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Should You Believe in the Trinity? - 1 of 2


The First Commandment

The First Holy Commandment of God is found in Exodus 20:1-3:

“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me.”

Isaiah 43:10 "...before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me."

Hosea 13:4 “Yet I have been the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me.”

I write about this subject because I love the LORD my God with all my heart, with all my soul and with all my mind and I love you, my neighbor, as myself (Mat 22:38-39).

Was the LORD God who spoke the Word a Trinity? If so, don’t you think He would have revealed this to His people from the creation? The Jews are monotheists and always have been. They witnessed God in Spirit (clouds, fire, power, inspirational words through the Prophets) and human form (i.e. to Abraham and Jacob), yet never split Him into persons.

To receive Jesus Christ as Lord in no way compromises monotheism, when you understand He is God Himself. The Trinity doctrine is as this image above. It teaches the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equally God, but that each is not the other. If each is not the other, then the Trinity is a polytheist, pagan teaching. This doctrine was not birthed until the Catholic church introduced it, along with a multitude of other pagan beliefs and practices. In this exposition, I will show you WHY I no longer believe in what I was always taught – the Trinity: God in three persons.


The Root of Protestant churches = Catholicism

Because I was raised in the Protestant faith, I never knew much about Catholicism. All I knew is there had to be good reason for believers to break away from the Catholic ‘church’. Sure, I knew they practiced things Protestants do not believe are biblical: that the ‘Church’ was founded upon Peter; the canonizing of saints; praying to and through those saints that have died (and angels, too); their exaltation of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” and mediator; believing that the Pope or Priest could forgive [remit] sins, etc.

Throughout my Christian walk, I’ve come to find out it was the Catholic church that implemented the doctrine of the Trinity, which is the subject of this writing. They also instigated the birth date of Christ as December 25th. Since they celebrate the “Immaculate Conception” on December 8th, how is it possible Jesus could be born over a year later? How many “trinity” gods have sons born on December 25th? Why do we celebrate “Christ-Mass” with decorated trees and Saint Nicholas?

I find it quite ‘interesting’ that they observe the 40 days of Lent and refer to Mary as the “Queen of Heaven”. I recently studied the roots of Easter and found out about Ishtar (pronounced Easter) who was impregnated by the rays of the sun god (her dead husband, Nimrod), and had a son named Tammuz. Indeed, Nimrod was the wicked, great-great grandson of Noah. If you read Eze 8:14, you will see that people mourned the death of Tammuz for 40 days before celebrating his 'resurrection' and honoring his mother, the “Queen of Heaven”. Why do we yet celebrate Easter with eggs and rabbits on church grounds?

How did All Hallows Eve (Halloween) turn into “All Saints Eve”? Both surely focus on the souls of the dead. Why are all the holidays (holy days) named after Saints? (St. Valentine, St. Patrick, St. Nicholas, etc.) I can tell you, it’s because the Catholic church wanted as many pagan converts as they could get, without causing them much discomfort. They took the celebrations already practiced by the pagans and stamped the name of the Lord on them!


Alterations to the Holy Bible

What gets me the MOST upset is that it is the Catholic priests who added to and subtracted from God’s Holy Bible! All you have to do is look up a set of the Catholic 10 Commandments and compare them to the Holy Bible’s 10 Commandments found in Exodus 20. They took out the second commandment regarding the carving and worship of graven images and divided the ninth into two because worshiping images of angels and saints is what THEY DO!

Guess where the doctrine of Lucifer came from? The name “Lucifer” is only found once in the Holy Bible and it was inserted. Lucifer is a Latin proper name and stands out like a sore thumb in Isa 14:12. That passage is specifically written about the king of Babylon (14:3). They teach other false doctrines, such as purgatory, infant baptism, consuming the literal body and blood of Christ, etc.

Regardless of the offensive practices of the Catholic (and subsequent Protestant) churches, we all should know and take heed to God’s warning in Rev 22:18-19: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.”

How can we tell what has been added or taken away? I never knew these things before, but by the power of the Holy Spirit, God opened my mind to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45).

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The Trinity Added to the Textus Receptus

It was the well-know pagan, Tertullian (150 - 225 AD) who first coined the term 'Trinity' (God in three persons) in the year 200. He was converted to Catholicism in 195 and became an ordained Priest in the year 200. Coincidence? It wasn't until the 15th century, the first official translation of the Hebrew and Greek text into Latin was done by yet another Catholic Priest, named Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus in1516. It was called the Textus Receptus. He revised it in 1519, after Aldus Manutius translated from it in 1518, with independent text.

Because some influential Catholics were offended that Erasmus’ 1516 version did not contain the Trinitarian formula ofFather, Word and Holy Spirit in 1 John 5:7, Erasmus explained that he wasn’t aware of any Greek manuscript with that wording. Hence, the Catholics came up with one, written by an Oxford scholar named Roy or Froy in 1520, known as the Codex 61 (aka the Codex Montfortianus). Though NO ONE has ever found Greek text containing this wording, Erasmus changed the text to please his Catholic hierarchs in his 1522 edition. This addition to the original Greek text has since been known as “The Johannine Comma”. Do you think the Codex 61 only included that verse? How many MORE Trinitarian alterations were made to the Scriptures in this document?

There were several more ‘revisions’ of Erasmus’ Textus Receptus, but the Trinity wording remained. These revisions went from Stephanus (1551) to Theodore de Bèza (1519-1605) to Elzevir (1624), with minor changes in 1633, to the 1873 Oxford edition, which is no longer available. The King James Version was translated from the Textus Receptus into English in 1611 (most likely from Theodore de Beza’s version). In fact, ALL Bible versions we have today are birthed from the Textus Receptus! Therefore, the 'foundational' doctrine of the 'Trinity', based on its altered translation, has only been around for less than five centuries!

  • A bit of trivia for you...ever wonder why good 'ol King James changed the name of the Apostle Jacob to James? Jesus didn't have a disciple/Apostle named James. We even have the book of 'James', which is really the book of 'Jacob'!!

I found it quite alarming to find out the Catholic church did not allow their members to have a Holy Bible of their very own. No one was allowed to read or interpret the Scriptures, but the Pope/Priests. Those who rebelled and succeeded in printing Bibles for the people were hunted down and martyred!! Praise God we have the Bible today, though I will unfortunately show you that tares have certainly been sown among the Seed (the Word of God) through the Latin to English translation(s).

Since the Trinitarian ‘tare’ was added to 1 John 5:7, shouldn’t you test every other reference to such a doctrine throughout the Scriptures? Truly, it is also researchable that Mat 28:19 was altered. What was originally written as “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, in My name” was changed to “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”. Nice way to leave out His NAME...If this were a command of Jesus Christ, where is the second witness (Deut 17:6; Mat 18:16)? Why is it we don’t find even ONE account of the Apostles baptizing in a three-fold 'name' in all the New Testament? Rather, we only see them baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13-15).

I'll tell you why:

"The Baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the 2nd century (The Catholic Encyclopedia, 2, pg 263)"

I think it blasphemous to put words in the mouth of our LORD, Jesus Christ, that He never said, don't you?


Interpreting “Us”, “Our” and “We” Passages

Gen 1:26 states,Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’” The word image’ is the Hebrew word ‘tsalem’ (figurative). Man, like the angels, was created to rule over the earth as the angels rule in the heavenly realm. Verse 27 puts God and His image in the singular: “God created man in His own image [singular noun], in the image [singular noun] of God He created him [Adam = 1); male and female He created them [Adam + Eve = 2].” Remember, Adam was created long before Eve. He had finished naming all the animals, each male and female, before he realized he desired a mate. We know the angels did not have a part in the creation of man (Gen 2:4; Job 33:4), but they were certainly present when mankind was created (Job 38:4-7).

So God created two people; does this mean God is two or three persons? The figurative image of the husband and wife is reflective of Christ and the Church (Eph 5:32 and all throughout scripture); the birth of a child by their union is likened to the new birth (John 3:5) into God’s family (elohim).

If you read my hub GOD: Let Us Make Man in Our Image? I go into the FACT that John 1:1 states "The Word was to [pros] the God [theon - object] and God [theos - subject] was the Word [Θεος ην ο λογος]. In all these passages, I have resolved, as have Jewish scholars, that God was speaking to His heavenly host. To understand more as to the definition of 'Elohim' and why the word is plural, see Part 2.

Gen 3:22 states, “Then the LORD God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "-- This was spoken at the fall of Adam and Eve in Garden of Eden. First of all, who ALSO took from the tree of life to eat and live forever? The Creator or the created angels? Did God not place cherubim to guard the entrance to the Garden, preventing Adam and Eve from eating of the tree of life? (Gen 3:24) Yes, angels were present and God was speaking to them.

Gen 11:7 states, “Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech." Was God not accompanied by two of His angels when He appeared to Abraham, sending the two angels on to rescue Lot and his family from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? (Gen 18:2; 19:1). In both cases, God was accompanied by angels to execute His judgment. It is naïve of some to think the threesome that appeared to Abraham was God in three persons!

In Isa 6:8 God says "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me." Verses 1-6 show us clearly that angels were present. And who volunteered? Not a member of the 'Trinity'. Compare this to 2 Kings 2:22-23 when the LORD asked for a volunteer to cause the prophets of Ahab to lie.

Lastly, John 14:23 states, “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.” Did Jesus contradict Himself just five verses before that, when He said "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you"? (vs 18) "Orphans" is directly related to "Fatherless", not "Brotherless". Jesus would not leave them Fatherless; He, Himself, would come to them!

As with Mat 28:19, John 14:23 is yet another isolated verse that uses the Greek words eleusometha and poiesometha. It would be most helpful IF these words were used ANYWHERE else in the Greek New Testament, but they are NOT, in any context.

Isa 9:6 tells us the Son would be called "Everlasting Father". The Prophet also prophesied in 48:12 that God the Father is the Alpha [First/Beginning] and Omega [Last/End]; now, look at the words of Jesus is Rev 21:6-7: "Then He said to me, 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son." He is the Father, our God and Savior! (John 14:7-9); Furthermore, Jesus said in Rev 1:17-18 "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades." Cross-reference this with Isaiah 44:6:

  • "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: 'I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God.'"

And what of Col 2:9? The KJV translates, “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”. Look up the word 'Godhead' in the Greek, theotētos, and you will see it rightly translated in the NAS, NIV and others as “Deity”. We should not read into this word as a triune ‘Godhead’.


The Person of God

Prov 30:4 KJV states, “Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in His fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name, if thou canst tell?” Do you know what His name is?

First of all, let me say that the Old Testament prophesied of the coming Son of God more than once. Let's take another look at what the Prophet Isaiah wrote in 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God [El], The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

The LORD God gave us His name in Exodus 3:14, “I AM”. Likewise, God in the flesh was named ‘Jesus’ (YHWH Saves) in Mat 1:21 and ‘Immanuel’ (God with us) in Mat 1:23. Jesus revealed His name in John 8:58, “I AM”. Did you know what Jesus said to calm the storm when He came to His disciples walking on water, after His resurrection? “I AM” (Mark 6:48-50). Look up the Greek for what is translated as “it is I”. It should read exactly the same as John 8:58 “I AM(ego eimi). Furthermore, what is said about the LORD God in Job 9:8? “Which [He] alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.”

Isa 44:24 KJV "Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself;"

Let me ask you a question. In the Old Testament, did God ever reveal Himself in more than one person? Never. As mentioned earlier, He showed up in bodily form to meet with Abraham in Gen 18:2, and the two men with Him were angels (Gen 19:1). He also showed up in bodily form to wrestle with Jacob in Gen 32:24, 28 & 30. While God manifested Himself in Spirit (i.e. clouds and fire) and in bodily form, He never showed up in multiples. As I said before, the Jews witnessed God in Spirit and body, they never compromised the first Holy Commandment (Deut 6:4; Mark 12:29) by splitting God into ‘persons’. God is one person: Job 13:8 verifies, “Will ye accept His person? will ye contend for God?” "...Christ is the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person (Heb 1:3).

You might ask what I did, which was “Why didn’t God just show up in adult, human form to save us? Why did He have to be born of a virgin to become a man of flesh and blood?" God answered me. The Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15:50, “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.” The LORD’s appearance in the Old Testament was imperishable. And based on the Law given to Moses, Heb 9:22 tells us, "And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Gal 4:4-5 states, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." God had to shed His blood and His flesh had to perish, in order to save us.

Now look at Acts 20:28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.”


The Baptism (Mikveh) of Jesus

Maybe you think God showed up as a multiple in the New Testament baptism of Jesus in Matthew 3. First, we have Jesus, "the Word made flesh" (John 1:14), standing in the water. Next, we see "the Spirit of God descending as a dove", while a voice from the heavens says, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Why did the Spirit of God manifest as a dove in the first place? This was the sign promised to John the Baptist in John 1:32-33: "John testified saying, 'I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.".

If we read Mat 3:15-16, some think it was Jesus who saw the Holy Spirit descending because the word 'him' is assumed as such. However, to align John 1 to Mat 3, we should read, "But Jesus answering said to him [John], 'Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.' Then he [John] permitted Him. After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he [John] saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him".

When it comes to the voice from the heavens, we should take time to compare what happened in John 12:27-30, when Jesus was prophesying about His death. He said, "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 'Father, glorify Your name.' Then a voice came out of heaven: 'I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.' So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, 'An angel has spoken to Him.' Jesus answered and said, 'This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes."

I bolded the words of Jesus in John 12:27 "what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’?" because this contradicts what is written about His prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane. Did Jesus say, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will"? (Mat 26:39) In that passage we are told Jesus was ALONE when He prayed, going into the Garden three times and returning three times to find His disciples sleeping! Furthermore, Jesus said in John 10:18, "No one has taken it [My life] away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again."

We must shed the indoctrinated idea that 'three Persons' of God were present at the baptism of Jesus. If the manifestation of a dove is to be counted as another 'person' of God, then we must also consider the other six manifestations of God throughout history: immortal flesh to Abraham and Jacob (Gen 18:2; 19:1; Gen 32:24, 28, 30); the Angel of the LORD (Ex 3:2; Josh 5:13; 6:2; Jud 6:11, 14), the Rock at Horeb (Ex 17:6. 1 Cor 10:4), clouds and fire (Num 14:14) and the human body of the Son. Post-ascension, in what 'form' did Jesus appear to Saul (Paul) on the road to Damascus? Invisible, speaking Light (Acts 9).

1 Tim 3:16 is just as important as John 3:16, when it comes to the TRUTH:

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." Since the word "God" is not in the original Greek, we must look at the previous verse to confirm it indeed was God manifest in the flesh: "but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth."

Isa 9:6/John 14:9; Rom 1:3; 2 Cor 3:17...Listen....Listen...

Trinity or Oneness? - 2 of 2

I invite you to continue on with me Part 2, which will cover the following:

  • Why is Elohim plural?
  • The Word was with God
  • Stephen saw God and the Son at His right hand (including 1 Cor 11:3 "The Head of Christ is God")
  • Delivering up the Kingdom and Subjection of the Son
  • My Father is Greater than I
  • Why do you call Me good?
  • The Son doesn’t know the Day nor the Hour
  • Another Comforter
  • Jesus calls the Father ‘My God’
  • Jesus and the Holy Spirit make Intercession for us
  • God and the Lamb in Revelation
  • The Holy Spirit and Jesus come out from the Father
  • Let Me Tell You WHO GOD IS!
    Who is GOD? WOW. What a concept to try to wrap our human brains around! Ive read all kinds of interpretations of the trinity and some of the scriptures cause confusion as to exactly how we are to interpret the entity of God Himself.
  • CALVIN Murdered Michael Servetus!
    I know this sounds shocking, especially if you’ve never known this before. Though Michael Servetus and John Calvin were friends for 20 years, Calvin condemned him to being burned alive at the stake. Green wood was used, as it burns slower and would i


Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on January 04, 2015:

AMEN, brother Oscarlites! The Greek wording of "Except you believe I am he, you will die in your sins" is "Except you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." The word "He" was added to the translation of the text, yet, if we consider that YHWH means "I AM [He] Who Exists", then "I AM [He]" is yet understood by those who believe.

All of the Apostles were JEWS! THEY ONLY believed in ONE GOD and would NEVER have confessed Yeshua as LORD and preached the GOSPEL of Salvation by Him alone, as the Scriptures declare YHWH saying, "There is NO SAVIOR BESIDES ME" (Hosea 13:4; Isa 43:11, 45:21), to the DEATH, if they did not know who He was!! HalleluYah!

Even Saul was a JEW! A Pharisee, of the tribe of Benjamin!! (Phil 3:5) He went out arresting and murdering those who followed JESUS as GOD (for blasphemy) -- only to realize, this God, Who is the Spirit, Who spoke to him on that road to Damascus, is the LORD Jesus Christ. We press on in the FAITH without wavering, brother. May those whom He has called see "the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor 4:4) Amen.

Oscar Jones from Monroeville, Alabama on January 01, 2015:

Agreed! Actually with so many who claim "this was changed and that was changed", -its fulfilling of prophecy. Choose you this day who you will serve" could also be applied to us "making a stand". When you have done all, "stand". But it seems that we have just not done enough, or done all yet. Inherent evil subdues and conquers the mind of those who give up the fight. When scripture says "quit you like men", the apostle actually means to put on your armor and go out and fight and be strong. Regarding your comment he is still showing us who he is, brings the ever present comment of Jesus, "Except you believe I am he, you will die in your sins." - Somehow this is central and essential to our Salvation. When Roman Soldier Saul was struck blind on the road to Damascus, he asks WHO are you that does this to me! -? note the answer he received from Above. Every Cry of every apostle when in distress was "my Lord and My God! Thomas, Paul, James, Jude, Peter, .. none of them doubted who they were following. in the space that John the Baptist filled, (being between the two covenants, even as was the thief on the cross) a transition period if you will, the Jews all, and the apostles, and the young and old, looked for a sign, is this truly the one? IS this the God of Isaiah among us? Is this fulfillment of prophecy? the whole importance hinged on him being Alpha and Omega. For some the jury is still out, but for them who believed on him has he given them power to become sons and daughters of God. For those who believe in Him, Eternal Life, and His coming for us one day to live forever with him.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on December 28, 2014:

Oscarlites, I praise God for you! Your comment is encouraging and confirms the Truth God has indeed PRESERVED though Satan twist it craftily as he has throughout the centuries. "Mystery Babylon" IS the "Mother of Harlots", so she herself is the Harlot and her daughters (i.e. Calvin and other Protestant false apostles) continue not only to practice her heresies, but not condemn her for them!

I haven't read all those extra-Biblical resources, but we do agree that the Torah (the Tanakh, in its entirety) has not been altered (save the proper name "Lucifer") to such a degree that the Jews (Hebrews) would have fought wars over such blasphemies as are present in the New Testament, of which the alterations they surely reject. Is it any wonder the Catholic church persecuted Jews and teach "replacement" theology! Heresy!! Romans 11.

One thing is for sure. For those who seek God and actually know God ~ for those who READ the Old Testament and TEST the New Testament by it, demanding two witnesses in establishment of sound doctrine, as the Torah declares ~ they WILL find the Truth. God showed me when I had NO IDEA. I continued to write and write, as He continued to teach and confirm again and again. I'm certain I'm still not finished with what He has to show me regarding who He is.

The fact is, Peter couldn't even know who Jesus was unless it was Spiritually revealed to him. No one can understand unless it is Spiritually revealed to her/him. When it is, s/he shall test the Spirit and find it True. Amen. God bless you. I'm so thankful we are not alone, and by you and I (two witnesses) ~ two who don't even know each other, but each knowing God ~ may we bear witness to the Truth that it is Truth. God is ONE, not three. Amen.

Oscar Jones from Monroeville, Alabama on December 27, 2014:

Now unto the only wise God our savior, be grace and truth, now and ever, Amen. a scripture that closes the book of Jude. apparently some of the apostles new the singularity of God. of Deity. They understood he was manifested in flesh, and they understood he will reign upon the throne in the end. they understood even the sonship will one day be resolved as it says in 1 cor 24-28 - that he will have returned all power, that God might be all in All. Jesus as the sonship came to fulfill a purpose. God engineered a way that he himself might appear into our lives and share, and partake, and show his divine love. He did this through robing himself in flesh, and dwelling with us. offering himself as the propitiation, and sacrifice as the perfect lamb for our imperfect state.

What I have been experiencing in local churches is that I cannot relate to their ignorance of scripture, ( not that they are ignorant people) they are just indoctrinated with Trinitarian thoughts. 1) that they cannot key me into their beliefs of three separate persons for obvious reason. first they cannot show me in the holy bible( written word of God) where God desired to be called a "trinity". 2nd), that there is no use of the terms, "Triune, Three persons of God", neither can they show where God appointed a time that we would be re-directed to a different concept of terms other than what he used, and did not give authority past the apostles to add to the word of God. He never said," in the 2nd century a man will rise and re write the Godhead, a man named Tertullian and he will write up the trinity doctrine for me."

finally, in the context of eternity, John said that ""I, John, saw a throne in the heavens, and Jesus sat down in the middle of it." If indeed some of the scriptures have been tampered with to get the multiple, coequal, coeternal persons theory into the word, the certainly missed this one and many more. as I studied the scripture when I was a young man, I was made aware of such things that God counseled himself after "his own will" and spoke as we do today with "we are going to do such and such today". I was made aware that the right hand of God, denotes the position of "power" and Jesus as the Christ or son of God did represent the right hand of Gods power. this can be research even back in the old testament to make one realize the right hand is a spiritual position, not a physical position.

Judah's Daughter, I am still studying , and yet I can attest I have knowledge as well of Servitus, that he was upholding the original bible truth as he knew it. he was cut down by the more modern scholars and those in favor of the nicean creed and tertullians trinity and other updates to this Roman inspired conglomerated position of coequal COEXISTENT, coeternal godhead. IN a new book I just finished reading, by Gerald c. Mclean, bible scholar and missionary to Africa, "judgment against the gods" by Morris publishing in Kearney Nebraska, it explains the inadequacy of any belief or persuasion that would detract us away from the true God of the Bible., and certain judgment upon those who pilfer the word of God and his Word. it illustrates the illusion of the masses and wholesale acceptance of triune godship and why it cannot stand.

Points to consider, that at least I believe, the apostles and followers of Jesus Christ went underground ( fled to the catacombs and were tortured if caught) AFTER the roman emperor supposedly incorporated the roman church with the new testament Jesus Church AND PRONOUNCED himself the head of it, in order to gain back control of religion, leading the way into apostasy and sought the death of all who would oppose it. THATS how the current day roman catholic religion had its NOT so humble beginning, by destroying and killing those who opposed. yet they lead and claim all denominations who teach in any form the Trinity, as THEIR sisters and offspring. These techniques, tortures, and deaths of the early founders of the church ARE NOT the actions of a Jesus born church. Yeshua, Jesus, el shaddai, Elohim, Emmanuel, "I am". - would never have been a part of that. how could grace and peace and truth come out of that? with horrible regrets, the roman catholics became a monster controlling the masses and wars and conflicts of many hues have followed from generation to generation, and even the 19th century hidden darkness of child abuse within the catholic monastery, preist's and nuns alike show that the works of man are wicked and the robes hide the sins of those entrenched in that darkness, yet they plod forward and expect to be "Christians" without accountability, even as they did in the first three centuries. with the stroke of a pen, Constantine signed into law the greatest atrocity ever told. essentially he was saying, " WE TAKE OVER YOUR FAITH, YOUR BELIEFS, WE OWN YOU, BY VIRTUE OF LAW: and we will rewrite you into darkness. WE OWN THIS CHRIST FELLOWSHIP and we will make him who we will!. following mandates and creeds and councils GOD virtually became a "trinity". read the Nicean creed , council of nicea, 325 ad. further extinction of the early day Christians, and pluralizing of the Godhead occurred, to make the ROMANS and their beliefs of many gods, accepting to this newfound theology. History has merely reconstructed and duplicated new editions of this doctrine, and some versions elevate the "persons of God" to gnostic ideas of "an old white haired God, a younger looking son, and a mystical Holy Ghost, to make up the images of the trinity. indeed many today belief in their ignorance that their was a person, man who had a bodily form in heaven was reversed from adulthood and then squeezed through a birth canal as now a baby... that their is a heavenly "family of Gods up in the heavens and they simply translated themselves here to do the manger scene.".. what wild imaginations that people have, and yet they miss the already exciting biblical explanation of Salvation and Redemption through Mary and Joseph and Jesus Christ. DID GOD not do a good enough job of manifesting himself to save us humans, that we have to go and re work it, and rewrite the bible doctrines to suite ourselves, or to be politically correct, or to assuage the emperor, or ruler ? and just imagine how many times this has truly happened as new generations have come and gone! It is a divine miracle that we have enough of it left to get saved by. I say this; that if you STAY in the WORD OF GOD, and use terminology you find in the word of God, and be obedient to its teachings, you won't offend me. for the word of God is given for reproof correction and teaching in righteousness. II Tim 3:16

I am not opposed to reading such writings as history gives us, from Josephus, to Hillel letters, written by Saul ben Hillel, letters to the churches, Phillipian letters, Archko Volume, some historical data within the lost books, ( especially the events recorded of Adam and Eve outside the garden, in the years they were exiled.), the history of the early church and some of the foxes book of martyrs may be true, but remember as others have said here that entire libraries have been edited by past kings, and their scholars without divine instruction. The Torah has been well preserved and in it we know the originally Hebrew God Yahweh. the ministry of the antiquities has been slowly interpreting new scrolls and have protected the books of Isaiah, kept by the essenes, . I attest that 6000 plus years of mankind is a long, long time and ACCORDING to Gods word their is a bloodline, and Jesus is of the bloodline of David, both through physical heritage (Mary's lineage, and also of divine heritage the Lion of the tribe of Judah.). We have no reason to doubt who Jesus is.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on December 29, 2013:

Thanks, L7 - and thus, I have one for you (and my readers) that you will find historically correct and enlightening:

I also recommend my hub (which does not allow comments, for reasons stated within) entitled "Calvin Murdered Michael Servetus":

Blessings to you.

L7 on December 28, 2013:

Oops sorry.

Watch "St. Patrick's Bad Analogies" on YouTube

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on December 27, 2013:

Hi L7! It's the Catholic Catechism set that takes out the 2nd Commandment. There is a photo of them in this hub section entitled "Alterations to the Holy Bible". You can also look it up on Google.

And regarding the adding to and taking away passage in Revelation, yes - it was about that book. They almost removed the entire book from the canon, but thank goodness they didn't. Yes, this command was also given in Deut 4:2 and Prov 30:6 (glad you looked those up). The Scriptures written after Moses did not alter the Scriptures already written, so we can't interpret the meaning of adding to or subtracting from the Scriptures in that understanding.

You didn't leave the link to the video, so please email it to me or post it below. Thank you, and God bless you, L7.

L7 on December 27, 2013:

Greetings JD! I reading thru and looked up the 10 commandments in a Catholic Bible. I didn't see where the second commandment was changed. Perhaps even the Catholics have a few different versions?

Also in doing inductive bible study I always think "what did the author mean when he wrote this and how would the people of that day have taken it." When u quoted the often quoted verse in revelations about not adding to this book of prophesy, John was not speaking of the entire Bible. We see it that way because of its place in the Bible. He meant that specific book. We are commanded the same thing in Deut 4:2 and Proverbs 30:6. Meaning all who wrote after Moses were guilty of breaking the law which would mean Solomon and John. Am I saying that we should add what we want and take out anything from the Bible? Of course not. My point was just to point out when John said that he wasn't speaking of the Bible, just his apocalypse. watch this video on the Trinity explained and let me know watch you think. Thanks and be blessed.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on December 23, 2013:

Very inspiring, JustUs LightRay. There are definitely three beasts in Revelation which obviously, God uses to judge and persecute the nations. Because He is the only Sovereign, it is He that 'does these things', because He allows them and causes them to be (Isa 45:7).

There is one who specifically receives of the plagues of Revelation and She is mentioned in Chapter 17. She has added to and subtracted from the Word of God, by Her own admission (namely, Mat 28:19 and 1 John 5:7), and just check out Her set of the 10 Commandments used for catechism - the 2nd one of idolatry is completely removed. Based on Rev 22:18-19, it is She who will receive of the plagues and have her share taken away from the tree of life and the Holy City.

Not too long after all the Apostles died, the Ravenous Wolf came in (this Woman, Mystery Babylon), not sparing flock (Acts 20:29). She persecuted and killed the saints of God, if they didn't convert. She brought in all kinds of pagan doctrines, including the 'Trinity' (God is three, eternally existent persons, each not the other), and pagan practices: the worship of Baal and Ashtoreth (phallic evergreen trees, Easter bunnies and eggs, etc.), the "Queen of Heaven" (Mary), the 40 days of mourning for Tammuz (Lent), the veneration of Mary (she is now immaculately conceived and had no sin, and is a mediator to God) and veneration of those men and women they deem 'saints' (thus all the St. this and that holidays) ~ saints who can also pray to God for them ~ the worship of bones, the forbidding marriage (even of sexual union between a husband and wife), have idols everywhere, pray rote prayers of "Hail Mary", teach other false doctrines such as purgatory (you can pay for your sin in hell) and indulgences to keep you out of purgatory by paying for your sins while you live, with money; the 'Infallible Pope' and priests who are closet homosexuals and pedophiles... "Her sins are piled up to heaven and God has remembered Her crimes." (Rev 18:5)

The Protestant churches were right to protest, yet many of them do not really condemn the Catholic Church and don't know why they should. They yet believe and practice of Her teachings and are rightfully called Harlot daughters (Rev 17:5), for they too, have not repented of these things. For this reason, the Angel of God is warning, "Come out of Her, My People, that you not partake of Her sins and receive of Her plagues!" (Rev 18:4)

I praise God that He had you where you were when you looked at your Bible, after reading this hub. He is faithful to those who love Him and love His Truth. The very first words Jesus said to His disciples about the end of days is, "Be careful not to let anyone deceive you" (Mat 24:4), for the deception is so great that it may deceive even the elect, if it were possible. I was almost deceived - taught, brainwashed. But, by the Spirit of God was I delivered. I praise God that He Alone is my Deliverer!! God bless you, JustUs LightRay.

JustUs LightRay on December 22, 2013:

I must say this started by me thinking to myself that if the trinity is not true God must have warned us about it. So, I asked God very specifically if the trinity was mentioned in the Bible. My bible was already open, the first passage I read was Rev. 13:2, then from study I found Hosea 13:4-8, which was the only passage that I found that mentioned all three. I'm not saying this must make it true. I found many passages that seem to bring this all together, but to many to put in a post like this. Im still in study mod on this, but I must say Hosea is quite convincing.

Notice one beast is made up of three beasts, the three-in-one beast.

Rev. 13:2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.

Who claims to be like the three-in-one beast?

Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the Lord your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides Me. 5 I knew you in the wilderness, In the land of great drought. 6 When they had pasture, they were filled; They were filled and their heart was exalted(1 Corinthians 4:8; 1 Corinthians 4:6); Therefore they forgot Me. 7 "So I will be to them like a lion; Like a leopard by the road I will lurk; 8 I will meet them like a bear deprived of her cubs; I will tear open their rib cage, And there I will devour them like a lion. The wild beast shall tear them.

God says He will be to them. So, people will think they are worshiping the true God, but instead they will be worshipping the three-in-one beast (trinity). Because they worship a trinity it will devour them, which is being lead into all error. So it's like God has allowed the evil one to teach that God is a trinity. I'm not say God is the beast, but God says "So I will be to them like a..."

Looking at this next passage you will see the beginning of Christ's church, and the beginnings of the trinity if you will, if you know the history of the early church, and scripture. Israel worshiped God and false gods at the same time, if you look at passages like 1 Kings 18:19-21 as well as it's warning to the church in Rev 2:20-23; 2 Kings 17. Remember Paul's warning, he knew what would happen after he was gone Acts 20:29.

Judges 2

2 Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars(Deut 12:3,4).’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’”

7 So the people served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, who had seen all the great works of the Lord which He had done for Israel. 10 When all that generation had been gathered to their fathers, another generation arose after them who did not know the Lord nor the work which He had done for Israel.

11 Then the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and served the Baals; 12 and they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt; and they followed other gods from among the gods of the people who were all around them, and they bowed down to them; and they provoked the Lord to anger. 13 They forsook the Lord and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14 And the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel. So He delivered them into the hands of plunderers who despoiled them; and He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, so that they could no longer stand before their enemies.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on July 12, 2013:

Ah, and I suppose one who claims to be an Atheist, Luciferian, bi-sexual who writes porn is not extreme, newenglandsun? And now you’re back here, expecting me to believe you are ‘enlightened’ back into your original doctrine of Oneness…Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:4)

Speaking of ‘Persons’ or ‘Modes’, do you believe the Bible says we are to be kind to strangers, for many have entertained angels unaware? (Heb 13:2) That would suggest then, that angels can take on a human form. How about Satan, the Dragon, the Serpent of Old, the Devil? (Rev 20:2; 2 Cor 11:4) Post-resurrection, how did Jesus appear to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus? In bodily form or invisible, speaking Light? (Acts 9:3-6)

Phil 2:6-7: “who, although He [Yeshua] existed in the form [morphe] of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form [morphe] of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

Mark 16:12 “After that, He appeared in a different [2087 - heteros] form [morphe] to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country.” Luke 24:30-31 gives us more detail of the same account: “When He had reclined at the table with them, He took the bread and blessed it, and breaking it, He began giving it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight.”

While you’re a prime specimen of one who transforms into various personalities and doctrines, what I’ve written here is for the benefit of those who love the Word of God.

newenglandsun on July 11, 2013:

Interesting observation JD. I guess I was wrong. The way you quoted those passages and connected the dots has convinced me that to some extent, the Bible does in fact teach that Jesus is God the Father. I still am skeptical, but at least I can understand why so many do believe God the Father died on the cross.

You are correct that the Bible does not require belief in the Trinity to be saved but I think you go to the extreme a lot of Trinitarians go to except with Modalism instead.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on July 09, 2013:

Hello Isaiah! And speaking of Isaiah 55:8-9 may I state that God wants us to KNOW Him - that is the first and greatest Commandment (Mark 12:29)

Regarding "God's right hand" or "the right hand of God", we must remember that God is Spirit (John 4:24)/YHWH is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17) and Spirit does not have a literal 'right hand'. I address what "right hand" represents in my Hub, "Let Me Tell You Who God Is" as follows:


Understand that God came to us in the image of Jesus Christ, His Son. Earlier we read that the Spirit of God is also the POWER of God (Acts 1:8). The Bible tells us that Jesus sits at the "right hand" of the Father, indicating there are two persons; however, there is only one God.

What does “right hand” mean? Because God is Spirit, He does not have a visible body. In fact, the Bible tells us He is invisible. So, how can God have a literal “right hand”? This is representative of His power!

Let’s look at Ex 15:6 “Your right hand, O LORD [Yehovah], is MAJESTIC in POWER, Your right hand, O LORD, shatters the enemy.”

Ps 89:13 “You have a strong arm; Your hand is MIGHTY, Your right hand is exalted.”

Heb 1:3 “And He [Jesus Christ] is the radiance of His [God’s] glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His POWER. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the MAJESTY on high.”

Heb 1:8 “But of the Son He [God] says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous SCEPTER is the SCEPTER of His kingdom.'”

Look at the alignment, the mocking of Jesus in Mat 27:29: “They wove thorn branches into a crown and put it on his head, and they placed a reed stick in His RIGHT HAND as a SCEPTER. Then they knelt before Him in mockery and taunted, ‘Hail! King of the Jews!’

May we be given greater understanding. God bless you, Isaiah!

Isaiah on July 09, 2013:

The trinity has always presented a conundrum to me that I always just wrote off as beyond human comprehension (Isaiah 55:8-9). Are there actually three separate forms of God? Mark 16:19 and Romans 8:34 say Jesus is at God's right hand.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 17, 2013:

Thank you, KOJO. I'm glad you found this and it was worth the read! I appreciate you coming by and commenting. Blessings to you!

KOJO on May 17, 2013:

I stumbled on this blog and i found it very intresting

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on March 20, 2013:

Hi seekdtruth ~ astounded in a good way, I hope! I do not celebrate Christ-mass or Easter, or any of the other 'St. this and that days'. I would love to celebrate Passover, but no one does around here. I certainly remember it and on the 14th day of Nissan, just five days from today! I don't think I'll be taking all the leaven out of my house, though....leaven out of my heart ~ praise be to God, my Savior, Yeshua, "'eh·yeh/Ego Eimi". God bless you!

seekdtruth on March 20, 2013:

Your writings astound me. So, you don’t hold to the Trinity doctrine, which is good. How about Christmas and Easter or do you observe the Passover (and when)?

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 30, 2012:

Okay, tmarie7 - I viewed some information on both of them and they teach the picture at the top of this hub - that God is three persons, each not the other. I love you in the love of Christ.

tmarie7 from Southern California on May 30, 2012:

I forgot to add... my side is that of Walter Martin and Cal Beisner.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 28, 2012:

HalleluYah, tmarie7! The Holy Spirit is your LORD, sister!! I rejoice!!!

tmarie7 from Southern California on May 28, 2012:

Sounds to me that we are still in line. You prefer the word roles, I used personages, perhaps this word I have used incorrectly. I prefer your use of "role", I believe I will from now on use it. (smile) I have actually used the same explanation as to why Jesus prayed to the Father-because He was flesh-to a Mormon, matter of fact, attempting to teach them, same God, different personage, not "person", "role" would have been helpful here. I simply continue to use the word Trinity, or Triune, due to the 3 "roles" in one God...but have been previously schooled that the word was thought of, not written in the word, as we know. Thank you for your quick response and this hub! Many blessings to you!

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 28, 2012:

Hi tmarie7! What I believe is that when the Bible speaks of the Father, the Holy Spirit and the Son - all eternal without beginning or end, the Holy Spirit IS God (invisible Spirit) and Jesus is His image, both in the Old Testament and New. I believe He is the same God.

What I reject is what that 'Trinity' picture shows at the top of this hub, that The Father is NOT the Son and neither are The Holy Spirit. To me, this is equivalent with the Mormon teaching of God in three separate persons. Of course, Mormons believe they are three of flesh and bone, while I think Trinitarians believe the Father and Son have forms.

I go into answering your question about Jesus praying to the Father and many more in my second hub. Basically, Jesus, as a mortal human being (son of Mary) became you and me. He humbled Himself to even death on a cross. As the Holy Spirit is His Father (Mat 1:18), omnipresent and all powerful, the flesh of the Son prayed to the Father. Outside of mortal flesh, Jesus has always been and IS the Father, as there is Only One (1) God.

Again, God is Spirit (John 4:24); the LORD (Yahweh) is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17); and the Spirit of God/Spirit of Christ is the same Spirit (Rom 8:9) that we believe, receive and walk in today and forevermore.

Thank you for commenting and I appreciate you coming by to read! God bless you, sister in Christ.

tmarie7 from Southern California on May 28, 2012:

The whole Trinity - or oneness - confuses me. I believe God the Father is a spirit or source, that Jesus is the image of God in the flesh-which will more than likely be whom we see upon our glorification to be with the Father, and the Holy spirit is the spirit of God the Father/Jesus promised to be sent to us after the ascension of Christ left to dwell in the believers. One God..3 personages of One God. That is still in fact monotheism. If you believe God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same as I do.... what is the difference. Other than that...if a oneness is only said and not 3 separate personages, than that makes Jesus praying to the Father seem almost lunatic. If He was only one - than why is He ever praying to The Father. Mormons believe in 3 separate Gods...and I know all about that cult religion (YIKES), still I believe in the Trinity or Triunity being One God. Sorry if you covered this above and I missed it....

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on August 01, 2011:

Thank you, Brian. The thing that really solidified NOT believing in the Trinity doctrine is that the belief is, the Father is NOT the Son, the Son is NOT the Father, and the neither are the Holy Spirit. If each are God, unified, there are three 'persons', three gods in one (unity) rather than in number or person. That is polytheism, and since God does NOT change who He is, He chose to reveal Himself to His chosen for 4,000 years before He came and they NEVER split Him up into more than One, singular GOD. Neither did the early disciples of the Apostles ~ Catholicism is the first to birth this doctrine and it took off like a wildfire. No church or theology led me to the conclusion I received; I believe it came directly from my Shepherd, and I have only one: (Psalm 23:1; John 10:11-14). Amen ~ and God's blessings on you, too, my brother. JD

Brian Hyde on July 31, 2011:


Wow, so much to get my head around. Thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply. I do appreciate this because I know how long it takes to put togethr a reply like that. It took ages to formulate my questions. So, yes, thank you. I will consider your reply and other links you refer to and let you know my conclusion. What we do share as I indicated before is the clear Biblical teaching that there is only one true God. I think that John 17:3 is glossed over by too many Christians.

About roles within the Trinity. I call it roles because if there are three Persons each essentially God as implied by God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and they have always existed as Father Son and HS, then it begs the question why Father why Son? If this nomenclature does not mean what it says then it is a sham, mere role play. Thats my response to Trinitarians.

God's blessings on you my sister


Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on July 31, 2011:

Hi Brian, I appreciate your questions. I believe the Father is invisible Spirit and Jesus is His 'person' (the image of the invisible God) in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible does not tell us that Jesus was begotten (born), as the Son, prior to His birth here on earth. He is called God's 'only begotten Son' in John 3:16. It is true that angels are called 'sons of God' in the Old Testament (Job 38:4-7). They were not begotten, but created. If Jesus were the Son of God prior to His literal birth, that would make Him an angel, not God Himself. Jesus revealed He is God in a multitude of ways and by what He said to His disciples. Angels are not to be worshiped and in Revelation 19:10 and 22:9, the angel rebuked John for falling at his feet in worship.

I hope you read the sequel to this, which covers Jesus appearing in 'another form' after His resurrection. He took on a different form than His resurrected body. I recently heard the testimony of a Muslim man who was visited by a 'Light'. The man asked 'Who are you?' and was told "I am the Alpha and Omega". The Muslim didn't understand. The Light disappeared; a Christian man at a nearby gathering walked up to him and handed him a Bible, advising him not to read Revelation first, but the book of John. The Muslim man went right to the book of Revelation and in 1:8 read "I am the Alpha and Omega". This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. He knew He had encountered the LORD Jesus Christ and got saved right then and there. Look at the similarity with how Jesus appeared to the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus. He is the 'Mediator', God being able to come to us, give us His Word, guide us, teach us, comfort us, lead us, save us ~ and so much more.

God's earthly Son is the flesh of Jesus Christ. He was fully man and fully God. God is love, and in this split manifestation between the realms (physical and spiritual), the Father (the Spirit) loved the Son and was in Him and worked through Him. He is still in Him and works through Him as the 'Mediator' (relationship) between the realms. Any flesh manifestation of God in the Old Tesatament was His Christ, too. The only reason He had to be born of the flesh is to shed blood for us, for the imperishable has no flesh and blood (1 Cor 15:50) and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb 9:22). The LORD God said in Hos 13:4 and Isa 43:11, "There is NO Savior besides Me." Acts 20:28 tells us clearly that God purchased the Church with "His own blood." The account of Abraham and Isaac was a prophetic picture of the 'seed' of Abraham (the flesh of God) being sacrificed for the 'seed of Abraham' (Gal 3:29).

The Trinity teaches three 'persons', not three 'roles'. God became a Father (Heb 1:5) to become our Savior. He has always been Spirit and will always be. To see Jesus is to see the Father. To deny Jesus is to deny the Father, for He is One LORD (John 14:7).

Jesus called the Father 'My God' and 'Father' while in His earthly form. He was known as the 'Son of Man' also. As the Son of Man, He related to the Father as we are to relate to Him. This is why He taught His disciples to pray, "Our Father..." etc. As the Son of Man, He was fully subject to the Father as we are to be. He fully walked as we walk and accomplished every work and overcame every temptation, walking in our shoes. What a great love!!

The intercession question is covered in my second hub as follows:

Jesus and the Holy Spirit make intercession for us:

"We just discussed the Mediation of Christ. The thing we need to realize is God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ are one in the same. Look at Rom 8:9: “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.”

How does the Spirit of God/Spirit of Christ intercede for us? In us and through us, for we are a kingdom of priests (Rom 8:26-27; Rev 5:10). Jesus, of course, is our High Priest (Heb 8:1). Again, all mediation will cease when the final enemy of man’s physical death is destroyed."

We are called 'fellow heirs' with Christ because God (Spirit) gave us the inheritance (eternal life) through faith in the Son, God in the flesh. If the flesh of God had failed as the second 'Adam', we would have no inheritance and God could not have saved us. Only the LORD can explain these things to you fully.

Bottom line is, God had two manifestations all throughout the Bible: Spiritual and physical. This directly aligns with 'Father and Son'. As it was in the beginning, God and man, so it will be in the heavenly realm eternally. There will be no need for a Mediator, and Jesus will certainly not cease to exist. As fully God, He reigns forever and ever, as our Creator and LORD, as our Husband and Father, as King of kings.

There's far too much information to put in a comment box or even one or two hubs, so I invite you to read the other hubs, linked within each individual hub, as many many things are addressed. I had questions, as you do; I asked of the Lord and He answered me. I am not adequate (perfect) in my explanations, but I will do the very best I can. Be blesssed, in Jesus' name.

Brian Hyde on July 31, 2011:

Dear JD

Its a little bit intimidating to read comments that only those who God reveals himself will be able to understand the Deity because right now I have lots of questions. I do like the concept of their being only one true God. If it is correct then it makes life a lot easier convincing the Jews and the Muslims who otherwsie laugh Christians to scorn over the irrationality of the Trinity. But do I understand you correctly that you believe that the Father and the Son are one and the same person? So that means, and please correct me if I am wrong. Jesus had no pre-existence prior to his birth as the Son of Man and has no ng existence subsequent to his ascension to Heaven?

My first set of questions stem from one who has been profoundly moved by the most amazing love story in all history that of the Father and His Son Jesus. They love each other as only divine Beings can. And yet for the sake of redeeming fallen man God sent His Only Begotten Son into this world at the real risk that if His Son had sinned He would have been lost to Him forever for divine wrath would have come down upon the head of Christ as it came down upon Adam. John 3:16 encapsulates this amazing sacrifice of love the Father made in giving His Only Begotten to the world. And the Son was willing to come into this world because he had the same heart of love for fallen man. I am thinking here too of the object lesson provided by the story of Abraham and Isaac--who were to my mind a type of the Father and Son.

Q1 The Trinity teaches that the Father and Son is mere role play. Do you think your concept teaches anything less?

Q2. When Jesus ascended to Heaven He said to Mary and his other disciples that He was going to His Father and to his God, and to our Father and our God. Was that literal or figurative speech?

Q3. Jesus as High Priest ever lives to intercede on our behalf so that our personal and individual needs may be met. If the Father and the Son are one and the same how does God intercede with Himself in the role of High Priest?

Q4 We are called fellow heirs with Christ. Is that true that Christ is Heir or is that just figure of speech

In His love


Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on July 15, 2011:

Ah! drpastorcarlotta!! You are such a blessing ~ I appreciate you reading this hub and for your encouragement. I miss you, too! I've been in the process of moving since the third week of May ~ buried in busy and It will be nice when I can get back to a sense of calm and 'normalcy' to come and visit you at your HubPage! Know that I love you dearly ~ you're an anointed power-house, sistah!! May the LORD's anointing fall fresh daily upon you and use you mightily in the pulling down of strongholds and the salvation of the called! In HIS NAME, Amen!!

Pastor Dr Carlotta Boles from BREAKOUT MINISTRIES, INC. KC on July 15, 2011:

Hi Judah's Daughter and blessings! As always you did a very great job presenting this Hub to us. Thank you! I have missed you but I am back!! lol, lol, Be blessed my friend. Voted-Up!

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 25, 2011:

Wow ~ oh, the Lord is GOOD ~ Hallelujah! See, while the Jews were God's chosen and God only revealed Himself to them in the Old Testament, they had no idea God could come in corruptible flesh. As much as they claimed to know God, they knew Him not. They wanted an earthly king! (Oh, may we read 1 Sam 8 ~ sounds a lot like our churches!) John 1:11 "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him"..."in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor 4:4).

When we know the Truth, and I praise our LORD Jesus Christ that YOU DO, no matter WHAT we read in the Bible, we 'see' SO MUCH MORE!! Our blinded eyes are opened!! It is surreal that when we tesify of the Truth, we are called 'heretics' by those who claim to know Him! This 'Trinity' tare has grown into an enormous tree and its roots are in the world, as shown in this hub. If I could count all the words the Lord has had me write on this topic...there still aren't enough to explain and express the things of God. His Spirit is incredible to show the simple-minded anything of His heavenly Truth. May we stand united in ministering to all who are able to receive it.

This takes me back to the words of Paul in 1 Cor 3:2 "I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able" ~ compare this to the words Jesus spoke to His disciples in John 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now." Why couldn't they? Because these things are only revealed by the Spirit, Who was not yet come to baptize them until the Day of Pentecost. Likewise, Paul saw the glory of God, the Lord Jesus, on that road to Damascus and His life and insight was radically changed. I pray the same for all of us who love Him and desire to know Him; for those who do not seek to know may very well be the ones He tells to 'Depart from Me, for I never knew you'. (Mat 7:23)

exjwlaurie on May 25, 2011:

EXCELLENT Hub Sister JD! I am so thrilled to see you stand for God in Truth. He reveals Himself to us, when we let go of man-made doctrines, with labels that try to identify in a single word, who God is. Why don't they simply use the Label He gave Himself? "I Am".

He Is GOD. Not a plural God. I left off following man-establish "creed" and "doctrine" and "labels" after a life-time of being utterly deceived by man. So now, anything at all that comes to me dressed in the word "doctrine" is automatically suspect to me!

God reveals Himself to us by revelation--for His Godship is not something we can EVER comprehend in our sinful, human mind. Only through God's revelation upon us as we seek Him with our whole hearts and minds and souls and strength can we truly KNOW Him!

But we have to release any steadfast clinging to the doctrine of men--to strive ahead towards the TRUTH of God. And we learn from HIM directly, truths which we will never learn from man. Just as salvation is a "gift" from God, so too--is Knowing Him.

I love Jeremiah 9:24, "but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and KNOWS ME, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, and righteousness on earth for in these I delight."

See how this then ties to 1 Co 1:24, "but to those whom God has CALLED....Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." 2:30) It is because of him that you are IN Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God, that is our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Then Chapter 2:verse7, goes on to say, "...we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began...10) but God has revealed it to US by His Spirit."

By God's Spirit he reveals Himself to all whom He CALLS into relationship with Himself. Not through a manmade doctrine, taught by men...identified by a label.

Christ is called "the POWER of God and the WISDOM of God." WHEN has God 'ever' been without Power and Wisdom? It is a part of Him, of who He is. Jer 10:12 says: "But God MADE the earth by His POWER; He founded the world by His WISDOM..."

The TRUTH is available to all who seek Him. YOU have spoken truth here for us today Sister JD! I am so proud to have the honor of reading, as you STAND for the TRUTH of GOD! Bless you!

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 17, 2011:

I take it you are of the Catholic church, FirstCommunion. Do you find all the practices of the Catholic church biblical, or do you know your Bible? (i.e. that the ‘Church’ was founded upon Peter; the canonizing of saints; praying to and through those saints that have died (and angels, too); their exaltation of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” and mediator; believing that the Pope or Priest could forgive [remit] sins, etc)? Or do you just accept them as truth because that is what Catholics teach?

How do you exlain the Trinity? Is Jesus both God and Savior to you?

FirstCommunion from US on May 17, 2011:

Yes I do believe in trinity! Very nice information!

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 15, 2011:

Hi Disappearinghead, I've continued to do research on the history of the text. It is said that the plural verb "Us" and pronominal plural suffix "Our" is in the text (though we can't 'see' it in the Concordance tool). I will accept this to be fact. However, if you read my hub "GOD: Let Us Make Man in Our Image?" I go into the FACT that John 1:1 states "The Word was TO God [theon - object] and the Word was God [theos - subject]. In all these passages, I have resolved, as have Jewish scholars, that God was speaking to His heavenly host.

We may think that the angels were not created until the fourth day, when God created the 'stars'; however, if we consider Gen 1:1-2 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth And the earth was without form", we don't really know when that beginning was. The first day of creation, as recorded in vs. 3-5 simply states God separated the light from the darkness, creating the first day. The second day He separated the waters to become sky and sea, etc.

In other words, it appears the heavens and the earth were in existence on the first day. Look at Job 38:4-7 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Either way, the angels were there when God created man. It would make sense that God would speak to the angels then, as well as in Gen 3:22 and 11:7. Was God not accompanied by angels when He came to speak to Abraham and then sent His angels on to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 18:2; 19:1)?

We simily HAVE to take the countless usage of singular pronouns of "I" "My" "Me" "He" "His" "Him" regarding God's person, which far outweigh the five usages of "Us" "We" and "Our". In fact, the original languages did not contain capitalization. The fact that these plural pronouns are capitalized is a catylist for error, making God out to be a plural Deity. Even with the word "Elohim" referring to the One God, Jews considered a plural entity heresy and still do. I will edit this section of my hub to reflect these points. It's up to every believer think critically here.

This topic has not rested since the inception of the polytheistic view and it won't rest until we are on the other side of this life. God bless you.

Disappearinghead from Wales, UK on May 15, 2011:

Excellent hub JD. You have shown many things here concerning the wording of 'us', 'we' etc that I, as most of the Church, have just read over without question. I have a Jewish tannach on my kindle and even here it says 'let us make man in our image'. I have to wonder what was used as a basis of this translation but there is no preface.

If the Textus Receptus has been fiddled with to push the Trinity, it begs the question, what else do we believe that was not followed by the apostles?

With regards to Isaiah 9:6 how can we be so blind as to not see the words "Everlasting FATHER" as one of Jesus' titles?

I shall look forward to part 2 but I've got to put the shopping away first.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 12, 2011:

I was just thinking today, brother VOICE CIW, that it is respectable to disagree, and even more respectable to present your biblical case, as I have done. I love you and respect you immensely.

VOICE CIW on May 12, 2011:

Judah's Daughter, I am not going to argue the point, you believe what you want to believe, I believe you are wrong. I just finished writing my next hub, which is, The Holy Trinity, God in Three Persons, I will publish it today or tomorrow. Right after I read your hubs, God put this hub on my heart, and I started writing while the words were fresh in my heart. Just like you can go on and on about what you believe, so can I on what I believe, and as always, I have Scripture to back it up. As always Judah's Daughter, I love you in the Lord, I know that you have tremendous knowledge in the Word of God, I respect you for that, but those hubs you wrote, even though they are well-written, and I know you did your research, I still believe they are wrong. I continue to pray for you.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 10, 2011:

I'm glad you read both parts, brother VOICE CIW. As I said to you in my second comment (which I answered first), it was the Catholic church that 'changed' the person of God into persons. God existed before the creation of the heavens, earth and man. He doesn't change. His chosen ones never believed He was more than one God and don't have to, in accepting God in the flesh, our God and Savior.

The trinity doctrine existed before Christ in pagan religions, and entered the doctrine of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob though the Catholic church. This birthed the latter-day confusion. If these alterations had not been made to the Textus Receptus, we would all see clearly. Confusion is not of God and I am no longer confused. It truly does take the Holy Spirit (God) to open our minds to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45). I appreciate your words of concern; concern I also have for those who were born into the traditional teachings of the Catholic church.

You know I love you in the love of the Lord Jesus Christ.

VOICE CIW on May 10, 2011:

Judah's Daughter, you wrote this hub so professionaly, this is what you feel and believe, but I believe in the Holy Trinity. The Bible is so easily misunderstood, you need the Spirit of God (Holy Ghost)to help you to understand the Bible. When you question the validity of the Word of God (Bible), you give the Enemy opportunity to bring confusion, for he is the author of confusion. Judah's Daughter I just ask you to be careful, you may be treading on dangerous ground. I will read part 2. I love you in the Lord.

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 09, 2011:

Hi Jachda! It is such a blessing to hear from you! Yes, the word 'resist', 'entrenched' and 'traditions of men' are fitting, for I was one who walked in that way myself...I am yet learning by His Spirit, as there is always more revelation of the Truth to come!!

2 Tim 2:25 comes to mind about teaching such as this: "with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth". It's not up to me or you; amen. It's up to the LORD our God. God bless you!!!

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 09, 2011:

Hi sister, Jisblessed! I so appreciate your question. I, too had such a question, as it offends me that Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus a created 'angel' (that would be Michael) because they DO know it was God's Word who spoke to Moses on Mt. Sinai ~ yes it was!

When you read Ex 3:2 it would appear that a created (though divine) angel was speaking to Moses. However, look at verse 6 "Moreover He said, I [Am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God." That's how we know God manifested Himself as the 'Angel of the LORD'. In Ex 33:23, God appeared to Moses in another visible form with a ‘backside’ that he could look upon (Moses was not permitted to see God's face).

God appeared as the Angel of the LORD to Joshua (Josh 5:13; 6:2), Gideon (Jud 6:11, 14), and the parents of Samson (Jud 13 – see vs. 22). Also, whenever you read ‘His Christ’, this is also His visible image (Acts 3:18; 4:26; Rev 11:15; 12:10). Even the Rock at Horeb was ‘His Christ’ (Ex 17:6; 1 Cor 10:4).

Michael, on the other hand, is never called the 'Angel of the LORD', but 'the archangel' (Dan 12:1; Jude 1:9). I hope this is helpful :-)

James Wilson from El Cajon, CA on May 09, 2011:

It is a wonderful thing when the truth is presented, even though it may be resisted at first because of entrenched ideas and beliefs based upon the traditions of men. I enjoyed this hub, and I voted up, useful, and awesome. Great work, thank you for writing it so well.

Jisblessed on May 09, 2011:

I'm enjoying the teaching and learning. I do have a question. You said God showed up to talk with Abraham and I'm partly believing that even how I saw it in the movie. But I'm thinking from pearching I heard that God couldn't come into the earth without a body, legally nor the devil. We know devil doesn't care what's legal or unlegal. So would God have occupied the body of an angel? I thought he used the angel to speak on his behalf to Abraham. Or am I misunderstanding your statement? I will read the next one as well. Thanks

Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 08, 2011:

I totally understand where you're coming from, Michael Adams1959, for I at one time and for the majority of my life whole heartedly believed in the 'Trinity', too. God is the Father in Son in the Holy Spirit = the same God. To say the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father and neither are the Holy Spirit is in error, based on biblical grounding ~ but....may I say, it took the Lord to show me, and it wasn't an easy thing to do. These two hubs are a compliation of all my questions and the answers as I can explain them to the best of my ability. God bless you and I thank you for reading and commenting :-)

Isaiah Michael from Wherever God leads us. on May 08, 2011:

Man, what a subject to tackle! I feel you did a good job with it. I whole heartedly believe in the trinity of Father, son, and Holy Spirit. I believe in the three in one with three distinct purposes. I do agree that the views we have are so misguided by the heretical teachings of the Romanism Catholic church that it is so hard to know the truth especially since they supposedly in the name of God destroyed so much and killed so many for their gain. And to put blinders on the people saying it is illegal and not appropriate to read the Word of God on your own it is incomprehensible to me. Can't wait to see the next article

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