to explain things from the bible to show they are wrong, "they end the conversation everytime" and they warn other JWs as well. ( We're not even talking Hell, Trinity or Soul doctrines, Just Organization, and their claims to be used by God ). Their Conversation is "One way conversations only" Khalif. Anything that DON'T Agree or Conform to their thinking and teachings on their Organization, THEY END THE CONVERSATION EVERY TIME. They don't want people asking Questions or thinking for themselves, UNLESS you ask the RIGHT Questions which they APPROVE OF.

JWs have been having their Say for years now Khalif, Abusing their Members in One Form or Another. This is OUR time now. If that makes me a KORAH ? Which i know it don't, "SO BE IT" Abused Victims will have their say.

( Deal with it )

You will get your Answer when you get it, "Not Before" You're not going to have me Jumping Around Answering your Questions when you want them.

( Deal with that as well )

As it happens though Khalif, that is a very good Question you asked "The definition of a False Prophet" If it wasn't that Important, why did Jesus spend so much time Talking and Warning about them in ( Matthew 24 ) ? You DON'T need to answer that Khalif, because i already know you don't know by some of the things you said.

When i write my Hub, i will give you my own definition of why Jesus warned about them.

Khalif Foster on August 05, 2020:


What is God-religion? So, the problem if I research like you did so I will see the same thing, the negative part in WTS. So, the problem you have to look at bigger scale that who will decide the negative, you or Jehovah?? You do the positive, so Jehovah will do more negative since He is the owner of all, so no reason to take over as negative except being firm and not cause problem in other person like make other person to feel negative that is high level like anger or anything, or low level like sadness or depression.

It is not our responsivity to do the negative, so that is whole purpose of voting so government take over the decision of positive and negative, so not allow Jehovah to do the negative, and we do the positive. That is logical since we are limit so we don't step ourselves unless Jehovah tell us what to step, as in bible that say 'man do not step themselves as decider of right and wrong' in that way base on one scripture.

So, for the cult part, so it seems your parent wrong you, and JW as being aware that is assume that you are far away so you walk to JW, so they didn't know or Mom told them no or JW didn't feel to help you, if didn't feel to help you, then it is wrong on their part to not make it easier for you and your parent, so the parent didn't make you feel better, so do you hate the parent? If not, then it is not fair you hate GB, but not parent? Since parent raise you, not GB.

The problem you show you keep the negative at start and bring the negative which the negative expand from baptized when you are not ready so it was misleading baptize to your mom, so not for Jehovah.

So, I am wondering did you feel negative to WT before you research before you were 16 yrs old? So, you expand the negative from research you had when younger, so not keep the positive.

So, it is same as person that has parent which a person love the parent so the parent hurt people, but the person got aware of parent hurt another person from other person's statement to them so the person didn't believe another person because 'holding positive to parent', but in opposite way that a person that talk to a stranger, but a stranger hurt other people, so you hear the other person's statement about stranger that hurt other people, so you believe that person, so you hold the negative to stranger.

The point, the emotional connect you had with the person, the holding of positive to that person will be. So, you have low emotional connect but medium to high emotional connect to parent base on physical connect so that help.

I did read other testimonies, so you can read my post and see the point I make that is logical as a whole. Like children to parent, in same principle to JW to Organization/Jehovah. Same as in Moses' time that Moses is connect to Jehovah, so people were connect to him, except Koran which eventually rebel against Moses which Jehovah say rebel against Me.

So, for the cult part which there is negative, so non-cult is non-negative which it is all positive? Or fewer negative? It is about perspective so how you focus the negative to positive? When you focus negative too much you response negative.

Your parent didn't stop going to JW at that time, but you don't want to go so you baptized for attention of your mom. The point your mom can be willing to view positive about JW, but you didn't, so you view it as negative, so you didn't understand the positive of JW? You cry on your birthday, which you didn't understand so it is not explain to you or you didn't think what it means as not necessary or not, or whatever, or didn't get gift in another day? if you got gift in another day, so it would be wrong to focus on one day so follow other people.

The problem is follow other people's statement, and what they have, so it makes you sad, so people can be wrong, so you expand the wrong thing since people are not all knowingly, so you accept the right thing but it is really wrong, so best to accept base on follow from Jesus and from bible that what JW did, so you didn't understand the purpose of following the bible? So, you base on physical important so getting your mom's attention, but not bible's attention that is Jehovah's attention to feel positive base on bible, so you focus visual from your mom, so when it was not given, so the whole point is your mom, not JW.

So, you react negative to JW because you feel negative when younger so feel need to research to JW to see the negative base what you want to know. The point at beginning, you feel negative to JW? So, that is negative bias which expand the negative which you find the negative so you feel even more. Same as above about physical and emotional connect.

Khalif Foster on August 05, 2020:


Since you don't read the comment, well, hope ya read this, so you consider me abusers and don't respect the wishes and options. How is that I am arrogant??

So, if I make good point and logical, then it is not arrogant on my part, but humble on my part, since the arrogant ignore the point like King Egypt during Moses time, that the king saw God's destruction but refuse to allow Israel to go, so he ignore what He did, so I am not ignoring the logical part of what make sense in our conversation, even you are, so it is likely you are more arrogant than I am because you didn't focus the positive, but focus the negative, well, from King Egypt, He ignore the positive, so you ignore the positive of my comment which make sense.

So, I am responding to you, not because the author didn't response back. I response what the person did response. So, you response so I response to you, not because the author didn't response like I make you like an author. That would be illogical on my part to replace you like an author, but I am replying to you as actual person that response to me so I did in return.

As for control of people's thought which you are basing from WTS. The problem you are basing on assuming that it is controlling people's mind because of negative thing that they did so it is justify as controlling? What about mom that make decision for you so would you say mom is controlling your mind?

So, it is good to think in parallel in small to big and how it connect from parent and children to organization and congregation. The children will keep positive to parent, even the parent did negative thing, so did congregation which is negative like switching date, make up date, or not enough understanding in WT, etc, but looking at whole like to parent so the children consider positive to them because of physical bond, so that is conditional, so between GB and congregation, has no material conditional, but spiritual conditional that is between Jehovah to GB to congregation.

If Jehovah has patient with GB, like children has patient with parent even there is negativity from parent, so you can be patient with GB, but you don't, so you are not trying to look in positive way and be in positive, so you react negative.

Jehovah say in bible revenge is mine, so revenge is negative, for example of negative is destroying Noah's world, and other people, so in bible there is people that hurt other people, so they did war to other people in bible time, so it comes down that is Jehovah allow or not allowed base on statement what He say to you and thru bible.

So, base on bible, so it is allow to do negative on our part to leave, to get angry, etc, no because the negative part of our action is in past after Jesus' time then only Jesus as a live person did the negative by dying for the whole world, then our responsibility is to follow Jesus by before what he did before his death, he didn't response in negative, but positive.

So, that what JW do to response in positive and in faith that cause Jesus and other people do not do negative so that is why vote is wrong because it represents take over and make decision base on negative and positive, so not allow Jehovah or/and Jesus to make decision. That is connect to GB as appoint leader to make decision, like Moses is the leader so people do not ignore Moses, like Koran.

The problem you are not looking at bigger point of view, but take over as bigger point of view and decide yourself that it is wrong so you will not connect to them like Koran, so not being positive and patient, so it is about controlling in your emotion so you don't react negative, that show how good you are. The more good you are, the better you are, so that is why Jesus is perfect because Jesus' goodness exceed our good, same with Jehovah, so just be positive, but you can response negative in logical way base on bible like hurting, killing, etc, so you react no I will not kill. Ok, the negative part is not too negative as yelling, getting angry, but be firm which you are not being too negative, but in balance which reduce negative feeling in other, so the key point is balance emotion to show positive, so not give negative upper hand, so the positive is better than negative as I am sure it is accept parent that give positive to children, so not response negative to them.

So, positive breed positive as it is better for whole around. If any negative is need, then you can be firm and stand on ground, so not being too negative, or expand the negative so it overrides the positive thing so it becomes negative. It is about balance.

Antonio50S on August 05, 2020:

Hello Mandy again.

It's Your Hub, you can do as you please.

But just a little advice if you don't mind me saying ? Maybe your not aware what was happening ?

DON'T let people like that last commenter PREACH their 'Governing Bodies" on peoples Hubs like yourself.

Personally, I would be ASHAMED of myself Preaching a "Governing Body" on someone elses Hub who's been through your Experience.

The only reason he carried on posting on your Hub was because you never Responded back to anything he said, and felt it was OK to do what he was doing. That's what Abusers do.

As i said, there's a lot of JWs within their Organization who talk JUST LIKE HIM. They "Formulate" all these Ideas and "False Reasonings" in their heads, then start preaching them to others. In their Own minds they think it makes logical sense, but even with people with moderate Mental Health issues feel the same.

Only with people like the last commenter, they are filled with their Own ARROGANT, disrespectful Ego.

The more they sway people over to their ways of thinking, the more right they think they are, and the more POWER it gives them as well. In return they become Abusers, JUST like with the JW GB who knows it goes on as well. ( That's Creepy )

They don't care about people, they just want to Control Peoples thoughts, and did pick up a couple of times, that the last commenter wanted to get Abusive as well, but he was hiding it because he knew others would be reading it as well.

That's Creepy as well.

It's Your Hub Mandy. Only trying to help.

Antonio50S on August 04, 2020:

Hello Mandy.

( Really am Sorry to hear about your Husbands ill health, but do hope he get's better ) Tony.

About the Previous commentator, I DON'T read anything he say's now, but the one thing that is loud and clear in his comments is the fact that he "still sends them" despite ending the conversation with him.

There's a lot of JWs just like him in the Organization, Alway's trying to argue their point, Alway's trying to change your mind, and one thing i noticed with them, "They are the Abusive" types in their Organization" All that Rhetoric talk coming from them, Alway's trying to change your mind, really just desguises their Abusive personality.

If they cannot respect peoples WISHES and OPINIONS, they are the Abusers within their Organization.

( Sorry to hear about your husbands ill health, but hope he get's better )

Mandy Jones (author) from Hampshire, England. UK on August 03, 2020:

Sadly I have been too wrapped up in my life with my husband's ill health and work etc and then I find myself unable to log in despite getting notifications on my post!

Khalif you are so deceived! My goodness, WAKE UP!

READ the testimonies from people like myself!

The Watchtower and Tract Society is a CULT! My goodness, I worked that out from the library and researching from there, I did not have the Internet back then. Do you think, I could carry on my life with WATCHTOWER INDOCTRINATION without finding out the real truth??


That is what this man made religion is! WAKE UP & do some research

The Watchtower & Tract Society is a CULT

Mandy Jones (author) from Hampshire, England. UK on August 03, 2020:

Sadly I have been to wrapped up in my life with my husband's ill health and work etc and the I find myself unable to log in despite getting notifications on my post!

Khalif you are so deceived! My goodness, WAKE UP!

READ the testimonies from people like myself!

The Watchtower and Tract Society is a CULT! My goodness, I worked that out from the library and researching from there, I did not have the Internet back then. Do you think, I could carry on my life with WATCHTOWER INDOCTRINATION without finding out the real truth??


That is what this man made religion is! WAKE UP & do some research

The Watchtower & Tract Society is a CULT

Khalif Foster on August 03, 2020:

The issues are not in my mind, since it is base on a logical process that makes sense base on what is limit on ourselves and what is unlimited on Jehovah, so with that limit, you need to be patient and be positive, with the error going on, as long as the error is not too big that is against the bible which is clear that is killing, hurting, and voting, etc, but any that is not in the bible, can still be in organization, even there is negative like False date you use, but it is a mistake.

So, you have issues that are not willing to see the positive, but seeing the negative, think about it that Jehovah sees JW as positive, He doesn't consider them negative, so I am sure you don't see Jehovah as negative? So, what is your view of positive and what should Jehovah's view of positive to you? So, you are making a decision by not following Jehovah's way which follows the leader like Moses is the leader, so he has people follow him.

It is not just miracles thru Moses, but also people that are willing to obey Moses, which Korah didn't. So, you don't see the parallel and accept it. So, you reject base on Moses didn't give false prophecies so they are wrong and Moses has God's Prophecies, so the problem is it is not in bible so you can't contradict Moses, but you can contradict the GW, even both is same, but you contradict base it is not in the bible, so it is not fair.

So, you are not looking positive, but looking negative base it is not in bible, so you take advantages because it is not in bible, so if it was, you will accept it, but bible can't continue all the way until the end of humans' negativity in the world. But thru the bible, you need faith and keep positive, even there is negative like mistakes in date, and non-understanding in info from bible, as long as it does not contradict from the bible as a whole and not contradict the bible which is yourself that react in negative to a situation like Korah react negatively which he could react positive, but didn't.

What is true religion to you?? So, you only believe in bible and you, so no organization, so Moses with other people is not needed after Jesus? Which organization that forms like at Moses' time.

The problem you are looking negative, like Korah, did look at the negative, so of course, if in bible time, you would react like Korah, so don't assume because it is in the bible, you will react positive to Jehovah, so JW is not in the truth, so what is truth to you from Jehovah's point of view? Since you rely on yourself as an answer for what is true, but not from the bible that is true, if you did from bible, but you are being selective like dates, etc, so not looking at a bigger scale, so those dates are only negative as a mistake, not on purpose to fool people, so you have to separate which negative, if it is on purpose or a mistake since that mistake is base want to keep positive to those people by being under the One, not under themselves as you imagine them to be like GB is a God.

Summary: the problem you expand the negative which is not needed as it is not in bible so you add yourself so this is negative, without seeing it is positive and not looking the negative from the bible, so you don't follow the bible which bible says don't kill, don't vote, etc, so GB didn't contradict the bible base on teaching and provide teaching to other people. Well, the bigger negative is easy that is don't vote, don't kill, so they didn't do because people will feel negative base on killing and for voting it is logical base to vote then the person will be a leader like in bible from people that want a king here on earth so Jehovah allowed the King like Saul.

So, all info that is negative and positive that is from bible, so you follow and you don't follow, so that what GB did. There is nothing in the bible that will contradict GB and contradict an organization that is allowed.

So, you consider the organization wrong, just you and the bible? Then Jehovah will confuse the people as to where they will go and they will add themselves idea what is right and wrong so they follow themselves since it is just the bible and each person. So, the bible out logical you.

GB is the organization. It would be good to read the whole post, before this one so you can see what I type so you can answer back accurate since it is the truth, so you believe in truth then see whole what I wrote and then counter-back if it is the truth then I am wrong. Since truth can't contradict or reduce unless you allowed yourself to reduce it.

Antonio50S on August 03, 2020:

Khalif. P.S.

No disrespect intended, "but i NEVER even read your last post" You Obviously have issues going on in your mind, but you really do need to find your own way, and answers to life.

I did notice that word Korah again.

You cannot compare the "Governing Body" of Jehovah's Witnesses to MOSES. ( NO WAY )

Moses performed so many Miracles through the Power of God, and to let others know God was using him, and Korah Should have known that, While On the other hand, Jehovah's Witnesses have a HISTORY of FALSE PROPHECIES. ( It speaks for itself )

YET despite all of Moses miracles, God REPROVED Moses in a big way. He stopped him from seeing the Promised Land, and as a result, he died out there with so many other Israelites ( Because he tried to take credit, that the power was coming from him )

In a way, that's whst the Governing Body are doing, TRYING to take the Credit. Only the Governing Body have done NOTHING to take credit for.

They are NOT listed in ( Hebrews 11 ) as men and women of faith, Why ? Because the bible was already written and completed, Yet one thing we knew for sure, False Prophets and False Christ were to appear down through the ages, as Jesus warned to mislead people.

The only reason the JW Governing Body keep talking about Korah, is because the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are making themselves Equal to MOSES, when in reality all they have is a history of Failed Prophecies, Unlike God's Prophecies via MOSES which ALL ( CAME TRUE )

Conversation is over Khalif.

Antonio50S on August 02, 2020:


If your happy following the Governing Body, that's your business. I don't need to answer your Questions. ( "FIND YOUR OWN ANSWERS Khalif" )

Regarding KORAH, nobody else uses that example of rebellion except for the JW "Governing Body" to support themselves. Sorry Khalif. Not even worth discussing.

Khalif Foster on August 01, 2020:

So, the around we go, is still an around we go, so base on bible and Jesus that you use with same answer because the answer is same, but my explanation to the answer is different so you can understand that answer.

Same answer but expand explanation so the whole point is two post is Governing Body and Jesus is not same, well, base on foundation point of Korah that is contradict to Moses, so you are same as Korah, so you didn't talk about Korah, so, your answer and my answer will be same as most foundation point that is Korah that is against Moses, and you say Jesus and GB is different, but when you say different then you are being the follow of Korah.

For pointing the finger of what is wrong that may be true. But let look at bigger perspective, then what is true organization if GB is not true organization? And ya haven't mention about depending and independent thinking process which I put in post below but you didn't include it for new post. So, you are not out-logical me since you hidden or forgot, if you want to out-logical me then include all that will contradict me. You use the bible which it is logical but the problem bible and logical must be equal, not off the point.

So, as for pointing finger as resist them as not a follow to them like if the parent is wrong, then I would stop talking to parent? That would be wrong because you are looking small, and not big that is parent as a whole that create you, compare to other people that is not, so it is special, for GB that guide you to Jehovah, that is special, other religion is not.

So, how you would be guide to Jehovah? That is bigger perspective so I did out-logical you, so you focus small thing the negative so you resist that negative as wrong so you are not follow of them.

Of course, you would say other religion as you say pointing the finger so I didn't stay with them so I left them like you have a feeling to leave JW or so, but the problem in those negative, how ya know when you leave or not?? Well, it is simple, the negative part must hurt other people base on teaching and active action that hurt other people that contradict teaching. For ex: going to war, to vote to other people. So, going to war hurt people so it is negative, and for voting other person is negative so you focus the person as leader, instead of Jehovah, that is negative as a whole like Korah want to be leader, instead of Moses is leader which Moses is not true leader, but Moses allow Jehovah to be leader, so Moses is sub-leader. So, is GB.

Any teaching that is negative is not true; so any teaching that is positive is truth which base on voting to man or to hurt other people.

There is a thin line between false or mistake which you use false which means they use adjust view, so adjust view or anything can be count as mistake because it is not on purpose. So, false means on purpose which false base on bible that is to hurt, to ignore and make a decision, so not follow the bible so that is false, so to take over as leader like Korah want to take over without external decision for Korah to become leader. Moses didn't become leader himself, Jehovah appoint Moses to be leader. So, everything is about humble that is under the one for all things.

So, Jehovah appoint 144,000 men to be leader in heaven, not true leader, but sub-leader so David is sub-leader, so is Jesus. So, 144,000 kings in heaven, so they are sub-leader, so not true leader. So, no one is most-top, only Jehovah is.

So, as for hurting part, so you are applying the hurting from ' Australian Royal Commission', so the problem are you basing the hurting from them, so you expand the negative to other stuff? The problem you can expand the negative, so not focus the negative to certain person, but expand to everything, and in connect to that everything, so you include other negative with everything so everything is wrong. So, be careful so not be like Korah, so he probably or likely expand the negative that is one negative, lead to second negative, but second negative is not true but in mind, but first negative is true.

Best be positive in everything, not think negative and do negative since you are not the judge, so Jehovah will do the negative as He is the judge which is perfect that is under Him is all things that He can do, and apart and under Him is not all things that they can do which it is limit in power, thinking, etc, so the action that they can do is limit, so that is logical. 1, 2, 3, and so on, not take over as number 1, that is arrogant, like Satan, Korah, etc. So, you are not taking over as ignoring the bible, but use the bible that is good.

But the problem, you ignore part of bible so take over from bible and follow the bible at same time which cancel out so it causes negative in person's hurt, not be positive in person at all time. Or misleading teaching from bible which you might believe which I dunno like trinity, etc?? So, the point follow fully from bible and act fully from bible that is logical like 1, 2, 3, so you act fully under Jehovah, so be positive in all things, not be negative.

That is full logical as it is smooth. So, it is not just follow the bible, but follow the person that follow the bible fully. When you don't follow the bible fully, so you focus the person that is negative so you expand the negative, so not keep positive base on that person like Satan, so you don't think Satan, and what he will do to me?? So, I don't see Satan, and you don't, so why worry, well, it is same with Jehovah, why worry? Well, for positive it is good to worry so do positive so you don't worry, as for negative, the positive from Jehovah is higher than negative so don't worry.

So, it is easy to be visual negative like you don't have a job or anything, so you might react negative. The point what is easy is negative than positive, so any negative that happen, so hold the positive within, and ignore the negative of other person and they will reduce themselves in negativizes. But you will expand yourself in positivizes. So, that is logical base on parallel level in expansive or narrowness.

The more positive you are, the more positive you will go to higher level; the more negative you are, the more negative you will go to lower level. That is different from other religion so they are not under Jehovah but JW are, so they are positive, so you twist it and say negative to them. The GB that is.

Hope this time ya will all things and try to out-logical me, so not limit yourself, but give everything you can and contradict everything what I type above if you can. Because it is truth, so you can't contradict the truth, so you can't contradict the bible, unless you hid yourself by not giving all answer so you can't contradict me so limit yourself or make me assume you forgot to give all answer above but didn't.

The whole point is peace with people which positive is need for peace, so no negative, so you provide the negative so you are not providing peace to JW, so think they are wrong. Well, I am not providing peace for thinking other religion is wrong so it is all about true peace that is from bible, which there is no negative at all that is voting or wars. For war part, the negative part is active to hurt other people; for voting part, to give a person so they are leader as to make decision but will cause problem as peace will be reduce so negative will come up like you lost a job or lost relationship with girlfriend or anything, so negative will come up because lost is negative so your heart will get negative aftereffect from the source that you lost.

Anger, yelling, etc, which is an aftereffect negative that is negative even, not positive even. GB provide aftereffect positive which is full under Jehovah. You can't be bible and you alone, that is illogical as you will not give positive to other, but will give negative since your bible and their bible is different so it will clashes in ideas and in action which provide the negative to happen, so dependent is important so all is one.

That is true truth and integrity. So, you didn't out logical me because you didn't show what you can give me that is integrity and truth as whole?

Antonio50S on July 26, 2020:


If you really want to know what "Truth" and "Integrity" is, put that "New World Translation" to one side, and study the "TEACHINGS of JESUS" Maybe from the NIV or NLT bible. Because the NWT Obscures to many pasages.

You maybe surprised that what Jesus and the Governing Body teaches are "NOT THE SAME"

Once you see that, the truth will start to become clearer as well.

Antonio50S on July 26, 2020:


Going back on myself now, but the reason it's a repeat answer is because the answer is the same.

Sometimes we have difficulty hearing and accepting certain truths, but if it was any other Religion guilty of them same MISTAKES "As you call them" Khalif ( You would soon be Pointing the Finger )

Stop fooling yourself Khalif.

There's a difference between ( "Mistakes" and "False Prophecies" ) Example of a Mistake, Is mistaking one person for another. But NOT going againts the VERY teachings Jesus warned about in the first place, decade after decade. In this case, even the Second Generation.

That False Prophecy from Russell has been going on for around 150 Years now, each time changing and adapting it "Under the pretense" of "New Light" from Jehovah.

Bottom line, Even though they adjusted some of ( THEIR ) views in the ( July 2013 Watchtower ), they are STILL claiming to be that "Faithful Slave" ( Mathew 24:45 ) They are STILL "Claiming to be Appointed" as that Servant.

Making a statement like that is the same as saying Jesus has Already "Come Back" which is what Jesus warned about, and that is Important to know, because any Religious Institution that teaches their Members that, and that "God is now using them" can also ABUSE their Members as well.

Not Fighting in Wars ? That's hardly something to boast about considering the way the Jehovah's Witnesses treat their OWN members.

The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are just MEN abusing their power in the name of Religion. The ( Australian Royal Commission ) Found that out. ( Psalms 146:3-4 )

I think the Word "Cognitive dissonance" was also mentioned to you Khalif ? Look it up, because that's what the GB are guilty of.

About trying to Out-Logic you Khalif ? I don't need to, i just stick to what Jesus and the bible teaches, therefore don't need to Follow the Governing Body or anyone else Talking in Rhetoric.

Khalif Foster on July 23, 2020:

Ok, not fully and it is a repeat answer base on false date which I did before you answer, so you repeat above, so you didn't counter-back that is a mistake, ok, perhaps ya did because that mistake hurt people.

So, Charles take responsibility for those dates, but those responsibilities cause hurt or not, so what is the definition of false to you?? It is not just false that is enough, it needs result base on false. So, for voting, for making people go to war?? Those can be false, not just a mistake because it will lead to result that hurt people like war to other people and to yourself by guilt or by wanting to keep integrity, but was damage by war. All integrity is different that is your primary as start is not to hurt people, which I am sure almost all or all have it, so that non-hurting people can be damage by hurting others.

So, war can be easily obvious as integrity damage, but for voting for person is not obvious but long term, or subtitle attack when you became aware. So, you can't be sure the leader of one part of human that is American has same integrity as you so not to hurt people or anything, so, not all integrity is same, so it varies, so it is important to have one integrity that is Jehovah as Primary Integrity.

So, Charles don't want to hurt people but to follow the primary Integrity, so it was a mistake, not an attack to other people. You have to know the different of result by mistake, by false?

So, other religious has misleading integrity that they assume as right but will get damage by aware or by resist and accept the bad, so it changes subtle.

The all point is religion is equal to Jehovah's Integrity to manage all the positive connect between people & and each other and Jehovah?

Ya didn't counter-back base the good point below, so instead you wrote 'I already some of the Questions..', so if you already answer, then I already know your answer base what I read before since you say originally, so I response to those questions but you reply back, you already answer, so it is a repeat, so not a counter-feedback. Each answer below is different that is mine, but yours is different but this one you wrote 'already answer', so not make a different answer as a repeat.

Antonio50S on July 23, 2020:


I already answered some of the Questions you Originally asked.

Hope some of it was helpful, and thank you for the conversation.

Peace to you.

Khalif Foster on July 22, 2020:

Ok, let think about it logically, so you are saying since long in past until Jesus, there is need of organization, until after Jesus then no need, then how we are save? Ya think we can be fine alone? Then why organization is necessary and Jehovah know logically one group is necessary since one idea, one decision, like Moses with a group until the one Korah rebel. So, one group, one decision, one God, make sense?

So, ya think Jehovah is not smart and don't know what to do? He knows in past to now. So, you are saying Jehovah don't pick GB because it is not in bible, so they pick themselves to make decision what bible say, so they are assuming like in other religion, they are truth like trinity, and others, but it is important as in past before Jesus, Jehovah pick a person so the person lead them. So, that is how you know you are connect to Jehovah, a bible is not enough.

Same as being good without bible is not enough. So, need bible, alive book and Jehovah, alive person. Without those two, then you are dead religion, not alive. Then you will be really dead, not alive in future so it fits well what is perfect that is parallel to one, which one is perfect, same thinking process.

Which ya say has no independent think process but independent a problem, don't ya think? Why we have bible so we depend on bible. Otherwise you would be like Atheist as not needing God.

One represent dependent to one, that is under, so all under the One.

As for Raymond Victor Franz, he was feeling negative about GB and teaching, so not accepting them, so when he was free, the information within got free to gain upper head and spread out, so he holds the negative, so he expresses the negative, well, not that GB is bad or anything, he was GB, but has little negative feeling about it, so not seeing the positive, like you say for not read the bible.

So, if a person not read the bible one day or few times a day, so he probably react negative not read the bible base on amount of time in his view that is should be positive which they did read the bible one a day so he reacts negative, not positive because he didn't accept and give positive.

Well, you can feel negative, but give positive, that doesn't means someone that hurt me and I give positive to person, so I don't give negative to person to repel or saying stop or anything and keep allow them to hurt me, so it is not like that, so I doubt GB hurt him, but the problem he didn't give positive base on non-negative that he was given in return, so if something negative happen to you so you can react negative as a protection. That is not bad, it is a protection which is a positive.

So, I doubt GB is bad people and didn't provide bad info, they want to do good by bible. The problem is trust that he doesn't have for them. Trust that he can give important positive which is a benefit and other negative that is small which is not damaging to them, so if it is small then Jehovah will remove the small negative in his time.

It is about keeping positive at all time, that is good and willing to love people and GB.

So, can you out-logical me?

Antonio50S on July 22, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

What I was trying to explain is that the "Governing Body" or JWs is "NOT SPIRIT LED" in the way they Claim, but rather a Group of "Fallible Men" reaching decisions on their own.

That's one of the things ( Raymond Victor Franze ) "GB member" explained. Most of the times the GB wouldn't even refer to the Bible for guidance, but then if they thought Jesus already came back as they did for years, they wouldn't anyway.

Then the ( July 2013 Study Edition of the Watchtower ) Changed Jesus COMING to a FUTURE coming which is to happen during the "Great Tribulation"

There's NO evidence that the Governing Body or JW Organization is Spirit Led, or that it ever was.

Instead they make comments like "In the past we stated" Or Previously "We Thought" ( And now they STATE, when Jesus Arrives in future, he will appoint them as the Servant )

Regarding ( Raymond Victor Franze ) You don't become a Remnant, or one of the Annoited Just because you have Blood family that's part of the Remnants.

It's God down through the ages that does the Choosing. NOT the GB members choosing themselves and each other.

Regarding the Spirit Bearing Witness that we are Children of God in ( Romans 8 ) I really don't see any verses in that chapter to Imply it's referring to the Annoited as the GB say.

Antonio50S on July 22, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

( About the Governing Body )

( The Watchtower Study Edition. July 2013 ) "Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?"

Due to the "Generation" teaching From 1914. They HAD to change 3 of their teachings to a FUTURE DATE.

In them they said, In the past, Or Previously ( "WE THOUGHT" )

( 1 ) The Great Tribulation began in 1914.

( 2 ) The Judging of the sheep and goats, apparently began in "last days" 1914-1919.

( 3 ) The "Faithful Servant" ( Matthew 24:45 )

They have now Changed ALL 3 of them, INCLUDING the "Faithful Servant" to a FUTURE DATE when Jesus ARRIVES during the Great Tribulation.

If they Changed the "Faithful Servant" to a "Future Date" as well "when Jesus Arrives" then they are NOT that Servant now who they claim to be.

Any Christian denomination can claim to be doing the work of a Servant, but NONE of them can claim to be appointed by Jesus until that arrival, Yet the Governing Body "Still ClAIMS to be that Servant" as if appointed, Despite so many Failed Prophecies.

If God wants to, he can use anybody, but I don't believe in the claims of the GB just because "they say so" Jesus already gave warning signs.

Antonio50S on July 22, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

Look up the definition of FALSE in dictionaries, and you may see that Russell's Prophecies were False, REGARDLESS of whether he believed them to be true or not. But either way, them Prophecies did DECEIVE People. Jesus said, "Watch out that no-one Deceives you" ( Matthew 24:4 )

Going by the definition of False, False Prophecies, Or a "False Prophet" That's EXACTLY what Russell did.

I actually think Russell had a lot of good things about him, Just like there are many Nice and Sincere JWs, but Russell was deceiving himself, and others followed him in that Deception, which "Makes him Responsible"

( Deuteronomy 18:22 ) Whether a Person Speaks in the name of Jehovah, Or by any other means, ( If that Prophecy fails to come true ) that Still makes them a "False Prophet" based on the Prophecies they gave.

( The Reason why it's so Important to be aware of False Prophecies and False Prophet's is because they lead others to follow PEOPLE instead of following Jesus and his teachings )

Regarding the "Governing Body" being a Medium or Mediator ? That's Totally UNTRUE, ( WRONG ) That's FALSE as well.

We can have Leader's and Elder's as Examples to Follow, But no "Governing Body" is a Mediator between us and Jesus, or Jehovah.

When Paul said the "Jerusalem Council" Or "Governing Body" added NOTHING to my message, he was right. They added absolutely ( NOTHING ) to the Gospel message Paul was preaching about Jesus. ( Galatians 2:6 )

Khalif. I'm NOT Judging the JWs at all, they are human beings just like all of us, but "Only God" can look into the hearts of each person and see which way their hearts are Inclined, but in the end, each person is going to be responsible between himself and God. ( NOT the Governing Body ) as they claim.

That applies if you're a JW, or a Follower of Jesus, but the Governing Body is DEFINITELY NOT a Mediator.

( 1 Timothy 2:5 ) "One Mediator" Jesus.

( Verse 4 ) God wants all people to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Which "Include" Kings and all those in Authority. People the "Governing Body" DON'T INCLUDE.

Antonio50S on July 20, 2020:

OK Khalif.

Read what you said.

Give me a while. Will get back to you.

Khalif Foster on July 19, 2020:

Antonio50 S

Ok, for the False Dates, it is like implying base on that word that they are fake to fool people, so not simple wrong, so they do not give false date but mistake dates base on bible, not from their mind to fool people, so it is not false, but mistake. So, you might it sounds evil and wrong, well, base on the term false. So, it is just mistake that is all, but if not using the bible, but use their mind to use the date as accurate, then it is false without proof and certain that they want to fool them or they, the person that create date, believe it as true like the information is accurate, but the result to that info is not accurate, so it doesn't mean it is false.

So, any info that is true, and other info that is false, so opposite of true is not false, but can be a mistake. There is no opposite to true, so it can go either way by false or fake / mistake. Like False is a negative term so not base on number itself, but base on person that fool people, the person doesn't fool people but want to help them.

So, for thru Jesus by Jehovah, so you accept Jesus from Jehovah, but not accept GB to us? It is not fair since GB is thru from Jesus to us, so GB is medium, like Jesus is a medium to Jehovah. So, as for Paul did preach not from council, but from Jesus, both work well, if directly from Jesus or from council, it is fine since they are higher source than Paul. So, Paul do depend on Council, so not from himself alone with only scroll or bible, but connect to a group. That is why Council is there so it means a group is important so GB is a group.

So, now we are far away from that time so we don't need a group, just bible and myself? There are people here, so it is logical to connect those people as a group. The group that take lead is GB, same as Jesus is a leader to other people, so they were not alone, not need Jesus.

As for question part base on above and confirmation bias, so you are not allowed to questions, so you can questions as long as you don't question too much that is to consider them wrong and they are right, like Korah question Moses's rule so they rebel, so Korah's question too much, not in balance. To be accurate, it is best to say, you can question but to must accept as right as your questions to yourself, so that is resist to rule, so you can question, but not resist's the leader if questions is not to your satisfy, so you accept your answer base on your questions so you leave or something because it is not satisfy to you, so that is a contradict to rule of GB, and create a system that is two, not one, GB to whole people.

For any info from bible is not confirmation bias so all info is from bible so it can be accurate since it is not mixed with other human so it becomes confirmation bias, so the bible and the reality to match, so, for 1914 which is connect to 607, so it mixed with other person, so not all prophecy is directly from bible, but can mixed with other information to make it like dates, and other, so it can be wrong, but it is a mistake so the bigger part which directly from bible is right like blood, GB, and others.

A mistake or wrong don't equal the whole thing wrong, that is overdoing it. When you say false date and false prophecy, you make it sound that they want to fool us so they are false religion, so the key word false, then what is truth to you?

Ok, so the truth to you is not follow the religion, so you are alone with bible that is all. But there is people so it is illogical to reject them as you don't need them just the bible that means it is a contradict to bible that bible is for all people, therefore it is good to be with people so bible and people are in parallel, not in oppose. So, you can't follow Jesus alone, not even with bible because it is just a book, not a person, so the bible has group in past that is Moses, and Korah that repel against Moses, it is same as now. Not willing to think or feel positive about JW, but you think negativity about them, so what is negative about them?

If anything that is negative, them they are right, of course, it can be misleading, but voting to person is not negative since vote to make people a lead is a benefit, but it is negative as a whole, so it is not just negative short term but infinity term. And the purpose of bible and Jehovah connect with us is to make us happy, we can't be happy without Jehovah, not for infinity since our happiness without Jehovah will go down unaware that our happiness from past to now went down and we are unaware, like gay to lesbian, people against Lesbian and gay in 1950, perhaps, then those same people accept gay and lesbian, so they are still happy as not response negative to gay and lesbian now but the happiness change because gay and lesbian will not give you infinity happiness compare to man and woman.

I am using logical thinking, not condition thinking from them. so my logical control me, so the bible is logical, so they are using logical base on bible, since Bible is all honest since it is from Jehovah. So, those people that love fully will do what is right, like Jesus did what is right to Jehovah in past, so do GB.

So, you don't believe Jehovah use them, then what Jehovah uses? The reason you don't think Jehovah uses GB as a leader because of false prophecy, false dates? But it is a mistake so that doesn't means Jehovah doesn't use them that would mean Jehovah is over-sensitive because of negative thing that they did but not the primary negative which is to completely lie to Jehovah and fool people like Baʹlaam which he knows God but fool people, so that what ya saying they fool people, even they know Jehovah which their action as you say false date, false prohecy, that is GB is fooling Jehovah, well, Jehovah's people as a lie to them?

Summary: So, you are basing the whole as false which means they are fooling so they are lying which your justify the scripture, '1 John 4', but don't you think that apply to you. So, the question how ya know what is false or not?

The best way to know what is false or not, that there is no negative, or seemingly positive, but negative eventually like voting since it is base on human, not base on God, which illogical doesn't justify the bible to human, so either the bible or accept humans' government. Humans' government is a natural process of expand, so God has a government that expand, a natural process of 1 to many as a whole that is one.

Antonio50S on July 19, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

One of my biggest reasons for Rejecting the JWs "Governing Bodies" Claim to be used by God is not only all the FALSE dates Russell gave for Jesus return, but also because the GB is EQUATING themselves as the First Century "Governing Body" or "Jerusalem Council" of ( Acts 15 )

That Council WASN'T there to direct the affairs of the Early Gentile Church.

Read these verses a few times Khalif ( Galatians 2:6-10 ) "REFERRING to that GB or Jerusalem Council"

Vs 6 PAUL "Those Men added NOTHING to MY message"

Vs 7 ( The Council seen that Paul was entrusted to preach to the Gentiles, as Peter was to the Jews in "Acts 15" )

Vs 8 ( For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter to the JEWS, was ALSO at work in PAULS ministry to the GENTILES ) the Council was NOT involved in Pauls Message to the Gentiles, Other than give that "decree" which added weight to Pauls message that the Gentiles WERE NOT Required to Keep the Old Testament Laws any Longer. That's why the Gentiles continued to Grow. NOT because they abstained from blood.

Vs 9 James, Peter, and John. "Recognised" the Job of preaching to the Gentiles was given to Paul by GOD through JESUS, NOT by the Council Or GB.

Verse 6 is really interesting Khalif. Referring to that Council or GB. "Whatever they were makes NO DIFFERENCE to me; God does not judge by EXTERNAL APPEARANCE" ( Or STATUS THEY HOLD ) because they added NOTHING to Pauls message.

In the Older "New World Translation" it says whatever they ( FORMERLY ) were. That can give the idea, whatever Past Sins the GB Committed. But PAUL is really saying, Whatever POSITION they Hold, makes no difference to me.


Antonio50S on July 17, 2020:


About ( Confirmation Bias )

If it wasn't for "Confirmation Bias" to begin with, ( Charles Taze Russell ) would not have speculated on dates for Jesus Return. Russell directly went against Jesus teachings that nobody Knows the day or hour of his return.

Moving forward into the future, the GB don't highlight Russells failed Prophecies, but now they just hold into the "Gentile Times" ending in 1914, and alter the meaning of words like ( Kairos ) to support their ( OWN ) view that Jesus still came back in 1914, and Apparently found "Charles Taze Russell" Faithfully doing the work of God, when in reality he was setting out dates for Jesus Return. Sorry Khalif, that don't sound Faithful to me. It sounds more like ( Confirmation Bias )

Not accepting the GB being used by God is not "Confirmation Bias" Especially when Jesus warned of False Christ and False Prophets coming in VARIOUS forms. ( 1 John 4 ) "Test the Spirits" Due to False Prophets. Something JWs are NOT allowed to do, or Question.

Antonio50S on July 17, 2020:

Sorry. I never explained the 607 BC date properly.

Babylon was TOTALLY Destroyed in the Year ( 539 BC ) By Cyrus the Great.

That means Jerusalem was destroyed 70 Years Prior to that in ( 609 BC ) "NOT" 607.

Fulfilling a 70 Year time Gap between the destruction of Jerusalem in ( 609 BC ) and the destruction of Babylon which happened 70 Years later in ( 539 BC ) ( Jeremiah 25 )

Cyrus may well have given the decree for the Israelites to return to their homeland in the year ( 537 BC ) But you DON'T count back from ( 537 BC ) and Arrive at ( 607 ) Just to support the GBs own claim that God is now using them from 1914, being the APPARENT end of the "Gentile Times" Period. ( "Gentile Times" Greek "Kairos" ) ( Luke 21:24 )

"Gentile Times" Referring to a definite Start & End Period begining in ( 607 BC ) as the Governing Body say, is a Wrong Teaching, which leads False Prophecies. Greek word "Kairos" in ( Luke 21:24 ) just means a "Period" of time. The Right or OPPORTUNE moment. But to translate that word to mean a definite "Start and End" Period, when it don't mean that, they're actually Making a False Prophecy.

Antonio50S on July 17, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

Just read your comment.

I did say that i don't engage with Jehovah's Witnesses anymore, but I'm not sure what your own position on the Governing Body is ?

Reason i say that, if you yourself followed everything the GB said, you wouldn't even be communicating with me, because they tell all their members not to engage with others on these Forums. So you're not really following them yourself are you ? And in case you're thinking you're being a loyal supporter by going it alone ? I will tell you this Khalif, they DON'T CARE about you ether way.

Truth about me ? Just because i used or use the name Jehovah, Don't mean I'm associating it with Jehovah's Witnesses or their Governing Body. ( Acts 15 ) "Called by my name" ? Don't take that literal either, because the first Century Christians "WERE NOT" called Jehovah's Witnesses. "They were first called Christians in Antioch" ( Acts 11:26 )

( Acts 15 ) "Called by my name" was already fulfilled back in the First Century Church, or "House Churches"

Primary Reason for being against GB ? ( There's LOTS of Reasons ) but I'm NOT against the GB. I just DON'T believe THEIR claims that God is using them. Being a "Superefficient" Religious Organization don't mean they're being used by God anymore than any other Superefficient Manufacturing Company.

You can sell most things if you market it properly, but No religious organization will give you life. Not Fighting in Wars or Smoking ? Other faith groups don't do that either.

Khalif, Your thinking is ALL wrong. It's ALL conditioned thinking coming from the GB themselves. FORGET about about the BLOOD issue. The real issue is the Governing Bodies claim to be used by God, Using "False Dates" like 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times.

Prior to 1914, Russell made outright FALSE PROPHECIES in relation to 1914, then when his prophecies never came true, they Changed it in their publications by saying "we were right about the End of the Gentite Times" being 1914, but the truth is, they were WRONG about that as well, because there's NO biblical Chronology to support any date, be it Month, Season, or Year.

Babylon was Destroyed in the year ( 539 BC ) to the exact year, as Predicted by GOD. "NOT 607 BC as the GBs claim" but the reason they claim that is to try and support themselves as being that Faithful Servant in ( Matthew 24:45 )

Sorry Khalif. But the whole JW Organization was built, and is STILL Centred on them FALSE dates.

GB and JWs can claim Something happened in 1914. But then, that's exactly what Jesus warned about in the First Place. "False Christ and False Prophets". ( Their claims are PART of Jesus Warnings, NOT proof they're being used by God ) GB don't highlight their past False Prophecies, but they will use anything to support themselves, and keep people trapped in a System that Won't and CANNOT give you life. Plus most Religious Institutions have some form of Rulership, but most of them DON'T claim you have to be with them for Salvation. "That's the Difference" Khalif.

There's no point getting out of Babylon just to be Psychologically Trapped by a Superefficient Religious Organization who ABUSES their Members.

I know the feeling about being a part of a Big Organization, but you can get the same feeling being a follower of Jesus, and by making the faith personal to yourself "Independence from the GB"

There's no Perfect Religion out there, but will go along with what ( Rich Mullings ) said. "It's not where we go, it's who we follow"

There's not just one Primary Reason, there's LOTS of them Khalif.

Khalif Foster on June 10, 2020:

Ok, then what is the truth to you?? After all, in bible says, 'Peter' says where we go you are the only one that is truth. And the negative part that Jesus says before Peter say where we go that is Jesus say drink my blood and eat my flash, so Jewish reacts negative, so they jump to consultion, so what about you? You jump to conclusion and say GB is not the truth like Korah jump to conclusion that Moses is terrible. So, I guess you left JW, not as JW, but KH, so either you were JW or went to KH, so the problem Raymond which you have response that is person or another person?

So, either way, you say he did nothing wrong, really, then you know his thinking process and his response to it?? It is all positive and they, the elder, kick him out. Well, if either Raymond or Elder that cause problem, it doesn't justify GB to be wrong as a whole because it is person's fault that is Ray and Elder that kick him out for no reason which you say nothing wrong. Well, the problem you blame in a big way to GB, not specific one person.

Like in compare, a mother that has two children and the child cause problem to another child, so the child blame the mother because of problem that he receives from that siblings, so it is mother's fault so she is justify to negative that is equal to person doing the negative to siblings? It is not fair and not justify the blame because it is wrong person, not right person. Same principle with GB as a mother.

Thru Jesus you can be save but the problem how you are save if there is no Jesus, Jesus is not here, so it has to be under Jesus that is mortal men, so the mortal men can be trust like David, the kind; Moses, those are mortal men so they save them so it is seemingly contradict to bible that mortal men can't save, so it is not because all those people is under Jehovah, including Jesus.

What is your reason for against GB? Your primary reason, not secondary to justify the primary like blood because you already have confirmation bias, so when you know about blood so it increases the negative unlike if you were positive so you will not response negative because your positive is higher than negative, so it is about confirmation bias which either primary of your emotion that is negative or positive.

Antonio50S on June 07, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

*Governing Body* ( Beware of Independent thinking )

*Bible* ( Psalm 146:3 ) "DO NOT put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who CANNOT save"

But saying that. There used to be one GB member who i have so much respect for, but they disfellowshipped him. He was either doing something Right or something wrong to be disfellowshipped. But i can tell you Khalif, he did NOTHING wrong.

*Raymond Victor Franz* He wrote the book "Crisis of Conscience" Ray was an OK guy.

Khalif. I made a decision some time ago. I wasn't going to engage with JWs any longer. I know what the Truth is, and it's NOT about Ticking JW Organizational boxes as JWs think. ( WHAT A RELIEF ) Quote. Jesus. "My Sheep HEAR my voice; I know them, and they follow me"

I will answer some of them Questions later on. "But NOT to you directly" as i don't engage or get into conversations with JWs any longer.


Khalif Foster on June 06, 2020:

Ok, you say 'beware of independent thinking', which you counter-back you think for yourself, so you contradict yourself that you will accept if Jehovah tells you, so you are not thinking for yourself, you allow Jehovah to tell you. So, you partially support GB which you willing not think for yourself but think for Jehovah. That what JW do, they think for GB.

Khalif Foster on June 06, 2020:

Ok, so what is the main reason for your against to GB? You say, 'TRAPPED Psychologically', fine but those are secondary but what is the primary? That is you're in different religion or something? You did say because of Psychologically damage that means any church that has that or any person that has that you will be against, so you are bias to negative. Fine, so I assume you are not against Jehovah because He doesn't do psychologically damage to people? Well, what about allow of death, and other stuff, that is bad? So, logically you would be bias against to Jehovah and to GB, so you would be atheist base on that.

But you are not, are ya? So, even knowing God allow bad to happen, and GB allow bad to happen like not use blood, make them feeling psychologically trap.

So, I mention about Korah that he was against to Moses because he was feeling negative to Moses, so you are feeling negative to GB. So, you support God, so you are not against God, are ya? Even God did kill Korah that feel negative to Moses.

The problem to justify what is wrong is actual negative that Elder cause and the teaching of process which lead to negative like voting, going to war, etc. So, did GB tells the Elder to abuse the people and tell them to do bad things?? No they don't, they want to help people which they do by following the Bible. The point they want to help unlike other religion that they help themselves in assuming that it is all positive but they are limit so they vote, etc, which means the leader will be human that will cause problem like going to war. So, it is not connect to God, the Good for all time. Not limit time.

The problem you and other people, and the people that affect you jump to conclusion that it is GB's fault that means they are not in truth, so they want to hurt people, so they expand the negative which find other negative within so expand it because they are already confirmation bias: which it is one part that is look for negative.

Jehovah do not look for negative, so you can do the same not look for negative. Well, I am sure Jehovah will look at other religion that is negative which they will go to destruction because of primary not looking the bible as a whole for full positive for human forever.

You are bias because you are labeling GB wrong base on blood thing, even you say that 'blood issue wasn't applicable to some degree' well, you are basing blood because primary negative that is psy.., then secondary to blood? I am not sure which you feel negative first then negative second, and so on. So, anyway, you mention GB is wrong so you resist the blood so you feel they are wrong, but it is in bible.

So, you haven't answer about blood which I mention which you say you would, fine, then go ahead.

Ok, so you didn't counter-act all my answer that is a good point base on war thing and others, so hope ya will this time.

Antonio50S on June 05, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

About the Reasons why i feel the GB is wrong on their understanding of blood ?

There's that many reasons that you can only explain them a little at a time, but NOT going to get into debates or go round in circles on them.

Keep it Simple.

Will get back to you.


Antonio50S on June 05, 2020:

Khalif Foster.

Don't confuse Freedom of Speech & Freedom of Thought with Bias. At no point did i say the blood issue wasn't applicable to some degree, but me Personally, based on the Psychological Abuses i seen going on within the JWs, I would NEVER allow any of my children to die as a result of no blood just because a group of fallible GB members don't know how to Interepret the Scriptures. UNLESS i heard it from Jehovah himself. You saying to me i have to put my Trust in the GB just because THEY say they're being used by Jehovah ? I can think for myself. Something many JWs Including yourself rather i never did. ( Beware of Independent thinking as the GB say )

The GB are not masters over anybody's faith, the bible teaches that as well.

Talk about Bias. ( Out of 2 decrees mentioned in Acts 15 ) Here's an Example of Bias. How many children have Grown up within the JW Organization being Abused again and again, and again, year after year after year, While the Abuser saying each time, I'm Repentant, I'm Repentant, I'm Repentant ??? The congregation "Never" judge them harshly, but when they seen a JW taking blood to save a life, they looked down on them with disgust, almost as if they were Evil. Abusing Children in that way, going against one of them decrees is FAR WORSE than taking blood. ( That's BIAS )

I hardly ever think about the JWs now, but if i do have any issue with them, It's "NOT" because of any Bias, otherwise that would be "discriminating" Rather It's BECAUSE of the "Psychological Damage it causes many of it's members" causing them to lose faith in a God as well. Many of them are TRAPPED Psychologically in a system, and many Individual JWs know that as well. That's also why Abuses took place.

We all have Human Rights. Them Rights don't Include trapping members Psychologically into their Organization, Using "FALSE dates like 1914" And constantly infringing on their personality, Abusing them Psychologically untill there's nothing left of them.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948 ( UDHR ) which came from the UN. Who the GB & JWs talk bad about, is where JWs themselves get their Freedom of Speech.


Khalif Foster on June 05, 2020:

Ok, so what is reason you feel JW is wrong that is base on the blood itself or something else? So, when JW is wrong so you look at blood then JW as a whole is wrong so what is the process of viewing JW is wrong base what you feel JW is wrong then later you view blood is wrong when you have wrong process in your mind, so it is confirmation bias to keep what is wrong and not see what is right.

For example, you didn't pick the bible to pieces that Jehovah is wrong which you accept the bible as a whole is wrong when there is death, murder, constant of bad things, but for JW you pick to pieces that is blood is wrong which you say 'depends on decree', so that is problem on one part you didn't say bible is wrong base what bible did but you did label JW is wrong base on blood, but JW is right that doesn't use the blood but you mention they do add to bible which means blood extraction, so that is an additional so which it should be whole blood, so that is pick to the pieces which label JW is wrong, well, if they are wrong it doesn't justify as a whole is wrong because as a whole they are right unlike going to war to kill people, to vote, those are big things that is wrong, but for blood, it is wrong base on extract? No, because it is not visual obvious to people's point of view for the blood thing, but it is more visual obvious to people's point of view that vote to represent the leader to accept, to go to war means to kill.

So, for you, you are implying one thing they are right not to vote or go to war which you understand that go to war mean to kill and to vote means to accept a leader. If you can accept it and they can understand it, then you can understand that they will understand to be careful and do everything right, and not fool people which you say untruthful which it is connect to other things, but in this case untruthful about anything.

So, you assume they are untruthful so they are contradict the bible like they are right base what is visual like not going to war, not to vote, but do the wrong thing like fool people to extract the blood when it is still the blood when it should be whole base your statement there should be no personal decision and also implying going beyond what is written which means they are lying and fooling people, if they are beyond what is written unaware that doesn't justify they are wrong because they are unaware.

So, you can be wrong in big and small things, so it is not fair you can accept wrong in small things but not in big things, it is both the same, why not accept they can be wrong in small and big things?

So, you are right you need to be sure, so they are sure which they are more careful than small things so they are right, but you say they are wrong? Why is that? So, it is same as Korah to label Moses that is wrong. So, what you say is same as Korah that match Jude 11 about Korah. But of course, Korah used to be a follower of Moses, so you were not a follower of JW or not, but the point is made that is your view of a leader that is GB, so actual leader because that is Jesus, so GB is a provider and leader thru Jesus. Well, Jesus is not a leader which it is connect to GB is not a leader because the highest leader is Jehovah. So, Jesus and GB is an appoint leader, so sub-leader.

So, your view of GB is negative from non-leader as GB, that is you. So, what you say doesn't make sense that you can provide blood and accept Jesus, and at same time you say Jehovah will not allow Abraham to die because He will provide at end that is Jesus, so you are saying in equal anyone that sacrifice is wrong like if Jehovah allow Abraham to sacrifice his son then it is wrong on His part, so in same way that allow the child to die which to sacrifice the child to God base on blood, not like thru fire or anything, so it is a represent sacrifice, so not actual sacrifice like Abraham did because he kill, so did Jehovah because he kill by allowed, well, Abraham is more directly sacrifice, Jehovah is indirectly sacrifice by allow, in same way that parent is indirectly sacrifice by allow children to die base on blood.

So, you say taking the blood and accept Jesus, then what you say illogical because the blood is there as explain otherwise there is no reason for mention of blood, it would be non-exist, so blood is important. So, you feel taking blood to save life is ok, right, base your statement. So, like I say you are looking for negative, but not positive, well, you see the negative not giving blood or taking blood so that means GB is wrong and bad, right? But Jehovah allow bad stuff then Jehovah is bad as well, same with Abraham which He makes Abraham feel hurt that he will kill his son. So, it is same as now there is hurting by allow them to die by not taking the blood which you label as wrong, so it is not fair which in bible you label as they are right but for JW it is wrong, so you are equal logical if it is from bible then it is right, if it is not from bible then it is not right, well, bible doesn't say everything down to details, but it can be right as a whole.

Like smoking, going to war, to vote, etc, those negative part base on themselves and to others, but the blood is to other which it is negative that they will die so you feel it is wrong, well, if it is wrong then is going to war wrong? It is right for Christian to go to war? Will God accept people go to war?

Antonio50S on June 04, 2020:


Let me know when you read these post, then will explain my own observations of Pauls explanation of the decrees when i can.


Antonio50S on June 04, 2020:


About the Question you asked.

"Is not taking the blood right or wrong as it is in the bible or not ?"

That depends to what degree you want to apply the blood prohibition ? When you ask witnesses why they would take some medicines knowing they contain blood extracts, they would say it's a personal decision based on your own personal conscience.

Question is, why is it a personal decision if it's either right or wrong ?

How do the Governing Body make the distinction between what parts of the blood is important or not ?

Is it Ok taking medicines to save your own life knowing extracts derive from blood, yet not give blood personally ?

In the past they "LITERALLY" thought ( Life is IN the blood ) but what is certain now, the Governing Body themselves don't appear to know what extent the blood prohibition applies, if they did, personal decisions would not come into it.

It's OK being wrong on minor teachings, but a BIG one like this, you really need to be sure about.

Then you have Pauls explanation on the decrees which DON'T match up with the Governing Bodies. Paul himself never went "beyond what is written" ( 1 Cor 4:6 ) but the Governing Body have. Even beyond Pauls own explanation of the decrees, yet they quote Paul out of context. Give me a while, will explain.


Antonio50S on June 03, 2020:


Just quoting what you said about the "back-to-alive part"

First of all you have to establish if the Jehovah's Witness Governing Body even has a right to insist that abstaining from blood also includes blood transfusions ? due to pauls explanation of the decrees.

How many times have they said we don't go above the things written, when in reality that's EXACTLY what they do. I can literally mention example after example on this, Including their lack of understanding on the application of the 4 decrees in ( Acts 15 ), but lets go right to the Top. The "Governing Body" themselves. Can they be trusted.

Quote from Jesus. ( Matthew 5:36-37 ) "do not swear" but "Let your 'Yes' mean 'Yes' and 'No' mean 'No' ( Jesus said that for a reason)

At the "Australian Royal Commission" dealing with Institutional Child Abuse cases, "Jeoffrey Jackson" a JW Governing Body member, did exactly what Jesus said not to do in ( Matthew 5 ), and in one instance when questioned, he said "we are no different than any other Institution with these things going on", But prior to the discovery of all the Abuse cases within their own Organization they would laugh and Mock other Institutions for the very same things happening in their own Organization, because it would bring Reproach on the Name of Jehovah.

Well "Mellow03" It's difficult seeing what Exactly sets them apart as being the one true Organization God is using "as they claim" ? and the "Gentile Times Chronology" leading up to 1914 DON'T add up either. By not keeping to what Jesus said, and going ABOVE the things written on this point as well, they definitely brought Reproach on the name of Jehovah.

It's no good saying we are truthful and upfront about these things now, when in reality they had NO CHOICE but to face up, and appear in court over what happened within their own faith. The very idea of Truth means to be truthful BEFORE being exposed or found out to be Untruthful.

There's nothing wrong with Organization or being Organized, but the truth Jesus was referring to was Centred on himself, not on any Organization or Institution by themselves.


Antonio50S on May 27, 2020:


Just read your comment.

Just for now, the one point i was getting at. Abraham may well have been Loyal, but the sacrifice wasn't required in the end.

If God really wanted Abraham to sacrifice his son, he would have allowed him to continue despite his loyalty. If anything it shows more the character of God, but the real issue is when paul explained the decrees later on.

Give me a while. Will get back to you and explain what i am getting at.


Mellow03 on March 11, 2020:


You are contradicting a bit yourself by saying never allow a child to die is not loyal but at the same time, Abraham did allow to sacrifice a child. So, Abraham was loyal, so sacrifice the non-blood to enter a child is loyal as well. Abraham was sure that he will kill the son, so he was stop, same with a parent that allows the child to die. So, the child will get alive again. You forgot the back-to-alive part.

So, you are connected to the blood which you say decree is not about blood but about another thing, so blood thing is wrong. Well, if it is wrong then why is the statement of not eat blood in the Bible unless it is wrong that means human make mistake by not take blood, but opposite to give blood or no statement of not take blood at all in Bible.

Is not taking the blood right or wrong as it is in bible or not?

Anthony. on September 27, 2018:

P.S. i think you're a great inspiration to many, just because we got rid of the middle man don't mean we aren't brothers and sisters still. :)

Antonio50S on September 27, 2018:

To Mandy. If you don't mind, i would like to clarify a biblical verse that was mentioned on here some time ago, i'ts in relation to ( Acts 15:29 )

I know the witnesses in the past kept quoting this verse to imply that our very health is dependant on abstaining from them 4 decrees. The way the NWT bible words verse 29 is all wrong, it gives the impression that the gentiles will "prosper good health" by abstaining from these decrees.

Some people have got ill by taking blood, for others, it saved their lives, but that's besides the point, since the real reason the gentiles churches continued to grow and do well wasn't because of abstaining from the 4 decrees, ( it was because they wasn't obliged to keep the law of moses ) that's what the whole issue was about in the first place in ( Acts 15 ) and that's why the churches continued to do well. Even the council in ( Verse 11 ) knew what the issue was about when it said "No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." NIV

So the issue wasn't really about the decrees, it was about the gentiles not being required to keep the O/T laws. ( That's why they did well )

Plus if them 4 decrees was all that was needed for salvation, then it wasn't enough anyway, and it would also invalidate the death of jesus, since the death of jesus covered even the 4 decrees. Them decrees were issued for practical reasons, and issues that was going on at the time.

To anyone reading this ( don't loose a child ) by refusing blood, you may think that's loyal to God, but if you don't even know the backround to why the decrees were issued to begin with, then you will be guilty of letting a child die in the eyes of the God you claim to worship.

Whether a person chooses to have a faith or not ? ( Keep this in mind ) even if the blood issue did apply, and you gave blood to a child, ( All things are still covered by the death of Jesus, including taking blood to save a child )

One question witnesses should ask themselves, do you really think God up in heaven is going to look down and say well done ? Plus you don't know what regrets you will have afterwards, or even if you will remain a witness after an experience like that. Don't confuse loyalty with letting a child die, Even God never let Abraham sacrifice his son since he knew he would do the real providing in the end, by sending his son.

Anthony. on September 25, 2018:

Mandy. Read your story. So sad that you felt you had to get babtised at the age of 12 to win the approval and affection of mom. That's bad.

I know theres a lot of that going on within the watchtower organisation, babtizing ( children ) who really don't know what they're letting themselves in for at that young age. Most of them get babtised to either win the effection and approrval of their parents "or" feel like they have to be a model child to follow, but most of all, they get babtised because of the preasure the watchtower organisation keeps putting on it's members "Especially" the children while they are young.

The problem with that, as soon as the child reaches the ages of say 16-20 they start to have issues, and get disfellowshipped, all because of the preasures the witnesses put on them while young to begin with. That means the parents cannot talk or communicate with their kids any longer either. Considering the witnesses created that whole situation to begin with, that makes them responsible for the actions and ( mental health ) state of the children as they get older.

They keep talking about keeping Gods organisation clean, but you can hardley call that clean knowing the psychological damage they cause the children because of the very laws they themselves make up and impose on it's members.

They keep calling it Gods organisation, based on failed predictions and prophecies relating to 1914 that never materialized, even comparing themselves to the first centuary governing body ( Jerusalem council ) of ( Acts 15 ) yet that council was only there for one reason, and that was to help the first centuary Jews into the christian faith. That, council had ( Nothing at all ) to do with sending out orders for the gentiles or congregations to keep, like the witnesses keep saying. That teaching is an erroneous/wrong teaching designed to keep it's members locked into a religious system.

That council only ever issued a decree the one time only, and even then, it was the brothers from antioch ( Acts 15:1 ) that sent paul up to the council about a certain dispute that was going on. The council wasn't involved in the affairs of preaching to the gentiles as the witnesses claim. Anyone who makes a claim like that has control over it's members, which also can, and has lead to abuse cases going.

Anyone who reads ( Acts 15 ) a few times independently of JW thinking will see all this for themselves as well.

( Acts 15 ) also shows the council wasn't even aware that paul was preaching independently of the council, and when they realised that, they gave paul their approval or blessing to continue his work, ( as it happened, paul never needed their approval ) because God used paul independently of the council. That's also clear by reading ( Acts 15 & Galatians 2 )

The churches paul set up was also up and running for years till that dispute in ( Acts 15 ) arised, ( That also means the blood issue wasn't an issue to paul or to the church for years ) paul was absolutely convinced that theres nothing from outside the body that can defile a person, theres no reason why that wouldn't include blood as well.

( Galatians 2:6 ) also makes reference to that governing body, paul said, "As for those who seemed to be important---whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance---those men added nothing to my message"

Paul wasn't being disrespectful to that governing body, but just making a statement that they "added nothing" to his gospel message, and that God can, and does use whoever he wishes to.

By reading ( Galatians 2 ) 1-2 times, it becomes obvious paul is on about that first centuary governing body or ( Jerusalem Council )

The reason i took the trouble to explain this is to let people know that any salvation or beliefs a person ( chooses ) to have, or not have, is their choice, and that the JW governing body has no power or say in the matter whatsoever.

Nice family photoes by the way.

randy boucher on June 30, 2016:

I just finished my book

This is a journey of a boy with a very troubled upbringing trying to figure out who he is in this world. This journey begins with him fighting for his life, to wish at times that he had lost that fight. A boy struggling with the horror he might be gay. At a youthful age, converting to Jehovah Witness put an added burden and feeling of guilt upon him. Follow the bewildered boy, as he becomes an even more confused adult. Why he gets married at an early age and then has a son. Far-removed from the perfect family as it all falls apart. He opens up his emotions as he describes coming out as a gay man, and the consequences that followed. The battling with the Courts to be able to visit with the one person that meant the most to him. The struggles he encounters being gay and HIV+ while working as a machinist in a blue color world. Eventually finds him battling with the decision of suicide. To survive he has must learn to let go of his past and to learn to forgive. He explains this in the only way he knows how, and that is with humor. If you look hard enough you will discover a joke in any situation, it is just a little harder to see through tears.

Dr. Oscar A. Williams, Jr. from PA on September 11, 2015:

You don't have to be a JW to have your childhood stolen. Any religion taken out of context by a misunderstanding parent can do that to you. The quest to find and please a god often is the culprit. Parents force their kids to go to church or Sunday school with no explanation why thinking some how god is going to rub of on them and make them a good kid. So when they grow up they don't want anything to do with religion or church etc. My question is have you ever met the God of the Bible?

The Bible was written so that you may know Him who is the right to eternal life and that life is in His Son. God so loved the world that he gave His only Son, that who so ever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.

Jesus says " come unto me all you that labor and are heavy burdened and I will give you rest for I am meek and lowly of heart. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Religion (as you have surely seen) puts a heavy burden on you that you or no one else can bear. Jesus Christ bore our sins on Cavalries Cross in our place. He became sin for us who knew no Sin that we may become the righteousness of God in Him. Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. Coming to Jesus just as you are is all it takes, no church, no religion just simply asking him to come into your heart and be you Lord and Savior. he will do the rest. God bless you.

Eldad on September 09, 2015:

At least you are lucky to have your own children. I was raised in a religion that doesn't allow to marry outside the church. We were very few when I was younger so there was very difficult to find someone with whom I can fall in love and marry. Girls of my age were often married to the older men in the congregation so the idea of marrying someone from the church was impractical to those men of my age. But I chose to remain loyal and wait until, as they have taught me, God gives me my soul mate. Now I am almost 42, a man who has never been loved, never knew the taste of love, no wife but full of frustration, anger and deep bone-breaking sorrow. Now I feel that my church has stolen my life. It is too late now to change course (regarding marriage) and go my own way to find the love of my live anywhere. But it seems I am too old and too coward to make that change. I feel that I am betrayed and my fear of the Lord has been taken by somebody by someone to ruin my life. I feel emptiness. It is not easy to describe what I feel in words.

I feel that church leaders use religion to coerce people into their own way, pile up "commandments" which are not even in the Bible and totally ruin the lives of the adherent faithful. I see now a standing case of this sad experience.

pointblank009 from Buffalo on July 20, 2015:

I'm just seeing this and that is as grisley and gruesome an ex-JW story I ever read. Your mom is just one of a legion of what I term ROF parents (religion over family), that seems to overtake JW moms more than dads. Let me tell you something about those PUNKS in your congregation that wouldn't give you all a ride to the meeting even in the harsh weather, they don't qualify to judge or shun anyone, even in their wildest dreams.

Dylan Hamm on March 20, 2015:

Hello Mandy. Long time no see! As you know my childhood was very similar to yours, but with one difference I had a great friend who I use to look forward to seeing and playing Lego with and who was the only normal person I knew. My favourite band is still AC/DC and still feel a bit sick from being swung round by my legs lol.

Brenton on January 30, 2015:

That's a bad story, I pray things get better for you!

Dr. Oscar A. Williams, Jr. from PA on January 03, 2015:

It is very sad to see some one come out of a cult and not replace it with the truth. The Bible says (not the New World Translation) "know the truth and the truth shall set you free" My father stole our family heritage away by being involved in a cult that believed in euthanasia. I have cousins and uncles and aunts that I never seen. The ones that I do see are like zombies. Afraid to laugh or enjoy them selves. They were taught that having a little fun was a sin. We were taught not to go to them other churches or associate with them because we might pick up their demon. The thing that got me is that they used the true Bible but took the verses that they wanted to keep their followers in bondage.

The truth is you have to seek the God of the Bible for yourself, then you will find peace. Jesus said: My peace I give unto you, not as the world gives but I give unto you" "Seek me with all of your heart and you will find me" You don't need no church or religion to do this. God is real, all you have to do is ask. God if you are real show me, and he will.

ShirleyJCJohnson on November 19, 2014:

Your story is one of pain, yet of beauty. Of deprivation, yet of life. You managed to find beauty through your pain. You have been validated as a mother in your rights. You found life out of deprivation in that you now have children and a happy home for them. When a person will put the one true God above all, He will put you above all. Here's to many more wonderful years with your children.

Emma J on November 11, 2014:

A few months ago when i gave birth to my daughter I felt as though I wanted to put in writing my experiences with the Jehovah Witnesses religion. Instead I read experiences like yours online just so I dont feel as though I am alone in my eperience. I too am a disfellowshipped ex JW. My father was abusive an alcoholic and an Elder, I had a terrible upbringing in this "religion" my parents seperated they could not divorce so this lead to a very messy breakup and bavk and forth between them we were shunned and cast out by the congregation and our own family. I can relate to so many of these comments and your experience. I had a harrowing conversation with my mother this weekend and am still having my family hound me back to this cult. I am told my mind is totally closed off and Im blinded by satan and his world and my daughter wont live until shes 16 or remember any of the Christmases or birthdays that I intend for her to celebrate as I dont want her to be bullied and made to feel an outcast and be bullied as my sister and I were when we were young. I am still finding my way and finding it difficult to come tk terms with this religion that has been so much a part of my life even whe I chose to not be part of it. Its reassuring to know that Im not so alone in my experience and Im not demonised as my family say.

Mellow03 on August 30, 2014:

Hi, it seems there is a theme, all childhood problem in connect to JW as parents were / are involved with JW. So, you blame JW that cause problem to your parent, which cause problem to you. Do you feel it is JW fault that cause problem to your parent? But not your parent's fault because of your love to your parent, but no love to JW. Well, to be accurate, it is not JW, but JW's Leader, Watchtower Society or Government Body. The faithful Slave. Do you blame your parent, but forgive your parent? Or / both, blame Government Body, but not forgive them? If forgive, then as a whole, not blame them as result, which it is now. But in past yes, but now no.

Believe on July 30, 2014:

I to have simmular stories, i'm thinking we need to start a support group. I have started seeing a phychiatrist, i left the JW at 18 and i am now 45. To anyone listening, seek professional help. Don't wait. I am trying to move forward. We are good people. Try not to substatue religions to soon either, if you believe in God you will find him.

Tony on July 22, 2014:

Your story is quite sad. The thing I noticed most was the lack of any kind of love in your life. Some people (parents) just don't know h0w to love. And the reason why you got baptised, well, it's also very sad to hear. I can see, plainly, you didn't back then, and you maybe still haven't found God. The God of the Bible, is the true God, there is no other God but him. You can find his name in the Bible, in the King James version at Psalm 83, verse 18. It's printed there in bold letters for all to see. I just hope that one day you get to know this person, then you really will find love, and learn how to love.

Debi H. on May 13, 2014:

Part 2 that cut off - I was there long enough for the conviction of the cross to open my eyes from their bible and then argue with the elders that Jesus was the worthy One and I had a calling on my heart to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses and not look back. John 14:6

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

So, I was there long enough to also be disfellowshipped. My father is again disfellowshipped and I am close to him these days. He uses our story in his new church and explains our victory through a victim mentality that we were both (he and I) victims of this cult. He can't acknowledge his role in the whole ordeal and the horrid abuse I suffered. He has swept that part under a rug somewhere. He has joined the Methodist church and teaches Sunday school. He grew up in this church and feels religiously important and he is admired and respected. I do not allow him to share his religious view points with me any more. I have forgiven him, but I can't forget that he was in a leadership position in my life, and he let me down. I got away from the witnesses and removed my children from their clutches. For my children's sake, I found a church group years ago and got them involved in youth activities. I have a merged family of seven kids that I raised with my wonderful husband. Most of our kids are doing well, happily married and they are raising their families in a church environment. I am a believer in Jesus Christ, but fear organized religion. I will always struggle with watching the news and dooms day reports because I was spoon fed Armageddon is coming, so you better watch out or it's gonna get you. I have two adult children that were questioning Christianity and looking for religious answers. They were part of youth church groups as kids and they recently got a connection with the Witnesses. My son lives in another state he was a little depressed, and so I was praying with him and talking about encouraging scriptures. After we hung up, his front door blew open from a gust of wind and there were the witnesses in his door way. He went to the door and invited them in. He said they shared similar scriptures that I had read with him and they talked for two hours. Finally, they showed him a video about Armageddon and he said, Your god seems selfish and cruel. That's not the God that saved me. Then my son asked them to leave. My step daughter became involved with loca