The cruelty of the Christian god.
I have often mentioned the cruelty of the Judaic-Christian God. Let’s examine that claim.
No matter what god we are talking about, I have to go back to the one thing it obviously did if it exists which shows it’s absolute cruelty. That is, to create a world where everything must selfishly kill something if it is going to eat and live A world where food feels pain too. A world of disease, suffering, pain, etc. If any conscious being created the universe, no matter who’s god, then it is a cruel god in the extreme. Its crimes against its creation are unforgivable. Unless, of course it had no choice. But that's not how most people see the Christian god, or most others.
When debating Christians they often say it's our fault for original sin. Had we not done that life would be easier. The lamb would sleep with the lion. Really? So ok, we supposedly sinned and our punishment is pain and suffering. Then why do the animals we kill for food have to suffer? What did cows do to deserve god's wrath? It makes no sense. Then to punish all humans for the supposed sin of two, how loving is that? How fair is it? We didn't do anything. And he supposedly forgave us after some of murdered Jesus for him. And nothing changed?
That's another thing that bothers me: that which Christianity is based on: the murder of Jesus. I say murder because apparently it was planned by god. It seems this god loves us so much he wants to forgive original sin. But to do it we are required to murder his son. Really? How insane. To pay for our supposed debt we had to murder a god? Doesn't that sound like the ultimate sin? He had to take our punishment for us? God can't do what we all can do: forgive without murdering some one? Talk about cruel beyond belief.
It's as if a bank owner said he'd forgive all debts owed if we murder his son. What would we all think of him? Yet a god does it and it's righteous? Is it moral to allow another to go to jail for you, or be executed for you? No. Even our laws don't allow that. Yet to get to heaven we have to accept that Jesus died/was murdered by us, for us, and celebrate it? No thanks.
It is said that when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, God told them that they could have anything they wanted, but that they should not eat from the fruit of a certain tree. It is said that Eve was tempted by a snake and she ate from the tree and that she convinced Adam to do the same. Tell me, who did the manipulating here? As I mentioned before, God knew full well that the tree existed. Why did he place it so that they would be tempted to touch it? If he knew all he knew they would touch it without question.
He had just created these two, so he knew full well what they would do, given human nature which he had just endowed them with. He knew that the snake was lurking too. Did he want them to eat the fruit so he could punish them for it? What kind of God would do such a thing? Could he not have hidden the tree? Could he not have simply made it impossible for them to reach the tree? Does this mean the tree could only exist here on earth? Then why does the tree no longer exist? If it does, where is it? Is it still in the garden? If not, then that is proof that it had served its purpose, and he took it from the world. It also shows that it didn't have to be here in the first place. Either that, or it shows that this is a God that makes mistakes.
That's what it all comes down to: Did god plan it that way, or was it a mistake? Had the incident with the tree been planned by god, he wouldn't have gotten so angry. Not unless something went wrong. But if something can go wrong with one of gods plans, then he can make mistakes. This means god is not omnipotent. Either way, the anger he shows tells the story. There was something he didn't know.
Did he also make a mistake when he created Satan? For surely he knew that this angel would turn against him and be cast into hell. Or did he design Satan for that purpose? And if so, why? That is not the interpretation most of us have of the story. We have been told that god was saddened that Satan turned against him. Yet again, his sadness shows god's lack of omnipotence. But think of it this way, would you respect a fickle parent that gave you love and then took it away when another child came along? Did god not tell Satan that the angels were no longer his chosen people, and that mankind had become his favorites? Was it not for that reason that Satan turned against him? That's the story, anyway, even though it's nowhere in either bible.
I realize that this concept is not the one held by all Christians. They claim that Satan wanted to be like god, and even more. But there is no basis in the old testament for that idea. In fact a Satan is an angel that watches and reports back to gad according to the old testament. They are like police. They accuse mankind in front of god when we have done something we shouldn’t have. There is no basis for the Christian concept of Satan at all. It’s a fiction. But let’s pretend it isn’t for the sake of argument.
We must remember that god likes to chose a section of his creation over another. He has a history of choosing "favorite children" just like many human families do. We know that such a practice makes for very unhappy siblings. Could a god be this bad at child rearing? On the other hand, a supposedly perfect angel like Satan would surely know that he could never be as powerful as a god. To think otherwise presupposes that this Satan was incredibly stupid or at the very least, incredibly naïve. If his god was all love and light then he would have basked in god's glory like all the other angels. He must know something about this god Christians fail to see.
No one wants to think the unthinkable: that god is destructible. Yet around the time the Jewish people were walking around in the desert, such ideas were a very real part of the region's lore. The duelist religions believed that there was a never ending war going on between good and evil. It was never ending because good and evil were equal in strength. Looks like the Muslim Gentlemen was right when he said that when two powers of that magnitude get together, they fight for dominance. That idea is prevalent in all myths from around the world. There are always Gods that fight amongst themselves for power, and they always end up taking it out on us.
This is the only way mankind could explain what we were seeing before our eyes. There seemed to be a balance in the thought that good and evil gods were doing all this. We understood this concept because we played political games like that ourselves, and heard stories of people who had. The gods were made in our image. Just as we were copies of our parents, gods had made adults as lesser images of themselves. What we did, the gods did. What we felt, they felt, only more intensely and with more power attached to their conviction
The Jewish god took responsibility for both evil and good. The Jewish people accepted that and simply lived with the paradox being there was no other game around. Evil or good, do what it wants or suffer. But the Jewish god too was a balanced god, you simply did what he said and you were ok. And by doing what it wanted it was hopped you could manipulate it into doing what you wanted. But the Christians wanted to make him omnipotent, all seeing and knowing, all wise, all love with a hatred of sin and evil. The Christians faced a problem, however. Ever hear of god fearing people? Why would you be proud of fearing your supposedly all loving god?
To account for the misery in the world, and give a ray of hope that life wasn't meaningless, a Satan was necessary. Only in that way could god take on the role of being all love and forgiveness as the Christians had wanted. But there was another problem, If god knows what the outcome is going to be for every action, then he can't claim ignorance, so another device had to be introduced: Free will. In this theory, god knows in advance what the outcome of all this is going to be. But because of free will, we can sin and god can't do anything about it. God does not want us to sin but he is restrained by his "gift." The problem here is that god has free will too, and exercises that free will on a regular basis in the Old Testament. Another version is that god only knows everything that can be known, but due to free will he can't know what we will do at any given moment. Free will meaning a will not influenced by god. So much for god knowing our minds, as were always told.
The point is, Satan has free will too. Revelations lays out a blueprint of what is to come. It says that Satan's fate is awaiting him. It's a done deal. Does Satan know this? If we do, shouldn't we assume that he does too? Are we to believe that a Satan who already knows that he will not win against god in the final battle wouldn't have the brains to change the rules of the game by simply not making the moves that will lead to his destruction? He certainly has free will. This is evidenced by the fact that, according to Christianity, he was able to go against god in the first place. What is to stop him from using that free will? Nothing.
Revelations lays it all out for him. He can read can't he? If he can't even negotiate his way out of such a simple puzzle, he never had a chance. If he doesn't have a chance, it negates the need for Satan to be here, and makes his creation a cruel joke played at mankind’s expense. What I mean is that if god is that powerful that he can force Satan to do whatever he wishes, then God is pulling all the strings. God creates the evil and then places it on the earth to.... what? Test us? See how much he can torture us before we turn away from him? See how much we can take? For what reason? What Purpose? It sounds like the experiments of a mad scientist in an old horror movie.
Before Christianity we had a balanced system of good and bad gods. It made for a certain amount of symmetry. But with this god, there is an imbalance. The other gods fought for or against us. We knew who the enemy was. But this god has created evil in our lives by virtue of a conscious plan. This then, is a cruel god. If it has no restrictions on what it can do, and it chooses to create evil, and then unleashes it on the world. Then there is no reason to do so other than his own whim.
In other words, If a god is restricted and lives by laws as we do, then we can see a definite reason for him to work within those rules if he wants to get something done. In that case, the end can sometimes justify the means. Just because we don't understand the reason God does something doesn't mean it is bad because we don't know all the variables this God may encounter along the way. Mountains sometimes have to be moved to build a road. We can justify his actions because there is no way we, or he, can know with certainty what will happen. But if that is true, then all the prophesies of doomsday are just so much speculation and hot air.
A god that must live by laws is not an omnipotent god. If god does not control time then he is ruled by it. A god that does not know past, present, and future, is not all knowing and can't be all seeing or all wise. The logic of this seems too simple to be missed by millions of people. Yet it is. But an omnipotent god that does what it wills, when it wills, with no restrictions of any kind, does not "have" to be cruel. It chooses to be.
Also, this god can't be perfect. Why? A perfect thing has no needs, and thus no need to create this. You don't scratch unless you itch. There is a reason for everything we do. Without one, we do nothing. Why would a supposedly perfect god need to create this? It just proves that if it exists it's not perfect.
Moderate Christianity wants us to evolve in to loving, blissed out individuals. To them, god is not the same one that lives in the Old Testament. He is a god of "infinite love". Christianity created this idea of God by giving us free will and satan. It does not reflect the Jewish view anymore, and obviously is fraught with logical inconsistencies.
Seen in the way I have just described above, Christianity's god also seems to want balance for itself. To me, this is the subconscious of mankind manifesting itself in the form of its god. God is incomplete, or ill, and needs help. This is a god with frailties. We can relate to it and sympathize. We can even empathize with a frail god, and that is what we do when we say he created us out of loneliness. But for the Christian to ever see his or her god this way they would have to acknowledge that their god evolves. As soon as religion sees that god evolves, it must realize that its god was not perfect to begin with.
As long as they keep to the old god of Judaism, they can never reconcile the two sides of their faith. A God of "Infinite love" Vs. A God of "Worship me or got to hell." For me, it is a simple question of Evolution Vs. Planned Cruelty. If god is omnipotent, then he is cruel, if he is not, then he is inept.
Then there is the question of incest. Why would a god create only two people, and then tell them to multiply? Who were their offspring supposed to multiply with? Each other? So why did they only have three sons? Granted, the Bible does not speak of woman much except in a bad light, but it should mention Adam and Eve's daughters. Well they are mentioned in books that were rejected by the early church like the Gospel of Adam and Eve. And incest is the way it went.
Cain and Able couldn't mate with each other, obviously, so that left Eve and their sisters to the task of being wife to who knows? No mention is given in the OT or NT as to how all this was to be accomplished either. In fact if we rely on the current bible alone Eve was the wife of all of them. But wait. Others say that Adam and Eve were not the only people god created, but that they were the first. Again, an interesting speculation. Nowhere does it actually say this to be the case, but it is implied by the fact that the brothers do find mates in other sections of Eden. We don't know anything about the woman or their families, and the Bible is very confusing on this issue.
GEN 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
GEN 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
So where is the land of Nod? Who were the people who were living there? Cain got a wife from this place and then had more sons. Or did he? it only actually says that it was there that she bore Enoch but it does not say she came from there. It says here that he built a city, but what is a city but a whole lot of people living in the same aria? Where did they come from? As you see, this is quite impossible without some kind of intervention. But nothing is said about how it was done.
GEN 4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
Again, where did Enoch's wife come from? Were Adam and Eve a metaphor to represent the first Hebrews or Semitic people that god created? That doesn't make much sense when compared to the rest of Genesis, does it? But that is the evidence we see before us. We know the Jews borrowed this myth from the Babylonians, so they must have taken Adam and Eve to be the first Jews. They must have also been assuming that the Babylonians were distant relatives. Of course they did as they must have been sons of Noah.
We can only assume that God "provided" a few more woman by divine intervention. Perhaps they were taken from the ribs of Adam's sons as well. Though I would hardly think they would have to go to other parts of Eden in order to undergo this surgery. Of course, it is not said in the Bible that the sons stuck around to build a community either. What is said is that they went out to build cities of their own. Again we have a problem with incest and cities without people, or all related to one pair.
Some have even suggested that yes, humans were around for hundreds of thousands of years, but they had no free will. God then created Adam and Eve as the first people with free will around 10,000 bce. Hence why by 6000 bce the sub-humans they mated with were able to come up with civilization, farming, writing, etc. That would certainly explain it... not.
Even if we ignore all of this first creation, we still have Noah to contend with. Now literally everyone had been done away with, there was no choice anymore. We would still have to think that God intervened. But in Noah's case, there is no evidence of intervention whatsoever either. What has always surprised me is that when asked, not many Christians have a problem with incest being the way mankind was propagated. If that was how god wanted it done, then that's how he did it. No problem. They have obviously been faced with this idea before and are resigned to it. They don't seem shocked when I bring up the subject. They see no cruelty in incest.
But then I have to ask the question. Why did he later make incest a sin? If it was good enough for creation, why is it a sin today, and why does inbreeding cause deformity and retardation? Wouldn't it have done so then as well? Did god make another mistake? Or is this really a mistake made by the creators of god? Had the people who originated these stories (The Sumerians) not yet evolved to where they were actively breeding animals? If that is so, then they could not possibly know the consequences of incest. Perhaps they hadn't attributed deformity of their "own" young to it yet.
Another example of this cruelty is, so called, free will. On the one hand, the religious say we have free will, but if god knows in advance that we will sin. Then there is no free will. If he knows all, then it is predestined to happen, and we have no free will because no matter what we do it is the will of god. So why allow the babies to be born that he knows will commit mortal sins and be cast into eternal hell? Did he lie when he told us we had free will? Was it another mistake? It looks like this god is very cold blooded, indeed.
This brings me to another point. Nowhere in the Bible does it actually say that we were given free will. We were told unconditionally that we must not eat of the tree. There was no choice given except the choice created by cause and effect. The tree was there, had it not been, there would be no cause and no effect. It was god’s fault, not that of Adam and Eve. Where does the idea of free will come from if not from the Bible itself? Nowhere does it say he didn't want robots, it’s something we have come to believe because we do have will; and it seems free enough on first glance, till we know what it is..
But in a way, the entire story implies free will, as in a will not completely controlled by god. Otherwise, how could they have sinned? And yet we know our will is not controlled directly by other humans either. And in those senses it's free of direct control, but not history, influence, genetic predispositions etc.
Then there are the tests. The story of Abraham, who must sacrifice his child to god in order to appease him, and only at the point Abraham is ready to commit murder does god stop him and tell him it was just a test. Didn't god know in advance what the outcome of that test would be? Why do a test if you know the outcome? Why does god test people if he knows the outcome? It makes zero sense.
Please don't think that this was the first time a son had been sacrificed for god. If Christianity believes that this was just a test and god would not actually let someone go through with it, they don't know history very well. As I have already pointed out, almost every culture in history had its sects which sacrificed children and virgins to their gods.
The laws of Moses tell us that we must sacrifice our first born and the first born of every animal we own. What could a benevolent god want with the blood of our first born children? This is outright cruelty. The fact the Jews replaced their kids with sheep is an indication that they weren’t happy with the idea of sacrificing their kids anymore and so had to make up a story in which god told them it was ok not to. The story of Abraham maybe just a story told by the Jews which explains to them why they didn’t have to sacrifice their kids now that they had a new relationship with god through Abraham.
And then there is the flood. It is believed by some that he literally wiped out all life on the planet except for a boat load of animals. He committed genocide. Now is that the act of a loving father or a vengeful, vain god with no regard for his creation in the least? It would be the same if science created a race of intelligent beings in the lab, and simply decided to toss them in the wastebasket when they didn't perform as was expected.
But we are not talking about a limited human being that could claim he didn't know they could suffer.. We are talking about a supposedly all knowing and all seeing god. Why would a god have to do this? Did he not know in advance that the world would turn out the way it did? Did he make another mistake in his creation and decide not to correct it? The evidence begins to point to a god with a great deal of ineptitude. The more in-depth story of the flood can be found in the book of Enoch. It is where we get a lot of our ideas about Satans and the reason for the flood. Even though it is not recognized as part of Judaism or Christianity.
The old testament is full of such examples from beginning to end. Each event shows him as little more than a vain vengeful entity bent on the glorification of himself and the slavery of the creation he brought into being. The rhetoric bears this out: "Vengeance is mine." “An eye for an eye." “God fearing people." “The wrath of God” The list goes on. Here are a few quotes that illustrate the points I have been making up till now.
Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
In this passage, god advocates and commands the murder of children and woman, as well as slavery of young girls.
Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein (is) the breath of life, from under heaven; (and) everything that (is) in the earth shall die.
Here we see god committing genocide upon his creation.
Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote (massacred) all the first-born in the land of Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the first-born of the captive that (was) in the dungeon: and all the first-born of cattle.
Even the cattle were not immune to god's wrath. What sin could they have possibly perpetrated? Of course, he didn't care about the cattle, as such. It was done to bring more misery to the person he was punishing. Yes, all of this destruction upon innocent people and animals, all to punish the Pharaoh for not letting the Jews leave Egypt. Yet time after time it is said that the lord God hardened the pharaoh's heart and wouldn't let him give in.
EXO 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
Here, the proof comes from gods mouth. "but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." God does not say that the pharaoh will harden his heart. He says: "but I will harden his heart," At almost every juncture of the many plagues God sets upon Egypt, the Pharaoh wants to give in. Yet when the plagues are over, "God" hardens his heart. Some say that we are to interpret this as meaning that the Pharaoh went back on his word. Are we supposed to believe that after every plague, which destroys so much of Egypt, the Pharaoh thinks to himself that it was all coincidence? Are we to believe the Pharaoh thought Moses or his God had no real power?
How could he believe that if the evidence was before his eyes? There is an answer to this. If you read these passages you get the impression that there was a long stretch of time between the plagues. This is not a thing that happens in seven consecutive days. There is, in fact, no time frame indicated, but it would make sense that if a long period of time elapsed between each plague the Pharaoh would have time, and just enough doubt, that he might take a chance on it all being coincidence.
But then, wouldn't he have had Moses and Aaron murdered? Why not? It would have solved his problems and quelled any rebellion. These were two Jews in front of him; slaves. If he feared them he would have had them killed. If he feared them or their god enough not to have them killed out of an apprehension of reprisal, he would have let them go. But he does nothing. He just sits there and allows them to roam the city, stirring up rebellion. Would a real politician act that way? History indicates that he would not.
What about Mosses and Aaron? If a long time passes between the end of each plague and the beginning of the next, where are they? Shouldn't they have tried to leave right away? It makes sense that Moses would have gone back the morning after he had stopped the plague and said "Ok, god stopped the plague. Now keep your promise and let us go."
It does not make any sense that he should wait for months in between. It also makes no sense that since pharaoh doesn't let them go, Moses or god would wait a number of days or months to start the next plague. So how could there have been a long time frame? The only reason for there to be a long time frame between plagues would be if Moses needed time to set each one of them up.... Surely a god needs no time to set up a plague?
Again, if we are not happy with that thought then we are left with the idea that if there were short spans of time between each plague, then the Pharaoh would not have been able to ignore these terrors. He would not have been that stupid or that sure of himself, would he? Yet that is what we are told is going on here. So maybe we can say that Pharaoh is head strong and a bit stupid, but that is not how Moses sees it. Moses keeps attributing the "hardening of the heart" to god instead of the Pharaoh, and god himself claims this to be the case.
This suggests that god couldn't, or wouldn't, simply soften the heart of pharaoh, so he had to "force" him to let them go through no less than terrorist tactics. The plagues are akin to chemical and biological warfare designed to torment and traumatize the Pharaoh and the people of Egypt. You can see the dilemma here. If god had said to Moses that he knew the Pharaoh to be a despicable man that wasn't about to let the people leave, we could understand that. The Pharaoh admits to not knowing who their god is. We expect the pharaoh to be obstinate.
But god is saying that he personally will make sure the Pharaoh feels this way. That is what "I will harden his heart" literally means. This says that god did not want to "soften" the heart of the pharaoh. If god had said that he would "soften" the Pharaoh's heart for the Jews, and deal with him later for his obstinate heart, then that would show a wise, fair, and compassionate god. It would have shown that he knew the heart of Pharaoh. It would have shown his real power and understanding. But Moses was making a point here, and it is explained best in this next passage.
EXO 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
This says that the god of Moses is in control of everything. Pharaoh has no free will in the matter, nor does he have any say in its outcome. This god plans it all in advance and then just moves the chess pieces. There is no free will here at all. In that light, can we blame the Pharaoh for the wrath of god? If god has hardened his heart then it is god playing with the Pharaoh at his whim and amusement. His anger then looks like it comes from the psyche of a mad man. Having planed it all, he has no reason to be angry.
But, either god has control over the situation or he does not. It is clear that Moses felt he did, and that god purposely didn't let the Pharaoh give in so as to be able to perform all these miracles of torture. What he shows no concern for, at all, are all the innocent Egyptians he is murdering. Again, this unbalanced god takes his vengeance out on the babies. Does any of that make sense?
For the leader of any country or army or religion to advocate this kind of behavior would be viewed as barbaric in the absolute extreme. We would rise up on mass and smash his regime. Yet this is the god of Moses? This is the all loving and all forgiving Christian god?
Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh (is) the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
We might ask when this decree was revoked. I have never seen a passage in the Bible where it says it's ok to work on the Sabbath, yet Christians completely ignore this decree. Not that I'm complaining. Let's let god do his own dirty work. If he wants to stone us on the Sabbath, let him pick up the rocks and do it himself.
II Samuel 12: 31 And he (David) brought forth the people that (were) therein, and put (them) under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon
More murder in the name of God.
Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.
If you weren't convinced that god thinks it’s ok to have slaves, this passage should quell all your doubts. Not only does he advocate slavery, he tells us we should obey our masters as we obey Christ. This god does not tell the owners of slaves to set them free. He tells the slaves to obey their masters. To me this is yet another sign post that tells of the politics of religion.
Ephesians 5:22-23 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church.
Woman are the possessions of men, in the eyes of this god. They own them and are above them. So much for woman's lib if you are Christian. When god was handing out the laws, he also provided for the slavery of beautiful woman, as is seen in these next passages.
DEU 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
DEU 21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
DEU 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
DEU 21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
It does not say that she should consent to this marriage. It is enough that you allow her a month to mourn the parents you have murdered. Then you can go to her and take her at will. I think we call that rape these days. But that's fine with God. Oh, and then there is: What shall we do with unruly boys?
DEU 21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
DEU 21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
DEU 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
DEU 21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
The benevolence and forgiving nature of this god amazes me. (Please excuse my sarcasm) Then there is Jesus himself
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Jesus)
Even though Jesus is seen as all loving, he shows here that the message of god has not changed. "Love me, worship me, or go to hell" is still the order of the New Testament. The next passage shows this as well.
Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth. (Jesus)
Then there is the next gem.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Jesus)
¬Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Jesus says this after becoming angry with prospective disciples who tell him they must attend to their lives. One man had just been married. Another had just bought a few head of oxen. He actually tells them that if they don't hate their father and mother, wife, children, brothers and sisters, they cannot be with him. Are these the words of a lamb? To me, they are the words of a fanatic.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Jesus)
Contrary to popular belief, Jesus is telling us that his message is not one of love and peace, but one of vengeance and retribution. Again I must point out that the message of god has not changed in this regard.
Deuteronomy 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones (testicles), or hath his privy member (penis) cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Anyone with any disfigurement need not apply to enter heaven. This is contrary to other scriptures that say that those who are castrated get to heaven faster. It also is contradictory to all that Jesus said about the blind and disfigured later on in Luke. It is easy to see where this idea comes from, though. We must remember that only the unblemished sheep is a fit sacrifice for god. This is just an extension of that idea. Everything seems to depend on the writer of the passages, and his interpretation of what his god wants. But to punish those with disfigurement is cruelty.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these (things).
This is my favorite quote of all, for many reasons. This quote points to a very different god than any Christian is willing to acknowledge. It also illustrates what I said before about the onus for our behavior being full square on god. He leaves no doubt as to who is to blame for whatever happens to creation.
What god wants is for us to worship, love and fear him. But when a person fears someone, can they also love them? Or does fear breed cowering followers, bent only on making sure they do not tread on the abusers toes? It does not inspire anyone to love god, only to obey him out of fear of reprisal. If that is all you know from the time of your birth, I suppose you are used the idea and see nothing wrong with it. It's like a child who does everything in their power to convince an abusive parent to love them. It is, however, a pitiable way to live. Where is free will? Where is this loving god they speak of? It seems he only really loves himself, the rest of creation is less than he, and beneath him.
The Jewish god was both good and evil. It went beyond that. It defined what evil is and what good is in relation to us. It created the conditions for both. In other words it determines the rules of the game and that is all life is. Life is god’s game and we are forced to play it by his rules. But he is not restricted by such rules. The Christian god was neutered. It created good and we, it’s flawed creation, created evil. Yet we are made by a perfect god and were made perfect until we sinned. How could we sin if we \were perfect? That is one of the impossible fantasies of Christianity. The very idea is illogical in the extreme.
Of course this completely contradicts the OT. They do not believe in the Jewish god at all. It’s a whole new god. An all good god. It is of course an absolutely impossible paradoxical god as is the entire religion.
Yet if we were produced by a natural process, then the apparent cruelty of the world is just the only way the world could come to be. And the reason it is not cruel is because there was no intent involved. Evil is intent. Only a conscious being can have intent. A process follows cause and effect according to its nature. So if a conscious god exists then it is to blame for all our hardships and our suffering. It created the conditions for it. It is guilty of cruelty by default, and beyond belief. .
If on the other hand the universe is governed by natural processes that are not conscious, then life is just the way it is. It is no one’s fault and we better make the best of it. For me then, not only is there no god required; no conscious god is desirable. Particularly not the Christian version.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on October 14, 2020:
Yes, but all religions inspired those things. It's not a product of religion, it's already part of what humans do and like. Look at castles. Great ideas went into their building. They show status, wealth, and power. Religion inspired people to build, sing, paint etc, But we can be inspired by many things. We don't need religion anymore, though there may have been a time we did. If a person says we should all be moral, it may go in one ear and out the other. If you convince people a god said it, it carries more weight.
We don't need it now because we know bringing crap down on people's heads, your likely to have some dumped on you. It's just logical. Morality is good for all. We all want a secure peacful life, You can't have that if you're constantly looking over your shoulder for enemies.
And to prove we don't need religion, a few thousand years ago you had a 60 plus percent chance of dying young at the hands of someone else. That decreased slowely due to philosophy and religion. But it also caused countless wars. It was around 30 percent after the Catholic/Protestant wars.
Now, after religion lost it's power, it's down to between 1 and 3 percent.
We are far more moral than the bible demands. It advocated hate for those who don't believe, it advocated slavery, oppression of women, and all kinds of things we now find immoral.
No need for a god to tell us what's moral. Cause and effect does that. You do something, there are consequences. Want a good life? Don't cause shit for others. It's simple
Moral Man on October 12, 2020:
The only good things I can think of which Christianity has done good is it has given us art work, music, architecture, and literature. Christmas trees and decorations are nice too. It gives us pretty things to look at.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on October 12, 2020:
If there is, then god is a real asshole. Ever wonder how stupid the devil would have to be to think he could defeat god? Or is it possible? Does he know something we don't? The bible tells us exactly what the devil will do that will cause his downfall. Is he so dumb he can't read? Were I him I'd do nothing of the sort and really mess god up.
It's all too stupid and illogical to be real. And as for believing just in case we'd have to believe a lot of religions just in case. That won't work. Also, do you think god wouldn't know if some one believes just in case? I doubt he'd be happy about it.
What I think is that if you live a good life, don't harm others, don't become a thief, Try to make the world a better place like the bible and so many other religions advocate, that should be good enough.
If not, god's an asshole and he can go to hell himself.
I don't believe anything.
Moral Man on October 11, 2020:
It may just be hallucination caused by the brain or subconscious, but what if these visions of hell are objectively real as opposed to subjectively real? Many believe that hell is located deep inside the earth. Dante described the 9 circles of hell, as does preacher David J. Stewart. Aside from being burned in fire forever, Dante and David J. Stewart claim there are other forms of torture in hell. My biggest fear is claustrophobia or being buried alive in enclosed places, and suffocation or inability to breathe.
In Dante's 6th circle of hell he claims that sinners or heretics will be tortured forever in flaimg tombs. At some point in the future those flaimg tombs will be sealed. What does this mean? Does this mean these unfortunates will be buried alive inside closed coffins with the lids closed? This is too cruel to contemplate. Its beyond horrific, and David J. Stewart also describes hell as being claustrophobic, or like being buried alive forever while burning in fire at the same time. This makes God into an evil, cruel, sadistic monster. This is no longer just punishment for sin. The punishment here is vastly greater than the sin, and the punishment itself is a sin. This is very scary.
Maybe its better to be on the safe side and believe that this belief in hell is true in case it turns out real.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on October 11, 2020:
I wrote another three articles on this very topic: Why spiritual experiences are questionable, why did people start believing in gods and the origins of consciousness. I'll give you a summery here but the details are in the articles. It's all about auto response and the subconscious,
We have two parts to our brain. The subconscious and the conscious. Notice that the subconscious thinks in feelings/emotions. Consciousness thinks in words/language. Just try not using words to deliberate on any topic.
Anyway, the subconscious gets sensory information before conscious thought kicks in. A ball is coming toward your face. Do you think about what to do? No. You will move or catch the ball depending on how much experience you have with playing ball. Neurology found out your subconscious knows you are going to do seconds before it informs consciousness, and we think consciousness came up with it.
Deliberation and experience train the subconscious auto response. Everything we do well is on auto. You've probably noticed artists or writers or musicians that when asked where the character/idea/song came from, and they say: "Oh, it just seemed to write itself. It took on a life of its own.
That's because it came from the subconscious.
Again, there's lots more detail to all this if you're interested. But suffice it to say: The subconscious can be trained to give you any experience you want, as if its ultra real. I wanted to have all the experiences the Buddhists and Hindus and gurus talk about. I studied for years as a teenager and accomplished them all. States of bliss, perfect understanding, a unity with all things, and of course out of body experience almost at will. I talked to Jesus, Buddha, spirits, etc.
Eventually though, I started to wonder. I decided to do an experiment. I ended up living in middle earth for what seemed like a couple days, but was only about 20 minutes. It was as real to me as everyday life. Then I met Alice in wonderland and knew it was all in my head and I could have any experience I wanted.
Then I started studying science and the brain to figure out why.
So I don't want you worrying about it. They, in all likely hood, experienced what they envision as hell because they are obsessed by the idea, and their subconscious gave it to them. Doesn't mean there's a real hell. Just like reaching a state of just knowing/understanding doesn't actually give anything but that feeling. You don't actually know any more than you did before. Which is one reason I started to wonder if any of my spiritual experiences were real.
Think about it: Is it likely every person with mental illness is experiencing reality? Clearly not. The brain is an amazing thing. It can give you any experience you want, and many you don't.
Moral Man on October 10, 2020:
Other religions also believe in a hell in the afterlife. What are we to make of people who have had near death experiences and have claimed to have seen hell? This really scares me. Authors Bill Wiese and Mary Baxter are two such people. What they have written about the horrors of hell is scarier than any horror movie. Its intended to scare to bring people to Christianity.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on October 10, 2020:
Hell was not in the old testament. It's something Christianity added to the story. It comes from the idea of the underworld from Greek and Roman myth.
The Gnostics also followed Jesus but they didn't think the Christian god was god. The devil created/inherited earth and rules it. Jesus was a prophet of the real god who is supposedly a nice guy but has little to do with all this.
The Cannanites, who were Hebrew and where the tribes of Israel came from became enemies because the Cannanites believed in many gods and claimed the Israeli god was thrown out of heaven for claiming he was the only god. Sound familiar?
The devil played very little part in Judaism. Satan is not a devil. It's a title. The word in Hebrew means an angel who watches man for god and rats us out to him. The watchers are all Satans.
The myth is, those were the angels who mated human females and created giants who god later wiped out in the great flood.
No mention of hell or a devil anywhere until Christianity. .
To me there's always been a problem with believing in god. When I was small I believed and even wanted to be a priest. Then when I was 6 a friend told me he was protestant. It blew me away. I was Catholic. I didn't know there were other religions. How? One god, one religion, right?
So I asked my mother why? She told me there were lots of religions. So I wanted to know who was right. She said we had faith that we were. Faith?..... You mean no one knows? So I vowed I'd figure it out before I died. I also stopped believing. You can't find truth if you already think you know what it is.
So I studied all religions, history, philosophy and science. And what I found was that there is no evidence a god or gods exists and no evidence none of them exist.
As a philosopher and scientist, that means believing in them or not believing is just a wild guess either way. No one knows and no one can know. No way to test for it.
Because all the religions are contradictory it suggests imagination, not fact. And we know a lot of politics were involved. And again, due to neurology and Buddhism we know the brain can be trained to give you any experience you want. Even living in Middle earth for a few minutes and feeling like it's real.
So again, I doubt that any of it is true because no one can know anything about the gods should any exist. It's all just models to try to explain all this.
Don't worry about it.
Moral Man on October 09, 2020:
Authors Bill Wiese and Mary Baxter have claimed that they have seen visions of hell. Are they telling the truth or lying? Was it just hallucination or dreaming? Or maybe it could be mischievous spirits playing tricks on their minds.
Calvinists and Fundamentalist Christians believe that the majority of people who have ever lived are doomed to hell. If there are 7 billion people living on earth today, at least 6.5 billion to 6.9 billion of these people will die unsaved. They also claim that many Christians will end up in hell for things like not putting God and Jesus first in their lives, or for choosing the wrong church or for failing to correctly interpret the Bible, or because they didnt believe the entire Bible, etc.
What are we to make of this belief in hell? Torture that goes on forever. Cruelty and sadism on steroids.Everyday I live with this fear.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on September 27, 2020:
Moral Man: Exactly so. The only way it could be forgiven is if it had no choice in creating things and no choice in how it was created. Like the totality is in turmoil and creation of this came about as a way to solve problems by trying every possibility under differant conditions.
Chaos breeds order, eventually. Chaos theory tells us the simple becomes the complex by following simple rules under varying diverse conditions.
So again, I hope there is no god. Then its just the way it is, and its up to us to find answers and make it a better world for everything. No one else will.
Moral Man on September 26, 2020:
This God is spiteful and full of malice. He hardens peoples hearts so He can punish them without mercy. Its a deity who cant see sin and who cant see the evil in His own cruelty. Its mentally blind and morally blind, a hypocrite. The Jews are smarter or at least more honest and more realistic when describing this God.
Its a remote, aloof God. When theres a serious crisis in our lives, He becomes more remote and aloof, and if we think He is cruel, then He becomes even more remote, to totally disconnected. Instead of proving us wrong, He becomes more spiteful, and He proves us right when we say He is cruel. Spitefulness is another one of His many unpleasant attributes, a true Jekyll and Hyde. Theres no way this is an all good being.
In the immeasurably long meantime, both humans and animals suffer and die.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on September 25, 2020:
Yup. It's amazing, isn't it? If there is a Christian style god, it's clear that it's a tyrant egomaniac. The Jews had no delusions. Their god was both good and evil, but sinse it was the only game in town, you did what it wanted or you suffered. Just like a human dictator.
But Christianity trys to tell us it's all good, when it's self evident that it couldn't be were it real. That's faith for you.
Moral Man on September 24, 2020:
The existence of Natural evil is the greatest objection to Christian faith in my view. If God knew that by either creating or by allowing such horrors as cancer, ebola, tsunamis that these things would lead to agnosticism, atheism, misotheism, heresy, apostasy, and blasphemy, then its even more wrong to create it and even more wrong to allow it. So if Im a heretic or an apostate because Im angry and disgusted by cancer, centipedes, and the coronavirus, tand my faith becomes shattered as a result, then this God throws me into hell. He has NO RIGHT to throw me or anybody else in hell because we lost our faith as a result of being angered by the existence of Natural evil, especially if its His fault and He created these horrible things.
Hell is going to be hotter than an oven where souls will be burning forever like charcoals and tortured in other ways as well. Even if one made it into heaven, theres still a very high chance that at least one loved one didnt make it into heaven and instead is in hell. So how could I possibly be happy in heaven if either my parents arent there? Theologians and preachers say that either 1) those in heaven will forget their loved ones who didnt make it into heaven or 2) those in heaven will remember their loved ones and will just calmly accept that they arent there and are instead burning in hell. So in heaven we either have amnesia or we lose the ability to care for our loved ones who are in hell. Either way this is demented and offensive. Please say it isnt so. Isnt there a better way to arrange for the afterlife than this? There should be more than just either heaven or hell as an afterlife. There should be AT LEAaST one other possibility such as Limbo where people can go to in the afterlife.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on September 07, 2020:
Moral Man, I couldn't agree more.
Moral Man on September 07, 2020:
Its regrettable that I feel that atheism is infinitely preferrable to belief, because the world is such a colossal screwup that a conscious screator God who made it this way and who allows it to remain this way is unfit to worship, undeserving of worship, unworthy of worship, and un meant to worship. Better such a screwup for a God doesnt exist, especially if its the Fundamentalist God and Calvinist God! which to me are predominantly evil and insane hypocrites.
M8l, mildew, vermin, execrement, birth defects, miscarriages, ticks, m8squitoes, stroke, aneurysm, heart disease, cancer, tooth decay, stonefish, widow spiders are all embarrassing examples of creation, and I dont want to worship any being who would create such horrible things. These are all sins and crimes of the creator, which He is unable to see because He'-s a blind hypocrite.. Mold and mildew is not intelligent, benevolent design, but rather stupid and malevolent design.
Fundies believe that billions of people are headed to hell. That makes death more scary and more dangerous.Im literally losing sleep and living in fear of ending up in hell, because I have committed the sins of blasphemy, heresy, and apostasy, my punishment in hell will be greater. The heat will be turned to the max for me. How is this a God of love and mercy? There are very good and very valid reasons why a person becomes a blasphemer, heretic, and apostastate, and the existence of Natural evils such as mold, mildew, and cancer are among the reasons why. But that makes no difference to this Fundie God. He doesnt care what our reasons are, nor does He care that He is to blame for why people become blasphemers, heretics, and apostates. He DRIVES us to to these things with His cruelty, carelessness, negligence. He cannot see sin in the suffering and evil He allows, and this coronavirus plague is the latest example of His cruelty.
As if being burned in fire forever wasnt sufficient punishment, there are other forms of torture in hell as well, such as worms, a sewer like stench, giant snakes and giant spiders, demonic monsters mutlating and slicing people, suffocation or inability to breathe, and being buried alive inside a claustrophobic, furnace like, coffin like environment, according to the demented preacher, David J. Stewart. Imagine being locked inside a claustrophobic coffin, vault, furnace, closet, crawlspace forever. Just a few minutes of this torture would have me raving, whereas in hell this torture will continue forever. This is so monumentally, unimaginably cruel th3 human mind cannot even grasp it Atheism is infinitely preferrable.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on April 17, 2020:
Thanks for the comments,
Moral Man on April 14, 2020:
This deity is a narcicisst without any doubt, and its one of His trademarks, just as cruelty, carelessness, negligence, incompetence, irrationality, insanity, stupidity, irresponsibleness, mental blindness, moral blindness, confusion, contradiction, and hypocrisy are all trademarks. Unreasonableness, unfairness, being unforgiving, violence, bloodthirstiness, villeness, vanity, egomania, and megalomania are also His trademarks, as is spitefulness, malice, and malevolence, but the worst of His attributes is cruelty. Alot of the same negative, horrible characteristics which we attribute to Satan or the Devil is found in this Fundamentalist God. The Fundie God and Satan might be enemies, but they also seem to have alot in common with eachother. All these similarities should disturb and embarrass believers.
Hypocrisy is one of His biggest attributes. This God supposedly hates violence and killing and yet He inflicts violence and killing throughout much of the Bible, and He sanctions and instigates war and genocide and animal sacrifice. If thats not disturbing enough and not embarrassing enough, the Nature He created has violence and killing galore from predation, hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, lightning strikes, tornadoes, sharks, crocodiles, and theres violence and killing on a physically smaller scale with Insects, spiders, scorpions, Arachnids, and Centipedes.
We are expected to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, and forgive our enemies seventy times seven, but what do God and Jesus do with their enemies? Thrown into hell after they die to be tortured forever. Its not just atheistts, heretics, apostates, blasphemers, misotheists who will end up in hell, but also many Christians who failed to believe in the entire Bible, and who failed to correctly interpret the Bible, and who failed to belong to the true church, and who failed to put God and Jesus first in their lives are all doomed to hell according to Fundie Christians and Calvinists. This is utter blatant hypocrisy.
This deity we worship cant do much of anything right. He bungled with humans, He bungled with our bodies, He bungled with our brains, He bungled with our free will, He bungled with Nature, He bungled with the animal kingdom, He bungled with the plant kingdom, He bungled with the climate and weather, He bungled with the elements, (poisons and carcinogens),He bungled with the angels (Satan and demons), and He bungled trying to get His message across, resulting in numerous conflicting, contradictory religions, mass division, and mass confusion. Christianity is so splintered and fragmented there are 30,000 different denominations! I cannot even imagine how this could happen. This is flabbergasting. Christianity and the Bible has caused centuries of mass division and mass confusion. Its beyond embarrassing. Why cant this God make Himself clear? Why cant He communicate in a clear manner for all to understand? Why does He keep contradicting Himself? Why wont He answer our questions? Why does He keep silent and secret? Why allow us to endlessly argue, speculate, and agonize? Why allow us to live in endless confusion, suspense, ignorance, anxiety, apprehension, and fear?
On top of all the horrific diseases theres now this Corona virus which is infectious and has spread at a terrifying speed and has disrupted the lives of countless people. Is this love and mercifulness? No, obviously not.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on November 03, 2017:
Thank the dog it probably doesn't exist. ;) But if it did, I can't disagree with you.
Chuck Fasst from Portland, Oregon on October 30, 2017:
What you are describing here is a Narcissist. A straight up evil, cruel, manipulative, malignant, disordered entity. Perhaps he is the greatest N of all time and space. Everything described here are text book Narcissist traits. That means he is wrapped in mystery and deception. Those of us with knowledge of the world of Narcissism can see all of this clearly. When is the last time anyone saw the guy anyway?
And so here is the rub ... what does the Narcisisst do once he becomes tired of playing with his victim? Righto - the victim gets discarded. Does not bide well for the future of mankind, eh?
And The Truth Is on February 21, 2017:
God is a real evil scumbag for Not giving me a good wife and family that i always wanted since he did give it to so many Billions of other people in this world. Why in the world do us good men have to suffer for his mistakes anyway? But then again look at the real low life loser pathetic women that we now have out there nowadays that are very much to Blame as well since he created them.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on May 27, 2016:
He couldn't do it without permission from god. So who's the evil one? lol...
Paul Cummings on May 12, 2016:
Cruelty?......I just figure the Devil does a lot of advertising.
Larry Rankin from Oklahoma on July 08, 2015:
Great hub! Very thought provoking.
Moral Man on March 10, 2015:
I live in endless grief. The death and loss of my beloved mother from a stroke has been devastating. My life is ruined. My mother was the most important person in my life who I love more than anyone else. We had a very strong love and bond. She was a kind hearted loving person. I have been crying for three weeks now. The grief is intense. Theres a horrible sunken feeling in my heart. She was my support who gave me unconditional love despite my flaws and mental illness and mental disability. Im all alone in the house. The void is painful. Im a mentally tormented man with depression, loneliness, OCD, mental illness, and Im afflicted with nightmares for years. Intense prolonged grief and sadness can make a person more vulnerable to heart disease, stroke, and cancer. The sadness I feel defies description. Disease ruins and destroys lives and snatches away our loved ones. Stroke is one of the cruelest, most horrible diseases which either a sick God created or which the Devil created. Disease is a crime and the creator of diseases is a criminal. It just doesnt make sense for a loving God to allow such horrors as stroke, aneurysm, heart disease, malaria,etc.
Religious folks say that we're not to blame God for disease, but rather blame should go to the Devil or Satan and demons. Well who created these evil beings, and why are these evil beings allowed to corrupt, torment, and ruin God's creation? I cant get a good answer to this question. In the Bible, the only place where Satan inflicts disease and physical torture and death is in Job, and even here it was under God's permission. In the bulk of the Bible, God is the one inflicting disease, torture, killing, and death, and God is said to have created all things and not Satan and demons. Some believe that God's originally good creation was corrupted and ruined when Satan and demons entered the picture, long before humanity or long before Adam and Eve's sin. If thats true the question still remains, why did God allow these evil beings to tamper, corrupt, and ruin His creation?
Gnostics believe in at least two Gods. The creator of this flawed, screwed up world is known as the Demiurge and also known as Ialdabaoth. This inferior deity was created by a feminine being known as Sophia. The Demiurge is an incompetent, insane, immoral, amoral being with a Jekyll and Hyde personality as can be seen in the Nature He created and as can be seen in the human beings He created. Its a being of contrasts and contradictions, a being who is both good and evil and whose intelligence goes hand in hand with His stupidity. The Demiurge or Ialdabaoth is equated with Yahweh of the Bible. The good God of Gnosticism is said to be remote and weak and unable to help us. Gnostic religion goes under the category of Dualism. Dualism has a good God who is wise but weak, while Monism has a powerful God who is cruel, insane, and stupid. Either way, its a deficient God, and either way the creation is screwed and ruined, and either way its a victory for the Devil.
Diseases are an inexecusable evil. Whoever or whatever created diseases is the worst type of criminal. The world is a hellhole and horror movie ruled by the Devil and not by a loving God.
Moral Man on March 09, 2015:
The Fundamentalist Christian God is more cruel than a human csn imagine. Its a God so monumentally, unimaginably, immeasurably cruel it defies description. Any being who would create, or cause, or even allow all of the world's Natural evils and all of the world's human evil and sin, and allow millions of years of suffering, death, and extinctions, is a monster and criminal worse than Hitler.Horrors such as stonefish( a venomous fish with an unimaginably painful sting which causes its victims to scream and writhe in agony) ebola, malaria, heart disease, stroke, aneurysm, migraine headache, tooth decay, birth defects, mental retardation, physical deformities, miscarriages, hurricanes, tsunamis, mass starvation, candiru fish, the guinea worm, alzheimers, aging, and death is a criminal, incompetent screwup, insane lunatic, and idiot. Immoral, amoral scum. Mentally blind, morally blind. How about old people who go to the bathroom on the floor because the creator gave us such flawed bodies and brains. Its criminally embarrassing.
The Bible God has shown more cruelty and has caused and created more suffering to His creation all because two ancient humans ate a forbidden fruit which He orchestrated for them to eat. So human nature became sinful and evil and Natural evil, suffering and death all appeared because of Adam and Eve's sin. What kind of sick, disturbed God trashes and ruins His entire creation for the sin of two people? Its unfair, unwise, irrational, insane, unreasoning, stupid, irresponsible, and CRUEL to the umpteenth degree. A clam has more sense than this God.
This sick God killed David's baby for David's sin. Does this make sense? With a God like Yahweh, who needs a Devil? With a God like this, who needs enemies? As I said before, this God has a Jekyll and Hyde personality, and the Mr. Hyde in Him has been working overtime in making the world the miserable sack of crap that it is.
All these different religions to choose and confuse and all these different versions of Christianity to choose and confuse, and if we choose wrong then its hell. The Bible has caused centuries of disagreement, division, and confusion. Its a pitiful execuse for a God who cant even communicate with us humans in a clear manner. Is there a bigger screwup than this God?
Authors Mary Baxter, Bill Wiese, David J. Stewart, and Terry Watkins are all Fundamentalist Christians who believe that billions of people are headed to hell. The tortures in hell are fire, worms, a sewer like stench, giant spiders and giant snakes, suffocation or inability to breathe, being sliced and mutilated by demons, and being buried alive inside a claustrophobic, coffin like environment. See David J. Stewart's disgusting site:Buried Alive, the horrifying reality of hell. Imagine being buried alive inside a closed coffin forever and burning in fire at the same time. This is criminal cruelty vastly infinitely worse than any horror movie. What kind of monster inflicts such tortures? What kind of criminal does this? Absolutely monstrous, inhuman, sadistic,diabolical, fiendish, malevolent cruelty and horror beyond my worst nightmare. Theres a difference between just punishment for sin and unimaginable monstrous, sadistic, inhuman cruelty, torture, and horror, and this God doesnt know the difference. This God CANNOT see sin in His monstrously cruel, inhumane, disgusting punishments, and He cannot see sin in His cruelty and negligence, and He cannot see sin in the suffering and evil He ALLOWS.
Recently my beloved mother died of a stroke. She had another stroke six years ago and suffered from migraine headache since 1986 or 1987. Thats 28 or 29 years of immense suffering. I love my mother. She was a kind hearted person. Im all alone in the house. My life is grief. Why did God allow this? Cruel and unfair is this God. This God has no heart, no pity, no mercy, no morals, and no conscience. This God has no reasoning and no common sense. I also believe He is insane. This pitiful execuse for a God is unfit to worship and unfit to judge us. Both God and Satan are immoral, amoral criminals. Neither one is fit to worship. I live in endless fear of what may happen to me after I die. If Satan and demons are to blame, why then does God allow these evil beings to corrupt and ruin His creation? I live in endless fear.
Anonymous on February 13, 2015:
I meant he's the scum of the earth.
Anonymous on February 13, 2015:
I agree, God is one cruel bastard. He made sin, predestined the fall of man, has an elect (look that up), and predestines people to hell for his glory. He also is a sexist pig that cares more about his glory than anything. He's sadistic, selfish, heartless, and very evil. He is the suck of the earth.
anonymous on June 29, 2014:
I heard that the christian god predestined the fall of man for his glory. I mean, why else did god put the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden? If you read the bible, it says that god predestines some people to hell. Good killed 70,000 jews just because David took a census of the people. Not to mention that god has an elect (look that up). I read a testimony. God prostituted a child molesters grown up real daughters instead of the child molester himself because he sexually abused his adoptive daughter. The chritian god killed Aaron's sons for his glory for offering strange for before the Lord. Sounds like a cruel, evil tyrant to me!
anonymous on November 06, 2013:
I got cut off by the computer. I fear that I will end up in hell. Ive been suffering from nightmares for the last 23 years. The movie Beyond the Door from 1974 starring Juliet Mills and Richard Johnson illustrates that the Devil and evil rules the world and not a loving God. As a result of a Satanic ritual, a San Francisco woman becomes demonically possessed. Richard Johnson is a satanist who is suspended in time and who in the end dies in a car accident as his car falls off a cliff into San Francisco Bay to his death and damnation. The Devil taunts him in a voiceover throughout the movie. The major characters suffer from the demonic possession and God is absent and doesnt intervene as in real life. Theres a feeling of vulnerability and utter helplessness. This movie illustrates that the Devil and demons are real and that people are helpless against them. The world is a quagmire of evil. The real world is a horror movie directed and ruled by the Devil. I live in endless fear. My life is loneliness, depression, mental torment, and fear.
anonymous on November 06, 2013:
I believe that the Bible God or God has a mental short circuit and is unable to understand the cruelty, the wrong, the immorality, the insanity, and stupidity of what He allows such as allowing diseases, mass starvation, pollution, grievous accidents, and human crimes and sins. It just doesnt seem to occur to this God that He ought to intervene and start helping and start healing this nightmarish world. Things arent going to heal by itself and human nature isnt going to heal by itself. God has to heal it or there is no hope. I complain to this God as have other people but the message is just not sinking in. Its just not registering. This is what I mean by God being mentally blind and morally blind and insane. Eldritch Abomination describes this God. This God is similar to Chtulu, Zeus, Poseidon, Shiva, and Kali. Partly evil, insane, immoral, amoral, violent, bloodthirsty, cruel. A God who creates evil and suffering or who allows it for thousands to millions of years is an Eldritch Abomination or moral monstrosity. This God is just not right in the head. Or this God isnt in control of what's going on in the world. The Devil and evil rules the world. A loving wise God does not. I have to believe in Jesus and I have to love this God. Otherwise its an eternal torture chamber in hell. Its a scary God we worship. I have more fear than love for this God. I suggest everyone to accept Jesus Christ as saviour and to obey this Bible God. We must make an effort to save our souls. I continue to live in fear. I fear that
anonymous on November 03, 2013:
The Bible God is certifiably insane. It took Him 400 years to free the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. What took Him so long to intervene for His chosen people? Remember that this was in Biblical times when God was supposedly intervening and interacting and performing so many "miracles" for people. Even in Biblical times, God was silent, hidden, and absent. And alot of God's intervening in Biblical times was inflicting cruel plagues on people and animals. If thats divine intervention, then I dont want it. And alot of God's interacting and communicating in Biblical times was in giving tedious, boring, and disgusting instructions on how to sacrifice animals and how to drain their blood and grain sacrifices. Its cruel, disgusting, insane, pointless, and utterly devoid of morality and utterly devoid of wisdom. What does gory bloody rituals and sacrifices have to do with being moral and good? Why do innocent animals have to be slaughtered for the sins of human beings? Does God enjoy the sight and smell of animals being slaughtered and burned? Its a sick God we have. When this mentally challenged and morally challenged God finally decides to free the Israelites from slavery in Egypt after 400 years had elapsed, He does it in a cruel, immoral, irrational, insane, stupid, destructive manner. He hardens Pharaoh's heart and sends plague after plague on the Egyptian population. God takes His anger out on civilians and women and children and domestic animals. Instead of just punishing Pharaoh and the slave drivers, this irrational, insane, cruel, spiteful God decides to torture everybody else including innocent animals. This is how the Bible God behaves. He punishes large numbers of people for the sins of a single person and He punishes innocent animals. No common sense and no reasoning. He just blindly, indiscriminately, recklessly stupidly punishes. It doesnt make any difference to Him if innocent people and innocent animals fall victim. Utterly ruthless. And if this God was so much against slavery, then why does He sanction slavery? So its ok for the Israelites to engage in slavery among themselves and its only wrong if another group of people impose slavery on the Israelites. Slavery should be wrong and should be banned no matter who is doing it. More bungling, incompetence, negligence, irrationality, insanity, cruelty and stupidity continues as the Israelites wander the wilderness and thousands are killed by God just for complaining. With a God as cruel and as insane and as incompetent as Yahweh, who needs enemies? It never ceases to amaze me how religious folks praise this God despite everything that happens. Whether its famine, starvation, a natural disaster, a manmade disaster, a crime, an accident, a death, religious folks praise this God who allows all these horrors. This is dementia. This God created more mouths than He can feed and He has no moral obligation to provide for His creatures. Yet people love Him, praise Him, and worship Him.
anonymous on November 02, 2013:
Religious folks defend the Bible God's cruelty by saying He's punishing human sin. I've written many times how monstrously cruel, inhumane, excessive, disproportionate, and inappropriate are His punishments. Punishing the entire creation for the sin of two people. Adam and Eve is cruel and disgusting, punishing or killing 70, 000 men just because David took a census, killing thousands of people for rouching or peeking inside the Ark of the Covenant is cruel and disgusting, threatening people with turning into cannibals is cruel and disgusting, and punishing animals for the sins of human beings is cruel and disgusting. God orders that the horses of the Israelites enemies be hamstringed. This is cruel, disgusting, sick, insane, and inhumane. Peta would be outraged by such cruelty and rightfully so. What sins did the horses commit? Why punish innocent animals for the sins of human beings? Because this God is an irrational, insane, unreasoning cruel monster thats why. He just blindly indiscriminately stupidly punishes. This Bible God punishes the whole world for the sin of two people, Adam and Eve, punishes children for the sins of their parents, punishes parents for the sins of their children, punishes animals for the sins of human beings, punishes the entire community for the sin of a single person. In at least one case, God decides to kill a baby for the sins of adults. Its sick. God kills Uzzah for touching or for catching the Ark of the Covenant as it fell. Its SICK. What should Uzzah have done? Allowed it to fall and possibly break? Knowing what a sick, insane, cruel God this is, He would have killed or punished Uzzah whether Uzzah touched the Ark or let it fall. This God just punishes punishes punishes and His punishements are monstrously cruel inhumane and overkill. Christian apologists argue that the Ark of the Covenant was being transported by the Israelites in the wrong manner and this offended God. How heavy was the Ark of the Covenant? How many hours and how many days and how many miles did the Israelites have to carry it in a sweltering wilderness and desert? If they transported it improperly then maybe fatigue, physical weakness, or physical exhaustion are to blame. Does the Bible God understand this? All this egomaniacal, tyrannical, narcicisstic, selfish, self centered monstrous God care about is for people to worship Him and keep His numerous commandments. This God saves His chosen people from the tortures of slavery in Egypt and then tortures them by having them hike for many miles in a sweltering wilderness and desert with no air conditioning and no heating with thirst, starvation, venomous snakes, centipedes, scorpions, and lethal Insects. He kills thousands of His people in the wilderness just for complaining. He punishes and kills people for being weak humans. If just a single person commmits just a single sin, then thats an execuse for this monstrous insane God to punish the entire community. The Bible God is a cruel insane monster.
anonymous on November 02, 2013:
The Bible God has a split personality or a bipolar personality. He is the original Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with more contradictions within Him than Charles Manson. He supposedly hates human sin and evil and yet He engages in all manner of sin and evil in the Bible and in the Nature He created. Not only is He a cruel monster but He's a hypocrite. Violence, killing, stealing or pillaging or looting, cannibalism, rape, sloth or laziness, gluttony or overeating, and lust and fornication and adultery are all evil and sinful in His eyes and yet this God indulges in violence and killing in the Bible to punish human sin and He threatens people with turning to cannibalism and mothers shall eat their babies and threatens people with having their property stolen or looted or pillaged and threatens people with having their women raped. And the Nature He created is full of violence and killing and cannibalism. There are many animals who are gluttonous and one animal is so synonymous with laziness or sloth its been given the name of Sloth, and fornication is common in the animal kingdom. God Himself is slothful and lazy if He neglects to provide for the needs of His creatures and allows mass starvation, loneliness, pollution, diseases, birth defects, etc. So this Bible God is a hypocrite who does what He forbids and who forbids what He does, and He creates what He forbids and He forbids what He creates. Its a mentally incomprehensible, morally conflicting, confusing, morally impossible God we are stuck with folks. Christians defend this God by saying that His cruel behavior is punishment for human sin. Im not buying that. If this God was so much against violence, killing, stealing, cannibalism, rape, fornication, sloth, gluttony,etc then He would not in any circumstances be inflicting these evils on people just to teach them a lesson. This is a sick immoral cruel disgusting stupid ways to punish human sin. This God engages in monstrous inhuman cruelty and engages in overkill to make a point. If violence and killing are so evil and sinful in human beings then why would God create so much violence and killing in Nature and the animal kingdom? Yes I know the reason why. Free will and punishment for Adam and Eve's sin. Ive written many times how unfair, cruel, irrational, insane, immature, childish, and stupid this is. This is asinine behavior. I'll say it again. This God needs to grow up for a change. He has no common sense and He has no reasoning whatsoever. He's a psychopath with no conscience. So everything hangs in the balance of free will and Adam and Eve's sin. So the entire creation including Nature and the natural world and all of humanity hangs in the balance of free will and Adam and Eve's sin. Can someone say insane? This is the earmark of insanity and the earmark of stupidity. This God is just not right in the head. This God needs psychiatric counseling. This God can only create according to free will and Adam and Eve's sin. How good or how horrible the world is entirely dependent on free will and Adam and Eve's sin. So if Adam and Eve use their free will properly and dont sin, the world coukd remain a paradise and peaceable kingdom. But if Adam and Eve misuse their free will and sin, which is sadly the case, then all creation has to be corrupted, ruined, spoiled, poisoned, trashed, cursed, punished and the world has to be the miserable hellhole that it is. If God wants people to be perfect and sinless then why didnt He create us that way? How can He expect perfection and sinlessness from naturally imperfect, sinful creatures? Why allow Adam and Eve's sin to be passed on to all future unborn humans? Thats unfair and stupid. Every person should have a fresh clean slate and NOT have to be born tainted by sin from Adam and Eve. And WHY spoil, ruin, curse and punish the enrire world for Adam and Eve's sin? Why corrupt the animal kingdom and the plant kingdom for Adam and Eve's sin? Why punish innocent animals for Adam and Eve's sin? Why ruin the world's weather and climate because of Adam and Eve's sin? Why ask an intellligent question to an unintelligent God?Why ask a rational question to an irrational God? Why ask a sane question to an insane God?Why ask a responsible question to an irresponsible God? Why ask a moral question to an immoral, amoral God? Why ask a reasonable question to an unreasoning God? And this God is going to torture billions of people forever in the next life in unimaginably monstrous horrific ways. We worship a monster dear Christians. Bleak and hopeless. This God wont help me get a single girlfriend and allows me to suffer from endless loneliness. This God Himself is a sinner. He is guilty of negligence, carelessness, cruelty. Dereliction of duty. Deadbeat. Absentee landlord. This God couldnt heal this ruinous world in a billion years. This God is a screwup and a failure. The Devil rules the world. A loving wise God does not.
anonymous on October 29, 2013:
According to the sick, disgusting book of Mary Baxter, Jesus will scold all those sinners who are being tortured in hell. Witchcraft, adultery, fornication, failure to believe the entire Bible word for word, failure to put God and Jesus first in one's life, failure to belong to the true church(if there is such a thing), failure to correctly interpret the Bible( its impossible to interpret such a book with so much vagueness, ambiguity, and contradictions), for being gay, for being angry at God and insulting God, of which Im guilty of, and for failing to keep all the commandments of which there are so many and so contradictory, are all deserving to be tortured forever. Mary Baxter's so called "loving, gentle, forgiving, prince of peace, and turn the other cheek and love your enemies" Jesus will go up to each damned person as they are being tortured and scold them. Jesus will rub it in their faces by saying,"See, this is what happens when you disbelieve in me. See, now look what happens when you dont put God and me first in your life. You were warned but you didnt listen while you were on earth. Its too late now." Wow. Isnt this heartwarming?(sarcasm). What a "loving" "forgiving" Jesus and God this is. Yes Im being sarcastic. So God 's forgiveness has an expiration date. It wont matter how much the damned in hell repent. Its too late. If God wanted everyone to be saved then He would have made it possible to do so. Instead, look what He has done. First of all, He creates or He allows humans to have a sinful, evil nature inherited or passd on by Adam and Eve's sin. This is unjust and stupid and insane. He allows Satan and demons to corrupt people which is more insanity and stupidity. Then His message which is the Bible is a hopeless morass of ambiguity, vagueness and contradictions which has caused mass disagreement, division and confusion for centuries. Thirdly, He abandons us in a cruel, dangerous screwed up world. So people have a sinful nature with flawed brains snd flawed bodies and Nature or the natural world is full of flaws defects and cruelties and His message which is the Bible and Christianity is a a contradictory confusing mess. What Im trying to say is that this is unbelievable incompetence for a God and this God has set humanity up for failure and He has set Himself up to be rejected. This experiment with free will, Satan, and Adam and Eve was and is a grievous error, disaster, tragedy, travesty. It has ruined human nature, it has ruined Nature or the natural world, it has ruined God's relationship with the angels(one third of the angels rebelled including Satan) and it has resulted in sn eternal hell for the next life as well as a temporary hell for this earthly life. Can a God be a bigger screw up than this Bible God? This God cant do much of anything right. Its incredibly stupid for a God to commuincate His message to only a very few select people throughout history such as Moses and the unknown authors who wrote the Gospels and to give each person a different, conflicting, contradictory revelation. Why wont this God communicate with all people in a clear manner for all to understand? Why just reveal yourself to some unknown authors from the Bronze Age in the Middle East? Why wont He reveal Himself today to all people? Why does this God keep changing His mind from one person to another? There are so many contradictions in the Bible and within Cbristianity its not even funny. This is incompetence and failure. The Bible has caused mass disagreement, division and confusion and so salvation becomes an enie meenie minie mo guessing game. If one guessed wrong then its hell. If one failed to correctly interpret the Bible and failed to belong to the true church then its hell. Mary Baxter's Jesus will rub it in the faces of those souls being tortured in hell. He will not forgive them and he will have no mercy. Us humans are told by God and Jesus to love our enemies and to forgive our enemies seventy times seven and to turn the other cheek but God wont do the same. This God will torture people forever for disbelieving Him and will torture people forever for calling someone a fool. If He really wans everyone to be saved, then He would or should be able to communicate with all of us in a clear manner on what we are to believe and how we are to live. Why continue allowing mass division and mass confusion within Christianity especially when our eternal souls are at stake? Why does He continue to hide? Why does He continue to allow us to remain in our sinfulness? Human nature isnt going to heal by itself. God has to heal our hearts and heal our minds. And Nature with its defects and cruelties isnt going to heal by itself. God has to heal it. Enough with free will and enough with Adam and Eve's sin. Grow up God. It doesnt seem like He wants everyone to be saved. And if the mass of humanity is doomed to hell in the next life then this is a win for Satan and Jesus's mission to save us was and is largely a failure. This God is a failure. Hopeless. Absolutely hopeless. This God is a lost cause.
anonymous on October 27, 2013:
I made a typo error in the above comment. I misspelled the name of Bill Wiese. His disgusting book, 23 Minutes in Hell, is available in bookstores. He worships a cruel God and doesnt know it. Fundamentalists worship a cruel God.
anonymous on October 27, 2013:
I live in endless fear and dread of hell. People such as Mary Baxter, Bikl Wiese, and David J. Stewart claim that among the tortures of hell are being burned forever in fire, being tortured by worms, being tortured by suffocation or the inability to breathe, being tortured by being buried alive forever in a claustrophobic environment, being tortured by an excrement like smell or sewer like smell, and being tortured, sliced, and mutilated by demons and demonic monsters and by Satan. The tortures last forever. The sick preacher David J. Stewart claims that the horrific fate of being buried alive is one of the tortures God will inflict to those in hell. Imagine that. To be buried alive FOREVER in a claustrophobic environment while being burned by fire at the same time. Is this a God of love and mercy? No this is a cruel, sadistic, malevolent, fiendish, insane psychopathic monster whose cruelty is worse than Hitler, Stalin, Bundy and Gacy. This is vastly, infinitely worse than any horror movie. Absolutely monstrous, disgusting, inhuman cruelty the likes of which cannot be described by any words. Unimaginable cruelty and horror. Its horrific beyond imagining. Its beyond monstrous. Its beyond sick. Its beyond insanity. Its beyond stupidity. Its beyond horrible. I cannot imagine a God being any more evil than this. Being buried alive is among the worst forms of torture with claustrophobia and suffocation. Just a few minutes of this kind of torture would have me raging and raving. This monstrous God is going to inflict this monstrous torture FOREVER to those in hell. Being engulfed in fire for just a few seconds is bad enough but God is going to inflict this torture FOREVER to those in hell. Im going to end up in a mental hospital from fear. We worship a nasty, cruel, insane monster. We worship evil. And who is going to hell? According to the Bible and according to Fundamentalist Christians, the majority of humans are doomed to this unimaginably horrific fate for one reason or the other. Why does God create billions of people who He knows will end up in hell? Why allow billions of people to be born when He knows they will end up in hell? Why conduct this cruel, immoral, insane, destructive experiment with free will and Adam and Eve when its going to result in an eternal hell for the next life for billions of people and a temporary hell for this earthly life with all the evil and suffering that goes on? This is not love and mercifulness. This is insanity, irrationality, spitefulness, stupidity, irresponsibleness, carelessness, laziness, negligence, incompetence, malevolence, immorality, and most of all, cruelty. He is cruel to the UMPTEENTH DEGREE. This God needs psychiatric counseling. He has no pity and no conscience. He has no common sense and He has no reasoning. He has no intelligent, constructive, humane solutions to offer us. He allows us to remain in our sinfulness. He allows Satan and demons to tamper with the creation and to spoil the creation and to corrupt human beings. Al He knows how to do is PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH. He cannot manage His creation in a merciful, humane, intelligent, comstructive manner. Rampant sin, cruelty, negligence, incompetence, stupidity, insanity, and destructiveness are His ways and part of His unknowable divine plan which us humans dont know and dont understand. His unknowable divine plan SUCKS. Why wont He tell us what this unknowable divine plan is? Why keep silent and secret about it? And of course Hes still angry and punishing the entire creation for the sin of two people, Adam and Eve. How stupid. How insane. How unjust. How cruel. This God has no common sense and has no reasoning and I'll say it again. This God needs to grow up for a change. Eldritch Abomination describes this Bible God. I live in endless fear. The world is a horror movie ruled by the Devil and evil. A loving wise God cannot be in control of what's going on in this hellhole for a world. I continue having nightmares. The real world is a nightmare and a horror movie. I fear what may happen to me after I die.
anonymous on October 17, 2013:
Some people keep amulets or pieces of statues of Pazuzu as protection from other demons. The Pazuzu statue shown in the Northern Iraq prologue in the 1973 movie The Exorcist is a bipedal monstrosity with two pairs of wings, clawed feet, a face somewhat resembling a lion, a tail, and one hand is held up and the other hand is held down. Remember that the possession was caused by the girl meddling with an ouija board which are said to be dangerous. Ouija boards and other forms of the occult are no joke. Its no childrens game.An ouija board is one of the doorways to evil or demonic entities to enter this world. Instead of contacting a dead relative, one may end up contacting a non-human, demonic, evil entity from another dimension. At first the demon in The Exorcist silently communicated with Regan and introduced itself as Captain Howdy. A silly childish name which is almost certainly not its real name. Almost from the start the demon was nasty even before possessing the girl. First there were scratching noises in the attic which are a sign of demonic infestation. In one restored scene the mother goes to the attic with a candle and the unseen demon causes the flame to grow tenfold to frighten her. It doesnt take long for the demon to fully possess her mind and body and to cause carnage. How do the events in Northern Iraq connect with the demonic possession in George town Washington D.C. ? The Exorcist novel and the movie based on it are interesting. Exorcist 2 the Heretic and Exorcist 3-Legion are also interesting which are the two sequels. More recently two prequels were made; Exorcist-The Beginning and Exorcist-Dominion, making a total of 5 movies with the same characters and same premise. The most profound and interesting of the bunch is Exorcist 3-Legion based on the novel Legion. This is more interesting than the original because this addresses and asks in more detail and in more depth about the problems of evil and suffering in the world and asks the hard questions as can a loving God allow such horrors as cancer, starvation, death, and gruesome killings, crimes, and decapitations as caused by serial killers. The blame for evil and suffering is sooner or later blamed on Satan and demons in Exorcist 3-Legion. Author William Peter Blatty wrote The Exorcist and Legion as novels and both became movies. Author Blatty is a Catholic and he truly believes that Satan and demons are real and that demonic possessions are real and that the blame for evil and suffering can be laid at the feet of Satan and demons. In my opinion its still a mystery.
Karthik Kashyap from India on October 17, 2013:
Regarding Pazuzu, most of what you said in the historical accounts seems legitimate. I haven't studied much about Pazuzu (also called Zozo). Interestingly, this is said to be the demon that appears most commonly while using an Ouija bard. I have never used one and I haven't evoked/invoked a demon yet.
However, one needs to understand that almost all movies on demons are created from a Christian perspective, not from a general public's perspective. And from the religious perspective of Christians, even Shiva, Vishnu, Odin, Zeus or any pagan god for that matter can become evil, possessive and what not. One needs to understand this. The religion of Hebrews and Christianity destroyed and blasphemed the ancient religions in the worst ways. They didn't respect any other religion other than their own religion. One needs to look from that perspective.
Having said that, the eastern gods were just a superhuman race (far superior than humans). Nowhere in any of the ancient scriptures does it say that they were "all-loving" unlike what Christians claim about their god. One of the earliest religion in the world is primordial Hinduism. In Sanskrit, Lord Vishnu (one of the highest gods of the Indian pantheon) says that he will come every time when evil is at its peak. He will destroy the evil and the evil doers and establish truth and knowledge. The ancient gods were warriors. They openly said that they are here to destroy the evil and protect the innocent and righteous. That naturally gave them both benevolent and malevolent attitudes (love thy enemy is BS. You want to destroy evil, certain idiots need a tight slap on their face or breaking their limbs so that they don't do evil again). That was their attitude. But Christianity and Judaism just highlighted only the malevolent attributes of these gods and systematically brainwashed the entire world to believe that they were evil.
Again, having said that, all demons in this world are not good. There are evil demons. A demon can possess human body. Possession itself is a lengthy topic. In regards to Pazuzu possessing someone's body, it is not true. When a "Satanic demon" possesses someone, the person doesn't lose consciousness or behave the way it is portrayed in the movie. The person is perfectly aware and is in full consciousness. However, when an evil demon possesses a body, yes sh*t can happen :)
anonymous on October 17, 2013:
Karthikkash do you know anything about the demon or demi-god Pazuzu? Is Pazuzu an Annunaki or is he pure spirit? As you probably know about the novel and movie The Exorcist from the 70's, a statue of Pazuzu is shown at the prologue in Northern Iraq on an archaelogical dig with Father Lankaster Merrin(who is the priest and exorcist in the story.) Some say Pazuzu possessed the girl while others say its a nameless or unknown demon and others say it was Satan who possessed her. The possessed girl in the story claims its the Devil but it could be lying. Whoever or whatever the entity was enngaged in cruel, violent, disgusting behavior such as cursing, spitting, and assaulting people. The possessed girl levitates, uses telekinesis to move objects or to throw objects, speaks in a voice which sounds like a monster, and has knowledge about things which the possessed girl could not have known such as the death of the elderly mother of Father Karras. In one scene the possessed girl transforms herself into the recently dead mother of Father Karras and speaks in the exact same voice to confuse and torment Father Karras by telling him he let her die in a nursing home instead of taking good care of her. Some say that Pazuzu doesnt possess people. In Exorcist 2 the Heretic Pazuzu is said to be responsible for locust plagues in Africa. Pazuzu is dated from 2500 to 3000 years ago and is Mesopotamian/Assyrian. Its a demon of the southwest wind bearing storms and famine. Contradictory things have been written about Pazuzu. This demon is evil but also has a good side. Wonder of wonders! We have evil gods and good demons. Usually evil is associated with demons and devils but there are evil gods as well and ambivalent gods which have both good and evil in them such as Yaahweh the Bible God with His Jekyll and Hyde personality. Well some demons are also ambivalent or a mix of good and evil. Pazuzu is dangerous and yet he is said to protect people from other demons!!! Thats incredible. Im surprised myself. Pazuzu is said to protect pregant women from Lamashtu an evil female demon who afflicts pregant women and who kills babies. Its a contradiction and a paradox. "Evil against evil" as the line spoken in The Exorcist. So the evil Pazuzu can also protect people from other more evil demons. If this is true theit has profound implications for religion and theology and those folks saying that all demons are totally evil and totally unified with eachother and totally unified with the Devil are wrong. It means that there is dissent, division, and even enmity between demons. This is good news for me. If one evil entity fights another evil entity then the war against evil or the war between good and evil is more even. It gives me a little hope that evil can be defeated. Good. The more dissent and division between demons the better. My wish is that the good demons will fight and defeat the evil demons since this useless good for nothing deadbeat God isnt doing anything about it. This God just folds His hands and allows all manner of evil and suffering to continue ad nauseam, ad infinitum or this God just is not in control of whats going on in the world. This God couldnt rid the world of evil in a billion years. Im sure not going to live long enough to see it. Maybe when the sun burns up all its fuel five to fifty billion years from now and planet earth is roasted and totally extinct of life then this God may actually start intervening and start healing. Maybe then Jesus may actually return. You think that will give Him enough time? Its a pitiful, embarrassing joke, failure, and disappointment this God we worship. After everyone and everything is dead and extinct eons into the distant future maybe He may actually start healing this cursed broken creation. To say it will be too late would be the grossest understatement. This isnt just analogous to locking the door AFTER the thief has gone. This is analogous to locking the door LONG AFTER the all the owners are dead and gone and when there is no more house left and when it doesnt matter anymore. And such are God's ways in dealing with His creatures. He neglects them. Its criminal negligence, criminal cruelty, criminal carelessness, criminal improvidence, criminal laziness, criminal immorality, criminal injustice, criminal tardiness, criminal irrationality, criminal insanity, criminal stupidity, criminal incompetence. What a dunce we have for a God. Its EMBARRASSING. Is there a bigger screwup and a bigger failure than this God? The world is a hellhole and a horror movie and has been so for thousands to millions of years with no end in sight. What a pathetic execuse for a God. Its pitiful and embarrassing to have such a failure for a God. An absentee landlord for a God. And lets not forget He has an eternal torture chamber in hell for the next life where billions of people will be roasted forever like charcoals and tortured in other cruel disgusting horrific ways which illustrates a sick cruel evil sadistic mind. Hopeless. Absolutely hopeless. One cannot shine dung. And one cannot reason with an unreasoning being which is this Bible God. The only small light at the end of the tunnel I can see and the only small ray of hope is that some demons have some good in them and are at war with other evil demons.. Pazuzu from The Exorcist is one such demon. Now how to convince these beings to stop being evil and stop being cruel and start helping people instead of hurting people. I wish God would help them change to be good. I wish God woukd help peoole change to be good. Enough with free will and enough with Adam and Eve's sin. This experiment with free will was s grievous error, disaster, tragedy, travesty, and screwup. And I wish God would heal Nature and get rid of Natural evils such as cancer. Im not going to live long enough to get my wishes.
Karthik Kashyap from India on October 08, 2013:
Why blame Devil and his demons? Why not simply questions whatever the Church has taught us. Today we know that a lot of stuff the Church has taught is fraud. So, study and learn the truth. If you still feel that what it taught was the truth, great. Continue following it. Else, move out of the religion. One can be spiritual without being religious. But I guess the Church emphasizes otherwise.
anonymous on October 08, 2013:
While my Christian faith has weakened, its not dead. I need to repent of my insulting remarks to God. I have to go on faith and trust in what I dont know and dont understand. Evil and suffering are threats to faith. Instead of blaming it on God, lets blame it on the Devil and demons. The Devil and demons are stronger and smarter than given credit for. Lets all accept Jesus Christ as saviour.
anonymous on September 07, 2013:
On youtube there are videos showing people talking about hell. Its claimed that many Christians will go to hell for not having God as the center of their life and for not living in total denial and abstinence like Jesus and for being sinners. In other words they will be punished in hell for not being religious fanatics like Jesus and for not being perfect like Jesus and for not belonging to the "true Church" (if there is such a thing) and for failing to believe the entire Bible word for word and for failing to correctly interpret the Bible. They will be punished by God for being born human. Its sick. Its disgusting and it makes God into a monster. And of course all atheists, agnostics, heretics, apostates, Jews, Moslems, and all pagans are doomed to hell. Whew. According to these Fundamentalists, theres going to be billions upon billions of people headed to hell for one reason or another. Im probably going to end up in hell because Im angry with God and I complain to Him and I make insulting remarks to Him. He DRIVES people to get angry at Him with His cruelty and negligence. So all those people who have never heard of Jesus because they live in remote parts of the world are doomed to hell because they were born in the wrong geographical location and born in the wrong culture. This is sick as well ss unjust. There are hundreds of religions to choose and confuse. There are dozens of denominations and Christian churches to choose and confuse. As I said many times before, the Bible is vague, ambiguous, unclear, inconclusive, cryptic, puzzling, and full of contradictions from Genesis to Revelation. The Bible and Christianity has caused mass division, mass contradiction, mass disagreement, and mass confusion. Salvation and interpreting the Bible becomes an enie meenie minie mo guessing game. If one guesses wrong then its hell for him. Its sick. Its damn sick. And if one isnt a religious fanatic like Jesus then its hell. We're all expected to disown our parents and to forget about ALL our worldly needs and desires and we're ALL expected to forget everything we love and forget everyone we love. So screw everything else and screw everyone else to serve this egomanaical God and His egomaniacal son Jesus. We're all expected to castrate ourselves to live like Jesus. Total denial, abstinence, privation, deprivation, poverty, misery, blind faith, blind trust, martyrdom. If we refuse or fail to live up to this nearly impossible ideals, then its hell. All this egomaniacal selfish self centered self focused narcississtic megolomaniacal tyrannical God cares about is for us to worship Him, keep His commandments, believe in Jesus, and believe the Bible. It doesnt matter to Him how horrible our lives are. We're told this earthly life isnt important. We're all expected to be religious fanatics like Jesus, we're all expected to be perfect like Jesus, we're all expected to have blind faith and blind trust like Jesus, we're all expected to overcome adversity like Jesus, we're all expected to be masochists and martyrs like Jesus. We're all expected to suffer like Jesus if we're to be His worthy disciples. Are you getting this dear Christians? Are you comprehending this dear readers? This egomaniacal God wants our undivided attention, devotion, and love and expects us all to suffer like Jesus. We're expected to give our last dollar and last cent to the poor and we're expected to pluck out our eyes and cut off our hands and we're expected to carry a cross like Jesus. It sounds like a cult reminiscent of Charles Manson and Jim Jones. Either worship God and make Him the most important thing in your life and keep all His commandments and believe Jesus and believe the Bible or go to hell say Fundamentalist Christians. Authors Mary Baxter and Bill Wiese have claimed they saw visions of hell. On youtube they show pictures of demons and monsters slicing up human sinners and devouring their flesh and theres a lake of fire where sinners will be burning like charcoals forever. Its damn sick. So this God is going to punish people in hell for being human and for being what Nature made them to be. If one cant control their lust then too bad say the Fundamentalists. They're going to hell. In other words they are going to be punished for being what Nature made them to be. If God is omnicient then He should have foreseen the tragic, disastrous, dire consequences of this experiment with free will, Satan, and Adam and Eve and He should have prevented it. If all this evil, sin, suffering, and death is the price of God creating and the price of free will, then DONT DO IT. DONT CREATE IT. Did God foresee all these horrors and did He go ahead anyway with creating this screwed up world? Did this God ever think of the consequences of what He's creating? If God forsaw all the sins and evils humans would do and if He foresaw that many humans would disobey Him and/or disbelieve in Him and if God foresaw that He would have to punish them forever in hell in the next life, then was it wise for God to go ahead with this experiment with free will? Was this the right thing to do? The answer is no. He allows Adam and Eve's sin to be passed on to ALL future unborn humans and punishes the entire creation for all time. This God is immature, childish, petty, unjust, unwise, unkind, unreasoning, unforgiving, and cruel beyond belief. This God needs to grow up for a change. He's a psychopathic monster with no conscience. Satan the Devil rules this world. A loving wise God does not. Why allow endless division and confusion over religion? Why wont He communicate with us and explain to us what the Bible means? For instance this confounding story about Adam and Eve. There are a number of different ways to interpret this story. Which is the correct one? Why wont He tell us? Its IMPOSSIBLE to make sense out of this screwed up story. This God chooses to keep silent and secret. This God trashes and ruins His own reputation. Nearly the entire world is headed for hell according to the Bible and according to Christianity. So this God created billions of people who He knows beforehand will end up in hell. Its sick. Its beyond sick. Its beyond monstrous. I live in fear.
anonymous on August 31, 2013:
Nature is full of cruelties which I find embarrassing as a believer in God. Human beings with all their defects and cruelties is also embarrassing and history is full of embarrassments. All of history is like a horror novel or a horror movie. Thats why Im pessimistic. Read the hubsite by Buzzbee. Read Horror movies/Hubpages/How Horror Movies Show the Dark Negative Side/Buzzbee. I have written so far 24 blogs for that hubsite about many horror movies. Human evil, Natural evil, and Supernatural evil(the Devil and demons) are what I have written. Movies such as Centipede Horror, The Exorcist, Beyond the Door, Exorcist 3-Legion, The Devil's Rain, The Sentinel, and Helter Skelter are some of the titles. Real life is a horror movie. Suffering and death are an inherent, intrinsic, built in aspects of reality. Notice the proliferation of horror movies, horror novels, horror comics, and all manner of horror merchandise such as masks, costumes, posters, t-shirts, toys, etc and haunted hayrides and haunted houses where actors dressed as monsters approach and terrify visitors for "entertainment." Horror movies showing all manner of evil are shown on T.V. and in theaters and are sold in stores. Murders, killings, decapitations, gore, torture, rape, cannibalism, Devil worship, etc are all depicted. Cruelty, depravity, degeneracy, deviancy,deformity, repulsiveness, death and entropy are depicted in horror movies and horror novels. I cannot watch most of it. There are unknown momsters in lakes and oceans such as the Ogopogo of Canada and the Lukwata of Africa. The Lukwata is described as either snake like or fish like or whale like. Some say it could be a surviving Plesiosaur or longneck. It makes bellowing roars, it kills and eats large Crocodiles, and its been known to kill humans. The European Sir Clement Hill saw a Lukwata in 1900 as it tried to grab one of his men from a boat. In the Amazon another horror is the Candiru fish which sustains its perverse nourishment by attacking the gills of other fish and by entering the urethra of humans and causimg agonizing pain. The Orange Baboon Tarantula of Africa is super aggressive and its venom causes unimaginable pain and sickness. Its said to feel like having a hot electric iron on one's body or being set on fire. Whoever or whatever created Nature made an awful lot of violence, pain, torture, killing, and death. Diseases continue to cause suffering and death to both people and animals. The creator is a cruel, immoral, amoral monster.
anonymous on August 31, 2013:
Nature is cruel. Its full of violence, predation, diseases, mass starvation, torturous pain, venomous pests, parasites, birth defects, and grossness and repulsiveness. There is an epidemic of homeless cats and dogs. I love dogs and cats. It hurts me to see them suffer. I am angry at the creator and Im angry at God for allowing animal suffering and death. Countless dogs and cats end up in shelters and pounds where they lead miserable lives until they are euthanized. The rest of them end up on streets to fend for themselves in the cold, in the heat, and are at risk of being struck by motor vehicles and are at risk from ingesting poisons such as sprays, oil, antifreeze, and gas. They are forced to hunt and kill wildlife to survive or they are forced to eat from garbage cans and dumptsers. Or they starve to death. This is how God provides for His creatures. Its cruelty, negligence, and incompetence on the part of God. This God also punishes animals for Adam and Eve's sin as well as human beings. Predation is cruel, being forced to eat from garbage cans and dumpsters is cruel, and allowing starvation is cruel. Im having problems with my teeth. Ive had extractions and root canals before. Its torture but having a toothache is worse torture. Now that Halloween is drawing near, candy will be sold in great quantities. More tooth decay, more diabetes, more obesity, and more trips to dentists and doctors. Healthy foods and healthy drinks also have sugar such as fruits and fruit juices. The human teeth are defective and cant tell the difference between the bad sugars from candy and junk food from the good sugars in fruits and fruit juices. The teeth decay anyway and the person suffers anyway. This is not intelligent benevolent design. On a creative level, on a philosophic level, and on a moral level its a bungle. Its cruelty and incompetence. God or the creator is cruel and incompetent. Its an embarrassment.
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 30, 2013:
There are a lot of entities in the world, beyond human grasp. Some are good and some as evil.. Moreover, demons are known to be powerful than just human spirits. There are different theories about how these demons are so powerful. While there are entities that want to help or neutral to humans, some are there to create havoc. When people say they have seen satanic or demonic entities, they may have very well met some evil entities, and due to wrong knowledge, they would have called it Satanic. You never know what could have conspired.
anonymous on August 30, 2013:
In the book Michelle Remembers, a young girl tells about being held captive and abused by a Satanic cult in British Columbia in the 1950s. Years later and under therapy she writes a book about about it. She tells of robed cultists making sacrifices and even describes seeing Satan appear in a fire. Satan's appearance was that of a man beast and a Reptile. She claims Satan touched her with his tail and made poem like speeches. Satan's speeches dont make alot of sense. I smell some kind of hoax. Ive read the book and the speeches by Satan were fairly lengthy. How could she remember all those words in such detail? It seems like she memorized every word verbatim and there are alot of words. This Satan was a talkative one. It made no sense what it said. It was however an evil entity which demanded sacrifices and worship. A hoax? A drug induced hallucination? A dream or nightmare? Mental illness? Some of the things mentioned in the book resemble horror movies such as The Devil's Rain starring Ernest Borgnine as the leader of a Satanic church with robed cultists, snakes, and physical torture and the appearance of a demon or the Devil. In this movie the Satanists chase people and physically force them and torture them to convert them into Satanists. This movie is scary and depicts Satanism as scary. The lead Satanist has supernatural powers such as being able to make objects appear out of nowhere. In nearly all horror movies and horror novels Satan and demons are depicted as evil and scary monsters often with horns and a pitchfork. There seems to be more than one Satan.
anonymous on August 30, 2013:
Authors T.J. Wray and Gregory Mobley have produced a book called The Birth of Satan. It can be found on the Internet or on google. Could you read some of it and tell me what you think of it. Are they wrong in what they say? They say that Satan is the personfication of evil. Is there more than one Satan? Maybe Enki the Anunnaki is not really Satan. Satan according to Christians is not flesh and blood but a spirit being or supernatural being and the source of evil. Both the Bible God and Satan in the Bible are evil. Author Jeffrey Burton Russell has written several books about the Devil. He writes that Satan cannot be good and says that Satan is by definition evil. It seems to me that there is more than one Satan. The Enki being kdoesnt seem to be evil while the Satan in the Bible is definitely evil. Author Dennis Wheatley has written a book The Devil and All His Works. In the British horror movie The Devil's Bride the Devil is depicted as a horned goat or the Goat of Mendes. In the book
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 30, 2013:
That is the wrong notion about Satanism.. Everything has been garbled up for 3,000 years. I will re-iterate again. Satan/Lucifer are not evil people. They were the original "creators" of humanity. Lucifer and his gods were known by different names by different cultures. These people taught humanity to read, write, science, art and culture. All the Jewish/Christian god did was strip humans off the knowledge/culture and science and made us beggars. It wasn't Satan who was evil, but Jehovah who was the true evil. If you study the website, you will understand why.
People have the wrong notion about Satanism. Of course, a major part of it has also come from what many people have done in the name of Satan worship. There has been a lot of blood-shed and evil done in the name of Satanism. That is not satanism. That is crime. That is indeed demon worship, but the evil demons. People who have killed people in the name of sacrifice are deluded and lunatic people, who have absolutely no idea what Satanism is.
Then there was the Church of Satan which had nothing to do with Satan, but glorified hedonism.
Satanism is none of this. It is actually going back to the old gods and spirituality. What we do as Yoga and meditation all came from the same old gods. It is going back to those roots.
Theistic Satanism is going back to the old gods whille spiritual Satanism is going back to those old science, knowledge and learning from them. Moreover, if you look at it from the Vatican's perspective, all non-Christians and non-Jews are naturally Satan and devil worshipers :D
anonymous on August 30, 2013:
Its unfortunate you have become a Satanist. Its understandable however. People become Satanists for a number of reasons. As I wrote before one of the reasons why people turn to Satanism is because the "true God" is an absentee landlord. God refuses to help and refuses to heal or is unable to do these things. Satanism,demon worship, and pagan gods and pagan religions proliferate in part because the "true God" is so absent and the "true religion" of Christianity also fails to provide for our needs. In Christianity we're all expected to suffer like Jesus as this earthly life doesnt count. Christianity encourages suffering. Its a masochistic religion. It also encourages blind faith, blind trust, blind obedience, and ignorance. Being curious is discouraged in Christianity. Asking intelligent questions such as why does God allow evil and suffering is not encouraged as it reveals the deficiencies of this God we worship. Questioning God's ways and questioning the Bible is seen as admitting defeat and having a weak faith. Heresy,apostasy, and blasphemy are charges for people who question and disagree with Christianity. Christianity has been divided almost from the start of its history in the first century. Marcion and the Gnostics were at odds with Roman Catholics. The Cathars were persecuted and driven extinct by the Roman Catholic Church. Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation caused more division, disagreement, confusion. If the Bible and Christianity is the only "true religion" and is the "word of God" then why didnt He make Himself clear? From Genesis to Revelation the Bible is vague, ambiguous,unclear,cryptic, puzzling,and full of contradictions. The Old Testament contradicts the New Testament and contradicts itself. The New Testament contradicts the Old Testament and contradicts itself. The Bible contradicts the Koran and vice versa.Christianity contradicts Judaism and Islam and contradicts itself. Judaism contradicts Christianity and Islam and contradicts itself. Islam contradicts Christianity and Judaism and contradicts itself. To make it more confusing, there are numerous translations of the Bible in English. Many many denominations and different Churches with each one yelling something different. What kind of screwup for a God creates or causes numerous conflicting contradictory religions thus causing mass division and mass confusion? Why do this when our eternal souls are at stake? Why cant this God communicate with humans in a clear manner for all to understand? What a confused fellow is this God. He keeps changing His mind with each religious denomination and with each religious leader.God's failure to communicate clearly(He seldom communicates at all) and God's failure to help people and His failure to heal people are reasons why people either become Satanists, pagans, or agnostics and atheists. And its also why people become heretics, apostates, and blasphemers and its why people become angry snd disappointed with God. This God doesnt seem to realize that He trashes and ruins His own reputation with His cruelty, negligence, and stupidity. He darkens His own name. He trashes and ruins His own legacy and He is too stupid to see this. Or maybe He sees this and purposefully hides Himself and refuses to intervene out of spite and cruelty. If thats the case then what does that say about His character? So salvation becomes an enie meenie minie mo guessing game. Trying to interpret the Bible becomes a guessing game. For those who guessed wrong and who belong to the wrong cburch then its hell for them according to Fundamentalist Christians. Christianity is cruel and its God is cruel.
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 29, 2013:
I think that most of your queries can be answered if you visit the official page of "Joy of Satan" which is the official webpage of the spiritual satanists.
anonymous on August 29, 2013:
Science created all living things? But what created science? An intelligent power of some kind created the world and universe. If we say its evolution then who or what started this process of evolution? Blind chance cant explain it. I believe that the Supernatural created or caused the Natural and created or caused Humanity. Evolution is a very slow form of creation whereas the Biblical account of God creating everything in 6 literal days is superfast creation. Whoever or whatever created cancer, rabies, malaria, ebola, stonefish, black widow spiders, centipedes, tsunamis is either partly evil, insane, or mentally blind or morally blind and amoral. As a believer of God I have a hard time accepting that the God I worship is cruel enough or insane enough or stupid enough to create such horrors as cancer. Even if these Natural evils werent created by God then the questions remain: who or what created them and WHY is God allowing these cruelties to cause suffering and death? Everything I read about Angra-mainyu/Ahriman says he is extremely unimaginably evil. He especially enjoys inflicting suffering as through diseases, scorpions, mosquitoes, intense cold, intense heat, and death. Whereas Yahweh has a Jekyll and Hyde personality or is a mix of good and evil, Angra-mainyu/Ahriman is all Hyde or totally evil. What else do you know about Angra-mainyu/Ahriman? How is Angra-mainyu/Ahriman related to Satan? Is Angra-mainyu/Ahriman one of the Anunnaki or is he a spirit being? The Anunnaki are flesh and blood beings like human beings. Do the Anunnaki get sick and grow old and die like humans and animals? Do the Anunnaki suffer from health problems?
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 29, 2013:
What we have been taught from our birth has been biased towards Christian god. The problem is that from our school days, every book is written by a Christian or a Jew. That is why it appears that that god is benevolent while everything is evil. We have been systematically brainwashed into believing that the Biblical god is good and everything is evil. We have been taught to fear god instead of asking questions. We have been taught that we are not supposed to read any other religious books outside the Bible, because everything else is written by devil. This is the level at which the Jews and Church went to hide the true knowledge. Most of atheists outside India or some of the non-Christian and non-Jewish countries are so because they are just aware of the biblical god and nothing else. When they say that they don't believe in god, they are essentially saying that they don't believe in Jesus or his father. If they had read other religious texts around the world, I can bet more than half the atheists would believe in the real god, who was actually Lucifer/Satan. They would have also realized that everything Judaism and Christianity were blatant plagiarism of eastern religions. They took the eastern gods, created their history and Christ and denigrated the same eastern gods. It wasn't the eastern gods who were evil. It was truly the Hebrews and their gods who were evil. In fact, as you yourself mentioned in one of the previous comments, Jews worshiped the same gods before an invisible god called Jehovah stepped and either forced or manipulated Jews to worship him. There is also a theory that Jews originated in the western regions of India.
To actually set the records straight, most of the gods you mentioned are either Satan's different forms or some of his gods. His original name is not Satan either. No one knows his original name. However, he was known by humans by different names. He was known as Malek Taus or Say-tan by Yazidis, Ea/Enki/Oannes by Sumerians and Babylonians, Vishnu/Shiva/Surya and Indra by Indians, Osiris by Egyptians, Dionysus and Zeus by Greeks and Odin by the Norse people. Satan was indeed one of the Anunnaki. But he and some of his gods were the ones who were benevolent to humans. In fact, Enki was a scientist and a biologist (according to their ranks) and that is how he created human DNA by using his and ape DNA.
According to one theory, he wanted humans to be perfect similar to them. But there was opposition as some of them just wanted slaves. How much of this theory is true, we don't know. But a sect called Spiritual Satanists (not from the Church of Satan) believe that, his real intention was to help humans achieve god-hood similar to them. According to them, they are the original Nordic race, and through various DNA experiments, created different races (nonetheless, equal) of human beings on earth. It is also said they are just one of the many races of aliens in the universe. There are other human-hating nordics, reptilians, and the most popular 'Greys'. According to the Spiritual Satanists, some reptilian races and their slave race, the greys, want to weaken humans and deprive them of all spirituality and make us internally empty, so that we can be destroyed easily. This is where the Jewish program was born.
Whether Jehovah was a real entity or not, he was definitely there to cause destruction as we already know. History became more corrupt due to time and deliberate corruption. The good guys became the bad guys, while the bad guys became god, one who insights slavery and blood-thirst. The agenda behind the creation of Christianity was to deprive humans of spiritual knowledge. That is very much evident throughout history. In fact, it is very much openly seen when I speak to any Christian. They are totally void of spirituality. All they know is begging god for mercy and some external god, instead of internal spirituality.
Any attempt in talking spiritually developing ourselves, the immediate response is "but that is evil", while the truth is, we humans were given the knowledge of occult and spirituality. The Christian version of spirituality is "there is someone powerful, and I trust in him. I am incapable of anything because I am powerless and spineless". That is the level to which the Church and Christianity has brought people to, where they feel self-pity, powerless and helpless, while the eastern gods gave us the knowledge and spiritual power to become like them.
Regarding the Church of Satan, it had nothing to do with Satan himself. They just wanted to glorify hedonism, that's all. Also, Set is not Satan, but one of his gods.
The theory that "god created evil creatures" comes from the belief that "god created heaven and earth", while the truth is no known god created earth or its creatures. It is science. At least, no known "god" created all creatures. Universe has been in existence since time unknown. The formation of earth, life on earth and all that is science. Nature does not have a dual character. It creates what it creates and that includes all living beings and non-living beings, good or bad. As the Chinese say, Yin and Yang (white and dark) are necessary for balance. If something turned evil from good or vice versa, it is either adapting to the new environment or due to external manipulation.
anonymous on August 29, 2013:
Im confused. In almost every source I read it says Angra-mainyu/Ahriman is the embodiment of all evil. Some sources say Ahriman created diseases, mosquitoes, scorpions, snakes, intense cold, intense heat, and death. These are called Natural evils or Physical evils. Ahriman also instigates human sin. Ahriman is said to be the brother of Ahura-mazda/Ormazd the good God. Zurvan created both Ormazd and Ahriman. Ahriman chose to be evil right from the start. Ahriman is roughly as powerful as Ormazd but Ormazd wil one day defeat Ahriman. According to this source it will take 9000 years for Ormazd the good God to defeat Ahriman the evil god or Devil. Its Dualistic until Ormazd gains the power to defeat the evil Ahriman. Why it takes Ormazd so long to defeat Ahriman isnt known. Ormazd is a vast improvement over the horrible God of the Bible. In some other versions oc Zoroastrianism Ahriman is unable to create anything and thus did not create diseases nor scorpions. Well then, how did these cruelties of Nature arise? We still dont know who or what created evil and suffering. The origin of evil and suffering remains a mystery. Supernatural beings called Archons of which Yahweh maybe one of, are said to have created matter, the world, and universe. These beings are neither wholly good nor wholly evil. They are a mix of good and evil or morally ambivalent. They are scary beings with a cruel, ruthless, amoral side which can be seen in the Nature they created. Some equate Satan with Angra-mainyu/Ahriman. Some say Set and Satan are one and the same being. Michael Aquino formed the Temple of Set and believes Set is the true Satan. Michael Aquino broke away from Anton Lavey's Satanic church. Lavey claims he no longer believes in a literal Satan while Michael Aquino does believe in a literal supernatural Satan. To make things more confusing, theres another belief that says that Angra-mainyu/Ahriman repented to God and is now friends with God. In other words Angra-mainyu/Ahriman is no longer an evil fiend. Its very contradictory confounding and confusing. Angra-mainyu/Ahriman has a very bad reputation nearly everywhere I read. Will the real evil Devil stand up? The mystery of evil and the suffering and death of animals and people remains the deepest darkest and most horrible mysteries.
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 29, 2013:
I saw that you mentioned Angra-mainyu/Ahriman as the most evil version of devil. This was again another corruption by Jews and their evil god. I was reading through the Indian pantheon of gods. The earliest scriptures of Veda called the Rig-Veda has 33 deities which include 12 solar deities, 11 rudras (11 manifestations of Lord Shiva), 8 elemental gods, Brahma and Vishnu.
Among the 12 solar deities, 'Aryaman' was one of the chief deities. Aryaman actually meant "bosom friend". He was either a solar deity or another manifestation of the "Sun god". He was responsible for controlling the movement of time, and he was the creator of day and night. He was also possibly 'Odin' of Norse Mythology and 'Irmin' (German and Saxon mythology), the god of war and storms. You may already know that all Indo-European cultures were rooted in Sumer and India.
Zoroastrianism was essentially a sun worshiping religion and was born in Babylon. Naturally Aryaman/Angra-mainyu/Ahriman became one of the principle deities for Zoroastrians. All these eastern gods were brutally termed evil by the Jews and later, the Church.
As I have mentioned before, Satan in Hebrew essentially means 'enemy' and not evil. These gods were indeed enemies, but they were enemies of the evil according to the eastern religions. In fact, Indian culture calls all our gods as saviors of humanity while killing the evil. The real evil was in fact, the Jewish god Jehovah.
From what I have read from certain sources (if you want to believe it), the original gods are currently at war with the Jewish god (if that Jehova exists at all, as these people believe that Jehovah was just another program by human-hating alien races). These gods have also become far powerful than earlier. Some examples they quote are Vatican losing power, the turmoil in Middle-east where people increasingly want to replace the Sultans with democracy, and so on.
anonymous on August 28, 2013:
I forgot to mention another reason why theres predation, violence, killing, death, venomous pests, parasites, and diseases. Its because God got angry at Adam and Eve for eating a forbidden apple 6000 to 30,000 years ago and decided to curse His entire creation. The world was originally a paradise and peaceable kingdom before Adam and Eve's sin. Scientifically and morally speaking thus is untenable. How did Adam and Eve's sin have the power to corrupt or change the entire Natural order? How can this one human act change or ruin Nature? Does this make sense? Is it something God did? Did God change or corrupt the entire Natural order? If so then God is immature, childish, petty, mean, unfair,unjust, unreasoning, unkind, irrational, insane, stupid, and cruel. This God needs to grow up for a change. He behaves like an immature, angry, psychopathic idiot. And we worship this cruel psychopathic idiot. This is the most asinine story ever conceived by man and it makes God look like a mean cruel jerk who recklessly and wantonly punishes His creation. He ensnared humanity in an immoral destructive experiment. How stupid to allow Adam and Eve's sin to be passed on to everyone born thereafter. The Bible God wrote the book on "How to Screw and Ruin Your Creation." Insane. Stupid. Unreasoning. Unimaginably cruel. This God is a monster no matter how I look at it.
anonymous on August 27, 2013:
The world is a vast slaughterhouse. 90 percent of the animal kingdom is meat eating as is 90 to 95 percent of humanity. That means theres violence carnage killing death and gore everywhere all the time. On a smaller scale Insects Arachnids and Centipedes are predators and killers. Is the creator of all this violence and killing enjoy violence? Or maybe the creator or God who made all this violence and predation limited or incompetent and doesnt know how to create in a merciful humane manner. Is it beyond the creator's ability to create a world where animals and people can eat without killing? Apparentlly yes. The creator made violence and killing as a way of life because it doesnt know any better. Im not saying all animals and all people should be herbivores. Why not create meat in a synthetic manner without having to kill animals? In other words all the different kinds of meats which animals and people eat could either be produced synthetically or grown like a plant. In other words why not eat meat WITHOUT killing for it? Why wont God find a merciful humane way for His creatures to eat and live? I personally find eating meat as gross and repulsive but many people like meat and many animals need meat so eating meat has to continue. With the human overpopulation more animals need to be slaughtered. The horrors that go on in factory farms and in slaughterhouses is disgusting. Nature is also disgusting. Watching Pythons strangle their prey and swallowing it and watching cats bite and claw their prey is disgusting. Watching Tarantulas bite their prey and injecting their victims with venom is also horrific. Whoever or whatever created Nature made an awful lot of violence carnage torture killing and death. Venomous pests such as Tarantulas and parasites such as Mosquitoes ticks fleas lice tapeworms make the world a dangerous frightening place. The creator of these Natural evils is an immoral amoral monster whose cruelty is unimaginable. Diseases such as cancer and malaria continue to torture and kill with no end in sight. This is the work of the Devil.
anonymous on August 22, 2013:
When you say that poisonous creatures such as centipedes and scorpions are just products of Nature do you mean that no conscious entity whether good or evil created them? When Nature creates an animal or a plant is it blind impersonal unconscious causation? Or is the creator of Nature conscious of what it does? If a conscious creator made poisonous pests such as centipedes and made diseases such as cancer and ebola knowing full well the suffering its going to cause then this creator is at least partly evil or insane or amoral or mentally blind and morally blind. In this case the creator is conscious of what he does but he has no conscience for the suffering he is causing. Its a cruel creator who made centipedes and diseases and almost certainly insane as well. A loving merciful God would not create such horrors knowing the suffering and loss of life its causing. Zoroastrian religion blames Natural evils such as centipedes scorpions snakes mosquitoes diseases intense cold intense heat and death on Angra-mainy/Ahriman. Ahriman is probably the most evil version of the Devil and especially enjoys inflicting suffering. Ahriman also instigates human evil and sin. Is Ahriman real? Yahweh is believed by religious folks to be the creator of all things. Well centipedes mosquitoes cancer malaria anthrax hurricanes earthquakes tsunamis are included in all things. It amazes me how Jews Christians and Moslems overlook the cruelty of this God or justify His cruelty. God's ways are unknowable we are told so God can do what He pleases. That doesnt sit well with me. The mysteries of the origin of evil and suffering continues. Thank you for your information.
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 21, 2013:
Most diseases are not created by god, but have very scientific and earthly explanations. Whatever we read in the religious books, many would be just allegories and nothing to do with gods. People of those ages probably didn't know what caused it. So, they just saw it as something supernatural and thus created by god or devil. Some diseases however, were indeed created by Yahweh. For example, the seven plagues of Egypt during Ramses's reign may have been created by him. If certain documents are to believed, there seems to be a weird connection between every new worldwide disease and UFOs (btw, every god or Jehovah were alien beings, that's all. They were not someone who created heaven and earth. The all knowing god is just a scam). For example, UFOs and weird ghostly looking creatures (possibly alien Greys??) were known to be seen during the black plague in Medieval Europe (could it be a chemical warfare in an attempt to destroy humanity??)
Again, poisonous creatures such as centipede or Scorpions (I am one..lol) are just nature's creation, just like any other creature in the world. Now, how they became poisonous, could be either through evolution, or may have been experimentation.
A bit regarding demons: Demons are supernatural entities which vibrate at different frequencies. Science says that there are about 12 dimensions and humans know just 4-5 (the 3-dimensions of plane. Space and time still being explored). There are however, different beings in the universe which live in different dimensions and operate at different frequencies. The only reason we don't see them is because they vibrate at frequencies different than humans. Humans' natural frequency of vibration is beta (14-40 Hz). Gods and demons vibrate at lower frequencies (alpha, theta and other). That is the reason why many people experience a presence of a supernatural entity only when their mind is in a totally trans-frequency (drugs, meditation, deep sleep).
Demons are not entirely good or evil. There are both good and bad. Whatever humans usually experience are either due to our own subconscious power (such as poltergeist) or due to bad demons. Satan and his 'demons' were not evil. As I said earlier, all the ancient religions were blatantly termed as demonic and mixed with other demons by the Torah, Church and Koran. Satan and his gods are just far more advanced than humans both spiritually and technologically. Hence, they could have possibly created a lot of stuff. Other demons, can't really say. But they are definitely known to be extremely powerful.
In fact, we humans are found to have 66.6% alien DNA according to recent studies (it is funny, if you focus on 666, considering Satan's number is considered 666). Ancient spirituality and modern day famous success coaches around the world pretty much say that what a human mind can conceive, it can be created on earth. Witches and sorcerers are known to create things in reality. That is the power of human mind.
When we are talking about astrology, Kabbalah and related occult stuff, it came from the East. Hindu (Indian) and Helenic astrological systems are still considered the best astrological systems. All these were corrupted by Jewish and related religions.
Now are Anunnaki evil? Enki, Enlil and their gods are anunnaki, but were the good ones (Enlil creating a flood was myth. The flood was a natural phenomenon and occurred due to melting ice. However, Enki saved humanity from the destruction). They were the original Nordic race of people. However, there are other races of aliens (there are few other Nordic alien races which are evil. The best known are the Christian 'Angels'. There are reptilians and Greys and god knows what alien race). The Illuminati is an evil creation, nothing to do with Satan. In fact, Freemasons were known to be worshipers of Eastern esoteric knowledge, which the enemy infiltrated later. That is why Freemasonry is corrupted today and has become a commanding ground was Illuminati.
anonymous on August 20, 2013:
Karthikkash do you know who or what created Natural evils such as cancer, malaria, centipedes, ticks, fleas, lice, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc? Did Yahweh the Bible God create these horrible things or is it some other entity? Some blame Satan and demons for these Natural evils. Angra-mainyu/Ahriman created these Natural evils according to Zoroastrianism. On the other hand there are those who say thst Satan demons Angra-mainyu/Ahriman are unable to create anything. They may enjoy the suffering thats caused by these Natural evils but they are unable to create them or unable to cause them. Others say that the Devil and demons have the ability to corrupt something. For example Centipedes may have been originally harmless vegetarians. The Devil and demons corrupted Centipedes and changed them into a venomous predator. According to this line of thought the Devil and demons corrupted and changed the entire creation to cause suffering and death. In other words they didnt create Centipedes and mosquitoes but they corrupted Centipedes and mosquitoes by either making them venomous and predatory or making them parasites and disease carriers. Cancer may have been originally harmless until the Devil and demons corrupted it and turned it into a painful deadly disease. So in this line of thought the Devil and demons are unable to create anything but have the ability to corrupt something. In this case they corrupted Nature by changing harmless things to become dangerous and deadly. Theres a demonic Devilish side to Nature causing suffering and death. Did Enki have anything to do with Natural evils? Do the Anunnaki aliens have anything to do with Natural evils? The book of Enoch is supposed to answer our questions about the origin of evil. It doesnt. So the fallen angels or Watchers gave mankind astrology makeup and the occult according to Enoch. This doesnt answer my question of who or what created Natural evils such as cancer. The book of Enoch and the Lost books of the Bible and the Kabbala have interesting things to say but they create more questions than supply answers.
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 19, 2013:
Definitely. Reality is corrupted in so many ways due to watering down, ignorance or pure corruption :)
anonymous on August 19, 2013:
The ancient Hebrews initially believed in other gods but their Jehova/Yahweh was the one "true God" supposedly. All the other pagan gods were considered taboo to worship. Much later on these other pagan gods were considered demons by Christianity. But Jehova/ Yahweh with the Jekyll and Hyde personality was considered the only "true god". so the Hebrews felt they had the right to destroy and displace pagan peoples and pagan gods since the Hebrews were the "chosen people." Their God Yahweh has a split personality and a cruel violent murderous streak in Him as can be seen in His behavior in the Bible and as can be seen in the Nature He created. He created lovely roses on one hand and the horrific ebola virus on the other hand. Early Judaism considered Yahweh as the source of both good and evil. Later on at some point in the Intertestamental period(about 200 B.C.) a Dualism started to emerge. By the time Christianity appeared Yahweh now became all good and the source for evil became other deities. Now its Satan and demons who took on the role of evil and were blamed for being the source of evil. This is known as theodicy which is justifying God's ways to absolve Him or to get Him off the hook for having evil and suffering in the world. The Bible, if read objectively, is saying that BOTH Yahweh the Bible God and Satan and demons are to blame for evil and suffering in the world. God is alot more to blame as He created everything and everyone according to the Bible. According to Christians God is above moral standards. What is wrong for humans isnt wrong for God. So God can inflict or allow eons of evil suffering and death and thats ok for Christians. Christians justify God's cruelty and negligence. Well its not ok for me. The Bible God is a moral monstrosity. He has no morals except that spoken from His mouth as author Mark Twain correctly noted. God or the gods dont know what morals are and dont know what mercifulness is. The Bible God has no morals and has no mercy and has no common sense and has no reasoning. I believe He is insane as well as cruel. Its a blind God. Hes mentally blind and morally blind. Immoral amoral nonmoral. This monstrous God hardened Pharaoh's heart so He can utterly destroy the Egyptians. Its despicable and immoral. Instead of just punishing Pharaoh and the slave drivers Yahweh decides to punish civilians women children and animals. Even babies werent spared. And after the Israelites are freed and are wandering in the wilderness and desert Yahweh has an angry fit and kills 14,700 of His own chosen people just because they were complaining about being in the harsh conditions of a desert and wioderness. All this God knows how to do is PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH. He cannot manage His creation in a merciful humane manner and He cannot manage His creation in an intelligent constructive manner. Violence cruelty torture incompetence negligence stupidity insanity and destructiveness are His ways. He knows no better. This God should consult us humans for moral advice and not the other way around. Much of what the Bible says about God embarrasses me. There are tons of books about the Bible about God about the Devil about religion and about history. I still have alot to learn. Its confusing because of the volume of information on one hand and because there is so much disagreement division contradiction and confusion between different authors and different books. Just as people disagree about religion and disagree about God and disagree about Satan there is also disagreement about history. Reality is like a humungous jigsaw puzzle. Hiw does one collate all this information and make sense out of it?
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 19, 2013:
Anonymous: I completely agree with whatever you said. I didn't know that the Hebrews initially followed henotheism before their evil, blood-thirsty god came in. Thanks for enlightening me about that :) I did know that they came from parts of India-Sumer region in ancient times. So quite possible that they had the same gods before Jehovah came into the picture.
anonymous on August 17, 2013:
Your viewpoints are interesting Karthikkash. I have written on Titen-sxull's hubsite, God versus Satan, Yahweh is evil. Judaism didnt start out as monotheistic but gradually became monotheistic. It was originally henotheism. If all those other gods such as Baal, Moloch, Beelzebub, etc were just fakes which didnt exist then why does Yahweh the so called only "true God" say that He is a jealous God and says that His people shall have no other gods besides Him? If there are no other gods then who is Yahweh jealous of? Is Yahweh jealous of nonexistent idols? Why be jealous of things that dont exist? Its also laughable that the Bible writers try to show that Yahweh is superior to all the other gods. Superior in what way? The only thing Yahweh is superior in and excels in is violence, cruelty, torture, and killing. Elijah or Elisha has a contest with pagans and when the pagan god refuses to respond Elisha makes fun of rhe pagan god. "Is your god asleep?" jokes Elisha. Yahweh appears and performs a silly miracle which I cant remember exactly what. The true God or Yahweh supposedly interacted with people and supposedly did all those miracles in Biblical times but its funny how after Jesus Christ left earth He suddenly stops interacting and He suddenly stops intervening. If He is the same yesterday todsy and forever then why wont He perform His miracles today? Why does He allow mass starvation and genocides? Its Yahweh who is the one sleeping today and its Yahweh the true God who fails to appear today. And alot of God's interaction and intervention in Biblical times was giving out tedious instructions on how to ritually slaughter animals and in punishing and killing people and animals. If sending plagues is God's miracles then I dont want it. This God is immature, childish, petty, irrational, insane, incompetent, stupid, unjust, unreasoning, and cruel. This God needs to grow up for a change. He behaves like a psychopath who blindly recklessly indiscriminately tortures and kills people and animals. In Psalms there is a passage where God says that His chosen people should take the babies of their enemies and bash their brains on rocks. Disgusting psychopathic insane, barbaric, savagery, idiocy. A return to Biblical "morality" anyone? The Bible God threatens people with turning into cannibals and mothers shall eat their babies and pregnant mothers shall have their babies ripped out of them. Its sick. Its like a horror novel or a horror movie. And we're to love Him and worship Him. We worship evil. We worship a nasty monster. And He has an eternal torture chamber where sinners will be burning like charcoals forever in a lake of fire called hell. As if the hell in this earthly life wasnt enough He is going to torture billions of people vastly worse in th next life forever. He is a MONSTER. The Fundamentalist God is evil and the Calvinist God of predestination is uniminaginably evil. Thats why I prefer Dualism and the God of Dualism. Thats why I prefer the God of Gnosticism, Manicheism, and Zoroastrianism. The God of Dualism is weak but He is at least good and sane.The God of Monism which would describe the Fundamentalist God and the Calvinist God is powerful but He is evil or partly evil, insane, irrational, unreasoning, and stupid. The God of Monism is an immoral insane psychopathic idiot. He is a CRIMINAL. Thats why I live in fear. I live in fear of going to hell. The Bible God is not totally evil but He is partly evil. Being partly evil is scary enough. Hes a Jekyll and Hyde. He was in Mr. Hyde mode when He cursed and punished the entire world for Adam and Eve eating a forbidden fruit and when He killed millions of people and killed billions of animals in the Bible and He was in Mr. Hyde mode when He created ebola, malaria, cancer, tooth decay, stonefish,ticks,fleas,lice, hurricanes, tsunamis. The Mr.Hyde within Him continues to allow rampant suffering death sin and evil. If He is really all good all mighty all wise loving merciful etc then why dosent He act like it? Why does He behave like an insane cruel violent psychopath on one hand and a remote aloof disconnected silent hidden absentee landlord on the other hand. When He intervenes He behaves in a cruel manner or He doesnt intervene at all and chooses to remain hidden silent(absentee landlord.) Its disgraceful embarrassing behavior for a God. The creation is being misrun mismanaged and neglected. Its a pitiful execuse for a God. Its pathetic. This Bible God is the biggest dunce and screwup who cant do much of anything right. This God wrote the book on How to screw and ruin your creation. He ruined His creation and has allowed it to remain ruined. He doesnt know how to help and He doesnt know how to heal and He has no solution to offer us. Bungle goof screwup failure deadbeat and absentee landlord. For shame. For shame. Its a blind God who cannot see and who cannot comprehend the cruelty immorality insanity wrong and stupidity of what He does and what He allows. Anyway these hubsites are interesting and I have discovered interesting and intelligent people here such as Slarty o Brian, Titen-sxull and Karthikkash. Ive written also about Cryptozoology and unexplained phenomena and literature and movies. Thank you gentleman.
Karthik Kashyap from India on August 16, 2013:
The Jewish god was no better than the Christian god. One needs to remember that Jesus was a Jew and taught Judaism and not Christianity. Christianity as a religion didn't exist till the 4th century. Till then, whatever was taught in the name of Christianity was Judaism in its corrupted manner. That means both the Jewish god Jehovah and the Christian god were the same.
Jehovah was a complete evil being who ruled his "chosen people" with total tyranny. His goodness was limited to sparing lives of those who washed his feet and drank that water, nothing else. Even they weren't spared for committing the slightest of the crimes. There are numerous occasions in the Talmud where he commands his people to kill his own chosen people because they did something wrong. He also punishes those who worshiped him because they deviated slightly from his commands. They were also punished without any mistakes, just because he "felt-so".
The monotheistic gods came only from Judaism. Every other older religions were polytheistic. There is no mention what-so-ever where they fought in the name of god. On the contrary, all their gods were same, just known by different names in different regions. The world before Jehovah came in was in actual balance, where cultures flourished and civilizations were making great progress in terms of knowledge and culture.
It is funny when one reads about the 'Kaliyuga' in the Hindu texts, where the Hindu god Vishnu warns humans about the ending of the golden age and the beginning of all types of evil becoming rampant. Funnily, it is around the same time, Judaism and monotheistic religions started flourishing and the blood-shed around the world in the name of god, which is going on even today started. I often wonder if it is was just a coincidence, or was really the evil Vishnu had warned.
anonymous on August 10, 2013:
There are way better sources of morality than the Bible such as Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol and King Grizzlebeard. The Old Testament is immoral. The New Testament has some good morals in it such as feeding the hungry and the Good Samaritan and the parable of the lost sheep and the good shepherd. The rest of it is contradictory and out of touch with reality and stupid and mean spirited. Jesus telling people to pluck out their eyes and cut off their hands for having natural lustful thoughts is stupidity and insanity. Thats not moral advice. The fairy tale The Happy Prince by Oscar Wilde has the best morals of any story I know of and is morally superior to anything in the Old Testament and is morally superior to 98 percent of whats in the New Testament. Both the Statue of the Happy Prince and the Swallow do all they can to help others. Its about love kindness caring altruism and sacrifice. The poor Swallow dies of cold and starvation by choosing to stay with the Happy Prince when he could have migrated to Egypt. Its a very sad story. The Happy Prince and the Swallow are two of the most loving kind and moral characters and the story of The Happy Prince is morally superior and wiser and more intelligent than 98 percent of whats written in the entire Bible. If one wants moral guidance and moral advice then The Happy Prince is the best example. There is no better moral advice than this story by Oscar Wilde. Immorality outweighs morality in the Bible and stupidity outweighs wisdom in the Bible and cruelty outweighs kindness in the Bible. Insanity outweighs sanity in the Bible. The Biblical God has no common sense and He has no reasoning. Its IMPOSSIBLE to reason with this God. He is devoid of rationality and devoid of sanity. He is immoral or amoral. The Bible God is a personification of the contradictions and contrasts of Nature or morally ambivalent. As I wrote before He has a Jekyll and Hyde personality which most religious folks either dont see or choose not to see. Isahaia chapter 45 verse 7 says I create light and darkness and I make peace and create evil.(King James Bible.) Other Bible translations substitute the word evil with either disaster calamity catastrophe woe misery etc. Isnt disaster just one synonym for evil? Churchmen ignore this verse. The Bible God is cruel amoral like the Nature He created. He is mentally blind and morally blind. The Bible God is an unreasoning cruel insane monster. I live in fear. Moral man is morally superior wiser and more humane than this God of the Bible. Despite this I remain a Christian and I thank God for Jesus Christ to atone for human sin. I remain a Christian and encourage everyone else to be a Christian. My faith has weakened but its not dead. The Bible God is not totally bad. He also has a kind good loving side. Lets accept Jesus Christ as savior an give thanks to God. My fears and questions will continue but I remain a Christian. Thsnk you for allowing me to write.
anonymous on August 10, 2013:
We're told by religious folks that God's ways are mysterious and unknowable and this justifies God in allowing evil and suffering. Us humans just dont know and just arent smart enough to understand God's unknowable ways. Here's the problem. God may have an unknowable reason or reasons for allowing evil and suffering but how do we know that its a morally justifiable reason or reasons? Is this unknowable reason a rational reason? Is it a sane reason? Does it reconcile with God's attributes for being omnibenevolent omnipotent and omniscient? Its up to God to prove this to us but He chooses to keep silent and secret and He chooses to leave us in endless suspense and ignorance and lets us endlessly specualte and agonize about it. This is more cruelty irrationality and insanity on His part. A loving medciful God would at least have the decency or the courtesy to explain to us why the world is the horror movie and dungheap that it is. But no He cbooses to remain sikent and hidden. If we dont know then tell us so do know. If we dont understand then tell us so we do understand. Enlighten me God. Im listening. Why wont He tell us the reason? Why didnt He make us smarter? Why didnt He give us better brains so we could understand His unknowable reason? So this God is going to send people to hell in part for not being smart enough to understand His unknowable ways. So if Im not smart enough to understand why God allows evil and suffering ad nauseam ad infinitum and if I remain angry at Him for this then I end up in hell. It sick. Its beyond sick. So people are going to end up in hell for being angry at God for allowing evil and suffering and because people just arent smart enough to understand God's mysterious unknowable reason. Is this not disgusting? The Bible God is an irrational insane unjust unreasoning immoral amoral negligent incompetent monster whose cruelty is limitless. Its a nightmare God. Author C.S. Lewis knew a friend named "Doc" who in 1923 started to go insane from a fear of hell. The poor man was convinced he was headed for hell and he had raving fits and was put in a mental hospital where he soon died. This fear of hell has caused a hell on earth. Religion has caused as much misery as it has benefitted people. Satan the Devil rules this screwed up world and not a loving God. If a loving God exists then He cannot be in control of whats going on in the world. A deficient God and an evil demonic Devilish Satanic force best explains this screwed up world. Otherwise its IMPOSSIBLE to explain the rampant evils cruelties miseries and horrors which go on daily in the world since time immemorial and impossible to explain its Satanic nature. Read the hubsite Horror movies/Horror movies show us the dark negative side by Buzzbee where I write about movies such as Rosemary's Baby and The Exorcist. The real world is a horror movie as is history.
anonymous on August 10, 2013:
I continue. This God irresponsibly and stupidly allows overpopulation. So the trash and dung piles to the sky and time is wasted sitting in traffic. Negligence incompetence. This God is the biggest screwup imaginable. Thousands to millions of years of suffering death evil sin. For years Ive been tormented by nightmares nesrly every time I sleep. This world is a nightmare and a horror movie and the Devil directs it and rules it. I fear going to hell. An eternal torture chsmber with fire worms suffocation excrement demons and Satan. One of the biggest fears I have is being buried alive whether its inside a coffin a vault a hole in the ground etc. Suffocation and claustrophobia. A bigger fear I have is that in the next life I will find myself in an enclosed environment where I cannot move and where I cannot free myself and nobody can save me. In other words I fear I will be buried alive in the next life forever. Suffocation and claustrophobia are as bad as intense pain from fire. Its horrific beyond belief. Some sources say that in hell theres a feeling of being buried alive and theres suffocation in addition to being tortured by fire. This is criminal cruelty beyond words. Its monstrously cruel beyond description. Im going to end up in a mental hospital from fear. This God chooses the cruelest forms of torture to punish human sin. Sick monstrous sadistic diabolic fiendish criminal malevolent cruelty worse than any horror movie. Fire is monstrously cruel and being buried alive is monstrously cruel and suffocation is monstrously cruel. Dont do this God. There are more merciful humane intelligent and constructive ways to punish human sin than this which are open to God. It seems this God created people to torture them. I live in fear.
anonymous on August 10, 2013:
Much of the Bible is an embarrassment to me. In Ezekeil God tells His chosen people to eat bread mixed with dung and to smear dung on their faces. We are in Looneyville. This is a loving God? You would think an omnipotent omnibenevolennt omniscient God could do a better job in providing for His chosen people. At least give them bagels. No He gives them Dungcakes. Its laughable but its also sad and disturbing. If this is supposed to be a punishment for sin then its another form of cruelty which this God engages in. When it comes to cruelty this God is an overachiever. He can come up with more kinds of torture than any human being can dream of. He created a thousand different diseases a million species of venomous pests and thousands of kinds of poisons and thousands of species of parasites. Physical ugliness insanity birth defects intense heat intense cold predation droughts floods blindness deafness etc continue to cause suffering. Much of the animal kingdom and much of humanity is carnivorous or partly carnivorous. That means theres violence carnage killing death everywhere all the time. With the increase in human population means more animals have to be slaughtered as well as more pollution and more extinctions and more starvation. Cruelty disease violence killing death and negligence are His ways. He knows no better. I
anonymous on August 10, 2013:
I truly feel something is amiss with this God. The Bible God is a mishmash hodgepodge of contradictions. He is petty morally arbitrary egomaniacal megalomaniacal unreasoning unkind ruthless merciless and cruel beyond belief. I personally believe that God has a mental short circuit and cannot see or cannot understand the cruelty the wrong the immorality the insanity and the stupidity of what He does and in what He ALLOWS. I complain to Him and others have complained to Him but its just not sinking in. The message is just not registering. This is what I mean when I say God is MENTALLY blind and MORALLY blind. Its a blind unintelligible God who cannot see sin in the suffering and evil He allows. It just doesn't seem to occur to this mentally challenged and morally challenged God that He ought to start healing this cursed broken creation. This screwed up world isnt going to heal by itself. God has to heal it or there is no hope. If this God doesn't heal this screwed up deeply sick world soon then happiness in this world isnt going to be worth a can of beans. Wake up God. This God needs to start being responsible. Unfortunately this God has no common sense and has no reasoning. Its a deadbeat for a God. He just folds His hands and allows all manner of sin evil and suffering to continue ad nauseam ad infinitum. This is not love. This is not morality. This is not wisdom. This is negligence irrationality insanity stupidity incompetence laziness cruelty blindness. Children of a stupid God we are. He has no pity no morals and no conscience. This God is a psychopath and a dunce. A clam has more sense than this God of the Bible. This God has 42000 people killed because they could not correctly pronounce the word shibboleth. Can someone say insane? This God frowns on sins and crimes and yet He commits them all. He orders killing torture genocides. He threatens people with turning into cannibals and baby eating. He threatens people with having their women ravished or raped and having their belongings pillaged or stolen. Torture violence killing rape stealing cannibalism. And He sanctions slavery and animal sacrifices. He punishes the entire community for the sins of a single person and He punishes children for the sins of their parents and He punishes parents for the sins of their children and He punishes animals for the sins of human beings and He punishes the entire world for all time for Adam and Eve's sin. He PUNISHES PUNISHES PUNISHES and His punishments are monstrous cruel inhumane disproportionate and beyond what we can imagine. He engages in overkill to make a point. He gives us free will and then punishes us for misusing this free will. I have written before that no one has total free will. Nature nurture genetics and environmental conditions also dictates and determines human behavior. How can we have total free will if Adam and Eve's sin corrupted and ruined human nature? How can we have total free will if Satan and demons influence and corrupt human behavior? This God expects moral perfection from imperfect creatures and then He punishes us for failing to be perfect. He punishes us for being what Nature has made us to be. He expects us to have blind faith and blind trust in Him and to love Him and worship Him and believe Jesus and believe the Bible literally and to keep all the commandments. He threatens people with hell who are unable to meet all these requirements. A God who is this cruel irresponsible negligent insane and stupid is hard to love and hard to worship. Its pretty much impossible for me to have blind faith and blind trust in such a screwup and in such a deadbeat for a God. God loves us? A God who allows eons of suffering death and evils is not loving. The word love becomes meaningless and the word good becomes meaningless when applied to this mentally challenged and morally challenged God. Humans are born incurably sick(born with original sin from Adam and Eve) and are forced under threat of death and eternal damnation to get well. This is not morality. This is INSANITY. The Bible God is certifiably insane.
dnd0ps from Singapore on April 09, 2013:
I think it's interesting, the whole concept of god. As Ayn Rand puts it, "[T]he person who loves everybody and feels at home everywhere is the true hater of mankind. He expects nothing of men, so no form of depravity can outrage him."
Sounds familiar doesnt it?
tebo from New Zealand on April 06, 2013:
Hi Slarty O'Brien. You have obviously done a lot of research in to this subject. I have recently read a small part of the bible because I wanted to know what was in it. I started at the beginning as I said I always would. Genesis - it infuriated me and I had to put it aside because I too could not understand why God would put the tree there and say don't touch it. Then because they did touch it why on earth would he condemn mankind to pain and misery because of two peoples actions. Not very god like or forgiving as we are led to believe God is. And as for Noah and the ark fiasco whereby God killed off all people and animals just because a few people got up his nose is incredible. The other thing that doesn't make any sense to me is the idea that if you do not believe in God then upon your death you will be condemned to hell for an eternity. How cruel and unforgiving is that? For one thing many non believers are far better people than some believers and would have lived kinder and more compassionate lives. I am saying some here and I am not generalizing. I know there are some very good christian and other religious denominations of people, but there are some who think they can do no wrong because they believe in God, and sometimes this belief makes them think anything they do is good.
anonymous on April 06, 2013:
Im wrong? Really? So you know better. Be an atheist? This is your advice to me? And you call yourself religious? You say pain helps us to see the face of God. Whew. Thats certainly not my God. My God isnt cruel and my God doesnt expect us to suffer. YOUR idea of God is that of a masochist. Does it occur to you that pain and horrific suffering and horrific evils have turned people AWAY from God and have caused anger disappointment heresy apostasy blasphemy agnosticism atheism and even to Satanism? Have you read about what some of the Jews in the Holocaust said and wrote when they felt God abandon them to their fate? Ive watched on youtube about a Satanist who said that one of his reasons for becoming a Satanist was because of his anger at God for allowing his mother to suffer and die from some horrible disease. Hmmm. So if God uses pain and suffering in order to draw people closer to Him then this God is a bungler and the pain which He uses or allows is driving people AWAY from Him. Isnt this obvious? Some kinds of pain and some kinds of suffering are so monstrously horrific that it cannot be justified. Gruesome car accidents and gruesome crimes where victims are decapitated with their organs and blood splattered and victims of premature burial who suffer from the horrors of suffocation and claustrophobia can never be justified. Come on. The world is a hellhole and a horror movie and its unconscionable to allow this crap. Allowing cancer aneurysm heart disease stroke ebola river blindness centipedes stonefish the Holocaust the tortures which thousands fell victim to during the Middle Ages Witch Hunts 9/11 hurricanes tsunamis premature burial starvation drowning loneliness gruesome car accidents gruesome crimes is immoral cruel insane and wrong to allow. What about the countless animals wild and tame which suffer and die by one horrific fate or another? Do suffering animals see the face of God? Animals dont deserve to suffer and neither can they be improved by it. Its YOU who is wrong. You're a masochist and your God is a masochist. My God isnt cruel and my God doesnt expect us to suffer. My God isnt cruel. Im sorry about yours.
Rebecca Furtado from A Cornfied in the Midwest on April 06, 2013:
Lol sometimes we are uplifted when brought down, and we are only 'seen ' when we are missing. The glorious fact that love blooms even in very poor soil just makes what your saying wrong. Pain helps us see the face of God, and move beyond pain to perfect joy. Be an Atheist. Your view of child is childish in a way that does not inspire Child-like chosen submission.
anonymous on April 06, 2013:
Pain and suffering are part of love? So when God inflicts or allows cancer malaria anthrax ebola starvation loneliness etc this is His "love"? Ahem. This is insanity. The Christian religion is a masochistic one where suffering is acceptable and encouraged because we're all expected to suffer like Jesus and we're all expected to be martyrs like Jesus. Its out of touch with reality and its insanity. Inflicting or allowing cancer malaria ebola starvation loneliness is not love. Its cruelty insanity and negligence. Thats not my God. My God isnt cruel. My God isnt insane. My God doesnt expect us to be masochists and martyrs.
Rebecca Furtado from A Cornfied in the Midwest on April 06, 2013:
I am a hopeless romantic. Pain and suffering are part of love. Every mother who ever gave birth knows this. True love endures much and forgives great cruelty. It burst forth and is if there is a God energy it is it's very definition transforming the darkest part of human nature into that which is passionate and enduring. The human Spirit supports love in the darkest circumstance and that to me is "God".
anonymous on April 06, 2013:
To Beccas blog and Get thin for good. You say that lots of people on this blog need medication. Correction. Only one person on this blog needs medication and thats me the anonymous guy who is writing about God the Devil evil and suffering etc. All the comments you see above you by anonymous is written by only one guy and thats me. What did you think ten different people have written? No its just one guy and not a whole gallery of people. Isnt it obvious from the subject matter and from the writing style that its just one guy which is me. I post as anonymous everywhere I write because the world is dangerous and full of criminals and I fear for my safety. I have written at many other websites about a variety of subjects whether its about God the Devil religion philosophy loneliness movies cryptozoology or unknown animals unexplained phenomena of many kinds travel zoology etc. I have written extensively about evil and suffering on several websites including this one. I need medication and do take medication for mental illness ocd depression and chemical imbalance. It doesnt help much. Im physically ugly and I dont have a girlfriend and I suffer from intense endless loneliness. This is just one example of evil and suffering I write about. You say God loves me and God is loving. If He loves me and if He is as loving as you say He is then why does He allow me to suffer and why does He allow millions of other people to suffer whether its from disease starvation loneliness pollution crimes disasters car accidents genocides venomous snake bites slavery etc? Allowing evil suffering sin and death ad nauseam ad infinitum is not love. Its cruelty negligence incompetence insanity. This God needs to start being rational and He needs to start being responsible and He needs to start being humane. He needs to start healing this cursed screwed up broken creation. Things arent going to heal by itself. God has to heal it. Otherwise theres no hope. This God has abdicated the world to the Devil and the Devil rules the world and the world is a hellhole and a horror movie. My Christian faith has weakened but its not dead. I still love God and Jesus. Thank you for reading.
Rebecca Furtado from A Cornfied in the Midwest on April 06, 2013:
A point to get thin for good, many people have a relationship with God that they not identy as a Christian God similar to the one you have. I have no problem with religious faith , just the unexamined faith. Yes , dichotomy is part of the human spirit and projected on any thing we define in the world and in what we precieve as Spiritual.
Claire Carradice from Western Cape, South Africa on April 06, 2013:
I have been in a relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ, for the last 13 years.
While you present many interesting points, for which I can't think of any clever response, I have to say that my God, this God you write of, is a good and kind and merciful God. I love my Lord because He first loved me.
He is the air I breathe, the beauty I see, the water I need. He is my everything and I adore Him with all my heart. He heals my sorrows, He loves me, cares for me, talks to me, encourages me.
I don't know Him to be a cruel God at all - not even to those who don't follow Him. In fact, I know without a doubt that He loves you beyond measure, even while you say bad things about Him. Now that is love, isn't it?
Rebecca Furtado from A Cornfied in the Midwest on April 06, 2013:
Wow. lots of people need medication on this hub lol... It can all be summed up rather simply.. God is usally a projection of universal traits that humans have. We are fiercely complex and hopelessly ironic..just like our God.. and really now no struggle, no passion , no art, and would that not be a real hell...l
Theophanes Avery from New England on April 05, 2013:
That is OK. We are all guilty of typos. I was just providing a polite correction.
That is quite a list of interests and writings... Not all religions believe in Satan, demons, or negative entities. In fact many like to dwell in the light. I don't see clouds as being satanic anymore than I think having the virgin Mary or Jesus appear on a tortilla is a sign from god. Our brains are good at finding faces - even when we're not staring at an actual face. It's called matrixing.
Anyway, there is much in this world that has yet to be explained. Blaming things on Satan comes from fear. People condemn things they do not understand. I don't think anything is truly good or evil - it is what we chose to make of it.
anonymous on April 05, 2013:
Dear Theophanes thank you for the comment. I believe that those errors I typed were just careless mistskes or my hand accidentally pressed the wrong buttons and the computer records what I wrote before I get a chance to correct myself. The buttons on my computer are very small and so close to eachother that every 10 seconds of typing I press the wrong button and have to go back and correct myself. The faster I type the more the typo mistakes. I have also written in parts two and three for this Hubsite The Cruelty of the Christian God. Ive also written for Hubsites such as Gods damned creation Yahweh is Evil and Ive written about Satan the Devil and demons and about unexplained phenomena. Ive written for Karl Shukers website also which is about Cryptozoology or unknown animals such as Nessie and the dinosaur like Mokele Mbembe of the African Congo. The afterlife ESP Lucid dreaming out of body experience near death experience Theosophy the Astral Planes of existence Spiritualism telekinesis clairvoyance clairaudience the homing ability of dogs cats horses and pigeons time travel other worlds other universes fairies ghosts poltergeists and hauntings are of interest to me. Authors David Icke Loren Coleman Karl Shuker Brad Steiger and Fate and Fortean Times magazines are of interest. I have had unusual experiences of the supernatural kind such as hearing voices while sleeping on several different occasions between 2004 to 2011. Some of these voices were Satanic in nature and horrific. Poltergeist activity has also occurred at my home with a light being turned on by no one and a battery operated monster toy on one occasion made a sound by itself without anyone pressing its button and my shirt and my blanket was pulled off of me by something invisible while lying awake in bed. Evidence for the supernatural would be anomalous cloud formations in the sky forming words and faces. There is a photo of an anomalous cloud formation in the book Rough Guide to Unexplained Phenomena by authors Bob Ricard and John Michelle. An unknown photographer in 1990 took a photo of the Statue of Liberty from a distance and gazing down at the Statue is a cloud formation showing the left side of a human looking face. An eye a nose and a mouth can clearly be seen. The face looks sinister and evil or sort of Satanic. Two upcurved horns are at the top of its head. It has an evil smile. Theres something Satanic and sinister about it. If this isn't a fake then this would be proof that the supernatural is real. Could aliens have something to do with this? Religious folks would say that these are demonic or Satanic manifestastions. Of course clouds cant form faces or words by itself so its the Devil or demons who are doing it goes their logic. For Fundamentalist Christians every unexplained phenomena is demonic or Satanic deception and manipulation whether its aliens anomalous cloud formations near death experiences spiritualism telekinesis fairies ghosts poltergeists hauntings etc. Recall the movie Carrie where Carrie's religious fanatic mother is convinced that Carrie's awesome telekinetic power is coming straight from Satan. "You've got Satan's power." says the Fundamentalist mother. I dont believe that all unexplained phenomena is Satanic or demonic. Some of them are such as Dungeons and Dragons and the sick disturbed book the Necronomicon is certainly Satanic and I would avoid it. Ouija boards are considered gateways to the demonic as in horror movies such as The Exorcist. If one sees a ghost its really a demon in disguise trying to deceive people to lure them away from Christianity. Some ghosts maybe demonic but not all of them. Ley lines time slips teleportation and interdimensional entities are also of interest to me. As for God I dont know what kind of God this is.
Theophanes Avery from New England on April 05, 2013:
God is what you make of him. You could read these stories as being barbaric and cruel or you could just sit back and realize that these stories were written by man not god. In fact there was no cohesive bible until literally 400+ years after Jesus' death. There were a LOT of stories wandering around - people with political gain edited out the ones they didn't want their subordinates to learn. That's why we have the dead Sea Scrolls and other discoveries like the Gospel of Judas, tucked away in pots in the desert from antiquity. These editors were hiding something, it was an attempt to control the people. This has nothing to do with god.
And as for Adam and Eve... they're not talking about an apple in that story. Apples and pomegranates have long been used as a metaphor for sex. Eve didn't eat an apple, she screwed Adam, and being humans they enjoyed it! Christian god has always had a lot of hang-ups about sex, he probably should have created an asexual species, but then again is it really god who is at fault here or whoever's recounting the story? Whoever it is might be imbibing it with their own prejudices. As I said before God didn't come down and write the Bible... the Bible has many anonymous authors who wrote over the span of hundreds of years. I realize this historical fact is one that many Christians refuse to acknowledge but it is the truth.
I enjoyed your article but there's two wee little errors that popped out. You wrote gad at one point and "got to hell." I usually don't provide corrections but this piece was so well written they popped out like neon lights. Anyway, I enjoyed the read. Please continue to share.
anonymous on April 04, 2013:
Yes pantheism is the belief that the entire universe is God. You raise interesting subjects such as the Book of Enoch and the Watchers or fallen angels. To the Gnostics Yahweh is an inferior flawed being who is one oc the emanations of the true God but is not the true God. In Gnosticism there is a feminine aspect to the deity. Sophia is said to have given birth to Yahweh who is really an angel but who distanced Himself from the true God and who arrogantly claimed He was the only God and who created the world and universe. The snake in the Garden of Eden was sent to save humanity from this Yahweh or Demiurge who wanted to keep humanity ignorant and captive. In the Kabbala and the Zohar there is a complex abstract teaching about the Godhood being composed of emanations. God has 10 emanations and one of them is Din or stern judgment which is believed to be the source of evil within God. So the explanation for why an all good God would create or allow evil and suffering goes something like this according to the Kabbala: Within God there is no evil but within His emanations or within one of His emanations called Din(stern judgment) the source of evil is to be found here. In other words if I understand this abstract concept correctly the source and cause of evil and suffering is from a DEPRECIATED aspect of God and is INDIRECTLY and probably UNINTENTIONALLY derived from God. Evil and suffering then arises from a fragmented disconnected fractured splintered broken depreciated part of God and not directly from God. The best analogy I can give is a driver whose car runs over and kills. The driver may not have intended to cause injury and death but He is still responsible for it albeit accidentally THROUGH HIS CAR. A TRAUMA in the Divine sphere or an accident caused the origin of evil and suffering from the Godhood. The Kabbala is very abstract and abstruse and I only have a vague understanding of it. The Bible has the Father Son and Holy Ghost or the Trinity but it says nothing about God having emanations. The Bible does say that both good and evil come from God as can be seen in His behavior and in the Nature He created. I have pointed out before that Yahweh or the Biblical God has a Jekyll and Hyde personality or is morally ambivalent. Fundamentalist Christians will say the Kabbala is heresy and is Satanic deception and lies. For Fundamentalists anything outside the Bible is Satanic deception and lies. The problem is that the Bible itself is a problem full of vagueness and contradictions. Each Cburch and each denomination claims only they are right and everyone else is wrong. So we don't know who the true church is if there is such a thing and no one understands the Bible in its entirety. So interpreting the Bible and salvation becomes an enie meeni minie mo guessing game. We don't know whose team this God is on and each Church and each denomination claims that only they are right and saved. The Bible has caused and continues to cause massive disagreement division contradiction confusion. Why cant this God communicate with people in a clear manner for all to understand? Is that asking too much? Apparently yes. This division and confusion over the Bible and over religion is another example of this God's bungling incompetence and failure. Its an embarrassment. According to hardcore Fundamentalist Christians the mass of humanity including many Christians are doomed to hell. Even those who call themselves Christians will not be saved if they fail ro correctly interpret the Bible and if they fail to believe the entire Bible or if they fail to belong to the true church and for Catholics if they fail to become baptized and if they fail to lead a Christian life. One group of Christians claim that one needs works to be saved and not just faith in Christ alone while another group of Christians claim that faith in Christ alone is necessary for salvation without any works. Th Christian community is a divided confused contradictory Tower of Babel with each church and each denomination yelling something different. We don't really know who if anyone of these churches and denominations is the true one so we don't know whose team this God is on. Its embarrassing aggravating frustrating and it makes me angry and scared. I think its unfair to be sent to hell because one couldn't understand how to interpret the Bible which really is impossible to interpret. The meaning of the Bible has long been lost with the long dead authors who wrote the Bible. To add to the confusion people cant even agree on which English translation is the correct one as ancient Hebrew Greek and Larin were the original languages of the Bible and trying to figure out each word and trying to translate it in English is an enormously complex strenuous and tedious task. Latin was one of the languages written in early versions of the Bible. I hope to read the Nag Hamadi scrolls which contain Gnostic writings.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on April 04, 2013:
Well the Gnostics take on things is interesting and it comes from the Babylonian idea that there was a fallen god so to speak, and he was shunned by the other gods because he told humans that he was the only god. I think his name was Ya or something like that. He became Baal’s arch enemy. The Jews saw Baal as the evil one, but in the Babylonian pantheon he was the top god.
I am not saying that conclusively Ya became the Jewish god, but there is this ancient rivalry that has been going on for a long time. Did the believers in Baal tell the story because they knew of the Jews who believed in only one god?
It is funny then that the Christians have a myth that tells of a fallen angel who’s crime was believing he was as powerful as god, or to be taken as seriously.
The Jews did not have that idea. Partially where it comes from is Enoch which is not part of the Jewish cannon, which tells us of a group of watchers, satans, who mate with humans and cause the great flood. But all of them were buried for eternity under a mountain, I think. That or underground. I’ll have to read that part of it again sometime.
The other place Christians get their idea of satan is from a lament for a City called Tyre, who’s prince thought himself above god, and a king who was a tyrant. Somehow this prince of darkness, perhaps even a real figure of the time, is confused with proof of a devil in the bible. Clearly there is nowhere in the bible that tells us that an angel fell from grace. All of the references to this are extra biblical, yet the Christians have accepted it as cannon. Another reference sited as telling us about the devil falling from grace is actually said by the Jews to refer to Adam, not a devil. But the Christians just keep believing their own home made myths about a devil, created by the Romans.
However, all of the Babylonian myths as well as most of the world’s pantheons, and even the Jewish myths come from the Sumerians. Abraham lived in UR which was a Sumerian city. He was not Sumerian, he was Semitic Hebrew. The Sumerians were the first culture in the western world and they attracted the Semitic tribes who they allowed to live with them.
They believed that there was one uber-god. He was perfect and not interested in creating anything but a mate for himself. He did create a goddess for himself and was happy with that. But she wanted more and she created the gods, from him, and with his permission. But it was much later that Innana and Enki created mankind out of different colours of clay and breathed life into them. They had to destroy their first few prototypes. Eventually they got it sort of right. But they didn’t care that we weren’t perfect. They wanted to make us so we would dredge the rivers for them and do other menial tasks around the earth. The original god doesn’t know or care about creation. But some god do like us and help us, while others don’t like us much and sometimes make our lives miserable.
In one story Eve, known as the goddess of the rib, was created to heal the rib wounds of one of the gods and help restore him to health. Eve was a tree or plant. The Sumerians had all kinds of gods that were trees when incarnate on earth, including a tree of life and a tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
They even have a story about a goddess Who finds a snake in her favourite tree. Also living inside the tree was Lilith, often talked about in non-cannon Judaism as the first wife of Adam. The British Museum has a copper or bronze cylinder seal that depicts a god offering fruit to a goddess who is under a tree. There is a snake in the tree. On the island they also found a lot of mummified snakes. Scholars think it is the scene of a Sumerian snake cult.
Remember that all these cultures knew each other and had a lot of relationships with each other. They even inter married.
Each mainly used word of mouth to retell these stories, and each eventually told them in their own way. Had we still had the other ten tribes of Israel to draw from instead of the two that created Judaism under king David and the united monarchy: The tribe of Judah and the tribe of Benjamin, we would probably have several versions of the Hebrew stories.
The gods are myth created by humans with a fertile imagination and a lot to learn and explain. I see no evidence of a god or gods, so I have to assume that there is no god required, and that the nature of existence is a creative process sufficient to create all this with all it’s wonder and all its faults.
Creativity always comes from conflict and trying to find resolution. No conflict, no reason to create. By conflict I mean imbalance as well as war or trouble. Any need causes imbalance that needs to rebalanced, and usually the end result of that process is a new balance with new values. A new order.
If you call it god you could say god is in trouble. We are a manifestation of it’s troubles, and it solves us one at a time by creating individuals. Therefore the trouble we have is gods trouble, and the creative solutions we find help bring balance.
The ultimate goal is not to be ruled by a god, but to create a god-state or state of absolute perfection. Which will never happen, of course.
I don’t just mean humans, I mean all things are part of this process.
You will also note that I am using metaphor. God =nature of existence. And there is some scientific basis for this idea that nature tends toward trying to find a form of perfection by constantly creating complexity from simplicity using very simple rules.
Just another idea to ponder.
Have you ever heard of Pantheism?
anonymous on April 04, 2013:
I got cut off again. Matter Nature and the creation taken as a whole is neither totally evil and its neither totally good but its a mix of good and evil or ambivalent. Contrasts and contradictions make up the world and universe. I have to believe as a traditional Christian that the true God is the Old Testament Yahweh who is the Father of Jesus. Im angry and disappointed at this God for many reasons. One of the reasons Im aney with Him is because this God has forgotten to give women a heart. Nearly all women are unfriendly uncaring unkind vain aloof selfish. I suffer from endless loneliness as Im physically ugly and mentally ill. Why wont God help me? Why cant or why wont this God open up the mind and open up the heart to just one woman to be my friend? Is that too freaking much to ask? Apparently yes. This God doesn't know how to provide for His creatures and Has no moral obligation to help us and has no moral obligation to heal us and yet He expects us to have blind faith blinf trust and He expects us to love Him and worship Him. Its unworthy of our faith and trust and unworthy of worship. This God is a negligent irresponsible cruel immoral amoral mentally blind morally blind unfair unjust unkind unwise unintelligent unreasoning irrational insane cruel stupid being. Hes probably going to send me to hell for saying these things. This God's cruelty and negligence is such that He DRIVES us to get angry at Him and He DRIVES us to rebel against Him and then Hes going to punish His creatures in hell forever. Its sick. Its a deeply sick disturbed God. This God has abdicated the world to the Devil and His allowing evil and suffering and sin benefits the Devil. This God has allowed Satan to win and allows Satan to rule this world. How else to explain the rampant evils cruelties miseries and horrors in the world and how else to explain its Satanic nature than to acknowledge that an evil force or forces are behind it and ruling it? Either God allows evil or God is not in control of whats going on in the world. If God allows it then its called Monism. If God is not in control then its called Dualism. Either way its a deficient God who is deficient in some manner and either way people and animals are screwed and either way its a win for the Devil. God's deficiency is the Devil's opportunity. I have to believe in Yahweh as the true God and accept Jesus as savior. Otherwise Im threatened by being roasted like charcoals in hell forever. I live in fear.This world is like a horror movie and Satan the Devil is directing it and ruling it. My life is a nightmare and I suffer from nightmares nearly everytime I sleep.
anonymous on April 04, 2013:
Ive been reading about Gnosticism and its at odds with traditional Christianity Judaism Islam and its at odds with Roman Catholicism and its at odds with Protestantism. Gnostics are divided into Jewish Christian and Hermetic categories and also into no category. Gnosis means knowledge and a lot of its teachings are mythical. Not all Gnostics agree with eachother but all Gnostics are at odds with traditional Christianity. Some count Marcion as a Gnostic as his teachings were radically different from mainstream Christianity. Marcionism Manicheism the older Zoroastrianism and Gnosticism are all more or less Dualistic religions in that they believe that an equally powerful evil being or evil force(Satan or Ahriman or the Devil and fallen angels or demons or Archons) are to blame for evil and suffering in the world. Gnostics believe that the true good God is not the Yahweh of the Bible. The God of the Bible is seen as an inferior incompetent flawed ignorant being who along with 7 Archons or powerful angelic beings created the world and universe with all its evils cruelties and defects. The Old Testament God or Yahweh is seen as the Demiurge who created matter. The true good God has nothing to do with matter according to Gnostics.Gnostics saw the Old Testament God as cruel evil incompetent arrogant ignorant who arrogantly claimed Himself to be God when in reality there was a higher God above Him. The Gnostic God dwells in light and is unable to penetrate this world of matter according to Gnostics. In my opinion the Gnostic God is a vast improvement over the Yahweh of the Old Testament and does not have the disgraceful behavior and history of inflicting violence carnage barbarism genocides and sacrifices which Yahweh engages in. According to Christian Gnostics Jesus came to save us from this Yahweh of the Old Testament and so Yahweh was not the Father of Jesus. The unknown Gnostic God is the true Father of Jesus. Obviously these teachings were and are still considered to be heresies by Roman lCatholics and Protestants. I disagree with the Gnostics in that they hold everything in Nature to be evil. Im not buying that. Yes theres a lot of Natural evil cruelties and defects such as diseases centipedes Cobras Jellyfish Brown Recluse Spiders tapeworms screw worm flies hurricanes tsunamis birth defects tooth decay etc but there are also many good things in Nature as well. Theres also a lot of Natural Good such as songbirds fruits roses dogs horses goats and other friendly lovable animals. There are beautiful landscapes as well and there is wonderful food and drink from Nature. The Gnostics don't see the good in Nature. They only see the evil side of Nature. Matter Nature the creation taken as a whole is ambivalent or a mix of good and evil and the
anonymous on April 03, 2013:
It would be nice to have girls and women in the afterlife who are friendly kind and loving UNLIKE the girls and women here in this earthly life. Ive written elsewhere that Im physically ugly and mentally ill and I don't have a girlfriend. Not in a zillion years will I get one in this cruel screwed up Satanic world. God is unfair injist irresponsible negligent cruel and inhumane for allowing me to suffer from endless loneliness. Its an absentee landlord for a God who doesn't provide for our needs and who refuses to help us and who refuses to heal us. There may not be girls and women in the afterlife for me and I could be just as lonely in the afterlife as I am in this earthly life. God may allow me to suffer from loneliness indefinitely. If that's the case then His cruelty and negligence is forever. But most important to me are to be with my beloved pets and with my beloved family in the afterlife in a gorgeous tropical setting. This would make me happy enough. Ive read that there is no food nor drink of any kind in the afterlife. The spiritual bodies do not require it. For many people such as myself food and drinks are among the joys of life. I don't drink alcohol and I don't drink sodas but I do love fruit juices and fruit smoothies. My idea oc a heaven in the afterlife would be to live in a tropical landscape with fruit trees and with friendly animals and with friendly fairies. Theres no wild place on earth that's safe and that could make me totally happy. When I go to local parks the weather is often bitterly cold and often with strong winds and ticks and mosquitoes pester me for months of the year. Its also disturbing to see fallen leaves broken branches and debris everywhere. Decay degeneration entropy death and bleakness is everywhere for months of the year. Nearly all the animals and birds are scared shy mistrustful and flee when approached. Im looking for a peaceable kingdom where the animals are friendly to people and friendly to eachother. No African savannah where animals tear eachother to pieces for me. No way. And no Amazon jungle where venomous spiders snakes and Centipedes lurk. No way. Im tired of watching Nature documentaries showing violence killing. Im tired of watching Sharks Crocodiles Tigers. Enough is enough. And Im tired of watching Dinosaur movies and documentaries where Dinosaurs tear up eachother and tear up human beings. I hate Jurassic Park and similar movies. My idea of heaven is part peaceable kingdom and part Garden of Eden and part Fairyland. That's something no wild place on earth has. Im interested in lucid dreaming where the dreamer is aware that He or She is dreaming and is able to control the content of their dreams. To be able to dream Im flying under my own power and to dream Im in better places such as the Hawaiian Islands is wonderful. Kauais Napali Coast and Kalalau Valley is one of my favorite places in the world with its fruit trees beaches waterfalls valleys and songbirds. Kalalau Valley has the most majestic scenery in the world. Thank you for allowing me to write.
anonymous on April 03, 2013:
I would like to make a correction. Its not the second and third astral planes I would be happy in but its the sixth fifth and fourth astral planes I would be happy in. In the afterlife in Theosophy which has 7 planes of existence I would be happiest in the 6th and the 5th and the 4th astral planes. Each of these 7 planes of existence have subplanes. The higher subplane of the 6th astral plane is the best for me. I can see my loved ones and I can live in a world of my choosing. In the 6th plane a person can live in a place of his choosing. For me that would be in a place with lush tropical scenery with cute friendly animals. To be with my beloved pets and my beloved family are extremely important. And to be without death without toil without nasty rude people without diseases without venomous pests without violence and killing without loneliness and without pollution are mandatory in the afterlife. Hopefully in the afterlife there will be girls and women who are friendly kind loving and affectionate UNLIKE the girls and women here on earth in this earthly life. Girls and women here on earth in this earthly life are generally unfriendly unkind unapprachable uncaring vain selfish heartless cruel evil. God forgot to give women a heart. Im not so sure this God has a heart and Im not sure this God is sane and Im not sure this God has any reasoning ability. A God who allows eons of misery cruelty and horrors is not right in the head. The Biblical God has no common sense and has no reasoning and does not know how to forgive. All He knows how to do is PUNISH and His punishments are monstrously cruel inhumane disproportionate insane unjust stupid and destructive. Hopefully the real God is good loving rational sane merciful and wise UNLIKE the Biblical God. The God I would like to believe in is good loving merciful and wise UNLIKE the cruel insane irrational unjust monster from the Bible. That's not my God. That's an embarrassment. The Bible is an insult to the good name of God. Thank you for reading.
anonymous on April 02, 2013:
I got cut off by the computer. Fundamentalists say that God is God and we're not to question Him and we're not to complain. We're not allowed to think and we're not allowed to use our intellect and reasoning. The Fundamentalist God is a self centered egomaniac who only cares about us loving Him and worshipping Him and keeping His commandments and believing Jesus. We're all expected to live like religious fanatics masochists and martys like Jesus and we're all expected to be perfect like Jesus (unrealistic) and we all have to suffer and die for the price of free will and Adam and Eves sin. This is unfair unjust cruel and disgusting. Letting Adam and Eves sin e passed on to everybody is unfair irresponsible stupid insane and cruel. And cursing and punishing the entire creation including punishing animals is the height of injustice insanity cruelty and stupidity. Its an asinine belief this doctrine of Original Sin as well as being cruel and unjust. I have to believe the Bible out of fear. The Bible and Jesus threatens humanity with an eternal torture chamber in hell with fire worms excrement suffocation demons and Satan. Authors Mary Baxter and Bill Wiese are two people who claim to habe seen visions of hell. The books they wrote are horrific and it shows a cruel sick sadistic monstrous God. For me I would rather believe in Spiritualism or Theosophy. I would personally be very happy in the 2nd or 3rd Astral Plane in the afterlife. I have to be a Christian and I have to believe the Bible out of fear of going to hell. This God of the Bible is cruel and dangerous and insane. I live in fear.
anonymous on April 02, 2013:
Dear Slarty that was an excellent analysis. Its true that this God of the Bible is an egomaniac who thinks He is above morality and who thinks He is above right and wrong. Because Hes God and creator He thinks that its ok and justified for Him to inflict or allow suffering death and what we would call Evil. His moral standards are different from ours. If God behaves cruelly or negligently then its ok and justifiable say the Fundamentalists since Hes God and Hes the creator and that gives Him the right to do as He pleases and that gives Him the right to be cruel and negligent and because Hes God and creator He is entitled to be worshipped loved and obeyed. Religious folks have it in their heads that God can do no wrong and that Hes perfect. Not so when one reads the Bible objectively which Fundamentalists are unable to. Fundamentalists have a distorted view of morality and will defend justify and execuse the most horrific cruelties to get their God off the hook(theodicy). What does creating quasars pulsars bacteria mountain ranges and tectonic plates have to do with being morally good? God in Job boasts about His creative power but what does that have to do with being morally good and what does that have to do with Job's suffering? The Satan in Job did indeed manipulate God and bamboozle God and yes the Satan acted as doubt. If God was omniscient and knows all things then He would have known how Job woukd have reacted. The Biblical God behaves as if He doesn't know. Consider the loathsome tale of the Passover where God has His chosen people sprinkle blood on their houses so He woukd not confuse killing them as He goes on a rampage killing the Egyptians. What's this? An omniscient God doesn't know who lives in each house? Yikes. The Satan in Job is unknown. In my opinion this Satan is very evil as he inflicts physical torture and killing and suggests the idea to God in the first place. Just how much more cruelty this Satan would have inflicted if God allowed it is frightening to imagine. In Job the theology is part monism as God is allowing the events and God is sovereign but also dualistic because its another cause or Satan who is actually inflicting the evil and suffering and killing. But remember that while Satan killed a few dozen people in the Bible and an unknown number of animals (Job's livestock) God killed MILLIONS of people in the Bible and killed MILLIONS TO BILLIONS of animals in the Bible. Both God and Satan are cruel immoral ruthless monsters and neither one is worthy of worship. Both of them are to be feared. The Biblical God is conscious of Himself and He is an egomaniac without equal. This God cares more about us worshipping Him than He does about the welfare and happiness of His creatures. He doesn't seem to care at all and He doesn't seem to help at all about the rampant suffering and death of people and animals from disease starvation loneliness accidents pollution crime wars disasters etc. Its an absentee landlord for a God. We may as well be praying to a tree trunk. This God is remote aloof disconnected from His creatures and He has abdicated the world to the Devil. He allows Adam and Eves sin to be passed on to ALL future unborn humans and He curses and punishes the ENTIRE world. The whole creation is flushed down the divine toilet so to speak. Hes an unjust unfair unkind unwise unreasoning unforgiving ruthless irresponsible negligent irrational insane stupid cruel monster who has poisoned ruined and screwed His creation. I can picture Satan laughing at this God and laughing at humanity. With a God as stupid incompetent negligent cruel and as insane as the God of the Bible Satan the Devil has won this war. This God is the biggest screwup and the biggest failure imaginable. On a creative level and on a philosophic level and on a mental level and on a moral level its a BUNGLE. Tooth decay aneurysm heart disease cancer malaria tapeworms centipedes jellyfish predation violence carnage mass starvation homelessness birth defects deformities miscarriages car accidents hurricanes tsunamis volcanic eruptions mental illness loneliness depression blindness senility horrific crimes alienation overpopulation the extinction of one species after another and the pollution of the air water the land and our food supplies is evidence of an incompetent negligent cruel sloppy stupid creator. Allowing thousands to millions of years of suffering death and evil is a disgrace. Its criminal cruelty and criminal negligence. Its criminal stupidity and criminal insanity. Its criminal incompetence. Im embarrassed to call myself a Bible believing Christian. Fear of going to hell is why I continue to be a Christian. Its a cruel stupid insane negligent God but this is what we're stuck with unfortunately.Fundamentalists say that God is God
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on April 02, 2013:
Jung’s interpretation of Job is accurate in that the god of this story, and I emphasis the word story, does seem to fall into that particular satan’s web, so to speak. To me it shows a god that does not know everything (how else could he be led?) and is therefore not omnipotent. Jung claims that his omnipotence precludes self awareness. To me that is unfounded. How can omnipotence preclude self-awareness? Jung claims it is because god does not have a body and has no point of reference for self, but first of all that’s a guess, and again, the rest of the bible show clearly that the god of the story is very self aware. It is a tyrant egomaniac throughout the entire bible, insisting everyone worship and glorify it.
How can you do that without a very acute feeling of superiority and self awareness? He feels entitlement, in fact. He feels entitled to worship and obedience without question. It is his right.
This is the same idea as kingship. Kings and queens often felt entitled to their position and far above the mere peasants they ruled. It is clear that this god is modeled on that kind of mentality. The all powerful are entitled to use their power in whatever way they see fit, and use us to do their will.
Remember what original sin is supposed to be? Eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If you look at that as a metaphor then it is a story of how humans attained consciousness, and in particular, self consciousness. And what does god say? “behold, they are like one of us.” Meaning we had become conscious of self in a more profound way than we had been before. Knowledge of good and evil is only the symptom. To have knowledge of opposites you have to be able to deliberate and discern. You can’t do that without self awareness.
A single celled animal needs to be aware of self in a rudimentary way, for goodness sake, or it would continuously bang its head on the same rock and never get by it to the food on the other side. A god can surely do better than that?
How indeed can a god or anything need to take stock of itself and it’s actions, as Jung says, unless it is self aware? He overanalyzed it and wasn’t seeing the big picture. A fault that is common to both Fraud and Jung in my opinion.
The Jews themselves see the satan in this story as god’s own second thought, or doubt. But that too precludes the god from being omnipotent. It is clearly the case when he says that he repented making mankind. How can a god know all in advance and regret anything? He would have known in advance what a headache we would have been and not bothered. And there are plenty of other places that show that god is not all wise, all knowing or omnipotent.
What the Jews say is that he is the power and that therefore he can do what he likes because he is entitled to do what he likes by virtue of his power alone. He is above morality because he decrees what morality is and is not. So nothing he does is immoral no matter how immoral it is.
Now you have to also note that the satan in the story is not a fallen angel. He is gods accuser. He is a cop, so to speak. That’s what satans were. They were the watchers of mankind and they went back and forth telling god about our sins. There are a lot of ancient texts that tell us this. Humans had the same problem with gods cops as we do with human cops. They often accuse or suspect the wrong people. A bad satan to the Jews was one that knowingly falsely accused a human.
However, in at least one German prison camp the Jews did put god on trial for crimes against humanity. God was found guilty, of course. Some probably did this in hopes that god would bring them a swift end. But he didn’t.
I do not see the satan falsely accusing Job. I see him doing what a lot of security people do. They are naturally suspicious. In this case perhaps the satan was just thinking in the best interest of god? “What if this Job is not as righteous as you think?” he says. “ Lets test him, it’s the only way to know for sure.”
So was god really bamboozled? Or didn’t he know for sure? Yes, the satan planted the doubt, but if god can doubt then he does not know all. The satan didn’t know for sure, he lost the bet. And if you notice, the satan did not do a single thing god did not instruct him to do.
The Fundamentalists have a different take. It is complex because it has to be to get around the obvious. It usually starts by saying god tested Job, but he knew Job would pass. But to pass god had to test him. He wasn’t fooled by satan, he just had to use satan to test Job anyway. Free will and all that nonsense. God was going Job a favour. Nice, but what about the people that died? No one cares about them, the story only allows us to care about Job. He gets it all back in the end including a new wife and family. It all ends so positively... except for the other family he lost. If they meant nothing to him then he may have been righteous but he sure wasn’t a loving human being. And god didn’t care about his family. Oh yes, they all went to heaven, or perhaps some went to hell.... oh well. It reminds me of a Rambo movie where everyone dies and no one cares about them or their families, only Rambo.
Job is actually an older story than the one the Jews tell. The Sumerians had a version of it, but of course it concerned several gods testing a man, not one god and his helper. The story is very similar and the Jews probably adapted it.
The moral was that if you continue to worship and have reverence for god even if he or they hand you dung, they will reward you in the end. Adversity is just god or the gods testing you.
But if they kill you then you were just the expendable guy in the red shirt on Star Trek, and he was testing someone else. Bad luck.
That kind of thing show this to be just a story like any other, not a factual account of anything historical.
If you read the bible as a fiction loosely based on some historical places, people and events, then you get a clear picture of this god’s character and disposition. It is no different from the disposition of any earthly king who thought he was the son of some god or other and was above all else. You also see that allows you to glimpse the minds of primitives as they try to work out what is going on and why life sucks. Belief in a god allows them to believe they if they suffer through and keep the faith, they will be rewarded in the end, even if only after they die.
Thank goodness they didn’t let that stop them from trying to make life better. Our life is infinitely better than theirs was on the whole. Less people suffer in the ways they did.
Take the god myth for what it is. Be glad it’s a myth.
anonymous on April 01, 2013:
I think what Jung meant is that God is not totally conscious of what He does and what He allows. I don't think Jung meant that God is completely devoid of consciousness. I think what he menat was that the Biblical God is less conscious than a normal human being. Jung is vague on what he wrote. Read Jungs Answer to Job. In my opinion there is an impersonal blind irrational impersonal amoral aspect of God which is lacking in consciousness. I also think that the Biblical God is insane and Eldritch Abomination or a moral monstrosity. He is irrational and insane and unintelligent and that may explain His cruelty and negligence. This God is not right in the head and He cannot see the cruelty and the wrong of what He is doing and what He is allowing. This God is the biggest sinner and the biggest criminal of all aside from Satan. He has ruined the entire creation and ALLOWS it to remain ruined. He is guilty of cruelty and negligence. I can add stupidity incompetence and insanity to the list. It never ceases to amaze me how religious folks can call this God good loving and merciful when so much of the Bible shows Him ruthlessly wantonly torturing and killing people and animals and the fact that this God allows diseases starvation loneliness crimes wars pollution etc and seems to have no morsl obligation to help us and seems to have no moral obligation to heal us. Its an irresponsible negligent God who is too lazy or too stupid to provide for His creatures. Or as I point out before He is insane or mentally blind or morally blind and He cannot see the cruelty and the wrong oc what He is allowing. This God fits the definition of insanity and He is insane in a cruel manner as He continues to allow evil and suffering ad nauseam ad infinitum. When one continues to make the same mistakes over and over again or wjen one continues to allow the same evils over and over again then that person is certifiably insane or stupid or both. It takes an insane criminal lunatic or cruel fiend or an incompetent negligent idiot to allow the eons of cruelties and horrors throughout history and prehistory. Or this God is totally blind on a mental level and on a moral level and is totally lacking consciousness and is totally impersonal. I don't believe that God is totally devoid of consciousness and I don't believe He is completely impersonal. I do believe as I point out before that a part of God or an aspect of God lacks consciousness and a part of God or an aspect of God is impersonal.My personal opinion is that this God has a composite personality and is full of comtradictions contrasts opposites extremes and paradoxes which csn be seen in His behavior in the Bible and which can be seen in the Nature He created. Heat cold gentleness violence beauty ugliness kindness cruelty intelligence stupidity light darkness order chaos perfection defects wetness dryness hurting healing good and evil all reside in this God of the Bible. The same God who created roses also created cancer. Its a morally ambivalent God with a Jekyll and Hyde personality. The Biblical God is a mix of good and evil or He is beyond good and evil. The Biblical God is like a cat who is friendly and affectionate on one hand while biting and scratching its owner and going out and killing and ripping animals on the other hand. Good and evil light and dark at the same time. Contradiction contrast paradox ambivalence. My opinion is that God as described by the Bible is insane and an insane being can be as dangerous as an evil one. Honestly I don't know what kind of God this is I worship.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on April 01, 2013:
If as Jung suggested this god is not conscious then why not just call it nature? It is not doing harm on purpose because it has no intent. I do think the process of nature is all there is. Call it god if you like, it qualifies. But if it is not a conscious being then it is neither good nor evil, as both require conscious intent.
anonymous on April 01, 2013:
The Biblical concept of God is truly disturbing and disgusting. If read objectively the Bible is one of the greatest indictments of God ever written. I think the Bible is an insult to the good name of God as it makes God more or less culpable for evil and suffering in the world. God conducts a cruel dangerous unfair unjust destructive experiment with free will Satan and Adam and Eve. Satan rebels and one third of the angels join Satan. Later Adam and Eve disobey God by eating forbidden fruit. God should have known they would disobey. Why allow a talking tempting snake and a lurking Satan in the background? Why have or why allow Adam and Eves sin to be passed on to ALL future unborn humans? Why punish innocent animals for Adam and Eves sin? Why curse and punish the ENTIRE creation for this? This God has ruined and poisoned His creation because of Satan and because Adam and Eve ate a forbidding fruit thousands of years ago. This is unfair unjust irrational insane incompetence negligence stupidity and CRUELTY. See the hubsite Gods damned creation. A God who is cruel nough insane enough and stupid enough to ruin poison and trash His creation is an embarrassment. Its a moral monstrosity. A loving merciful being would not do this. An insane being would do this. If God supposedly hates human sin so much then He wouod not have allowed Satans sin to corrupt human beings and He would not have allowed Adam and Evs sin to corrupt all future unborn humans AND He would not be allowing thousands of years of human sin and evil if He supposdly hates it so much. Were told God has to tie His hands and allow all manner of evil to allow free will. This is insanity and stupidity. Free will does not justify turning the world into a hellhole. Not in my book preacher. Secondly no one has total free will. At best we have partial free will NOT total free will. Nature and nurture also dictates and determines our behaviour good or bad. Not everyone has the same degree of free will. Some peopoe have more free will and some people have less free will. Take two serial killers such as Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer. Even after they were captured and put in prison these two guys fantasized about killing raping dismembering people. Obviously they would have continued their horrific crimes if they weren't caught and even after they were caught and rotting in prison they continued to daydream about their crimes. Does this sound like two people who are in control of their free will? The obvious answer is no. In some people its in their very Nature to commit monstrous crimes such as raping killing dismemberment. If religious folks want to blame the Devil Satan and demons for such horrible criminals then how can these criminals have total free will if the Devil and demons are manipulating their behavior? All too often free will favors evil behavior and favors evil people. Does free will or partial free will justify the monstrous crimes of Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer? Does free will justify the suffering of their victims and othe victims families and relatives? Does free will justify Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer being sent to hell after they die for their crimes? A loving merciful rational sane God would say no its not justifiable. Unfortunately this God of the Bible is irrational insane negligent stupid and has no common sense and has no reasoning and allows ALL manner of evil and cruelty as the price for free will and Adam anx Eves sin. Its stupidity and insanity. This God is criminally stupid and criminally insane and criminally incompetent and criminally negligent and criminally cruel. This God has no intelligent constructive solutioj to offer us. He has no merciful humane solution to offer us. Cruelty insanity incompetence injustice negligence stupidity and destructiveness are His ways. Having a screwed up world is part of God's unknowable divine plan which us humans cant comprehend. We are in looneyville. Its a sick disturbed God we have and this is a win for Satan and demons. The Devil and evil rules this screwed up world. A loving wise God does not. If a loving wise God exists then He cannot be in control of this screwed up world. The world to me is a horror movie ruled by Satan. God is insane if one reads the Bible objectively. The Biblical God is a dunce an incompetent bungler and a colossal screwup and a colossal failure who cant do much of anything right. Cruelty violence killing starvation disease loneliness disasters sin and death are His ways and part of His unknowable divine plan which us humans cant comprehend. Its sick. I can just picture Satsn laughing at this incompetent insane God and laughing at humanity. God's deficiency is the Devil's opportunity. What good does this God think He is doing by continuing to allow human sin ad nauseam ad infinitum? What good does this God think He is doing by continuing to allow diseases disasters starvation and loneliness ad nauseam ad infinitum? If this isn't the height of insanity then I don't know what is. The God of the Bible is one of the cruelest beings imaginable. A God or any being or person who tortures and kills has stooped to the lowest of the low. It seems this God created us to torture us. Or He doesn't care one way or the other about His creatures. Its an absentee landlord for a God. He doesn't know how to help us and He doesn't know how to heal us. He allows us to remain in our sinfulness and falleness and He allows us to suffer and die by one horrible means or another in a cruel dangerous screwed up Devilish Satanic world. This is not love and mercifulness. This is not omniscience. Its an embarrassment.
anonymous on March 31, 2013:
Dear Slarty thats a possibility. The other possibilities is that this God is insane irrational blind. Not visually blind but mentally blind and morally blind. Karl Jung came out with an interesting theory about God and the problem of evil and suffering. Jung thinks that God lacks consciousness and that maybe why God inflicts or allows evil and suffering as He does not understand the cruelty and the wrong of what He is doing or allowing. Lack of consciousness lack of comprehension lack of understanding may also be why this God chooses to keep silent remote aloof and hidden. God is IRRATIONAL in my personal opinion. A God who would allow such monstrous cruelties and horrors as premature burial the Holocaust 9/11 mass starvation cancer ebola heart disease stroke aneurysm tsunamis elephantiasis river blindness botulism serial killers the Hiroshima bombing etc etc etc is mentally and morally not right. This God is not right in the head if he cant see the cruelty insanity immorality stupidity wrong and destructiveness of what He is allowing. Its an unintelligible God or an Eldritch Abomination. This God cant see sin in His cruel inhumane punishments and in His cruel inhumane testing of faith. This God cant see sin in His negligence and cruelty and He cant see sin in the suffering and evil He ALLOWS. This is what I mean by being mentally blind and morally blind. It doesn't seem to occur to this God that He ought to intervene and start helping and healing this broken creation. Human nature isn't going to heal by itself and Natures screwups arent going to heal by itself. God has to heal it. He has failed to heal and continues to fail. This God is the biggest failure and disappointment. He cant even communicate with humans in a clear manner and thus has caused much division contradiction confusion and vagueness over the Bible and religion. Its an absentee landlord for a God. Its an embarrassment. That's why I believe in a deficient God. This God is a screwup. Im embarrassed to call myself a Bible believing Christian.
Ron Hooft (author) from Ottawa on March 30, 2013:
I think what is amiss with this god is that it does not exist.
anonymous on March 29, 2013:
We don't really know if God is cruel or not. We don't really know if God created diseases or not. But going BY THE BIBLE God is cruel because God created ALL things. That means He created cancer malaria centipedes ugliness birth defects etc. The Bible itself saus that God creates light and darkness and creates peace and evil and He kills and makes alive. Its a God of contrasts comtradictions opposites and extremes. The Biblical God has a Jekyll and Hyde personality. I point this out throughout my writings. Satan and demons are also to blame for evil cruelty ugliness suffering and death. Some claim that God is innocent and its just Satan or the Devil and demons who are to blame for evil and suffering. I hope they're right. But we don't know. Even if all the blame can be thrown on to the Devil or Satan and demons that still leaves an unanswered question. WHY is God allowing Satan and his minions to corrupt spoil and ruin the creation? Why allow these Devilish cruel entities to cause all this cruelty misery evil and havoc? God is supposed to be stronger and smarter than Satan and his minions and God is supposed to protect us. My personal opinion is that Satan and demons are stronger and smarter than given credit for and its Satan who is winning this war and its Satan who is ruling this deeply troubled deeply screwed up world. A good loving God may exist but He cannot be in control of whats going on in this screwed up world. Thousands to millions of years of evils suffering death and all manner of cruelties and horrors implies a deficient God. Something is amiss with this God and He has chosen to keep silent and secret about it. My mind is not at ease.
Unknown on March 12, 2013:
I don't think that God is cruel , God only create kindness in this world . Some examples : bright , bright mean full of light and 'dark' is juz a word to replace the word not enough bright . Another examples : love , love mean like something that is over the limit of like , but 'hate' juz a word to replace the word not enough love . that why i think god didn't create cruelty or ugliness
anonymous on February 21, 2013:
Dear Slarty I apologized to Cefaloe. I don't want any arguing on these hubs. People can disagree but theres no reason for rudeness. Basically these hubs are ok. Thank you for allowing me to write.
anonymous on February 19, 2013:
Dear Slarty there is another hub with the owner calling themselves Celafoe. This person is narrowminded closed minded rude arrogant and presumptuous and doesn't want to listen to anyone elses comments that doesn't agree with him. This Celafoe guy believes that God knowingingly and intentionally created Satan as tempter liar and deceiver. Wow. That's more disturbing than God creating Satan without knowing how evil Satan would become. This Celafoe guy is one of those Fundamentalists like Herbert W.Armstrong and Harold Camping who both have said untrue and stupid things. This Celafoe calls my comments trash drivel and a waste of time. That's rude and insolent. So I in turn have been rude to him. I think hes a closed minded ignorant nasty person with a one dimensional view of the Bible. This guy thinks only hes right and everyone else is wrong. These Fundamentalists are arrogant and presumptuous. Hes a waste of Internet. I thank you Mr. Slarty for allowing me to write for your hub and for being polite to me. I have respect for you. While Im not an atheist Im also not going to argue that Im an expert on God and the Bible. No one knows what God is like and no one knows what Satan is like and no one knows what the Bible means and neither does Celafoe. Im humble enough to admit that there are many mysteries that I don't know the answers to. This Celafoe guy on the other hand has the audacity to claim he knows and is intolerant of anyone who differs from his narrow minded beliefs about the Bible. Celafoe is an ignoramus and hes rude. I just wanted to bring this to attention. Most of the other hubs have been polite with me. I thank you for being polite with me and for allowing me to write for your hub the cruelty of the christian God. A lot of my best writing is on this hub. Thank you.
anonymous on February 13, 2013:
Dear Slarty o brian I have written for other hubs about the devil Satan and about demonic voices. Ive written for the hub God's damned creation. They have printed my comments. One hub however keeps on removing my comments almost as soon as I post them. It seems this person doesn't like what I say. The name of the hub is God created Satan-Did God create Evil? and the person running this hub calls themselves Judah Daughter. This person seems to be a Fundamentalist who takes the Bible too literally. They didn't write anything to me. I still find it rude unfair and disrespectful that they would remove my comments three times almost immediately. Do you know anything about this Judah Daughter? Please see the hub mentioned. My comments have been removed. That's not nice. Judah Daughter is the only hub that has been rude to me. I would like to thank all the other hubs for allowing me to write. I would like to thank you for allowing me to write for your hub The Cruelty of the Christian God. I have written a lot for this particular hub. Thank you for reading.