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END OF DAYS - Just How Close Is Tribulation, Have You Any Idea?


I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. Proverbs: 8: 17.


Started in 2012 and with so much added to the present time, this document is an account of what is prophesied to happen in the last days, and many are aware, but most think it’s too far off to even consider now. The problem for these is they have a ‘head in the sand’ mentality, they know it eventually will happen but they still push it away. Sadly, that’s a human trait – it won’t happen in my time but for so many, it will. The actual day of the beginning of Tribulation is unknown, just as the day Jesus returns is unknown but you may be surprised to learn that these days are much closer than you think. The thoughts that I will present here are from the Bible only searching for the truth. Don’t trust whatever you may read elsewhere without proper examination first. I no longer and will not belong to any man-made religion, simply by my distrust in what they have become. I would strongly advise any who read what follows, or what you discover yourself to do your own thorough investigations as to its truth from the scriptures, as scripture always interprets scripture. Without confirmation from the Bible, which is the only legitimate source, you may be mislead by what you read.

The 1599 Geneva Bible is a very good Bible, available as a free download (in modern spelling and is easy to read) and was written before King James 1st paid to have the KJV written as he wanted/demanded it in 1611 because he despised the Geneva Bible. It brought God's word to the masses relieving them from the corruption of the clergy, which was mingled with the politics of the day. A nice feature is the footnotes open up a clearer understanding rather than a reference to other verses as in other Bibles. You can download it free and save it to your computer at the following:

This information is not only for the believer but also for the unbeliever, in the hope they may become a believer.

The 3 main topics that I want to cover here are centred on: Daniel 9: 24 – 27, Matthew 24 and Revelation 13. After you’ve read what I’ve written here you may want to begin reading your Bible, starting in the New Testament and understand how serious your salvation is as so many are just drifting towards a lost eternity when it doesn't have to be that way. I also want to talk about 1st Thessalonians 4: 16 – 18 to look at where and how that fits in.

So to begin with Daniel and most would be familiar with the story of how Daniel was thrown into a den of lions by King Darius and how God saved Daniel by closing the lion’s mouths so that he was unharmed. Daniel was a man who was very much loved and favoured by God and it is so important that the vision, which was given to him by the angel Gabriel in Daniel 9: 24 – 27, is fully understood. These are not the only visions that Daniel received concerning the End Times, but are possibly the most debated. I'll write these verses spoken to Daniel by the angel Gabriel as they are in the Bible, which are known as ‘the seventy weeks’ prophecy. Jesus even points us to Daniel in Matthew 24: 15 and Revelation so we know this book clearly tells us so much about the end times and that these three books are connected and linked together. Just stay with me and I'll explain it to the best of my ability.

Verse 24: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Seventy weeks is prophetic time explained further down and understanding this verse is key to grasping the rest.

Verse 25: Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks: (69 prophetic weeks or 483 literal years) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Verse 26: And after threescore and two weeks (62 weeks or 434 years) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. This is the time we are living in now, 2000 years from the death of Jesus.

Verse 27: And he (the anti-Christ) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: (7 years) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblations to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The restoration of Jerusalem, which began in 457 B.C. after permission was first given in 445 B.C., is the starting point of the 70 weeks prophecy and from that time it is determined by the vision that the Messiah shall come and He was cut off after 69 weeks or 483 years. He was cut off, not for himself but for us. And He paid a terrible price for our salvation with His own blood. It speaks in Daniel 7: 24 and in Revelation 12: 14 about time in a prophetic way – time, times and a half. So, this seventy weeks is a time frame that one week = seven years. (One day is as a year.) These seventy weeks are an overall time of 490 years, (70 x 7) of which so far, only sixty nine weeks or 483 years have been accounted for in verse 25. If the 490 years is meant as a whole sequential block of time, why would Gabriel speak of it as being divided as such. The seventy weeks time frame is divided into three and the final week or seven years are yet to come, which is the Tribulation. 7 + 62 + 1. The 7 is the 49 years it took to rebuild Jerusalem, the 62 is the 434 years from the finish of rebuilding Jerusalem to the death of Jesus, [which is counted as one block of time, (7+62) resulting in the death of Jesus after 69 weeks - 483 years] and the 1 is the last 7 years before the return of Jesus. As this event hasn’t happened yet, the time frame must be divided in 3 parts, as in 7 + 62 / + 1 but split in 2 with a gap after the 69th week and before the 70th week which wasn't revealed to Daniel. Prophecy is a difficult thing to determine the truth at the best of time and we also know that some prophecies are veiled, simply to confound some. The 7000 year / 7 millennial days are the proof of it - Adam to Abraham 2000 years, (or two prophetic days) Abraham to Jesus 2000 years, Jesus to now 2000 years, (church age) with the millennium of 1000 years to come. We are now living, nearly at the end of the 6th day of that timeline.

So there has to be a gap somewhere and scripture supports it in many areas. We are living in the time between the 69th and the 70th week where the 'prophetic clock' has been stopped by God for nearly 2000 years after the death of Jesus (known as the church age, allowing more to enter in - very few would have been saved if this wasn't the case) and it's very close now to this last week, in which the clock will be re-started to count-down the final 7 years. You could even say it has been and is, God’s time of Grace toward us. Jesus was 30 years old when He began His ministry, which only lasted for 3.5 years and then He was killed. The Tribulation will be 7 concurrent years and it too, will be divided in two 3.5 year periods. The first 3.5 years is known as The Tribulation, the second and worst 3.5 years is known as The Great Tribulation. (I think it is more than just coincidence that the ministry of Jesus only lasted 3.5 years – God is giving Satan the same allotted time, 3.5 years, in the second half of Tribulation.) This is also when he (in the body of the anti-Christ) breaks all his promises at the beginning of Tribulation from the peace treaty with serious concerns for all. From what we read in Revelation 13, these 7 years will not be a happy time.

Further explanation of the 70 weeks prophecy above. Verse 24 speaks of 6 things, 3 of which Daniel was earnestly praying about before the angel Gabriel interrupts his prayer, telling him that Jerusalem will be restored and that he is sent to give him an understanding of the matter and to consider the vision. The first 3 things have already happened and the last 3 were distant but now, near future. (This needs to be properly understood.) Daniel 12: 1 - 4 gives us a clearer understanding of what is meant by 'seal up the vision' and is beautiful to read as it gives a perfect explanation and I should write it here for understanding, And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Verse 25 and 26 is very important to realise that it also predicted the crucifixion of Jesus perfectly, even to the day. Verse 26 says in part: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and refers to General Titus and the Roman Army, who came in 70 AD and burned the city and temple to the ground, scattering the inhabitants. It is said that gold from the temple melted down into the bricks and cracks during the fire and the soldiers tore everything down to the ground to retrieve the gold. The end of verse 26 says, and the end thereof shall be with a flood, – doesn’t mean a flood literally, it just means quickly from a large army. It continues saying, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. The 'end of the war' could mean to be plural as in future wars on earth and/or war in Heaven when Satan is removed at the midpoint of Tribulation. (verse 27 is expanded further down but a few things need explaining first.)

The scripture in Isaiah tells us that there may be ‘trouble’ prior to the beginning of the seventieth week, which is referred to as the ‘Burden of Damascus.’ Isaiah 17: 1 Behold, Damascus will cease to be a city and will become a heap of ruins. Because Damascus is still standing as a city and has never been reduced to ruins, it must be for a future time. This trouble/conflict can’t be classified as W.W.3 as it is over so quickly, but it will be the trigger to wider, more dangerous hostilities. Damascus, the capital of Syria is considered to be one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities with 2.5 million people and when this scripture is fulfilled, a chain of events of horrific proportions will begin. I cannot say that this event will be before or during Tribulation, nevertheless at some point it will happen. Aleppo was even larger than Damascus and because of the protracted civil war in Syria it is nearly gone now but Damascus will be gone overnight. Israel and Syria and some others are very much in the news these days and there are many Nations plotting to overthrow Israel right now, which are Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Gaza, Palestine, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey. They could all be hit together, but unlikely and if so will probably be nuclear. Isaiah 17: 13 The nations roar like the roaring of many waters, but He will rebuke them, and they will flee far away, chased like chaff on the mountains before the wind and whirling dust before the storm. Doesn’t this sound like the effects of shock waves and ‘mushroom type’ clouds created by numerous low-yield nuclear explosions? This strike on Damascus may not come from Israel, but is very likely. Isaiah 17: 14, At evening time, behold terror. Before morning they are no more. This destruction will be quick and complete in a decisive, pre-emptive strike. We will hear on the news one night “something is happening in the Middle East.” And by morning it will be over. The Middle East will be thrown into chaos after this event with many Nations stirred against Israel and it could be at this time we will be hearing of wars and rumours of wars. Damascus is just the start of worse to come. If the Gog-Magog war, Ezekiel 38 & 39 (possibly W.W.3) happens prior to Tribulation, this could open the way for the temple to be re-built, as it’s unlikely that the Muslims will relinquish control of ‘the Dome of the Rock’ but it could be destroyed by war or an earthquake brought about by God.

To digress a little, it would be remiss of me not to say anything about what I think could possibly happen in the very near future and I must add, these are only my thoughts. With the escalating tensions in the world at the present time between China, North Korea, Russia and the US, most would know that China is ready to 'reinstate' Taiwan into itself simply because of the rare earth minerals that Taiwan possesses, which are used in many important civil and military applications. And this will probably involve considerable military force. The US has vowed to come to Taiwan's defence should any aggression come from China and is unlikely until after the Olympics as that would attract world condemnation. China and Russia, who are allied with each other are talking to each other and they both have dictator agendas of world dominance, remember Hitler, he wanted to rule the world. One must ask, if Russia has no plans to invade Ukraine, why are they amassing thousands of troops along Ukraine's border in an aggressive stance - Russia has said they don't want Ukraine to join NATO - why? If China invades Taiwan, Russia could then invade Ukraine, as it did with Crimea a short time ago, which was illegal, or vice versa. And that would spread the US forces pretty thin if they intervene, and that will involve many other counties as well. It would appear that history is repeating itself as it was before the 1st and 2nd world wars.

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This war in Ukraine has now gone on for 8 months, much longer than what Putin thought, and there has been many reported instances of war crimes - murder committed by Russian forces, which isn't collateral damage, it's criminal. Putin's agenda of annexing all former Russian States, that broke away from it, back into it, should be recognised by all Russian citizens for what it is - dictatorship. The world recognises that this is wrong and condemns Russia but yet to no avail. I fear that if this conflict isn't peacefully resolved shortly, it could escalate into the already prophesied third world war.

It may be of interest to consider the Biblical reasons for some of the current problems in the Middle East. The hatred goes right back to Abraham, almost 4000 years ago. Abraham’s wife, Sarah, was barren and had no children, so she gave Hagar, her Egyptian slave girl to Abraham to give him a son, who gave birth to Ishmael. Then 14 years later, according to God’s promise, Sarah gave birth to Isaac. Hagar and Ishmael were evicted from the family and Isaac was given ‘the right of firstborn’ as he was the son of a free woman and Ishmael was the son of a slave girl without any rights. Israel came from Isaac – the Muslim world came from Ishmael. This argument over the first born rights is at the root of all this hatred. Abraham was promised the land Israel now occupies – thus Jews and Muslims view the Holy Land as theirs.

The Fig Tree Parable, Matthew 24: 32 - 34, will show how close we really are to the seventieth week. (Jesus often spoke in parables to confuse those who wouldn’t listen and need to be understood.) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when the branch is yet tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near: So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say to you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things are fulfilled. How do we understand this? That last verse is something I’ve always wondered about as I always thought ‘this generation’ was in the time of Jesus – but it isn’t. If you connect the bolded words above to read; when you shall see all these things, this generation shall not pass, it becomes clear. Jesus was telling the disciples that the generation of people who will be alive when the last days come about, would witness what He called the fig tree blooming and putting forth its leaves. So Jesus was saying (at that time but meaning now) when you see Israel re-blooming, your generation would be the one on the Earth and living when the last days occur and if Israel was destroyed in 70 AD and its inhabitants scattered – when did Israel bloom again? Perhaps history has the answer as it all hinges on Israel. May 14th 1948 is when history records it, which is when the Jews returned to the land that was first promised to Abraham by God. The generation that witnessed that, those born very shortly after W.W.2, most have not yet passed, they are still alive today and we are the people that Jesus said would be alive when the last days begin. In other words, possibly you and I, and certainly our children will see it. We are they who shall see all these things.

If the 'fig tree parable' has been correctly interpreted into a time-frame and God has given us 70 years, (3 score and 10) or if by reason of strength, 80 years - 1948 + 70 = 2018 . . . 1948 + 80 = 2028. And using God's given life time, (counting from 1948) there is a difference between the 2 examples of 10 years. Then the beginning of Tribulation happening at sometime between these 10 years can't be dismissed yet.

Daniel 9: 27 could be within the next 10 - 15 years, remember that I started to write this in 2012 so this time is less now. It could be earlier, based on the quickening world events that we are constantly seeing and hearing about; one has to ask, how much longer will God tolerate it, grace must fast be running out. But please remember and understand, I am not saying the end will come within this time, I’m saying that this could be the time that we have left before the period of the Tribulation, Matthew 24: 21, which will be a further 7 years, (the last week of Daniel's 70 week prophecy) and then Jesus will come for His bride immediately after. (And so yes, the time left is still very short.) Another past event that should be included here as it has a bearing on future problems for Israel. It was the six day war involving Israel against Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq in 1967. The reasons leading up to it aren’t necessary, but it was a military disaster for four of the strongest Arab Nations destroyed by just one Nation. Afterwards, the Jews relinquished control of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem for political reasons and goodwill gestures, but as will be seen, it will be necessary to regain control over it.

Let’s break it down and remember, what follows is a dramatic change in the way the present World is: Verse 27: And he (the anti-Christ) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: [7 years] and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (The first part of this verse is the start of Tribulation and is when God re-starts the clock to countdown the final week.) The anti-Christ (not yet risen or indwelled by Satan) will broker a peace deal between Israel and all her enemies with all kinds of flattery and deceit. This signing of a seven year peace treaty will be the start of the worst for mankind. And in the midst of the week . . . is the beginning of the second half when Satan indwells the anti-Christ, claiming to be God and enters the rebuilt temple and will be the worst for believers.

Because the building of a 3rd Temple must be built to fulfill the prophecies and this will be one of Israel’s demands at the peace treaty to allow it to be built. I don’t know how long it will take to build, but it will be done well inside the first half of the Tribulation. Since 70 AD no animal sacrifice has been made in Israel but will be revived again in the new Temple. It has been argued that a Temple is not required for animal sacrifice and although that is true in itself, it will happen because of Jewish custom. The animal sacrifices were a literal and symbolic presentation to God by the High Priest to take away their sins but we know that Jesus through His own sacrifice on the cross, once and forever took away our sins by our confession. Daniel 11: 31 tells us of the anti-Christ (then indwelled by Satan) entering the Temple in the beginning of the second half to take away the sacrifices, Matthew 24: 15 tells us the false prophet will cause the 'image of the beast' to be built, 2nd Thessalonians 2: 3, 4 tells us so much more and all confirm Daniel 9: 27. It’s possible through this treaty that a Palestinian State will be established sharing Jerusalem, and will also bring about a New World Order, which many countries including the Pope, have been negotiating in secret for many years. The only worldly question being for a One-World-Government is will it be by consent or conquest? It will be neither; it will be a simple act of acquisition by Satan when he is cast out of Heaven at the midpoint of Tribulation. Can you imagine the bickering and arguing over who should be voted or appointed to rule the entire world? It would stand to reason that it would be the anti-Christ who will head this government. Fallen mankind has just about come to the conclusion that the only solution to the continuous wars is a One-World-Government.

God will send His two witnesses to Israel, Revelation 11: 3 – 13, to preach the true Gospel to the lost to repent now, and many will because of them. They will come very early in the first half of the Tribulation simply because when Satan is cast out of Heaven at the midpoint, he won’t tolerate them being around for too long. They will be clothed in sackcloth and they can’t be killed by any means. If anyone tries to, they will be killed by fire that proceeded from their mouths. They will have the power to cause it not to rain anywhere on the Earth in the days of their prophecy, which will last for 42 months, or 3.5 years. They also have the power to turn waters and rivers to blood and to smite the Earth with all manner of plagues as often as they will. The entire unbelieving world will hate them. The two witnesses are Moses and Elijah - resuscitated. Even though we will now be entering a very difficult time there is still time to be saved but leaving it this late will be very risky. God will also raise 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel in all the World who will be under the direction of the two witnesses, Revelation 7: 3 – 8. They will go out 2 x 2 to preach the gospel as in Luke 10: 1. The war referred to as the Gog-Magog war in Ezekiel 38 & 39, will begin at some point and I tend to think it will be after the Damascus situation and just prior to Tribulation. But that may not be the case - it may be reversed and it will involve Russia who has alliances with Iran and a host of other Muslim countries who hate Israel and some may even be preparing now. There are others also who may take advantage of this scene such as North Korea and China. The casualties from this war will be horrific; it will take seven months to bury the dead. Ezekiel 39: 12. If it is nuclear, it may require specialist teams to handle the radiation in the bones of the dead. Much of the World’s population will perish, not just from this but also from what God will do. In this war, God will be instrumental in bringing about the defeat of Israel’s enemies in a supernatural way that many of her enemies will at last see who the true God is and turn to Him.

Now let’s look at the last part of verse 27: And in the midst of the week he [the anti-Christ] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured out upon the desolate. Many think verses 26 & 27 aren't separated by a gap, i.e. the entire 70 weeks have been fulfilled and verse 27 refers to Jesus. But Jesus hasn't returned yet so it must refer to the anti-Christ. (It also confirms the post-trib view - Jesus returns when scripture is fulfilled.) This is now the midpoint of Tribulation and things are going to step up a few notches. Just prior to this point there is war in Heaven and Satan and his hosts are cast out and thrown down to Earth, Revelation 13: 5 and Daniel 9: 27. This is where he indwells the anti-Christ and is about to take by force, the highest seat in the Temple. The anti-Christ now has absolute power and will exercise his authority in the worst way imaginable. He will coerce the false prophet to stand up, who will cause many to follow him and worship the image of the beast, even unto the end, which is the consummation. Evil rarely works openly; instead evil usually wears a facade of righteousness to cover its real character in order to more easily deceive. What better facade than a church to cover the false prophet’s real identity and most have no idea that the Vatican has an agenda in Jerusalem. Rome had conquered Jerusalem in 63 BC and since 1993 they continue with talks in Israel to regain control yet to no avail, but will pave the way as a signatory when the ‘peace treaty’ is signed, marking the beginning of Tribulation.

During the Dark Ages, (from 450 AD to 1000 AD) the Catholic Church ruled the world until 1534 and slaughtered thousands, if not millions of Christians and is never mentioned today. The World has almost completely forgotten that so many were burned at the stake or thrown to the lions by the Papacy, simply for wanting to worship God according to the Bible. The Bible was even banned during this time under the pain of death. The apostate Church of Rome still says she has the right to punish with the confiscation of their goods, or by penalty of death to those who differ in faith from the Pope. I haven’t just made that up, history has recorded these things. After securing the peace treaty through subtlety and subterfuge, the anti-Christ returns to the US where he rises to power, after which he returns back to Israel and then seizes power by force half way through Tribulation. He will enter the Temple and declare himself to be God and puts an end to the animal sacrifice and worship. He is then assassinated but is satanically brought back to life to the wonder of all and then Satan turns his attention to the Jews. (This paragraph is included for understanding as it fits here in the timeline and there is more to follow.)

It is now that God will allow His two witnesses to be killed by the anti-Christ and their bodies will remain in the streets for 3.5 days and the World will celebrate this by sending gifts to each other because of the torment they caused to the World. Then, a miracle happens, the spirit of life enters into them and they stand upon their feet causing terror to those who see it. After this God commands – Come up here and they ascend up to Heaven in a cloud. At the same hour there is a great earthquake, in which a tenth part of the city falls and in this earthquake 7,000 men are slain and the remnant is afraid. Revelation 11: 9 – 13. This is Day One of the start of the second half of Tribulation, the most dangerous time – EVER. (There is more on the first half to follow.)

It will also be at some time, late in the second half of the Great Tribulation that the U.S., thought by many to be Mystery Babylon, (Isaiah 47: 8 – 11) is brought to her knees in a single hour. How could America, the strongest military power be brought low in one prophetic hour? One prophetic hour is 14 weeks in literal time. I think it’s very likely through their own arrogance in believing in their own safety. Who would have ever thought 9/11? This Nation, which is known as Mystery Babylon sits on many waters, Revelation 17 & 18, which means many peoples and not necessarily oceans, will initially dictate what the anti-Christ can and cannot do. They will be a very formidable dynasty of this time. Not only do they have World political and military power, they are very wealthy and religious in nature – the words “In God we trust” are printed on every Dollar bill in the US. Mystery Babylon has given the beast and the ten Nations their power and is still very much in control but will change in the middle of the Tribulation period when Satan is removed from Heaven and enters the anti-Christ, with serious consequences for all. The beast is described as having ten horns that represents ten Nations, which are subject to the beast. (I don’t know what countries will make up this ten nation confederacy, but as there are twenty seven countries that make up the EU now,? there may eventually only be the ten countries who have signed a treaty to the effect that if one is attacked, an attack is made on all.) This will be the beginning of the end for Mystery Babylon, for Satan will not be ruled over by God and certainly will not tolerate being ruled by man. The anti-Christ and his Kingdom will turn on Mystery Babylon and launch an attack, which will be devastating and conclusive. A possible explanation could be an EMP - Electro Magnetic Pulse attack, which is detonating one nuclear bomb 300 k’s above the middle of the US, crippling the electricity grid and all the back-up systems, rendering the entire country vulnerable and helpless to respond. This would be followed up by many nuclear bombs raining down from ballistic missiles with multiple warheads without any fear of a counter attack because they are unable to do so. As yet, they have no contingency plans to counter such an attack. Some may be saved if they will heed God’s direct warning to ‘come out of her my people’ before it happens, Revelation 18: 4. Mystery Babylon is then totally destroyed and the destruction is so terrible that the land is no longer fit for use or to live on, which can only suggest it will be a nuclear holocaust. This defeat is so swift and decisive it will leave the rest of the World shocked and terrified. This was the strongest Nation on Earth and in one prophetic hour they were gone. Russia and her allies (India, China, Belarus, Iran and Syria) have the ability to do this, Jeremiah 50 & 51. The World is left wondering what will happen next, as they scramble to recoup loss from the financial collapse caused by it and position themselves for what this dramatic change of power will bring. Isaiah 13 is a frightening account of what will befall the US (Mystery Babylon) at this time and confirms her complete destruction.

Let’s now look at the parts of Matthew 24, which are a warning and needs serious thinking on by all. Every verse in this chapter is a story in itself and I have only covered a few and I invite you to look at each one separately and consider their meanings, particularly verse 13, which speaks of a victorious reward.

verse 3: And as He sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the world?

verse 4: And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (Many will come with false doctrines and many will follow them, which is really Satan preparing the way for the anti-Christ.)

verse 5: For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Anyone who tells you this prior to Him coming, you know is a liar. Remember, no-one has seen Jesus until He returns on a cloud, at the END of Tribulation, Matthew 24: 29, 30 where everyone will see Him. (Link verse 4, 5 with 11.)

verse 6: And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that you are not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (IS may just be the start but could also be part of the end.)

verse 7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in all manner of places. (Aren’t we seeing all these things increasing now?)

verse 8: All of these are the beginning of sorrows. (verses 3 – 14 is the first half of Tribulation.)

verse 9: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and you shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. (For this verse and verse 10, see Mark 13: 12 – and it isn’t what you want to read.)

verse 10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. Even those of your own family may/will betray you.

verse 11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (Don’t just blindly follow them, examine them first – look for flaws in what they say, even their written words, [internet and videos] trust only in Jesus.)

verse 12: And because sin shall abound, the love of many shall grow cold. (This is the falling away 1st Timothy 4: 1 and it is 50% of lukewarm believers – read and understand the parable of the ten virgins, Matthew 25: 1 – 13, the 5 wise and the 5 foolish.) This will begin in the first half and reach fulfillment in the second half.

verse 13: But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved. This verse speaks to me of Psalm 23.

verse 14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the entire world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come. (Raised from the 12 tribes of Israel throughout the world,144,000 preach the true gospel to the whole world in the first half of Tribulation and they are the first to be martyred.)

verse 15: When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place, spoken of by Daniel the prophet. [11: 31] Whoso reads, let him understand. (This is speaking of when the false prophet incites the people [non believers] to build ‘the image of the beast’ and having the power to cause it to speak.)

verse 21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. The anti-Christ will rise early in Tribulation and we should recognise him by then but it isn’t until the second half (the Great Tribulation) that he attains absolute power and his mark is introduced.

verse 22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Jesus is clearly saying that all true believers will go through Tribulation.

verse 29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

verse 30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

verse 31: And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. These 4 verses dismiss any pre or mid-trib view.

verses 32,34: The Fig Tree Parable. It is of interest that Jesus spoke this parable immediately after the above 3 verses.

verse 36: But of that day and hour no man knows, no, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

verse 37: But as the days of Noah were, so shall my coming be.

verse 38: For in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark.

verse 39: And knew nothing until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of man be. These last few verses are describing the blindness of people today not wanting to know.

verse 34: Watch therefore: for you know not what hour your Lord will come.

Yet for so many, these are just words, they don’t understand them; life goes on the same as always. The scripture speaks of more wars and rumours of wars; the next is likely just before or into the first half of Tribulation and more serious than the ‘Burden of Damascus’ and certainly could be W.W.3 because it will involve many Nations. And because of sophisticated weaponry it probably won't be as protracted as in previous wars but far more dangerous. The last war is said to be Armageddon - at the end of the millennium, which happens 1000 years after Jesus returns. In Revelation 6, God is telling us some of the things He will bring to pass, which is a parallel chapter with Matthew 24, in which Jesus is the author. In Revelation 10: 6, an angel from God is saying to John that there should be time no longer, and in verse 7, he also says the mystery of God should be finished – this could also fit with Matthew 24: 14, which can suggest the end is shortly or immediately after the tribulation. But Jesus only tells us when to expect Him, not the day nor when the end is. The end mentioned in verse 14 isn’t the end of the world per se just yet, it is only the end of Satan’s rule where he will be bound in chains and cast into the abyss for 1000 years – after which he will be released to try to deceive those non believers who didn’t take the mark, yet survived Tribulation and entered the millennium, this being their last opportunity to repent and claim salvation. This is also when all those who took the mark will either be killed in war or cast into the lake of fire.

Now we come to Revelation 13, which will both shock and terrify you at the same time and was written by John while in exile on Patmos. Two beasts are described in this chapter, one from the sea in verse 1 and one from the land in verse 11. The beast from the sea is the anti-Christ; the beast from the land is the false prophet. (The true Trinity is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit – the false Trinity is Satan, the anti-Christ and the false prophet.) Things during the end times will be chaotic. A time of confusion and uncertainty will cause the people to desperately look for a strong leader who could bring hope and security in a time of fear and trembling. People will seek a strong, authoritative leader who can pull the world back from the very brink of serious disaster. Those people will get their wish as a powerful and charismatic leader sprouting peace and unity comes on the scene. But he will turn out to be much more than they bargained for; he will be a dictator whose cruelty will be more than any other the world has ever known. (We all thought Hitler was bad.)

This man will be the anti-Christ who will rule the entire world through a One World Government.

verse 1: And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

verse 2: And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and Satan gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. (Link with verse 7.)

verse 3: And I saw as one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. Satan incarnates (indwells) the man described as the beast - this is the anti-Christ then someone assassinates him and God will allow Satan to cause him to be brought back to life to deceive all those who don’t believe the truth. This is Satan mimicking the death of Jesus. He will enter the Temple and claim to be God himself; all the World will believe him except true believers. There is a reference in O.T. scripture, Zechariah 11: 16, 17 that indicates he will be blind in his right eye and that one arm will be useless, which could come from the assassination attempt.

verse 4: And they worshiped Satan which gave power to the beast: and they worshiping the beast, saying, who is as powerful as the beast? Who is able to make war with him?

verse 5: And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given to him to continue forty two months, which is reinforcing what Daniel has told us – that his reign will be for 3.5 years after he is cast out of Heaven. This is the same time given to Jesus so he can’t cry unfair.

verse 6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and those that dwell in heaven.

verse 7: And it was given to him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given to him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. This verse could explain a One World Government.

verse 8: And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. There will be some who don’t follow Jesus but for reasons of their own, won’t take the mark and are among the few who survive Tribulation and enter the millennium – and if they repent, they will get a second chance at the end. How patient is God.

verse 9: If any man has an ear, let him hear. It could be that the Spirit will cause us to know more at this time.

verse 10: He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity: he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and faith of the saints. In these days, anyone who leads people to take the beast’s forces captive, shall themselves be made captives and anyone who takes up arms against the beast’s forces will themselves be killed. God is very clearly saying this is not the time to take up arms or rebellion; it will be reserved for another time. The anti-Christ will make short work of any who oppose him. If you are brought before certain powers, take no thought for what you will say for it will be given to you in the same hour. Luke 12: 11, 12.

verse 11: And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. This is the false prophet who causes a one-world-religion by coercing all the fallen religions into one. Two horns like a lamb, think of the hat the Pope wears, and he presents himself as a lamb but he speaks as a dragon. The false prophet has the appearance of a lamb, speaking all forms of flattery, but with the power and authority of Satan. He is the anti-Christ's right hand man.

verse 12: And he exercised all the power of the first beast before him, and caused the earth and those which dwell therein to worship the first beast, who’s deadly wound was healed. Just like the first beast he will also have great powers but his main purpose will be to promote and force all to worship the first beast who rose from the dead, just as Jesus did. Can you see the same similarity here where Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead? Jesus didn’t promote himself but gave all the glory to God.

verse 13: And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. Believe not what you see (as a miracle) keep a firm mind-set for Jesus until we see Him.

verse 14: And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound, and did live. It is the non-believers who will make this image.

verse 15: And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many who would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. This is where it starts to get really frightening; here we see the start of his real intent, to give life to the image of the beast and that the image should speak and anyone who refuses to worship the beast will be killed. Rather than a statue as an image, with today’s advanced technology it could possibly be a very highly developed hologram. We are now living in the last few years of the church age, Revelation 3: 14 – 17, which is Laodicea. The true church, which are those who belong to God are part of the church age but not necessarily part of the church visible, which is the 2000 years between the 69th and the 70th week, (where God stops the clock at the end of the 69th week and restarts it in the beginning of the 70th week and includes Tribulation) and it will be finished at or near the end of the second half of Tribulation.

The papacy could rise to power again through Satan creating a One-World religion, early in the second half by way of the false prophet, coercing the already polluted religions into one. Satan will put his plan into effect through the false prophet, which will be just before the mark is introduced, which means if you weren't aware of these scriptures, he has tricked you. With the anti-Christ now in absolute power, it will be join or suffer the consequences and will be put into effect with the beast as God.

verse 16: And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: A large % of the unbelieving population, even the lukewarm . . . and many Christians, who aren't really Christians at all, will take the mark. The false prophet will cause everyone to receive a mark, either in their right hand or forehead. And it won’t be by force – he won’t have to, it will be voluntary, at first. He is responsible for causing the mark so is equally guilty. You won’t be killed because you refused the mark, but because you’ve refused to worship Satan. It’s so, so very simple, if you don’t take the mark, you won’t be able to buy and sell anything. Can you imagine a more sinister trick than that? How many have stopped and thought about what that means. Just think about it again, you can’t buy or sell anything. Is it beginning to sink in? And that no man might buy or sell, except he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. This indicates it will be world-wide and in place early in the second half after the anti-Christ attains power – no man is specific – none are exempt, if it isn’t God would have said so. The technology is already here with the ‘tap n go’ credit card, no signature is required; all that’s needed now is the legislation to remove cash from the system and to implement the mark. When it comes, credit cards as we know them will be obsolete. We are being conditioned now for a cashless society and will quickly be in place all over the World so don’t think you can escape it. AND, to make it worse still, your name could then be on a register for refusing, just like voting. Where will that place you and I? You may not even be able to live in your own home simply because you don’t have the mark to buy what is required to live in your own home – and you may eventually have to abandon it for a very different lifestyle. I am simply posing what could be the worst scenario. A black market may survive for a while but the whole World will eventually become a cashless society. When this day comes we will know exactly who the false prophet is in the beginning of the second half of Tribulation. Before this order is put into law, we will have come to the realisation that we may be evicted from our homes by a ruthless government under the control of the anti-Christ and we will have to trust God for His deliverance. (Right now I don’t know what else we can do.) We will have to be very careful trying to use a barter system, as that too will probably be outlawed and will cause fear to those with the mark who would even consider bartering with us.

verse 18: Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred and sixty six. (666.)

There are so many things in the book of Revelation that are yet hard to understand, I believe as we get closer and enter these days, our understanding of these things will increase. But I think we all should have some understanding of chapter 13 so that we can spiritually prepare as best we can to survive these days and know what will happen when it finally comes.

I’m sure if this is the first time you’ve read this chapter, you must now begin to have terrifying and serious concerns for yourself and your children. When these days come upon us they will be days of unimaginable terror as Jesus has said. I’ll try and break it down further from my understanding, which may or may not be entirely correct. Isaiah 55 offers a beautiful comfort and we must do everything possible to increase our faith if we are to survive.

(At this point I should include the message and the meaning of what the two angels said prior to the third angel's message, as they are of equal importance and all happening one after the other following the martyrdom of the 144,000 in the beginning of the second half of Tribulation.) Revelation 14: 6 & 7: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgement is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

This is the last warning of which there were so many before, to those still unrepentant, that there is only a short time left - now is the time to do something about it. And in verse 8: And there followed another angel, saying Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city because she made all nations drink of the wine of her fornication.

This is a message to the US, [Mystery Babylon] warning her ahead of total destruction in Revelation 18 but some will be saved if they heed the warning come out of her my people.

If you are willing to refuse the mark because of what you know, you must also be prepared to die for your faith in terrible ways, including starvation and murder. Let’s read what Jesus says: Luke 9: 24, For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: [by taking the mark] but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, [by martyrdom] the same shall save it. I used to be in wonder about this verse as well, until adding the bracketed words, now I understand it. Bear in mind also, even if you do take the mark to temporarily save your life, you will die anyway from what this ‘mark’ will inflict on you, Revelation 16: 2. This mark could be from a laser tattoo, which is painless and invisible but readable with a hand held detector, or an implanted electronic chip and someone may have the power to turn it OFF, so think about what that means as well – but I tend to think it will be a visible mark and worn like a badge of honour. When all these things come to be and a One-World-Government system is instituted by Satan perhaps through the UN and/or the EU, who knows just what manner of persons shall enter this country?

I would think that before the mark of the beast could be introduced worldwide; there must be in place a One-World-Government to enable it to happen. Because of the worldwide instability and hostility, along with global calamities yet to take place, when Satan is cast out of Heaven one of the first things he will do is cause a One-World-Government to be established and he will be its ruler through the anti-Christ. I don’t know the reasons that would cause the world to accept a One-World-Government but it’s easy to see that governments already corrupted by ‘big business’ will become more so in the coming days making them an easy prey to be overtaken by Satan. It may be that the US will give in and agree to world pressure, but then resist through their own pride still wanting to have world dominance, which will cause their eventual destruction. I don’t think we can imagine the speed and scale of the things that will take place when it all arrives. At this point right now, it is unclear who the anti-Christ and the false prophet’s identity really is, but I’m sure as the day gets closer, we will have no doubt. There have been many instances in history where certain people have been tied to the number 666 but we can’t know for certain until he arrives. When Satan is cast out of Heaven and down to Earth, he will need to mask his identity by indwelling someone and as yet, that person isn’t known.

It was the Catholics who unlawfully changed God’s 4th commandment – Remember the Sabbath day; from the 7th day to the 1st day of the week in 321 AD. Break one of the ten commandments and you break all of them. No man has the power to change a law given by God. Daniel 7: 25 and Isaiah 58: 13 is very clear about this and Germany and Croatia have now enforced Sunday worship and will soon be followed by others if not all. The calendar of nearly all countries show Sunday to be the 7th day. Most countries, including the US already have the 'law' in place - it only awaits official enforcement, probably by the anti-Christ. The Sabbath day is and always will be Saturday and you don't have to go to the church visible to worship on Saturday. In fact, most people who go to a church no matter what day, are largely worshiping by mouth only on that day, when every day is how we should be living it, not just one. The ten commandments are just as applicable today as they were yesterday.

This is further evidence of the degradation of the church visible and is the beginnings of subtle conditioning to accept a one-world-religion. I am not trying to be legalistic in any way, nor do I have any connection to the Seventh Day Adventists, I am merely stating a fact.

Because the anti-Christ hasn’t risen yet, and that can’t happen until the restrainer (The Holy Spirit, 2nd Thessalonians 2: 6 – 9) is taken out of the way opening the path for the Tribulation, we can’t really know his identity yet. The anti-Christ (indwelt by Satan) and the false prophet (coerced by Satan) are both earthly men. I tend to think the false prophet is a religious man of high worldly standing. Knowing Jewish customs, it's possible the anti-Christ could be a Jew.

I have been studying a very good site – that has a lot of information on the last days, which aligns with scripture and he suggests as well, that the US is Mystery Babylon and that the anti-Christ will come from there and that he is alive right now. He also says which makes sense, that he is now a young man, most probably Jewish, born in the year 2000 and is significant in that Jesus was born a little over 2000 years ago and began His ministry at age 30. It would stand to reason that by mimicking God and Jesus, the Devil’s son being the anti-Christ would be a similar age to Jesus when he rises to power. In mimicking God, Satan will create his own religion by the false prophet and many will follow it. Satan’s objective is to crush and eradicate all forms of the Christian faith by whatever means.

I will encourage everyone to look at – what I’ve said here is only scratching the surface. Anyone even vaguely interested in knowing what will happen should look at it. There is a wealth of information there, this man has dedicated his life to putting his work out there, which is free to all and I thank God that I found it and I thank him for writing it.

These are some of the things that could happen before Tribulation begins. Firstly the strike on Damascus. If it's before Tribulation, and may come from Israel, or the US (I can’t say for certain it will be Israel) and it could be a singular strike or multiple strikes on her enemies as well – I think it will be a nuclear strike to silence or put fear into her enemies. Israel knows that when her enemies reach nuclear capability it can tip the balance of power against her and as it is only Iran and Syria making noises at present, others may soon join in. I don’t think Iran is immune; she could even be the first one to be silenced. This is why Israel will possibly move against Iran before a nuclear capability is reached because Iran makes it no secret 'that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.' Psalm 83 lists the enemies of Israel by tribe, who are the descendants of the 22 Arab countries that surround Israel today and some aren’t hostile toward her but most want to see Israel destroyed. The problem that Israel will have is whether she can just make one strike on Iran or Damascus and get away with it, or should she hit several of her enemies as she has done before and by doing so, does she risk severe retaliation from multiple countries. If Israel opts for the second choice, she knows she may bring everything down on herself and because of this; she has what is called the ‘Samson Option,’ which is if she sees herself going down; she has said she will unleash her very large arsenal on all her enemies. I don’t see Israel using this option because it isn’t in the scriptures – at least I don’t think it is. I can’t say that it will be Israel who commits the first strike, but it can’t be ruled out either. There may be other serious triggers prior to Damascus, which isn’t far away considering the time that’s left. At some point after the Damascus situation the next World War may begin, which will be closely followed by the signing of a seven year covenant between Israel and multiple Nations. This signing is day one of the first half of Tribulation and the re-starting of the clock to count down the final 7 years. God will now send His two witnesses to Israel, (Moses and Elijah) as well as the 144,000 throughout the entire world and the whole world will know about these things. The re-building of the 3rd Temple will begin soon after the treaty is signed, which will be brokered by the anti-Christ himself. We will have 3.5 years of comparative safety to put our spiritual survival into effect, (if you haven't done so before) and we will need to be aware of these things as society will begin to descend into anarchy. I would strongly suggest to keep watching world events to see what coincides exactly with scripture, particularly Damascus, which is confirming the last days but the recent escalation of world events, W.W.3 may even precede Damascus. These things are just the physical signs of the beginning of Tribulation; there are other signs, although physical as well but are spiritual. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake and so great. This event may coincide with the signing of the peace treaty. The voices and thunders, are obviously from God but not necessarily recognisable. The lightning will be so spectacular it will be seen simultaneously around the globe, the earthquake also will be felt all around the globe, tall buildings will fall, Ezekiel 38: 20 and many will explain it away and won’t see it for what it really is. This is the first of three such events, the second and third being more intense than the first but with an extra terror – hail stones that contain blood and weigh a talent, 45kg/100lb. Once you see the first of these things, the final 7 years will have already begun and time is short. The signing of the peace treaty is the beginning of woes. (the 21 judgements over the entire period) The second event 3.5 years later marks the beginning of the second half of Tribulation and this will be the World’s government systems being replaced by a One-World-Government and will be instituted by the anti-Christ shortly after the beginning of the second half of the Tribulation. If you are an unbeliever in this position and you decide to repent and be saved, as long as you don't take the mark, you might survive. Many plan to serve Him but the day we depart this life is unknown and you could be too late. The third event heralds the imminent return of Jesus. And if you do see this it may already too late for you if you've failed to give your heart to God prior.

Daniel 11: 21 - 45 gives us a clear indication of the events that will take place before and during Tribulation in a chronological fashion and anyone seeking to know these things should look at it. Verses 21 - 23: And there will arise in his place a man of contempt upon whom they will not bestow the honour of the kingship i.e. he will not come to power in a legal, conventional way. Rather, he will come to power through seductive methods and will take control of his kingdom (Mystery Babylon) by means of duplicity. It is from him that the flood waters (armies) will come, to be broken in the end, for he is the prince of the covenant. After men have leagued themselves to him, he will set his conspiracy in motion and will grow in power and become strong even though his faction is small. His home country is the US (Mystery Babylon) and it is here he will first rise to power through seduction, duplicity and an eventual conspiracy. These statements make it clear that the beast's accession to power will come in a manner far outside the norm of political methods. Once achieving the peace covenant in Israel he will quickly rise to power in his own country in the beginning of the first half of Tribulation and then to further his deceit and winning converts, he sets about a campaign against 'the king of the South' (IS) and he is victorious, which will draw many into his web of deceit. Early in the second half after these victories he is indwelt by Satan, being thrown out of heaven and enters the temple and declares himself as God where the real terror begins. Believers who are carefully observing these signs at the time will see and understand that he is in fact, the anti-Christ indwelled by Satan. This is not at all the way he will appear to the world and to those looking for a religious solution, he will seem to be the true Messiah. This paragraph is condensed from ichthys and if you would like to know more, visit

Once you become aware of these things that have been foretold so long ago and you come to the realisation that we ARE living in the last days, simply because it is undeniable from the things that we see happening all around us, drawing closer to God will and should become the most important thing in our lives. I can attest to this and it’s not because I am approaching or entering my ‘twilight years’ – it’s because of love for our Father and His dear Son and knowing what He did for you and me, I pray that this love will only grow stronger in the coming days. When you read Revelation, which has page after page of all the terrible things that are going to happen in the last days but very little on how we can survive, I can only think how much we will have to trust Him to lead us and reveal a way of escape in these days. It says in Daniel 12: 8, 9 and also in two other places, And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, what shall be the end of these things. And he said to me, go your way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. This indicates that knowledge and direction will be given at a time known only to God, and we all need to be listening in our hearts for what the Spirit would cause us to know and we can all pray daily for the Spirit to teach us. The more we rid ourselves of the trappings of this world, the more the Spirit will indwell and teach us if we invite him. John 16: 13 says, Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. I believe, by this scripture, that not only will he show us things to come; we can confidently trust in Him for his guidance in the days ahead by allowing the Spirit to work in you - how much you trust in Him, is the measure of faith.

There is so much inspiration from Noah, God told Noah that it grieved Him that He had created man and that He would destroy man with a flood and He told Noah to build an ark so that only he and his family and the animals to be saved would be saved. And it took Noah somewhere between 60 and 100 years to build the ark. That says a lot about faith. All through the building of the ark, Noah kept faith and believed what God said even though there was so much ridicule around him. Noah knew the flood was coming and it would come at the finish of the building of the ark. You can just imagine the thoughts of all those who couldn’t get on the ark when the rains came. When you read about it you see that it didn’t start with a trickle and the waters slowly rising, it came all of a sudden and not only as rain from above but from fountains of the earth as well. As an example and a simple analogy from Noah, it was a long time to build the ark and Noah’s faith was unshakable but at the end when all were aboard, there were still ‘seven days of grace’ before God shut the door. But not one came in. And that’s how it will be in the end. Compared to the time taken to build the ark, those seven days was a very short space of time. You can liken it to the time we live in now, the period between the sixty ninth and seventieth week –God’s ‘time of grace’ toward us, which has been extended by grace much more than 7 days. How many will enter in before the door is shut - when the last lost sheep is found. Tribulation is coming soon and will come at flood speed, there will be much more than ridicule, it will be the worst of persecution and the only way to get through it is having a PREPAREDNESS OF MIND by learning of Him so that you can stand. If you don’t stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all. As an analogy ‘after the war begins, it’s too late to learn to shoot a rifle’ and, If we remain faithful to Him, He will remain faithful to us. Revelation 2: 10 says: Be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life. FAITH MUST BE MAINTAINED AT ALL COSTS.


To add a little about the above paragraph, when the Restrainer who is keeping everything in check, is taken out of the way, most of the unbelievers and neutrals as well, who would normally and morally behave in a decent manner, will descend into anarchy and a fearful lawless behaviour never before seen. The hostile environment during Tribulation will be a far worse and difficult place to live for Jesus than it is now. In Revelation 2 & 3, it tells us of the seven churches in the 2000 year church age, and a study of those churches will reveal that Smyrna - the era of persecution, and Philadelphia - the era of revival, are the only church eras that were trying to conform to true Christian principles. In between Smyrna and Philadelphia, (1080 years) the churches have slid downhill by the infiltration of satanic influence. It is no longer "what the Bible says" which is what it should be, but it is now "what will contribute to growth." I'm sure you know what I mean. We belong to the era after Philadelphia, which is Laodicea - the era of degeneration, which has led to spiritual paralysis and loose standards, and we don’t have a very good standing in our faith at all – saying that we are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. We have become this way largely because of our material pursuits, placing worldly things in front of love for Jesus. If our love is considered lukewarm, what will it become if it cools even further? It will only add to the insult that it is and serve to increase the risk of our own apostasy in the persecution in Tribulation. So many are completely held captive in spiritual blindness and totally unaware of the fate that awaits. Hence we must be very careful to observe Matthew 21: 28 - 31 and Matthew 24: 12, which are both very good examples and warnings. If you've never read how Jesus describes the era of Laodicea, Revelation 3: 14 - 22 is very unfavourable of our poor standing in our faith and is a severe warning to improve our status. It is worth the time to read, even if it comes as a shock. Tribulation may even force many to make a decision and I can only hope that Tribulation will shake some lukewarm Laodiceans out of apathy before it's too late. Verse 21 speaks of a victorious reward to aspire to: To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame and am set down with my Father in His throne. This verse means so much to me and I hope it does to you too. Likewise, the things that will happen in the last days should never be ridiculed or dismissed, nor put off to a more convenient day. When Jesus returns there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth by so many. I believe we are now in a similar situation – a week or so before the flood in Noah’s day. A few verses in Hebrews 12 appeal to me and may to you also: Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which does so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Think on these last two sentences and what they mean – it may literally happen to us. Many in this era of Laodicea will face 'strong delusion' from God and that they will believe Satan's lies. In short, God will not strive with apostate unbelievers forever, giving them over to their own desires.

For some time now I have thought of a possible ‘escape plan’ simply because we have been given prior warning in the N.T. but I now wonder if it contributes to the wrong mind-set, as such preparations can by their very nature incline towards selfishness and self-preservation. (Fear) What worries me the most, is making any material preparations for the Tribulation in any way, not trusting in God’s will and His plan? Because we know that He loves us and has a plan for all of us, going contrary to His plan will only put us outside that plan and could lead to all sorts of unforeseen problems. I just hope and pray in the coming days He will provide us with the best answer, and I know He will – by adopting a patient ‘wait and see’ approach. We must allow ourselves to be responsive and obedient and to trust the Spirit’s promptings. “We will do well to remember that money or material things cannot save us – only God can”. He will deliver us through it in His way, as He has done before - not from it. No matter what, failing to completely trust Him will only lead to a fall. In Daniel 12: 1 the last part of that verse appeals to me : and at that time thy people shall be delivered, [either alive or in death] everyone that shall be found written in the book. I think this is clear enough and will be the true test of faith when it arrives. Because it will be impossible to buy and sell after the mark is put in place, which will be worldwide, just how it will play out here is unknown as yet. Even the best laid plans often never go as expected or hoped, we will need to be very flexible in this and be ready to change as things unfold. The main thing will be not to neglect our spiritual progress. At this time we don’t know how God will provide for us but as He provided manna in the morning and quail in the evening and most importantly water for 40 years to the Israelites, even though they had their flocks with them, it certainly is possible for Him to do it again. We will have to believe that He will provide in some way, and continue praying about it because we could be trusting in ourselves rather than Him, which is very dangerous. (Stand still and wait on Him.) I know that He will save those destined to be saved; (I just don’t know the how?) otherwise none who refuse the mark would survive Tribulation. When I think of the several times I know that God has saved me from certain death, and I can only think He must have had a good reason. (As an analogy, God didn’t rescue me from the surf just to beat me up on the sand!!!) I am confident that He will provide for us, that much I know, I can’t say it will be the same way as He did in the Exodus, no-one yet knows, I’m just using it as an example but I’m still very uncertain as yet of what He wants us to do. My main concern is Luke 9: 24, which cannot and must not be ignored. Because of the uncertainties at this time it will be very hard to resist acting on our own impulses and taking our own way, (perhaps the wrong way and at the wrong time) which could lead to very serious consequences that’s impossible to foresee. You could say that by trusting in ourselves just a little bit is really distrusting God by a proportionately larger amount. God handed over His own Son who died for us so that we might live, isn’t that love completely beyond our comprehension – then it stands to reason He won’t forget us in Tribulation. As it is God who decides whether I am brought through it or not but if God has marked me for martyrdom, then so be it, I would much rather face this death for Jesus – (than the second death) which guarantees my salvation, He died for me and washed me with His blood. I hope that courage won’t desert me and that I am found constantly in prayer.

As sinful creatures that we are, caused by Satan in the first instance - he wanted what we have, that is a physical body and being regarded as God's children for His good pleasure. Satan's role as a spirit was that of a servant and because of intense jealousy, he felt secondary to us and was never content in the role God placed him and is why he rebelled. This placed God in a position of what to do to save mankind whom He made in His likeness without compromising His perfect being. This is why He gave His only Son, who knew and agreed beforehand, as a sacrifice without price in our place, which nullifies Satan's claims of our sinfulness. All believers are saved by His gift regardless of sins, (and repented of - we all sin) unbelievers aren't saved regardless of good conduct. How perfect is God's love toward us and doesn't that make you feel totally unworthy of His unspeakable gift? We must never forget the price that was paid for our ransom of which we can never repay. There is a saying - Born twice, die once; born once, die twice. We should know and remember that.

Loss of faith will end in apostasy, by our own lukewarmness, which should motivate all of us to draw closer to God. Seeing it is so close now and Revelation is warning us about the END TIMES and what to be aware of, it is the summation of everything before it and chapters 21 & 22 are a beautiful coronation that we should all set our hearts upon in the hope of that day. None of us know the day of our departure and we should all be as prepared as possible, living as if today was the very day that we meet with Jesus. Whether we live or die, either before or during Tribulation, whether it be through natural causes or at the hand of an enemy, settle it within yourself beforehand to suffer it in the knowledge that Jesus paid a much higher price for all our sins to win our salvation – which should have been our sentence. He was innocent, yet He was numbered with the transgressors on our behalf.

The following is an excerpt from a paragraph in ichthys in 'The coming Tribulation.'

"It is a well known Biblical principle that nothing is more difficult to endure than 'woe upon woe.' During the Tribulation, it will not only be the horror of events, but also their exceptional rapidity and escalating intensity that, barring sufficient preparation, will be sufficient to stun even the strongest of believers, removing any chance for normal recovery from emotional shock on account of the continuous sequence of pressure-filled events that will characterise the period. In short, there will be no breathing space in the Great Tribulation to come, and instead of a single event with which to cope, we shall be faced with a continual layering of terrible events quite unprecedented in their character, which will occur one after the other in ascending intensity. But God is supremely sufficient to supply all our needs, even in this most trying of times. Under such circumstances however, it should be evident at the outset that proper spiritual preparation for that time of testing will be absolutely essential for faith to survive. For the Tribulation will be a time when normal, secular strategies for coping with pressure and disaster will be found wholly ineffective, only a solid, deep abiding faith in the Lord is likely to endure this unprecedented coming assault, a fact that explains in no small part the phenomenon of the great apostasy, the wholesale turning away from the Lord (and hence from salvation) which will characterise that difficult period. This is our first glimpse of the true nature of the Tribulation to come and our first indication that no amount of prior spiritual preparation will be regretted on the part of those called upon to suffer through it."

Something to think on and it encourages me.

I will look for Him today and if I don't find Him I will look again for Him tomorrow, and if I don't find Him tomorrow I will look again for Him the day after that - and the day after that, until I find Him. This speaks to me of Psalm 27: 4. It is our duty, as brothers and sisters in Christ to encourage and help others in their walk, the same as we would hope others would help us as well and every Christian is given at least one spiritual gift, perhaps more and 1st Corinthians 12: 4 - 11 tells us what they are. The trick is knowing which one is given to you. It remains for all of us to ask for the Spirit to help us and begin/keep reading the Bible and particularly as it is a brilliant help in understanding the Bible and then form your own opinion as to what I've said. The reason I trust so much is because he doesn't try to conform scripture to his doctrine - he conforms his doctrine to scripture and he lets scripture do the talking, which is rarely seen or heard these days. If you’re thinking of getting a Bible and I hope you will, I'm glad if I've encouraged you and one thing is certain; until you’ve done that you can neither agree nor disagree with me. And we are all, a work still in progress.

I find so much encouragement and wonder in 1st Corinthians 2: 9 - But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for those that love Him.

If anyone is interested and would like to read more of my articles, rather than searching for them, just click on the titles and it will take you there. These articles are about salvation, some more direct than others but all will be of benefit to you. And if you deem them to be worthy and true, you might like to save them to 'favourites' for future reference. you don't need to save all of them as they are all here - if you'd like to have them, simply save this one. I constantly review these articles as the Spirit teaches and whenever I review them, if you've saved them they are updated on your computer as well. You may even want to forward them to friends.

  • THE RAPTURE PRINCIPLE: Is It Before, During, or After?
    Many have differing views on this and I think the reason people believe something is because they heard it first from someone else and most believe the first thing they hear if it seems to be true. But you should examine it yourself before you agree.
  • A Short Essay On Faith
    Faith is not a physical thing that you see on people at first glance but you can see the evidence of it in them by their actions. And faith is a trait that should never be hidden so don't be afraid to show it. By your actions someone else may benefit
  • SIN - The Wages Of Sin Is Death.
    Sin is a subject not many are willing to address, thinking I've still got time to fix but no-one knows the hour of their departure. The past is where you learnt the lesson, the future is where you apply the lesson, don't give up in the present.
  • Do You Know What Time it REALLY is?
    So many are just drifting in this world on a windswept ocean without a thought of the rocks ahead that are so close. And with so little time to alter course and steer a safe passage - now is high time to think about salvation.
  • The Genesis Gap.
    Was there a world in existence before the flood of Noah? Look a bit closer, scripture will reveal it.
  • The Spirit of Life - God's Gift To Us
    This article is about the natural and spiritual timeline of man from Birth - to death. And how God made Adam from clay and then breathed life into him, and is exactly what He did to us, which is the very life within us. But so many are blind to it.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on July 22, 2020:

Hi Olusegun,

Thank you for your comment, it is very much appreciated, and amongst all the 'noise' that is in this world we can easily be distracted in the search. My prayer is that nothing would prevent us and we would continue the search until we find Him.

My best regards,


OLUSEGUN from NIGERIA on July 22, 2020:

I love these words in your article, “there is a saying - Born twice, die once; born once, die twice” … Let us keep searching for him until we find him and know him deeper than the deepest. The word is deep. Good work.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 24, 2020:

Hi Cristine,

Thank you for taking the time to read and comment and from our conversations a while ago I appreciate your efforts in helping others - something we who know Him, will all be called to do as the day draws closer. Thank you for your blessings and may I reciprocate.


Cristina Santander from Manila on April 24, 2020:

This hub indeed is a great wealth of information. Thanks for sharing it here. Bible prophecy and eschatology are the subjects I find most interesting. Stay blessed.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on September 05, 2019:

Elijah and Jay C Obrien,

As I have tried my best to tell both of you before I can only again repeat - your 'ideas' (from somewhere in you heads) are divergent to mine and what scripture and the Spirit is telling me.

The 'ideas' that you and others have formed many years ago is now entrenched in your minds to such a degree that you now believe what you think instead of what you read. Have either of you forgotten that Satan masquerades as a friendly spirit?

I have allowed these comments thus far as beneficial to others who may read them to see your false ideology. And I think that most who have a reasonable understanding of scripture will see them for what they are.

As McCullyn said in his closing sentence in the last paragraph of his last comment - "This will be my last reply" so it is mine.

The time will come when I will simply deny your comments.


Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 05, 2019:

MC G, The Tribulation began a few hundred years ago, it is the Great Tribulation that begins while the messiah is in control of the US Government that the world follows (Isaiah 2:2-4) until he enters Armageddon. All of those wars and those Americans don't have the knowledge fought all around the earth during those years you didn't include. LOOK THEM UP.

Clouds hide heaven or the sky we usually call heaven, that makes it a metaphor saying he will come hidden from what man believe heaven is. A prime example is [ ] Rev. 12 where a boy is called a woman when in fact the woman and the man-child are the same person. Adam's words "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called (woven from man)" (Gen. 2:23) makes them woman for being "woven from each other". Thus, the woman and man-child are one and the same.

That is why Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." God has to direct our understanding of his word from within us. Isaiah 1:18 say we are to reason with God, Isa. 28:9-11 say we must leave religion's teachings and teachers for god to show us how to put precepts upon precepts that man-en-mass will not hear and 45:7 say "I the do" good and evil through us, which makes us "living robots" without understanding of purpose for everything.

Heaven is within us (Luke 17:21) so our bodies are clouds hiding the heaven where God dwells, so it is with everyone who will enter Armageddon with him the messiah who divides the foolish from the wise virgins before they enter Armageddon with or before him. The division takes place as we are ushered into the virgins' safe heaven of Armageddon.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and all of those "cloud" passages are talking about the man-child will to be recognized since no one seems to be able to recognize who he is. He is "hidden in plain sight" as there are passages that even give his name but few people Recognize it as the messiah.

Jonathan Cahn in his "The Pyridine" has told us who to look for and say "these are the days of" his name, so I believe we need to start seeking God within ourselves and stop looking to people who "ministers for profit" to show us the way. If they were "ministering truth" they would not be selling their messages.

The sea is a "killing field" but the sea of blood will be human blood spills by everyone not in Armageddon.

There is no reincarnation? Why'd Paul say "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the {7th, Rev. 10:15} trump(et) of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {opening of Armageddon} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: {one at a time during the 7th millennium before the Alternative world of Rev. 21} and so shall we ever be with the Lord." how will "the dead in Christ" rise except (Rev. 20:4) before the rest of the dead "resurrect" to replenish the earth (Rev. 20:5) by then natural birthing process by the survivors and "dead in Christ". Those in Rev. 6:9-12 are the dead in Christ that the foolish virgins replace (Rev. 14:13) until this world ends again (Ecc. 1:9).

Again, I admonish you go to God within you for the one true teacher of the words' meanings.

McCullyn Graham on September 05, 2019:

Jay C OBrien,

Reread my previous comments. I'd only be repeating myself by responding to your reply.

Elijah A Alexander Jr,

No, it couldn't be said the Tribulation began when the Americas were founded unless you misconstrue scripture to suit your notions. So there hasn't been a threat or enforcement of war since the Americas were founded? Truth. World War 1, World War 2, the Revolutionary War, Vietnam War, 1st Barbary War, Tecumseh's War, War of 1812, Creek War, Black Hawk War, Mexican-American War, Apache Wars, Yakima War, Utah War, American Civil War, Snake War, Nez Perce War, Philippine–American War, Border War, Russian Civil War, Korean War, War in Afghanistan, Iraq War, etc..

"And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet." - Matthew 24:6. "...but the end is not yet." Why do you make a big deal out of warfare when clearly it was anticipated in scripture?

It's apparent the Tribulation hasn't begun because not a single war has been great enough to be applicable. Scripture is really nonambiguous⏤it's merely the readers who misinterpret or misapprehend it. Jesus Christ's 2nd Advent is mentioned many times in scripture:

-Revelation 1:7 “Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.”

-Matthew 25:30-32 “Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.”

-1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

-Matthew 24:42-44 “Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

This has clearly not happened & it clearly never even hints at a reincarnation or second Messiah/Christ. You are very likely to be fooled with those notions of yours. You're expecting another Christ in the midst of the coming of the anti-christ⏤and you're encouraging this faux-dogma to other believers.

Has the sea turned to blood yet? Has the sun increased its heat drastically? Has their been overwhelming darkness? Has 1/3 of the human population died? Has there been the Mark of the Beast where everybody is forced to receive it or they will not be able to buy/sell? Has the anti-christ ruled the world under a one world government? No? Then enlighten me on how the Tribulation could have ever begun in the past.

2nd Seal:

Worldwide civil discord, incineration of law & order, increased crime, persecutions, revolutions, etc.. Keyword: "Worldwide." The Seal has nothing to do with past wars. It is the degeneration of order & civility in every society worldwide.

(Note: The Tribulation affects ALL.)

3rd Seal: Failure of economy worldwide. Harsh economic control, scarcity, corruption, and constraint. It cannot happen worldwide until there is a worldwide economy which would be cryptocurrency. This did not even exist in the past. It will be implemented under the rule of the anti-christ.

4th Seal: Drastic increase in death. Swift increase in the mortality rate worldwide.

5th Seal: The Great Persecution. The occurrence of martyrdom. Slaughter of Christians worldwide under the reign of the anti-christ. Yes there has been persecution in that past & the Bible is clear on that, but there has never been a persecution worldwide of Christians of every sort. Not just Protestants or Catholics. Not just Episcopalians or Baptists. Every Christian who doesn't adhere to the religion of the anti-christ. This has not happened yet.

6th Seal: (You'd know if you read scripture instead of trying to manipulate it to fit your own personal beliefs.) It's Christ's 2nd Advent & divine judgement. How convenient for you to not know this one when it's clearly written in Revelation. There will be a great earthquake like no other, the sun will cease to give light, the moon will be red similar to the color of blood, the Battle of Armageddon, and the return of the Messiah.

7th Seal: The 7 Trumpets. C'mon man, what Bible are you reading? "When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings,a flashes of lightning, and an earthquake." - Revelation 8:1-5. It's right there. What you're saying is very far from what scripture reads. How can I take your word for anything when your word isn't His Word?

"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." - Matthew 24:24

"And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray." - Matthew 24:11

"Thus says the LORD of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD." - Jeremiah 23:16.

"And the LORD said to me: 'The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.'" - Jeremiah 14:14

Scripture warned us about people⏤such as yourself⏤teaching false things. You & Jay C OBrien have done nothing but misconstrue scripture to forward whatever agenda/dogma you have. It's back to back. Most⏤if not all⏤y'all say has been contradicting scripture. Why do you insist on leaning on your own understanding? It is clear you fit scripture around your notions as opposed to your notions around scripture.

"As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned." - Titus 3:10-11.

I have given many, many warnings & corrections in this thread. I cannot converse with a man about a tree when he insists it's a brick. I pray you two will find Him. It is truly a weary feeling to sit here & read deceit over and over; especially if it's from so-called "believers".

"A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion." - Proverbs 18:2

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding." - Proverbs 3:5

Jay C OBrien & Elijah A Alexander Jr,

I have seen nothing from you two that sides with His Word. All I have been reading are endeavors to forward teachings not found in scripture. Why do you feel the need to manipulate scripture? Just take it as it is. I see no reason in deceiving others. What personal gain do y'all have? You link to your own articles & regurgitate false information. I have not seen anything in scripture backing any of your guy's views; therefore, your views are not of His Word. This will be my last reply.

The Truth will set you free & deceit will chain you to the 2nd death,

M. G.

Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on September 05, 2019:

God is the root, Jesus the vine and we the branches. All are connected and growing. Do you believe this?

I said I was Not Catholic and do not defend atrocities by the Catholic church nor the Jews, nor the Christians, nor the Hindus. I am opposed to the killing of humans using religion as an excuse. Now do you understand?

Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 05, 2019:

M. G., It could be said the tribulation began when the Americas were founded, since then there has hardly been a time when some kind of war has not been enforce or a threat of one. History tells us that if we open our minds to what the the scriptures say compared to what is happening. How many places do you know fit and so many other prophecies?

Here are the 2nd through 5th seals.

2nd; Since the late 1800s there has been some kind of war not in the USA with with the USA being involved in 1898s U.S. Treason caused war with Spain over Cuba and about every 20 years since other U.S. Treason caused engagements with WW 1 & 2, Vietnam, Iraq 1 & 9/11 that has not stopped since moving into Afghan.

3rd; A penny means a days wages and during the 1800s a common laborer's wages were 50cents a day and look at how the cost of a loaf of bread is $3 or more.

4th; How much of the earth are in constant war to this day including European-Americans warring against Americans of color for how long?

5th; Can not be seen by us for "The Dead In Christ" we are not seen by alive human.

6th; I don't know.

7th; The Messiah brings world peace (Isaiah 2:2-4) by entering his temple (Malachi 3:1) or USA's White House as the highest or most exalted nation to last a few years until 5 of the 10 (% or earth population per Rev. 7) virgins are sealed in Armageddon before "The Battle of That Great Day of God Almighty" spills the "red sea of blood" that they are protected from in ending the world.

Don't take my word for it, ask God in a sincere prayer.

McCullyn Graham on September 04, 2019:

Elijah A Alexander Jr,

Appointed unto the Catholic Church my whom? Not by the God I serve. The first seal hasn't been opened yet. It will during the Tribulation which is what the whole book of Revelation is about. It is also done by the anti-christ's forces as opposed to ignorant, evil, & condescending Catholics in the middle ages. The 7 seals are opened during the Tribulation which has not occurred yet according to scripture. The atrocities are nothing more than the Papal Church exercising their corruption & ungodliness. Very similar to Nazi Germany in my opinion. There will be wars & rumors of wars. This was predicted. Though it is not the 1st seal. (There has also been other times in history where Christians were persecuted.)

I don't specifically know what you're referring to when you say, " they will not fall victim of their prosecutions". Are you referring to the Tribulation? If so, there will be martyrdom (the 5th seal, Revelation 6:9-11). The first death & suffering in the physical world is minuscule compared to eternity. Believers will be victims, but the reward is great. Martyrdom shouldn't be sought after, but it should be embraced when inevitable. You'd be able to tell through the Holy Spirit.

I think a lot of believers want to deny this fact out of fear of it; however, God did not give us a spirit of fear. I for one do not fear the first death nor should anybody. As you continue to grow in faith, it becomes less significant relative to the second death. You see? People (including believers) will indeed be alive after the 7 years. We shall see.

God bless,

M. G.

Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 04, 2019:

McCullyn, since "There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven..." It was appointed unto the Catholic Church to impose those atrocities on humans as the unsealing of the first seal (Rev. 6:2). They went with the crown, "the knowledge of Jesus the messiah", and the bow to kill any who didn't accept heir version of it. Since the Protestant churches are an offshoot of it they also prosecutes those few who know truth. That's why the "Born Again" are to live like the wind by sharing and moving (John 3:8), so they will not fall victim of their prosecutions.

McCullyn Graham on September 04, 2019:

Jay C OBrien,

Catholicism? Don't make me laugh. On August 24, 1527 the Roman Catholics in France murdered 70,000 Christians within 2 months and the Pope celebrated. Altogether the Papal Church persecuted & killed millions of Christians for 1260 years. Why? Because they refused to submit to the authority of the Papal Church. Please inform Pope Francis that his religion is a living contradiction to Christianity. Catholicism has an awful history. They worship their church more than God quite frankly. They pray to Mary & other saints as well (idolatry). Just the work of the Jezebel spirit. Most of their teachings isn't Biblical at all. I'd stay away from Catholicism. This will happen again in the Tribulation.

As far as the quote, "Violence by man against man is in contradiction with any religion worthy of that name," I think it's merely a cognitive distortion⏤an over-generalization. What about self-defense? What if people are being oppressed & a country can help (Nazi Germany, Jew - WWII)? Again, this might make the ignorant raise their hands & praise him, but it's simply unrealistic. Certainly isn't Biblical either. Though violence is mostly uncalled for, but I won't say it isn't needed.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-9:

"There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—

A time to give birth and a time to die;

A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.

A time to kill and a time to heal;

A time to tear down and a time to build up.

A time to weep and a time to laugh;

A time to mourn and a time to dance.

A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones;

A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing.

A time to search and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep and a time to throw away.

A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;

A time to be silent and a time to speak.

A time to love and a time to hate;

A time for war and a time for peace.

What profit is there to the worker from that in which he toils? I have seen the task which God has given the sons of men with which to occupy themselves."

So, as intelligent & understanding the Father is, it is clear he is aware of how complex life can be. However, we must make sure the things we do is of Him & not sinful. For example, lying can be a sin. What if a murderer asks where your friend is so they could murder them? Do you tell the truth? Of course not because you would be responsible for the death of your friend. As you draw nearer to Him & pray the Holy Spirit will assist you in calculating what "time" it is.

Have a good one,

M. G.

Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on September 04, 2019:

Thank you. I am not Catholic, however a quote resonates with me.

"Violence by man against man is in contradiction with any religion worthy of that name," Pope Francis January 18, 2016

What say you?

McCullyn Graham on September 04, 2019:

Jay C OBrien,

"...can we agree that the killing of one person by another is wrong?"

No, that depends on the circumstances. Murder is wrong in all circumstances. Killing can be justified⏤it's relative. Penalty due to a particular crime committed to self-defense. The Canaanites were sacrificing children. Read this commentary of Joshua 6:21 "As for the infants, they were at the disposal of their Creator; and it was a great favour to them to take them away in their infancy, rather than reserve them to those dreadful calamities to which those who survived them were exposed."

Matthew 10:28 says "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul..." Moreover, when David's child died he said "Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” - 2 Samuel 12: 22-23. This suggests the child went to heaven. (Note that this wouldn't be exclusive to David's child as every child is born with the sin nature.) Given that children aren't intellectually capable to comprehend sin fully, it is highly likely they are spared the 2nd death by God. Jesus Christ adored children & even went as far to say we should be like them. God is just & fair.

Killing children is wrong but in this case God simply spared them of the pain they'd go through as they got older. You have to understand eternal life is far greater than this mere physical world. Don't be so fixated on the first death. It's inevitable and very insignificant relative to the second one. Those children would have gone to heaven & are thus far better off than anyone on earth.

(Also, it is posited by some scholars that the phrase "women & children" simply is a phrase used in ancient Hebrew which essentially means "everyone"⏤not literally women & children. It's thus a figure of speech. The only "women & children" mentioned was Rahab & her family and they were both saved. Also, apart from Joshua 6 & 8, all other accounts of Israel killing Canaanites only included the death of combatants and not civilians; thus it is assumed the civilians were simply driven out.)

So yes I think killing children is wrong unless the Creator (who knows everything & thus the future of said children) deems it necessary.

"In my my understanding 'Judgment' is a comparison of our intentions with that of the creator. We should learn to 'Judge' with Compasion."

Keywords there: "In my understanding..." Again, all you're doing is manipulating truth to fit around your personal beliefs. Judgement is a divine sentence/decision made by God. Who are you to question or tell Him how to judge? You do realize none of the corruption & evil in the world was meant to happen, correct? You realize it was caused by mankind's free will, correct? Compassion? Why do you think God sent His Son? Why do you think He made the Garden of Eden? Why do you think He made the third heaven? Why do you think He will make the New Jerusalem (heaven on earth)? Why do you think we have free will? Why do you He even created us and gave us the breath of life? Please, spare me.

"Yes, what you do to others will come back to you because we are all connected. God is the root, Jesus is the Vine and we the branches. We are all part of the same organism and we are growing."

No, we are not apart of the same organism. Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Father essentially are. We are created by that organism. I think you're misconstruing analogies in scripture. We are not God nor will we ever be God. We are His creation. Simple. There is judgement because there are consequences for sin. Don't know how that is evidence of us all being connected. I have given you several reasons & explained⏤in detail⏤New Age Christianity's flaws. I've refuted all of your points. Are you reading my replies?

There is only so much I can do for you, Jay. I cannot force you to perceive & seek the truth. You must do that on your own. I refer back to the scripture I placed in my last comment:

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” - Joshua 24:15

To God be the glory,

M. G.

Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on September 04, 2019:

Thank you, can we agree that the killing of one person by another is wrong? Killing children is wrong. (Joshua)

In my my understanding "Judgment" is a comparison of our intentions with that of the creator. We should learn to "Judge" with Compasion.

Yes, what you do to others will come back to you because we are all connected. God is the root, Jesus is the Vine and we the branches. We are all part of the same organism and we are growing.

McCullyn Graham on September 03, 2019:

Jay C OBrien,

I was reading scripture and some verses in particular really grasped my interest. Remember when I was explaining New Age Christianity and how the foundation is convenience & comfort? It appears Jeremiah had some complaints to the Lord our God regarding false teachings which are very present in NAC. Specifically teachings about... you guessed it... the lack of judgement. Teachings which you are indulging in. Interestingly enough, the Lord responds to Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 14:13-16

Then I said: "Ah, Lord God, behold, the prophets say to them, 'You shall not see the sword, nor shall you have famine, but I will give you assured peace in this place.' "

And the Lord said to me: "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and deceit of their own minds.

Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who prophesy in my name although I did not send them, and who say, 'Sword and famine shall not come upon this land': By sword and famine those prophets shall be consumed.

And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem, victims of famine and sword, with none to bury them⏤them, their wives, their sons, and their daughters. For I will pour out their evil upon them."

It is clear false teachings/prophesies are of great importance. The consequences of them are staggering. "For I will pour out their evil upon them". This simply means He will give them consequences relative to the amount of sin they have committed. They will endure the repercussions of their own evil. It is clear how these false teachings affect the people adhering to them. It's very much a domino effect.

To put simply, this scripture is saying that those who preach of no sword or famine (no judgement or consequences) will receive judgement (sword or famine); moreover, those who abide by these teachings will also be affected by the evil.

So I'm sure you can see Jack Jenn's perspective now, right? For your teachings not only harms yourself, but they can also harm others. The prophets completely disregarded the Truth. The Truth that is presented to us in the Bible. They constructed their own beliefs using God's name as a conduit. This is identical to what you're doing, Jay. Can you not see it?

Remember what I said: "You're rejecting scripture because your own subjective view on what morality should look like. Instead of dissecting scripture to understand God's decisions you're succumbing to benightedness. You should not focus on what seems to be the case, but search to discover what is the case. You might as well have said, 'Yes, God is the embodiment of objective truth & morality, but not if it contradicts my view of truth & morality. God must be different then.' You're determining God / constructing the view of God based upon your personal notions."

Repent & seek His Word. I've seen first hand the deceit. I've held atheistic views at one point & I've held New Age views at one point. I did however overcome them. To God be the glory. You have to choose what you will seek. A good analogy is the red pill (truth) & blue pill (blissful ignorance). It is clear which pill you indulge in will ultimately lead to destruction (the blue pill).

A thief can easily steal when the owner is ignorant of the thief. To end this, I am going to use the words of the author of the book of Joshua:

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” - Joshua 24:15

McCullyn Graham on September 02, 2019:


"The Hebrew word for jealous is קַנָּֽא׃ & it's more closely related to passion; love"


"The Hebrew word for jealous is קַנָּֽא׃ & it's more closely linked to passion & judgement."


"You have uncover the meaning & intentions behind the words in the Bible unless you want to just learn Hebrew & Greek."


"You have to uncover the meaning & intentions behind the words in the Bible unless you want to just learn Hebrew & Greek."

For some reason it didn''t implement what I edited. Ignore the grammatical errors. I type too fast sometimes.

McCullyn Graham on September 02, 2019:

Jay C OBrien,

I addressed the intent, message, and perspective behind the questions which in turn makes a specific answer unimportant. You're welcome I suppose.

God is not within us in the sense that we are God; moreover, God does not need us in order to exist, to thrive, and to create/destroy. We are however dependent of Him in order to flourish⏤attaining salvation & even sanctification. You nor any human being can have consciousness within nothingness. If we could then we would have to embody nothingness (which there is clearly no evidence of, but evidence against). If we did then how come you or any human being isn't creating things & demonstrating their "God power"? If we are apart of God then we should be able to have the abilities pertaining to Him, correct? That in of itself demonstrates our dependence on Him. He determines who we are and we are not God. Our spirit is immortal, yes. Though that is also determined by God.

There can be education within destruction. Destruction isn't an inherently immoral/wrong thing to do. Especially when the destruction is from God Himself. I don't understand the negative connotations behind the word.

"Yes, that is why the evil acts depicted of The Lord in the Bible is Blasphamy."

Quite the contrary actually. That is why the acts depicted of the Lord in the Bible are justified. I don't see how any of the acts done by God in scripture are evil at all. What constitutes evil behavior to you? Anything you deem wrong? That's hardly a robust position. Sin is essentially opposing God. Does God willingly bring harm to the sinless, righteous, etc. or is it the sin of mankind that brought it upon themselves? Jesus Christ accepted the position of a servant to the Father:

Matthew 26:29 "And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.'"

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

Philippians 2:5-9 "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,"

Jesus wouldn't have to die on the cross if it weren't for the sinful nature of mankind. You're rejecting scripture because your own subjective view on what morality should look like. Instead of dissecting scripture to understand God's decisions you're succumbing to benightedness. You should not focus on what seems to be the case, but search to discover what is the case. You might as well have said, "Yes, God is the embodiment of objective truth & morality, but not if it contradicts my view of truth & morality. God must be different then." You're determining God / constructing the view of God based upon your personal notions. Do you see how this could be an issue?

"I do not know why Jack Jenn is so upset. Just answer the questions without name calling. Hubpages exists for discussion. So discuss! I really want to know the anwers to these specific questions. Explain."

1. When the Tribulation is drawing near it is important for people to be presented with the correct information solely because their eternal life depends on it. While that may induce less tolerance it is justified. As Jack said, "I mean you no ill will Jay,..." It's nothing personal. I dislike echo chambers; however, at times it could be justified especially if it's not rooted in selfishness but rather concern for other people. Just because Jack says you lack understanding doesn't mean he's inferring you're not capable of achieving understanding.

2. a) "Did Joshua have God's blessing to kill the women and children of Canaan?" Yes, he did. I'm assuming you want me to explain why God authorized this. As stated in scripture, the Canaanites indulged in sinful/immoral behavior insofar as they became irredeemable. Since God allows free will, he won't force them to adhere to His law. Free will does not mean freedom from consequences.

(Verses to read: Leviticus 18:21-30, Leviticus 20:2-5, Deuteronomy 12:19-31, & Genesis 15:16.) The Canaanites were clearly a degenerate society. Their sins ranged from incest to sacrificing their children to Molech (an idol).

b) "Did Jesus believe his Father willed that Jesus be tortured to death?" Yes, He did. I already gave you verses above of Jesus submitting to the Father's will. Since Jesus is divine in nature only He could bear the sins of mankind. This in turn guarantees an opportunity for us all to gain salvation and to be with God for all of eternity. Jesus knew this and it was His choice to do the Father's will. He knew in advance what would happen (Matthew 26:29). You may ask, "Couldn't the Father have done it another way?" and to that I respond with: of course. He also couldn't have created Lucifer. However our God follows through with the laws He establishes. He wanted His creation to have free will so He creates Lucifer because it wouldn't necessarily be "free will" if he only created beings who obeyed Him. Furthermore, God showed His love by sending His Son to us. That includes the Son who willingly took & conquered this task because He loved us. The Father chose to be away from sin since sin is the embodiment of the opposite will of God. Since mankind has fallen, He wanted to be consistent in His nature. Jesus is a symbol of redemption. We will remember that for all of eternity. It is a powerful reminder and God knew it would be and so He sent His Son so that we will be connected to God through Christ. (1: Man is sinful and sin is opposite of God. 2: God removes Himself from sin consequently. Conclusion: God became man in order to save mankind.)

c) "Is God the Father Jealous, Vengful, or Wrathful?" In Deuteronomy 4:23-24 it states that God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) is a jealous God in the context of idolatry; therefore, it is saying He is jealous for mankind; His creation because He loves us very much. Imagine having children being deceived by a man (an idol) who will only harm them. You have to remember that the Hebrew words cannot directly translate to English perfectly⏤which means we have to study it carefully⏤especially since our word's meanings change over time. The Hebrew word for jealous is קַנָּֽא׃ & it's more closely related to passion; love as opposed to malice or envy. But according to Merriam Webster "jealousy" is "hostile toward a rival or one believed to enjoy an advantage." Obviously there is nobody equal to God so God is hostile towards sin since it is the opposite of His will. Sin destroys us in the second death & even throughout our life. So why wouldn't be God hostile towards sin & how would it not be justified? Would you be hostile towards a man who harms your children?

As far as wrathful then yes. Towards sin. Towards evil. Which I actually appreciate. That doesn't suggest His wrath is rooted in evil or immorality. These emotions are only negative when they're being powered by sin or immorality. God has self-control. God is holy. God is the embodiment of morality. He knows how to conduct Himself and rightly so. You have uncover the meaning & intentions behind the words in the Bible unless you want to just learn Hebrew & Greek. If "wrath" is condemned then it's referring to wrath which is evil, sinful, selfish, and belligerent. The Bible elaborates on sin many, many times.

Good day,

M. G.

Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on September 02, 2019:

McCullyn Granham: Thank you for addressing the questions, even if not directly.

1) God creates us; therefore he has the right to destroy us.

We are part of God. God is within us. There is no destruction, only education.

2) God is the embodiment of objective truth & morality; therefore anything He does is objectively good, true, and moral.

Yes, that is why the evil acts depicted of The Lord in the Bible is Blasphamy. The actor was not God, but a Man who was deified.

I do not know why Jack Jenn is so upset. Just answer the questions without name calling. Hubpages exists for discussion. So discuss! I really want to know the anwers to these specific questions. Explain.

McCullyn Graham on September 01, 2019:

Jay C Obrien,

You're referring to the criticism that the Lord is unjust, merciless, murderous, and "wrathful". When discussing the nature of God, it is important to be as objective as possible; moreover, one could infer the idea that we're inept when it comes to judging or analyzing God. I reckon there is more than one way to look at this:

1) God creates us; therefore he has the right to destroy us.

If we were to perceive it from a rational perspective, it is only reasonable that God has the right to destroy what He creates. If He wanted to, he could force everyone to worship Him. If He wanted to, He could destroy you and create a more obedient you. If He wanted to, He could wipe out the entire human species in no time at all. I'll posit this: Who has the ability/right to tell God He can't? If He is the Creator of everything (including what is right & wrong) then He has the divine, ultimate, and infinite ability to define morality/immorality as He chooses⏤and who will stop Him⏤despite of what His creation thinks. This leads me to my next point...

2) God is the embodiment of objective truth & morality; therefore anything He does is objectively good, true, and moral.

If God wiped out people (e.g. Noah⏤the flood) then that action is inherently good, moral, and right. How? Because He defines what is good, moral, and right. If you disagree then you must be able to prove you are equal to God which is impossible. Think you can do it? Alright. Explain to me how you would create your own universe out of nothingness in a completely original manner. You must not use anything within this universe (matter, atoms, space, time, thoughts, ideas, spirit realm, energy, antimatter, etc.) to create it. It has to be completely original. You can't use any concepts of hot or cold, light or dark, good or bad, big or small, open or closed, etc.. That was already created by God. It has to be nothing but original. (Note: No human being has ever been able to do this nor will anybody ever will.)

I'm going to paint you a picture: Imagine a Being that embodies nothingness. A Being that embodies the infinite dimension. A Being that has a level of consciousness that is intrinsically beyond everything and anything including the state of nothingness. This Being invented the concept of matter, the concept of space, the concept of time, the concept of the preternatural, and the concept of all things within these things, beyond these things, and the things created within these things. When there was nothingness, there was God. When there was God, there was nothingness. His essence is the state where nothing can exist but Him. He is the ultimate, eternal, and original source of everything. He is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He knows your thoughts before you think it therefore nothing you think is original in the slightest.

Now, people like to complain about the fact there is a hell. That there is eternal punishment. I say if there is anybody/anything that goes against this Being (God) willingly then eternal punishment actually seems very appropriate. Quite frankly, who in their right mind would go against the Creator? Especially when He gives us countless amounts of opportunities to follow Him. Especially when He loves His creation enough to respect us by giving us free will. Especially when He sent His son to die in order to give us the chance to be with Him. Especially when His Word tells us how to go about our journey to salvation and righteousness. In my eyes it would even seem appropriate for God to put anyone who sins at all in the eternal fire; however, this is not who God is. He shows mercy. He gives us chances... many chances.

Look man, I can sit here all day justifying God's actions. I can explain to you in detail what He did and why He's right. You could uncover this information for yourself if you tried. The point here is it's absolutely not our right to question a Being that is incomprehensible to the most extravagant degree. God⏤being as good, beautiful, and right as he is⏤is fair & just. He doesn't just do anything He wants to for the sake of doing it. He is setting the example of how to be good in every aspect, facet, and meaning of the word. Sin is intrinsically evil. God is very much beyond sin. He is the opposite of evil. We are very blessed to have a God that tolerant & patient with His creation.

Jack Jenn,

I got your email. I'll be responding soon. Take care, buddy.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on September 01, 2019:

Jay C Obrien,

I see your memory has deserted you, not to mention your complete lack of understanding. You were the very first person to comment to this and another of my articles where you displayed your total ignorance of scripture. I tried to tell you then but you clearly haven't yet learnt and I honestly feel sorry for you.

Have you heard the phrase, not all Israel is Israel? And do you know what it means?

Before I ever posted on HubPages I realised whatever I would say would attract comments from your kind but truth will always stand.

I mean you no ill will Jay, I just hope you will change your ignorant stance before it's too late.

McCullyn, you said it far better than I could and if he continues in this vein I will simply deny his comments as they don't help anyone.

My best regards McCullyn,


Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on September 01, 2019:

Did Joshua have God's blessing to kill the women and children of Canaan?

Did Jesus believe his Father willed that Jesus be tortured to death?

Is God the Father Jealous, Vengful, or Wrathful?

Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 01, 2019:

Jay and McCullyn, as I read the book, Adam, Eve and everyone who married their ideology (Gen. 6:2) were judged and sentenced to live civilized. The coming judgment judges whose qualified to become man to live depending on God only. They are the 10 virgins of which half doesn't discarnate again and half who has one last incarnation as this civilization ends.

As for Jay's "Jesus is Not returning as describred in the Bible, but he could reincarnate" I have to disagree. There are symbols throughout the Bible indicating there are 2 messiahs to come. The earliest I recognize is Exodus 4:6-8 that indicate Moses was even a third that man-en-mass will not believe, then Jesus who is preached diseased leprous as snow or white to be followed by another Christ of color.

We have the Rock that destroyed Nebuchadnezzar's dreamt image by falling on its un-united peopled feet (Dan. 2:40-45).

We have the 2 rocks Moses Smote in the wilderness, the first (Exo. 17:1-6) was smitten once (Jesus didn't have to go through a "new birth" which is a death) while the second (Num. 20:1-11) was smitten twice because he had to go through a "new birth" (he is both the woman in Rev. 12 and her "man child") before he can unseal the book (Rev. 5:5) and later slain ("Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing" Rev.5:12).

We have the "Rod" from Jesse's stem (Jesus) and "Branch" (the coming one) from his roots who arrived about the time Israel was restored in her homeland (Isaiah 11:1-12). And there is a multitude of others [ ].

McCullyn Graham on September 01, 2019:

Jay C OBrien,

Firstly, you're essentially forwarding agenda and discrediting the Bible so it becomes relatively acceptable; you're justifying that by saying the authors (many of whom knew Jesus Christ in person & learned from Him) are somehow corrupted in their hearts. This is not only fallacious⏤as if an ad hominem (which is inherently inaccurate) is competent enough to be the foundation of such a belief⏤but it's heresy. I would like to know the authors/founders of the notion that "The days of Tribulation is now, in this life. In the afterlife we compare ourselves to the ideal (love, forgiveness, acceptence). This is Not a Judgement, but a comparison." and how they're less corrupt or more enlightened than the authors in the Bible.

Moreover, on who's authority is the Bible a conflicted book? Of course I've heard these claims before inasmuch as I understand where it originates from: Ignorance. The issue here is your belief is a much more comfortable & convenient perspective which attracts/bonds with hedonism & relativism. Both of which rely on subjectivity and thus is predisposed to become corrupted, deceitful, and consequently farther from the truth. If this is indeed the foundation of your perspective then there isn't much to add besides the fact it isn't robust.

(Note: Would you even know about Jesus Christ if it weren't for the Bible? Thought provoking, no?)

The issue with New Age Christianity is the irrational habit it has to cherry pick verses, misconstrue verses, and blatantly manipulate them to revolve around their own favorite, personal, and subjective belief. What you have done it far worse. You take concepts & people (Jesus Christ) that were founded/discovered in the Bible, reinvent them, toss the Bible, and then claim that belief to be the truth. You make bold statements, but the words behind them are nothing short of sophistry.

(Note: Did you know Jesus Himself read scripture [the Old Testament]?)

I think your belief relinquishes everybody from accountability and justice. If there is no judgement then what is the value of justice? If murder was legalized and there was no punishment/judgement then how would you think that would affect society? If anything, people would be more inclined to immorality & crime. You may respond, "I don't need a judgement to be moral." but neither do others. Neither do I because God's love & wisdom (the founder of good/morality) is enough for me; however, what is stopping the sinful & immoral? There is no such thing as being immoral/sinful and having no consequences⏤or there shouldn't be. There is such a thing as being moral/righteous and living a wonderful life (e.g. The Garden of Eden, 3rd Heaven, New Jerusalem).

The Tribulation is not now and if it was then it would be from the beginning of human existence (if you were to be consistent with your logic). You need to elaborate what you mean so I can better understand your logic and the logic of your perspective. In the afterlife we compare ourselves to the ideal? That isn't exclusive to the afterlife. We can compare & contrast ourselves now with a better version of us just by contemplating it. Where does your sense of morality come from? Definitely not from mankind. You can observe how inconsistent we are as a whole in regards to morality now & in history. Do you believe in the biblical God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit)? If not, why?

Why reincarnate when you could descend from the heavens? Doesn't that take too much time? Also, He undoubtedly would be returning if he was reincarnated. You're referring to the manner of which he returns. I think you need to consider scripture & actually study it before you call all of it conflicted & corrupt. I would also like you to elaborate on how the men who wrote the Bible were corrupt in their hearts. None of that makes any sense to me.

What is a foundation if the pillars aren't defined? If one man thinks one to be taller than the other while another believes one to be shorter then wouldn't the structure collapse? If each man creates his own foundation and disregards the true foundation then how will their foundation hold during a storm? A storm where only the true foundation can stand. True believers don't follow God's Word/Truth because they prefer it over others. They follow it because it is the truth. It's accurate, informative, and enlightening. Most importantly, it leads to salvation. Christians are told to persevere & put forth effort. They are told they might be called to die for their faith. Anyone who is hedonistic/seeks pleasure or comfort wouldn't even think about indulging in true Christianity. Yet, people do. Why? Because of faith. Genuine faith that you don't see in New Age Spiritualism. You might add, "Well it's because they fear going to hell." to which I'd respond: Present this statement to any believer here & tell me if anyone says they're a believer because of the fear of consequences. Do you not murder because of jail or the death penalty or do you not murder because it's wrong? One could add, "Nah, it's just because you fear going to jail." but that is an assumption isn't it? The truth goes beyond the material or immaterial (matter, space, heaven, hell) for the simple fact God is beyond the material and immaterial (matter, space, heaven, hell), and He is the truth.


M. G.

Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on September 01, 2019:

"The actual day of the beginning of Tribulation is unknown, just as the day Jesus returns is unknown but you may be surprised to learn that these days are much closer than you think. The thoughts that I will present here are from the Bible only searching for the truth."

The days of Tribulation is now, in this life. In the afterlife we compare ourselves to the ideal (love, forgiveness, acceptence). This is Not a Judgement, but a comparison.

The Bible is a conflicted book written by the corrupt hearts of Men. It is Not to be used as a guide.

Jesus is Not returning as describred in the Bible, but he could reincarnate.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on August 30, 2019:

Hi McCullyn,

Thank you - yes I got your email I will look at it again after I respond to your post here.

Glad to hear what you said in your second paragraph and I like your use of the word pursue. If only more would just simply realise there is nothing to lose but everything to gain if they would just allow themselves to give in instead of fighting it.

I have often tried to think of why it is that so many run away instead of toward Him - I can't fathom it. Human nature is a strange thing and as I've said before in other posts - there are two natures in all of us that are constantly at war with each other, our human nature and our divine nature. Which one will win - the one you feed!!!

Which is a good analogy of Romans 7: 15 - 25.

That's so true isn't it.

I also like what you say in your 3rd and 4th paragraph where you mention martyrdom and also wanting to be used by Him - I think along those lines as well.

Regarding martyrdom, it' natural to fear death in a violent way and none of us know what is in store for us but know this: If it is our lot to suffer death for His sake you can be sure that it is an instant guarantee of our salvation because we have given our life for Him and we will see Him immediately on the other side. Jesus was looking past the cross. This is how I'm preparing it that's my lot.

"I want nothing more than to be used by God. I am nothing without Him." That's a wonderful aspiration McCullyn and it should be everyone's - there is only one requirement and that is to be willing, the Spirit will take care of and do the rest, we can be confident of that. It is mine too.

You're quite right in your last sentence and we can rest assured every lost sheep WILL be found, even if it's at the last day. I believe Tribulation will immediately follow as God will not delay too long after that as there won't be any need to.

Your brother by His mercy,


McCullyn Graham on August 29, 2019:


I sent you an email. I used my main email address as opposed to my one on this account. I hope that didn't affect anything. Let me know if you got it. I copied my email just in case I screwed it up, ha!

I will definitely pursue scripture frequently & joyfully. Ichthys is a great website indeed. I just so happened to stumble upon it too. Praise be to God for that. I actually sent him an email asking him some questions. He answered and directed me to the posts of questions you're talking about. So, starting today, I do read them. Go figure, huh?

Ah, that's cool we're born on the same month. 1944? Wow. Congratulations. Are you sure you would prefer me to address you as Jack instead of Mr. Jenn? Haha. I'm kidding. Apparently I'll have to endure the 7 years. I can't say I'm surprised. I've always known deep down I'd be present in the End Times even before I visited Ichthys for the first time. I'm currently in the process of being spiritually prepared for martyrdom. I don't know if that is my fate, but spiritual preparation never hurts.

I want nothing more than to be used by God. I am nothing without Him. I am undeserving of many things, but thanks to Christ I have an opportunity to be with Him. If he marks me for martyrdom then so be it. I'm not too fixated on earthly matters anymore. I use to indulge in conspiracies, politics, and the like. Now I've discovered seeking truth can be a distraction in of itself unless it's God's truth. If I simply put my faith in Him to guide me through deceit instead of wasting years on researching (relying on my own understanding) I would be far closer to God than I am now. Now I focus more on His Word. I see no rational reason to fear the first death; however, I am still fearful. This is what I have to work on.

I'll pray for you too, buddy. I do think about God's feelings on Lucifer betraying Him, Adam & Eve disobeying Him, humanity before the flood, and humanity as it is currently. I also feel for Jesus when Judas betrayed Him. I know what that feels like from experience. When you give your all to someone and they turn your back on you. Especially when it's family. It doesn't feel too good. Every now and then I would contemplate humanity in the grand scheme of things. In that moment it'll hit me at times how far we've fallen from God's love. It's sad indeed, my friend.

Faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. If we love our enemies it will not only please God, but it will also save ourselves from negative emotions like hate, depression, and anxiety. It will be difficult to continue to watch society deteriorate. It will be difficult to turn the other cheek. Ecclesiastes 3:8 does say there is a time for love and a time for hate. A time for peace and a time for war. It's important to hate the evil people do and not the people themselves.

I don't know, man. It's a weird feeling knowing these things will take place. Part of me wants to praise God and part of me wants to hide under a pillow quite frankly. I need to grow spiritually as I mentioned earlier. I still have time. The Lord never leaves the one sheep behind.

Hope you got the email,

M. G.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on August 29, 2019:

Hi McCullyn,

Thank you for your follow up post, much appreciated.

I can see from what you've said, you have a correct perception of the degraded status of the spiritual condition of man in general, which will only get worse, far worse over the next 6 - 7 years. (I'm using Bob Luginbill's time-frame.) We have become this way because of our own lusts and denying God and His dear Son, which you have so clearly pointed out in your response and as you also say, we have become desensitised to the things that are happening all around us - and we can understand how God must feel in His heart, just so sad.

I understand and believe what you say about dreams and visions, God uses all of us in different ways (we all have different gifts) so don't be disheartened by what others may say at all. I still see your dream in the way I've said - it's a precursor of things to come in the Tribulation. Because of the rising escalation in the decay of society, which is seen all around us and no-one can deny it, it is hard to imagine just how far society will degenerate and I tend to think of what it must have been like in the days before the flood in Noah's day and scripture tells us this: As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the end - that's pretty clear isn't it. And without a firm grounding in faith none will survive it.

I will only encourage you again to keep reading your Bible and ichthys and listening for whatever the Spirit will say. There is no online ministry like ichthys and I'm sure you already know that. Do you read his Saturday posts of questions that people ask him - always good food there too.

On a lighter note, we have the same birth month - I was born on the 4th of June 1944, which makes me 75 and thinking further from that, I'll be 81 or 82 when it begins God permitting. So it's quite possible I will see something of Tribulation, just how much I don't know.

You on the other hand will be 25 or 26 and barring mishaps, you will certainly see it, perhaps all of it hopefully unscathed and only God knows the true meaning of your dream so who knows what you may be called upon to do in that time. I am not saying that to place any burden on you - merely to make you aware that there is a possibility He may use you for whatever reason whenever.

Keep your present attitude McCullyn and never lose sight of what is promised to those who love Him and hold fast to what you believe - you already have a good grasp on these things.

I will keep you in my prayers my new found friend and I will look forward to anything you will say in an email.

Again my very best regards McCullyn.


Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on August 29, 2019:

M.G., I feel very strongly that you are here for our meeting because 1) I am "Born Again" with a life like John 3:8 say is the evidence and 2) am revealed that "The Tribulation" had it beginning with Israel's 1948 reclaiming of their homeland Mat. 24:32-34's "Parable of the Fig Tree" means. The following interprets it.

Israel's reclaiming their homeland was predicted in Isaiah 11:1-12 with emphasis on 9-12. Psalms 90:10 indicates the life expectancy of man is 70 to 80 years and when added to 1948 = 2028 for the completion of this world. (Note, Gen. 1:14, Ecc. 1:9 and Rev. 17:8 is a few, indicate the earth IS NOT a onetime thing but repeats itself forever.)

Where we are today is typed by Daniel 2-6 but I will only the interpretation of 2-4. Chapter 2 has Nebuchadnezzar, after questioning what the future has was shown in a dream he was giving birth to the end of the world that would end with the Second Christ (rock) taught by God falling on a dis-United nation (USA) that would complete the birthing process and the with messiah's coming would end the world. With that nation being Babylon the feet would have Mystery Babylon for its name.

Chapter 3 indicates 5 (% of civilization) of the 10 virgins (Mat. 25:1-12) would be closed up in Armageddon (Rev. 16:15-16) with the Christ in that nation while being destroyed by fire (Rev. 18).

Chapter 4 reveals Mystery Babylon begins space exploration (the supposed walk on the moon), have (military) branches to the ends of earth and feed birds and animals (zoos) be being cut down with its stump being secured with Brass and Iron bands (the Messiah and a Help Meet protecting it from within) after its bragging self-exalting "DICTATOR" is removed and will live with the 5 foolish virgins (symbolizing 7 Millenniums before Revelation 21 begins) where he will live for 7 years before he becomes one of the (Rev. 14:13) Dead in Christ of Rev. 6:9-11.

I am revealing this to you because your posts sounds like you have a specula calling.

McCullyn Graham on August 29, 2019:


I haven't been to this website at all besides my visit 35 hours ago. I didn't even realize I could post information on my profile until you told me so thanks. I had to shorten my comment & I couldn't elaborate on things that I wished to. I was perhaps too blunt. I want to say that I am nothing without Jesus Christ our Savior.

Take care & thanks for the opinion, buddy.


“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;" Acts 2:17

I actually do have an interpretation of the dream. It became more clear as time progressed & as I began studying scripture more. I've always thought it'd be good to have another opinion especially a fellow believer. I wasn't able to elaborate much since there is a limit of characters we can use (8192). Apologize for that.

The dream I had was years ago & it has an impact on me now. I brushed it off in the past. I've had others as well which are very similar to the one I posted here. I do remember it well which is rare for me as I hardly remember dreams I have the day after I have them. It does sound theatrical I suppose; however, I didn't exaggerate anything. I appreciate you not being judgemental & I want to reiterate what I said to Elijah. I am nothing without Jesus Christ. I don't seek any special treatment nor do I see myself as better or more special than others. Everyone has their calling. Acts says people will dream dreams & have visions. I think it's typical for people to have dreams that revolve around their own purpose or prophecy. I think it's only truth for God's Prophecy to revolve around nobody other than Christ.

God shows us what He knows we need. I agree with that. I don't know how the Tribulation will go down specifically, but the dream (based on my interpretation) seems to correlate with a time before the Tribulation. (I'll email you so I can elaborate.) I would say some people would have more mental/spiritual calluses than others to handle specific information about the Tribulation. I don't think I'm anywhere near that level, but I wouldn't doubt there are people that have heard from God. As Mr. Luginbill in part 7 of "The Coming Tribulation" says, it is important that we are spiritually prepared. That could mean being aware of events that God has shown us or simply being strong enough to endure them. I don't know.

Quite frankly, based upon scripture, the Tribulation could start tomorrow in the sense that we're not waiting for the populace to become desensitized or sinful as it would be during the End Times. There is deceit beyond measure everywhere. People, in general, seem to seek comfort & convenience rather than God & His truth (His Word). I think this is why people indulge in a pre-Tribulation Rapture. It's convenient & comfortable. It's eye candy relative to soul food (God's Word/the truth). This is also how verses in the Bible can be cherry picked & misconstrued. For example, "Christian witches" (yes, this is a real thing). Christians who practice witchcraft. Noah wasn't removed from the flood, but he was saved through the flood. Daniel wasn't saved from the lion's den, but he was saved through the lion's den. This is the essence of having faith & persevering through Christ.

Sinfulness is by no means exclusive to my generation at all, but my generation is being groomed in the worst way. Unfortunately (as an example although anecdotal), all of my once Christian friends are now doing drugs & behaving in a way that affects me negatively. I don't judge them as that is God's job, but it's difficult to find healthy relationships nowadays. As the Bible says, it's best to depart from these people. I also think music is hindering our growth. Hip-Hop/rap is the most popular genre now and people my age (older & younger too) are listening to songs that promote sex, violence, drugs, wealth, etc. & are regurgitating it via their behavior/beliefs. Instant gratification is being advertised (literally--there was a commercial with the words "instant gratification" while advertising video games). Social media, music, movies, games, etc. all promote this. So while some may know the truth the habit of being too lazy or mentally/spiritually inadequate to break it will be a reason why people will fall. Being too attached to instant gratification can give us irrational standards for reality. Once we're disappointed, most people indulge into getting instant gratification/euphoria instead of seeking God which requires effort. This can also lead to a variety of problems like depression, anxiety, etc.. (Based on psychological research, social media increases depression, anxiety, and a low self-esteem within the youth.) We already know people are be prescribed medication that isn't tested & only brings us away from our faith/truth in God. The U.S. & Canada alone own half the world's pharmaceutical revenue yet places like Portugal (who invested in rehabilitation) are doing better than we are as far as the drug/addiction crisis. I wonder why...

There is a rapper who got killed recently & he is extremely popular now do to his death (hundred million views from a single song). In one of his songs called "The Boy with the Black Eyes" he states "The evolution is near", "the brains will abandon their religions & believe in themselves", & "the anti-christ is in my mind." Now many people see him as a teacher. I say this to emphasize the fact that grooming is being done on multiple levels. Industry plants (artists who are forced into popularity to forward an agenda) are sprouting all of the time.

You said this: "There are many who will say that what we are experiencing now has all happened before but it wasn't, or isn't to the same extent or degree." This is the truth. Technology has become the world's one language. Sin has been spreading rapidly via technology. In no other point in earth's existence have people been able to communicate by way of voice discussion, email/text, "FaceTime" (literally seeing each others faces live on a small, thin screen), etc. and have been able to stay in tuned with news almost instantly from around the whole earth. The man who shot & killed those people in New Zealand broadcasted the massacre & posted it on the internet for hundreds to see (and it's still on the internet). A one world economy would be easily achieved because 1) There is already cryptocurrency 2) There are already electronic tattoos & 3) Elon Musk just recently created a microchip which could be implanted in our brain to achieve "symbiosis with artificial intelligence." These are facts, not some conspiracy theories. Not to mention there are already chips that can be implanted in our wrist (forearm) & therefore it wouldn't be impossible to implant them in our foreheads. I don't understand how anyone could remotely think the world has been like this in the past. Let's say they're right & it's not as bad. Due to technology & the corrupt/sinful in power, it would take no time at all to spread sin throughout the world. Anyone could make a video proclaiming themselves as God & billions (literally billions) of people will have access to that video.

I could go on. Anyway, I will email you soon. Thanks for your response, friend.

Take care,

M. G.

Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on August 29, 2019:

Jack, I do read the posts I reply to but what most are only repeating what mainstream Christianity has said. What "I prefer reading testimonies on profiles rather than what most say" means is most only repeat the words of scripture while "saying without words" what the written words are saying is self-explanatory. But I see Isaiah 28:9-13 indicating the scriptures is a scattered puzzle that and to understand them one must first translate the symbols into their times reality to reveal the truth of by combining them to paint the intended pictures.

When I respond to most posts I am saying "I appreciate your presentation and would like to present another view to reason your views against (Isaiah 1:18) then to take in meditation to God enthroned in your heart (Luke 17:21)." It's not intended as a "putdown" but an encouragement when I post anything to another's writings. Criticisms are neutral, it's the receiver's attitude toward them that say that "was a putdown or an encouragement. I only intend to encourage, I don't post putdowns.


Elijah NatureBoy

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on August 28, 2019:

Hi McCullyn,

Thank you for your comment and I must admit, it isn't one that I was expecting and I'm trying to think very carefully in my response to you. The last thing I would ever want is to lead you in the wrong direction or to dishearten you - but I really see your comment as a cry for help (possibly) and I just hope in a small way that I'm able to do that.

From what you've said the dream has obviously had quite an impact on you and in writing it down, it's very detailed from your memory.

From first reading it can sound like a script from the movie Avatar - and please don't think I'm being condescending of you, far from it. Not knowing you personally, as in your character, I can't say whether the dream is of a Satanic nature or if it's Spiritually given and I'm hoping it isn't the former. I can even understand that you may have had misgivings about sharing this with me and I hope you will accept that I'm taking it in the vein you have intended.

I am in no way gifted to interpret dreams and on reading it through a couple of times, I see it as a revelation of the horrors of Tribulation and I believe because I have no reason not to, that it is Spirit given. And now that you have disclosed it, it is now 'out there' for all. And in saying that I hope someone with the gift of interpretation of dreams might also comment IN THE CORRECT WAY for you.

If that happens, please, don't forget to ask the Spirit to help you discern it.

We know that scripture tells us of the events in the Tribulation but the true horror of it isn't fully revealed and I think it is deliberately so simply because it is too much for us to handle at this present time. Who knows how we would react if we knew the complete details of it? Suffice to say we have the warning.

I completely agree with you in your second paragraph where you mention the degradation of society - I can only echo your thoughts of such a decadent age where you are but it's not only there, it's in the rest of the world as well, which is only confirming the last days of which we are living in and I'm sure you already know that. There are many who will say that what we are experiencing now has all happened before but it wasn't, or isn't to the same extent or degree. And the world is blind to it. Sadly, we are the minority and that figure is soon to diminish when it arrives.

I am also glad to hear that what you believe is derived from what you read and if you will allow me to digress here a little - I've only written 8 articles on Hubpages, all of which Robert Luginbill has graciously linked them in ichthys and I hope the article on the Strait gate will interest you. I too, decided long ago that 'churchianity' wasn't for me (I'm sure you already know why) and I would only try to adhere to Bible teachings and it can be difficult on your own, then I found ichthys in 2014 and it is my sincere hope that more who are seeking will find it.

McCullyn, I am really at a loss to advise you further and I am happy to respond further through here (which may be edifying to others) or contacting me by email should you desire to.

I hope you will continue to keep reading your Bible and ichthys and listening for the Spirit's leading, he will never lie to you.

I also thank you for your courtesy by addressing me as Mr. but I'm happy for you to call me Jack.

Again and always, thank you for your comment McCullyn and my very best regards,


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on August 28, 2019:

Firstly to Elijah,

Thank you for your comment and by your comment it would appear that you are still somewhat interested in what I have to say and I am happy about that, even if it is just in curiosity.

As I have mentioned before I have read some of your posts but your 'ideas' and mine are quite divergent and to me, they don't really fit with what I read in scripture.

I'll let McCullyn decide what you've said for himself.

I mean you no disrespect Elijah,


Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on August 28, 2019:

McCullyn, why not post that information on your profile, I prefer reading testimonies on profiles rather than what most say. Then began writing your views of life based on your experiences. That is just a thought from another seeker of the purpose for being.


Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on August 28, 2019:

Jack, the answer I have but didn't include in my earlier post is about the year of 2028 arrived at by realizing the Parable of the FigTree (Matthew 24:32-34) is the return of Jews to to there original homeland by the 1948 war. I used 80 years as the maximum presented in Psalms 90:10 for a generation and added it to 1948 to get the year 2028 to complete all of the prophecies.

What I see is Trump's presidency is typed by Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 4:1-33) who RULE, not govern, over the nation that has reached heaven (space station) with (military) branches to the end of the earth feeding the animals and birds (in zoos) and is destined to be cut down with the remaining stump (Armageddon with 5 of the 10 virgins or % of the population of earth to be lead a Moses like messiah {Deut. 18:15 & 18 iron band} and an Help Meet {Gen. 2:20 brass band} while Mystery Babylon is destroyed {Rev.18:4 typed by Dan. 3} overheated furnace). Then everything after Revelation 13:10 begins to happen ( to bring the world's end until a "red sea of blood" has been shed by everyone not in Armageddon by 2028ish.

McCullyn Graham on August 27, 2019:

Greetings Mr. Jenn,

I actually found this article through a link on the website you mentioned. Robert Luginbill's notions are definitely derived from scripture. I've read most of The Coming Tribulation, 1/2 of The Satanic Rebellion, and now I'm switching back 'n' forth between Bible Basics & Peter's Epistles. Needless to say, I agree with everything in your article. Based on the research & studying I've done, I don't see how a pre-Tribulation or mid-Tribulation rapture is likely at all.

Anyway, I wanted to share some information with you about myself. I don't know if you'll even read this, but I hope you will. I'm currently 19 years old born in the year of 2000 on June the 20th. I live in the United States. From a young age I've been noticing a lot of deceit, corruption, desensitization, & the growth of sin. I've seen it more in my generation & the U.S.. I've always been eager to seek truth & develop wisdom since I was young. I was born & raised in a Christian home. Wasn't raised under any specific denomination. Just simply read the Word.

I actually lived in an old apartment where my family was constantly under spiritual attack. I heard, saw, and felt things that were definitely not of God. We did moved but it didn't stop there. Only in the middle of high school (towards the end of my sophomore year) would it really stop.

Now I could go on & on about these specific instances, but one thing in particular happened to me that I will never forget. I had a dream. One that has always stayed with me. I want to know your opinion on it:

There was once a place on earth with gigantic oak trees in the woods. They were at least 100 meters high. Every single one of them. The branches & leaves were so wide & thick that you could barely see the sky. This place was located deep within a huge forest. It almost seemed impossible to escape from. Whatever happened in the forest, stayed in the forest. Whatever happened outside the forest, stayed outside the forest (at least for most people). Now towards the center of the forest there was a huge village. Houses & fortresses were built around & on the trees. Some were on the ground and some were even 60 meters high connected to each other by stairs leading up & down the trees. The people that occupied this village believed that village to be the safest place in the entire forest. They had gardens, food, activities, gossip, sports, etc.. They enjoyed their lives fully. However, far from this village, there was a group of people who didn’t think the village was what it seemed. Indeed, they were very far from it. There was approximately 6 people in this group. Nobody knows who they are. Nobody knows their names. If anybody were to know something, they would only know they were from the village. It is hard to distinguish between the 6 people. They were all similar in how they moved & thought. They moved as one. The only physical description one could perceive is that 2 of them were twins. In fact, these 2 twins seemed to smile frequently. The other 4 members perhaps were concerned about it or at least questioned it, but nobody said a word. This group moved throughout the thickness of the forest. They moved deeper, deeper, and deeper. They were equipped with swords. Eventually they came to a place where the trees covered up the sky completely. It was dark. Not because it was night. It was, in fact, still daytime. Though the trees made it night. Soon these distorted creatures emerged from the darkness. Emerged from the shadows. Some were big and some were tall. Some were fat and some were skinny. Though they were not human. In fact, they didn’t resemble any animal or creature on earth. The group drew their weapons and fought them. For the group it was easy. It was what they were expecting. It’s almost like they’ve done it before, but then again they really haven’t at all. They ended up winning this battle, but the group persevered forward. No serious injuries. Not even a word was said between them. They moved as one. They eventually came upon a giant cave. The rock looked very solid & sharp. There were no trees around it. Just the cave towering over the group. The group walked in front of it and waited. Soon a giant beast came out from the cave. The ground was shaking. The beast had a crown with multiple jewels & crystals on it. The crown was made of gold. The beast wasn’t threatened by the group. Not much is known about the battle that took place after. It could have been long. It could have been short. A member of the group could have died or all of them were alive. All that is known is that they won. The beast could be alive or it could not be. Nevertheless, the group returned home. At least, one of them did. The others might have. They might have not.

As the lone group member entered the village. He saw something frightening. He saw shadow figures whispering in the ears of the villagers. In houses, on balconies, on the steps, on the ground, etc.. All of the shadow creatures were whispering into a person’s ear. They were pitch black in appearance. Some were short & some were tall. The people didn’t notice them at all. They were too busy communicating amongst themselves & interacting with the village. The lone member saw them however. He watched in amazement as he slowly walked to his house. He then noticed something quite strange. He noticed one of the shadow creatures morph into a villager. It appeared to be human but was not. It would then start talking to one of the villagers. Very charming, persuasive, and happy it was. The lone member noticed that any of the villagers could, in fact, be one. (The lone member then thought of the twins in his group. Nobody knows what he thought though.) The lone member noticed he was being followed by one of these shadow creatures (not in human form). However he ignored it & managed to lose it. Soon he came to his house where he was greeted by a woman at the front door. Dark brown hair with tan skin. She looked worried. She looked depressed. She looked as if she lost meaning & hope. The lone member proceeded to walk in his house. He conversed with the woman. Nobody knows what they conversed about. Perhaps they were talking about simple things. Perhaps they were talking about important things. Nobody knows.

After his long interaction with the woman, the lone member walks around his house. He then sees a window. His house was rather high up. He had to take a flight of stairs up a tree to get to it. He walked towards the window. He looked out the window then looked down at the ground. Standing there, watching the shadow creatures doing their evil works, was a man. A man that was pitch black just like the shadow creatures. The man was observing them. Almost as if he was waiting for them to finish. Then the strange man looked up at the lone member through the window. The lone member looked down at the man. The man had no eyes. No face. Just 2 legs and 2 arms. However, in that moment, they locked eyes. Maybe not the eyes of the physical body. Perhaps the eyes of the soul. Nobody knows how long the stare lasted. How long either of them kept their gaze. Whatever happened after that nobody knows.

The dream ended. Keep in mind I had this dream long before I even knew anything about Revelations & the Tribulation. That lone member was actually me in the dream. I wrote it down in a 3rd person perspective so I can grasp the dream better as a whole. I typed on here what I wrote down word for word. I've had other dreams that are similar as well. I have just recently have almost become addicted with seeking God & studying His word. I've dropped everything I was doing. Last year I was going through a very difficult, dark time & even doubted the existence of God. In the shower, in the split of a second, I just snapped out of it & felt the Holy Spirit. I immediately got out & started reading the Bible. My parents were about to abort me if they hadn't have seen me "praying" (head bowed with praying hands) in the womb through an ultrasound. God has shown me a lot regarding my purpose. I believe I "snapped out of it" because the end is near & God made sure I was found.

What do you think?

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on August 11, 2019:

Hi Dana,

Thank you for your kind comment and for reading it. I know it's quite long and I have taken all my other articles as excerpts from that article, so that did make it considerably shorter than the original.

I knew when I first posted on Hubpages I would attract criticism but I was prepared for and accept that - so many different views.

I didn't know about the 'read out loud' function - I will try it so thank you for that too.

I'm quite sure you will get so much from ichthys - if only more would see it.

Again and as always Dana, my very best regards,


Dana Tate from LOS ANGELES on August 11, 2019:

Interesting hub and I enjoyed it very much. I also read all the comments and see it caused quite a debate . It may have been long but like you said it doesn't have to be digested in one sitting. As a matter of fact I click the "read out loud" on my computer so I can close my eyes and listen. I do this with all the articles I read that's packed with a lot of information.

I'm still reading the website you suggested. I appreciate you turning me on to that and will gladly share it with those interested. When I'm done I'll let you know.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on July 03, 2018:

Hi David and Tony,

Firstly to Tony, nice to see you're still around - even in the background!

I still look to see what you have to say elsewhere and I hope the friendship/fellowship will remain even if only silently.

David, firstly I mean no disrespect in my answer and I thank you so much for reading my post to the end - I know it's long and I will apologise for that but there's not much I can do about that now. As far as being too long to digest, I don't agree with that, no-one is forced to read and digest it in one sitting, you can always come back to it and in most things I've tried to fully explain to the best of my ability rather than leaving certain things unexplained or poorly so. If you feel some things were 'disjointed' and underdeveloped, please tell me where and I will endeavour to correct it.

I did read the 4 posts that you mentioned as well as others but I didn't find anything of serious value that would convince me to change my stance on the post-trib view - even common language, much less little scripture, to back up your view of the catching away. I don't know how you come to the view of it happening 7 years prior to the beginning of Tribulation? Have I misread what you say on that - if so my apologies again. But if not you may have cause to re-think your views as the day is fast approaching, the signs will be evident to prove otherwise.

Yes many are already falling away but the greatest falling away is in the second half of Tribulation simply because of the pressures caused by the mark, disallowing those without it to buy and sell anything, which will be too much to bear for many not being spiritually prepared.

On persecution and judgement - I certainly agree they are two different things, persecution comes from Satan in the anti-Christ's body, Judgement comes for Jesus. Please show me where you think I've said different and I will gladly rectify it. Just one thing further, persecution will come to the believers, judgement (in the sense of the word) comes to unbelievers, now if all believers are whisked away at the time you mention, (even just before the commencement) how can believers suffer it - according to your theory believers won't be here. So all believers will suffer persecution and WILL go through Tribulation to the very END. Did nothing in those pages on the Tribulation resonate with you?

Does the beautiful prayer that Jesus prayed to God in John 17, particularly verse 15, not speak to you on that very issue?

As far as calling those who hold to a different view that I do a liar, that isn't the case I never called anyone a liar - I said anyone who teaches that view, IT is the lie. It would only be a turn-off to those with that view and shouldn't be so to those without any view at all. On the very first page of the article I make mention that I'm not an authority on scripture and that they should do their own investigations as to what I've said from scripture and not just accepting what I have to say.

I will add, these are my views and I make no apology for that and I think that my view is the safest option - if it happens as I suggest I hope I can be spiritually prepared for it, unfortunately those with an alternative view won't be prepared - we won't be here. If it goes the other way then I haven't lost anything.

I agree, NO-ONE is the last word on it much less me.

I won't add any more in response to your comment as this will get too long as well but suffice to say I take note of them.

And I will continue to read other articles of yours - I hope I'm not too old at 74 to learn other things.

Best regards David,


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on July 03, 2018:

David Campbell - Understood, but most of of your bullet points are conclusions that Scofiled came to.

Take care

David Campbell from Winlock, Washington on July 03, 2018:

Tony Muse - I don't consider myself a Dispensationalist or a Calvinist, it just happens that what I have gleaned from my own studies over the years without the help of modern commentaries, is that I consider myself a Biblicist. It just happens that my conclusions seem to be very close to others' conclusions. Be that as it may, I will hopefully keep learning and honing my beliefs until I get to sit at the feet of the Master.

Likewise - Peace my friend.

Tony Muse from Texas, USA on July 03, 2018:

David Campbell - Spoken like a true Dispensationalist.

Peace, Brother.

David Campbell from Winlock, Washington on July 03, 2018:

Jack, here are some comments, some suggestions and an answer to your latest question.

• Your blog is a way too long for anyone to truly digest everything you are trying to convey. It came across as being disjointed at times – some themes very detailed and others under-developed.

• You cannot compare persecution to judgment. From Abel to the Coptic Christians in Egypt, persecution has been and is being displayed from the mundane insults to violent deaths. The hatred of God will be a permanent fixture of man’s rebellion against God right up to the Great White Throne judgment.

• Noah was safely hidden as the “world” was judged as was Lot removed prior to Sodom’s complete judgment.

• As I write this, there are people plotting how they can destroy Israel and all those horrible Christians that stand in the way of their full enjoyment of their sin.

• I would be very careful about calling anyone who does not believe exactly as you believe, a liar; that is how most people would take your comment about finding out that the pre-trib. is a LIE. 1) It probably is an immediate turn-off to a lot of potential readers, 2) It makes you look like you are end-all for all things spiritual, 3) NO-ONE is the last word on any subject.

• The more I read your article, weighed the scriptures and your argument, I am still convinced that the rapture is a real pre-70th week event.

• Just a note: the term Great Tribulation is applied to last 3 ½ years and this is where you get the Mid-70th weekers. I wonder what they would call the first 3 ½ years: sounds like hell on earth to me.

• Daniel 9:27 – the 70th week is for the JEWS only, the Church (Bride) is a parenthesis in history per Romans 11.

• I agree with Ezekiel 38 & 39 being pre-70th, coupled with Zechariah 13 shows that ALL Israel one day in the very near future will believe.

• The 144,000 are Israel’s witnesses to the world for the 1st 3 ½ years and the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11 (who are not men) are God’s witnesses for the last 3 ½ years. The 144,000 do not answer to angels but to God alone.

• Revelation 12: the chapter necessary to understand the relationship of Revelation to the Old Testament.

• I want to thank you for giving the inspiration for my next Hubpage: Revelation 12.

• Everyone has a different relationship to our Lord during the millennium: the Bride rules and reigns with Christ; the 144,000 follow Jesus wherever He goes (His entourage); the Martyrs serve the New Jerusalem and Israel serves as the spiritual center on the New Earth. Our God is incredibly organized. What eternity holds: God alone know.

• The Martyrs are the SEED of the woman (Israel), the Bride is NOT.

One thing to remember: the Word is written to be read AND understood by believers only. Even for believers, the Word takes great study and constant cross referencing to glean the Truth and no one this side of heaven will ever get it 100%. So often as I read, I will come across a passage that I am so positive about and a new Truth, not different, but deeper than I believed before shall amaze my soul. Conversely, the unbeliever will find his heart being hardened by what he picks and chooses to understand, because it will mostly be in error.

So much to say but after 102 articles, I still have more coming; but I hope this at least gives you some food for thought.

Answer to your last question: I believe that we are so very close to the end, I may live to experience the rapture. The Middle-east is aligning itself to destroy Israel and it matches the description of the forces of Gog & Magog of Ezekiel 38. The great falling away is upon us and the earth is truly in a shake, rattle and roll condition. Much success in your personal study and never be too old to learn something new.

In Christ, David

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on June 21, 2018:

Hi Michael Fisher58,

Thank you for taking the time to read the whole of this hub, I know it is long but because of the information in it, if people wanted to email it to others in one composition they could do so and if you read all of it then I'm happy.

I agree - they are important (not to salvation but for edification) and your comment on 1) I don't know that it is as you put it - you could be right I don't know and I can't see any words to your reasoning in the Bible but wouldn't jealousy encompass what you've said?

2) God certainly always knew how Satan would rebel - because he was jealous of God and wanted the same worship but never had the power to deliver.

And of course, a lot happened in between that point and the final outcome.

Again thank you for reading.



Michael Fisher58 on June 21, 2018:

Jack, just two small points - but I think important ones.

I believe your fourth-last paragraph gives the impressions that

1) Satan's rebellion was the result of jealousy AFTER seeing humankind's bodies and favourable treatment from God; WHEREAS, I believe that Satan rebelled AND subsequently promised and tried to create physical bodies to entice favourable treatment (worship as god) from angelic kind way BEFORE humankind were created.

2) God REACTED to Satan's rebellion: "This placed God in a position of what to do to save mankind", WHEREAS, God, through His foreknowledge, created both angels and mankind in the appropriate numbers/styles (heart) and after accepting the cost (Jesus on the cross) to result in perfect eternal fellowship of all three: God, Human-kind and Angelic-kind in the New Jerusalem.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 28, 2018:

Hi Elijah,

I can only reiterate what I've already said - that our views are divergent and I can't see them converging - I can only say, we shall see.


Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on April 28, 2018:

Hi Jack,

Moses and Elijah have completed their earthly tasks, they do not return. There is to be another Elijah (Malachi 4:5-6) who will cause the "virgins" to find God within themselves (turn the hearts of the children to the fathers) so they will survive civilization's end. He is Moses' hand returned to color, the second stone he smote twice (his "new birth" is a metamorphosis first) killing him to the world then he fulfills Rev. 5:12 & Mat. 12:39-40's 72 hour buried "Out of Body Experience" after entering the White House.

As soon as Elijah and the Virgins enter Armageddon Mystery Babylon is destroyed ushering in the Great Tribulation Rev 16:14 calls That Battle Of The Great Day Of God Almighty and end the world. Then the reincarnation of Rev 6:9-11's dead in Christ happens for 1000 yeas before everyone else does to replenish the earth but none will be in the body they discarnated out of.

The 10 virgins are ACTUALLY believes who will have a testimony of a spiritual conception, gestation, trivial and birth for the foolish, the other half will have reached spiritual maturity. The foolish will say "god will give me the ability to live ecologically when the time comes" but the wise will have practiced living it, that is the difference as I see it. It will take10% because after the first millennium they reproduce the entire 100% of world population since a 10% made of new life-forces become man which it would take the 10% to do it in 6000 years before Revelation 21 begins and they all have to be raptured one at a time (Mat. 20:1-16) before chapter 21 begins.

During the "born again" dialog Jesus said the Spirit of the scriptures can not be discerned without being born again and they must become nomads (V. 8) which the foolish virgins will not do in time to enter Armageddon. That is what spirit has shown me.



Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 27, 2018:

Hi Elijah,

I have noticed that you use the word reincarnation a few times. Are you meaning that to be those resurrected at Christ's return, or resuscitated, as are Moses and Elijah in the first half of Tribulation?

Just on the 5 wise and the 5 foolish, this is my take on that. Across the spectrum of believers there are many who have a very good grounding in their faith, holding fast to their belief and doing the things that are expected of them, the 5 wise (not of 'works') and there are those professing they belong to Christ but are just lukewarm, which is spiritual paralysis and loose standards, the 5 foolish. And this is 50% of all believers, (not the general populace) and we know the outcome of this parable, which is a sad but truthful lesson to all believers in this Laodicean era that we find ourselves in.

So many today are relaxed in their attitude towards salvation.

Those who believe since time began, all have differing views on salvation simply because of the way we perceive things, which has led to many disputes, even wars and is probably why Paul said in part in Philippians 2: 12 to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Without the Spirit in our lives to help us understand, the Bible is a very difficult book to understand, even for some. A wonderful thing happens when we first believe, the Spirit is bestowed upon us as we are told and he will help us in all things - leading, teaching and even correction but in most cases many don't realise his presence at first until we have grown a little with his help, then you can be sure he will reveal himself and the best thing about that, he will never lie to you.

I hope you will forgive me for not commenting further about your response as I don't want to get into debate about how we see things but I am happy you are continuing to read, apologies for it's length, I don't think there's anything I can do about that now - if and when you get to the end I will be happy to respond to any comment you might make.



Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on April 27, 2018:

You are correct, Jack, II Peter said it very well. Until we see so many thing Christians do not believe in, such as reincarnation, good/evil and the other judgmental adjectives have nothing concrete to justify them, they are each individual's preference. Since Isaiah 45:7 indicates all things is god's doing through us it also mean the deception of most man is purposed. With Jesus saying only 5 of 10 (% of the end's population) virgins are to survive with the "son of man" it has to mean reincarnation is real.

We must also remember Jesus said "you must be born again" to comprehend spiritual thing, I am. My conception happened in the September-October corridor of 1973 and told god "I am going to consider everything I know to be in error and want you to teach me", I gestated until late '75 when I began to trivial to be born August 6, 1976 by walking away from my job and 3 weeks later my wife to become a nomad. Because of what I'm taught I am only concerning myself with the 10 virgins, everyone else is destined for a future time.

I think you mention the discarnated in Rev. 6:9-11, the 5 foolish virgins who didn't make it in during last termination of this civilization as Rev. 14:13 explains about the virgins from this ending. They reincarnate during the first 1000 yeas after the tribulation Rev. 16:14 calls the "Battle Of That Great Day Of god Almighty" while the wise virgins are protected in Armageddon. If we focus on reaching the 10 virgins we can leave off being concerned about what is going to happen to anyone except us virgins.

In reading your post - I'm still reading it, it is quite long - I am inclined to agree the 7th WEEK is the last 7 years after Isaiah 2:2-4's world peace but your Rev 13 I don't. Patmos is near the eastern shore of the Med. See so John was looking west where we find the Americas with 7 major (heads), 10 war-torn (horns) and 10 passive and content (crowns) nations. The headmost is sly and cunning (leopard's body), strong military (Bear's feet) and self exalting (lion's mouth) the dragon (love of money collective consciousness) gives him his authority and power. The headmost nation (U.S. civil war) and it's leader (Ronald=6 Wilson=6 Reagan=6 letters each) was wounded and both survived. The 42 months are presidents times of completing their service with the 22nd and 24th being Adams and Williams Henry Harrison discarnated 31 days after his oath without doing any service makes Trump the 43 who has to be outed with the "son of man" replacing him to bring the world peace before the finial week begins.

That is for anyone who is destine to become one of the virgins, those who are not interested, let them be, their day will come.


Elijah NatureBoy

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 26, 2018:

Hi Elijah,

Thank you for your thoughts and the time given in responses to mine and to others as well. The story of creation and re-creation is a very interesting one but not many agree with the re-creation (the Genesis gap) theory that God Himself tells us in Genesis 1: 1 & 2, which is veiled (as some other passages are) and is hidden to most readers understanding but I believe if one looks closely and with the help of the Spirit it is clear enough. The fact that Peter (definitely led by the Spirit and probably more so than you or I or anyone else) speaks about this very subject in his epistles, 2nd Peter 3: 5 - 7. And he does it perfectly.

Even though it doesn't have any bearing on our salvation the information is given for the wise to understand and in saying that, I don't profess to be wise at all.

Having different or divergent ideas doesn't make me better than you or you better than I - in the end it all comes down to faith and this is really the crux of the matter, as long as we believe in Jesus, that He died to win our salvation and never lose sight of that belief we are saved. It is only the unbeliever who isn't saved. And that is a choice all are free to make one way or the other.

All believers are saved regardless of sins, (and repented of) unbelievers are not saved regardless of good conduct. Can't put it any simpler than that.



Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on April 26, 2018:

Morning Jack, yes, our ideas are divergent but I believe if you approach what I've written prayerfully, like I do yours, I believe we will actually become as one mind.

My findings is, without understanding the beginning, seeing the cycle to man on earth and the time the Bible suggests reincarnation without saying the word we can't have any idea about what happens during the end of civilization. Because Genesis 1:1-8 should not be accepted literally, for instance, the first verse reads "in the beginning" but the original hebrew word that was translated has the meaning of "in beginning" suggesting they ar beginning a narrative at this point which will return to the same place. When you see "the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light" and realize "waters" ending with "S" means people (see Rev. 17:15), by producing light without a source means "enlightened and unenlightened" respectfully, dividing the light from dark we would call "the righteous from unrighteous", creating the firmament in the midst of the water with the firmament being called heaven suggests a rapture at the close of Rev. 21's evening civilization (see Gen. 1:14).

Then follow the creation all the way to man and we find it was late in the 6th day that man were told to replenish the earth - the opposite of Rev. 20:4-5 - which, according to Gen. 1:14, makes the 7 days of creation to be the the transition between evenings (nights) and mornings. That would mean Adam to the flood is symbolic of the sunrise of civilization when it spreads all over the earth. If you look at it from that perspective it is possible that you see Moses - who has a prophet like him, Duet. 18:15-18 - bringing Israel out of Egypt will have a prophet to lead Spiritual Israel (meaning endurer) out of their enslavement to man, money and goods through an ecological way of living before another civilization is formed in Rev. 21.

With that vision of earth;s cycle, Moses didn't enter the new civilization (Canaan) represent the rapture with Jesus as the paymaster (John 14:1-3) he spoke about in Matthew 20:1-16 who calls each person individually to their mansion as replenishing the earth nears it completion 6000 years later. More details are written in my hubs "The Prophet Like Unto Moses" and "Revelation Chapter Twelve" on my page.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 25, 2018:

Hi Tony,

Agree with you about Hubs I can see how doing what you suggest is of a benefit - It's just that when I first posted my Hub 10 months or so ago I should have asked my son, who understands computers more than I do, what to do and perhaps I should still ask him, he may have an idea. Of course I have edited my original posting extensively and many times, which is why it is so long now. However if I can't change it I'll have to leave it as is.

Another admission Tony, when I first posted it my son, who isn't that conversant with the KJV renderings, he said I should change it to 'a more understandable wording' which is why I wrote it from the Living Bible. As mentioned I rarely use that Bible, I normally use the KJV and perhaps I should have used those verses.

So in answer to your question "is it your own paraphrase," - it isn't but in the text under the diagram they are my words as an explanation of those verses and I have made a slight change to that for easier understanding.

Looking at it now I can agree that verse can be misleading saying that it is 490 years of punishment and thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will take a closer look at and modify as necessary.

It's been some time since reading Malachi but I will revisit it in light of your comment.



Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 25, 2018:

Jack - My first couple of Hubs I placed most if not all of my Hubs in one section simply because I mostly copied and pasted from a Word document. Then I saw the value of using their sections to break things up. In a few cases I have even taken advantage of this feature to rearrange sections after re-reading my content from a fresh perspective. It's tough being your own author and editor! LOL

In reading a segment of your Hub, you wrote:

"verse 24: The Lord has commanded 490 years of punishment upon Jerusalem and your people. Then at last they will learn to stay away from sin, and their guilt will be cleansed; then the kingdom of everlasting righteousness will begin, and the most holy place will be rededicated, as the prophets have declared."

I am assuming that this is your own paraphrase, am I right? What caught my attention was that it says "490 years of punishment". I'm not sure that would say that it was all punishment, but that the span of 483 years included their restoration to the land after exile, their rebuilding the city and temple and the resumption as a nation until 70 AD. Now, I would definitely classify 70 AD as punishment, the day of God's vengeance. I guess that if I were to paraphrase what you have there, I might say "490 years of probation", if that makes sense.

They call the time period between Malachi and the gospels "the silent years" as there doesn't seem to be any specific word or vision from God during this time. I think that is why Gabriel told Daniel that this period was a time for his people to "seal up vision and prophecy". But, that is my perspective. Your thoughts?

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 25, 2018:

Hi Tony and Bill and Elijah,

No apology necessary Tony but thank you anyway. I'm also probably more direct than what I admit to as well.

So glad 'the middle wall of partition is broken down.'

I shall acknowledge Bill's response here as well and thank you both for your advice re splitting it up - I understand that as well and I should explain that it may not be possible now because of how I first posted it.

And this is digressing from the topic at hand but I am grateful for both of your suggestions. The way I did it firstly was writing it on 'Word' then copying and pasting it on hubpages.

Unfortunately I didn't allow any spaces at appropriate places in the text and it is now as 'one block of text' and I don't know if it can be done as you both suggest - I have tried to do that but so far it won't allow me to insert a text capsule into an already 'done' text capsule and I would if I knew how.

I suppose I have resigned myself that those interested in the subject can always come back to it - as it doesn't have to be read all at once, even any book is usually read a little at a time.

Answering one of your questions Tony, the hub is featured and nothing has ever been said about its length.

I also liked what you said in your closing paragraph.

As mentioned I am certainly post-trib and I give scriptural reasons for that and I would sincerely hope that both of you would allow yourselves time to read the END OF DAYS through to the end - particularly you Bill (and I mean no offence) as I know you hold to a pre-trib view - I don't yet know Tony's stance on this.

I would only say that if it IS pre-trib, (literally) I will have to say 'thanks to God' for not putting me through it but it only leads to a false sense of security - resulting in a serious lack of 'a preparedness of mind' that somehow it isn't really dangerous because 'we won't be here.'

This is the very question the disciples asked Jesus - wouldn't you think if it were before, Jesus would have said so?

"You cannot read Matthew 24 without concluding that Jesus placed the 'catching away' immediately after Tribulation of those days. For those who believe in a rapture that comes before Tribulation, they should look again at the scriptures that contain the word Tribulation. The O.T. uses it 3 times, the N.T., 19 times. If the rapture comes before Tribulation, shouldn't one of those 22 passages teach us something about the rapture happening before Tribulation? But in all the 22 instances, there isn't one verse which says the rapture happens before Tribulation. There is however, very clear verses that say it happens after the Tribulation - Matthew 24: 29 & 30."

To Elijah, thank you for your comment and continuing with the article, I hope it is of benefit to you. I must say though our ideas at present are divergent and not entirely parallel - hope that can change.

Best regards to all,


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 25, 2018:

William - Yes, I understand Jack's reasoning, sometimes you just want to get the whole message or story in one place. I actually strive for traffic from internet search engines rather than from within HubPages or its vertical sites, so I "think" that having various, hopefully unique and even catchy titles, will give you more traffic in the end. But, I could be wrong! :-)

Like most readers, I am looking for reads of 5-15 minutes to pass a little time. Unlike a book where you can leave a bookmark, long stories on websites can be easy to neglect to finish, especially when you have to find your place again. But, like Jack said, you can always copy and paste it locally to your computer.


William Kovacic from Pleasant Gap, PA on April 25, 2018:

Tony, I like your idea about a series of hubs. I understand Jack's purpose for including the whole as one hub, but I think it would be better broken up into installments.

At least, for me personally, I know I'd never have time to read it as a whole. I write fiction and non-fiction and have run up series of more than 30 installments. I place the link to the last chapter at the beginning and the link to the next chapter at the end. if someone wants to continue reading, all they have to do is click the link. I also include an excerpt from the last chapter to tie it to the present chapter. I know my followers would never read the whole book if I put it up as one hub. That just seems to be how it works on HP. But again I understand why Jack does it that way. just my two cents.

Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 25, 2018:


I also apologize if I seemed abrasive, it wasn't my intent but I can see how you may have taken me that way. I guess that I have gotten to the point to where I am more direct and that can be taken wrong.

I have Hubs, or series of Hubs that I have under consideration to write. What I intend to do is write them up as drafts, wait until they are finished, then include links to each related Hub within each Hub. That way, if someone is only interested in a portion of the series, then they won't have to wade through the main body of work. Not only that, but I "think" that having multiple Hubs might actually generate more external hits.

I am curious, did the HubPages editors feature this article and/or move it to a vertical site? I wonder if they disqualify Hubs that are lengthy.

I suppose that I might have assumed that you either adhere to or are at least influenced by Dispensational teachings because it is, in my experience, the Dispensational crowd that promotes that there is a "prophetic gap" in Daniel 9:24-27. They are also the most vocal about the need for a third temple in Jerusalem, the establishment of the State of Israel, etc. Perhaps I jumped to conclusions.

I said a "strange mix" because Dispensationalists are strong adherents to the pre-tribulation rapture.

What do I believe in? I'm not sure that you can put a label on it. If there were a long list of major doctrinal groups I would probably end up checking the "none of the above" box. I do my very best to understand the timing, audience and context of passage and formulate my understanding based on that. I do believe that, as Jesus put it, that the law, psalms and prophets were to be preached until John. Does that make them necessarily null and void? No, but I do believe that with the exception of references to sin being eradicated someday and the promise of the resurrection, that most all prophecies in the Old Testament saw their fulfillment in Christ and in 70 AD. At the same time, I do not call myself a Preterist because I do not buy into some of their arguments.

In regards to Daniel 11, if you have the time, look up a guy on YouTube named Bruce Gore and watch his videos:

25. The Hellenistic Age: Alexander to Antiochus III and

26. Antiochus Epiphanes and the Maccabees.

The events described in Daniel 11 were quite literal and fascinating. We simply don't take enough time to look at history to see how accurate the the word of God truly is.


Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on April 25, 2018:

Jack & Tony,

I believe if you prayerfully ask for guidance in interpreting the various scriptures you will be directed to reread Moses' being called directly by spirit to become ITS messenger to Khemet (Egypt}. Since Deut 18:15-18 says twice there will be a prophet like Moses and Revelation 11:8 reads "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified" the second messiah shall, like Moses, be the leader of man-en-mass out of that "place of bondage" (Egypt's meaning) and through the "Red Sea" of blood the Battle of That Great Day of God Almighty will cause everyone not in Armageddon (Mat. 25:1-13) to shed (Rev. 16: 14-16).

Then, during the 7 millennium wilderness trek they will give birth to the Dead In Christ for the first one before together they give birth to the "rest of the dead" for another 6000 years for Rev 21's spiritual civilization. While ending the earth's replenishing Jesus will call by name the last until reaching the first (Mat.20:1-16) who becomes the Alpha and Omega who setting the new civilization in motion.

Look at John 14:1-3 and see if that doesn't say that. Look at Revelation 1:1 saying nothing seen in the book has happened prior to its being written and then at 4:1 and see how the church has to become Mega-materialistic Laodicean in nature. We need to see the whole picture as "seasons, days and years" cycles as a sign of man's plight on earth (Gen. 1:14).

You may NOT want to agree but I believe if you read only those concepts as written in the Bible I think you will agree. If not, be at peace, I have provided what my having a testimony of a "spiritual conception, gestation, trivial, birth and now over 42 years born who have reached adolescence" has taught me the book is about.

I copied your entire post and is reading it offline, I use my lap top in a library until the battery runs low so once I get through reading it I will contact you again unless I see a new posting here first.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 24, 2018:

Hi Tony,

Thank you for your forgiveness - we all need that.

I am the first to admit that it is extremely long and my reason for that is mainly because of 2 reasons - keeping it all together in one composition or collation means you don't have to go looking for subsequent hubs if it was broken down into 4 or 5 hubs. And,

It doesn't have to be read in one sitting, you can even save it on your computer and easily return at any time - 20 minutes or so is long enough to hold ones attention in most things and I understand that.

I am certainly a believer of the post-tribulation view and I don't know your views on that because you haven't told me as yet - you mention 'an unusual mix of a post-tribulation Dispensationalist' - could you expand on that for me?

Shall we wait until (hopefully) you read all of the document - it doesn't matter how long you take and if you would like to comment then, I would appreciate that.

Best regards Tony,


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 24, 2018:


Yes, I'm sure that we could be friends, no issues with that. After all, we have more in common with our faith in Christ that our differences in exegesis should be such an insurmountable obstacle.

I read through a little more of your article (even you must admit that it is extremely long) and you seem to be an unusual mix of a post-tribulation Dispensationalist, is that correct?

I'm going to attempt avoid going into details concerning my thoughts on your conclusions as that has not led to constructive dialogue in the past. :-)

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 24, 2018:

Hi Elijah and Tony,

Elijah I'm happy to receive your comments but I don't believe in your thoughts of there being two Messiahs at all - scripture is plain there is only one. He came, He taught, He suffered all for you and I and He died for you and I and He is coming again and is the same Jesus. That's almost like saying there is life out there on another planet - Would God send Jesus there as well to do the same things?

I would suggest you re-think that.

Tony I am glad you are still around and even though I have not allowed two of your replies, sincerely I mean you no ill will - I just didn't feel it productive to others in seeing dissension in these pages but I agree it does happen. I would like to apologise if I have caused any angst between us. I'm quite sure if we lived in the same street, so to speak, we could become good friends. At last, by your post we can agree on some things even if not all. Can I ask you to read through the END OF DAYS to the end as there are things there that I'm sure you will agree with - just when you get time - please. If you would read it through I would be happy for your comment, be it critical or otherwise.

Best regards to you both,


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 24, 2018:

Elijah - I must confess that I had never heard of the "two Messiah" concept. From what little I have researched, this theory seems to have its roots in ancient Rabbinical teachings, it taught that one Messiah was to suffer, while the other was to conquer. Might I suggest that Jesus Christ fulfilled both of those roles?

Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on April 24, 2018:

Tony, I recognize Hosea 6 as talking about the second messiah. It appears that few people recognize how beginning in Exodus 4:6-8 is the prediction of two messengers or messiahs, the 2 stones smitten by Moses in the wilderness (the early sowing rains and the latter harvest rains) and Jesse's Rod from his stem and Branch from his roots (Isa. 11:1) are very clearly 2 different people. The transfiguration (Mat. 17:1-13) shows us who the three are with verse 12 saying the latter one, Elijah, will be the restorer of ecological living as those pre-Adam man were.

However, Jack's saying the temple is supposed to be built in historical Israel's homeland doesn't appear to agree with scripture. Primarily because historical Israel preformed their last spiritual duty when they became a nation in 1948, the temple to be built is for the spiritual chosen and called Armageddon in Revelation 16:16 because they will have kept their garment (completely surrendered to god) who are the 5 (%of end time population) of the 10 virgins.

Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 24, 2018:

Or... Hosea 6 is another veiled reference to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, in which we have our hope.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

Hosea is a book that tells of Israel's unfaithfulness which made null the old covenant, and bringing them back into covenant with God through the new covenant in which believing Gentiles were also brought in and share in the commonwealth.

Hosea 2:“In that day I will also make a covenant for them

With the beasts of the field,

The birds of the sky

And the creeping things of the ground.

And I will abolish the bow, the sword and war from the land,

And will make them lie down in safety.

The beasts unclean mentioned in this passage were fulfilled in the vision given to Peter on Cornelius' rooftop.

Acts 10:12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.

This of course had nothing to with actual food, but in the way the Jewish believers viewed Gentiles.

Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on April 24, 2018:

Morning Jack,

The cursing of the fig tree and cursing Jerusalem bearing his cross in telling the girls to weep for their children and children's children together makes the parable. In cursing the tree he said "no man shall eat from you forever" which means the second messiah comes not from restored Israel. According to Gen. 49:1 & 8-12 and Micah 5:2 - a town called Bethlehem was not founded until about 100 AD - say the end time praised (Judah's definition) and ruling nation is where he is to come from. In 1948 until now it has been the USA while Isaiah 11:10-12 indicates the Root messiah - Jesus was the Rod - may be born just before Israel returned in 1948 because of being said before announcing the restoration.

My hubs, "The Christ We Seek", "Revelation Chapter Twelve" and "The Prophet Like Unto Moses," all explains those things and others quite vividly, you might want to check then out. Meanwhile, I'll read some more of this.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 23, 2018:

Hi Elijah,

Thank you for reading my article to whatever point and I hope that you will continue to the end when you have time.

As you know there are 2 fig tree parables and the one you are speaking of, to my mind that parable is describing how Jesus searched it for any fruit and finding none, He cursed it. Upon the evening when He was returning, his disciples noticed how it had severely withered. This was a lesson for the disciples about the hardness of the Jews who weren't and still aren't producing fruit for the Lord and clearly shows the state of Israel then and now.

The other fig tree parable, concerns the resettlement of Israel in 1948 and Psalm 90: 10 does speak about the 70 or 80 years of human lifetime and has a difference of 10 years, which could by your calculations (as well as mine) could place His return either in 2018 or 2028 and cannot yet be ruled out. However, scripture gives us a more definitive answer and narrows it down to a particular year and is more accurate. Hosea 6: 2 & 3 says; After 2 days He will revive us: in the 3rd day He will raise us up in His sight and we shall live in His sight. The 2 days relates to 2 millennial days and is the 2000 years after the death of Jesus, (which is the 6th day of the timeline of human history [church age] and is almost finished) the 3rd day is the 1000 years of the millennium.

This is the period of grace, given to all, between the 69th and 70 week where the prophetic clock was stopped to allow more to enter God's family. Knowing that Jesus was killed in 33 AD and adding the known 'church age' (2000 years) which includes Tribulation and comes to 2033, then subtracting the 7 years of Tribulation, we arrive at 2026 for the beginning of Tribulation. So we are pretty much agreeable on that score.

I'll leave it there as don't completely understand what you mention about Daniel 2 & 4.

Best regards,


Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on April 23, 2018:

Jack you said,

"The actual day of the beginning of Tribulation is not known" is written but a timetables given with "the parable of the fig tree" which began when Jesus cursed the fig tree on his way into Jerusalem one morning and it was withered by evening. That was followed by telling the girls as he ascend with the cross "weep not for me but for your children and children's children" and about 40 years later Jerusalem was destroyed. That was the parable.

In 1948 Israel became a corporate state budded the fig tree (Isa. 11:10-12) with the Branch from Jesse's roots being born about that time since Jesus was the Rod from his stem. Psalms 90:10 suggests 80 years maximum with much pain and suffering (the tribulation) is the passing of a generation, thus, 2028 should be this civilization's ending.

Now to continue reading.

Daniel 9's 490 years (70 weeks) were to Jerusalem's restoration after Babylon captivity, it is not relative to the finial days of earth. Daniel 2's image and 4's tree represent these days. Notice the image's feet and Mystery Babylon's "many waters" represent the "seed of man" or all 4 primary ethnics of them. The rock that falls on the feet represent the second stone Moses smote for watering man and their animals, the second messiah who must first die to the world by his being "Bon Again" then enter SUDDENLY his temple (Mal. 3:1) to bring world peace (Isa. 2;2-4).

The tree reaching the sky in chapter 4 is today's "space station," the birds nesting in it and animals under it are the zoos, its extending to the ends of the earth is the material goods production and commerce while the tree's being cut down is civilization end.

I haven't read any further as my lap top's battery is getting low is why I answered as I read. I have hubs showing how the end is to come or you can send me a fantail and we can talk. I WILL BE RETURNING TO THIS at a later time so if you respond tooth's I will e coming back sooner than later.


Elijah NatureBoy

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 22, 2018:

To any and all who may read what I have posted in my hub, I would offer the following in the hope of serious consideration in view of previous comments posted by others.

There are many who read Daniel's 70 week prophecy, 9: 24 - 27 and see it as being literal, that is, it all takes place in only one point of time - and the verses are concurrent and not split by a 'prophetic gap.'

If there is NO gap between the 69th and 70th week, then every week of the entire 70 weeks has already taken place!

And that would have been by 40AD, i.e. 7 years after He was killed in 33AD. But Jesus has not yet returned! Doesn't that ask a question?

As we know, Matthew 24: 21 tells us we will all face Tribulation and Day-one begins when the anti-Christ brokers the covenant (peace deal) of 7 years between Israel and multiple nations. But the anti-Christ has not yet revealed himself.

And as present history shows that Tribulation has not yet begun, (or finished) no-one can say they have witnessed or heard any of the 21 judgements that will characterise Tribulation (amongst other things) because as yet they haven't happened.

Consider also the fact that there is a prophesied timeline of human history, 7000 years /7 days which is, Adam to Abraham - 2000 years, Abraham to Jesus - 2000 years, Jesus to now 2000 years, millennium to come.

So knowing this is prophesied there must be a prophetic gap between the 69th and 70th week that not many recognise.

This prophetic gap is the 2000 years we now find ourselves in after the death of Jesus, which is almost finished.

Hoping some will understand and best regards,


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 20, 2018:

Tony, I see now the problem you have, which is your refusal to believe, even though I've just tried to explain it, that we are living in a period of grace so abundantly given by God. Remember this prophecy was given to Daniel by the angel Gabriel and Daniel is recounting it. Daniel never knew of the anti-Christ as such and it appears you are unable to connect the dots. I don't know how you think Jesus was killed in the middle of he 70th week when the 70th week has not yet arrived.

You are so wrong Tony and I really thought a man of your intelligence would have understood what I tried to tell you and there's not much more I can say that will change your mind, which is your right. Debating it any further will prove nothing.

Lets leave it here shall we.


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 20, 2018:

Correct, it isn't Titus, but this prophecy has nothing to with with a future antichrist, temple or a seven year tribulation period. It only has to do with the rebuilding of the temple and Jerusalem, the finishing up of the old covenant sacrificial system, the arrival of the Messiah, His death, and the new covenant established by the Messiah.

Jack, Jesus wasn't killed at the end of the 69th week, but in the middle of the 70th week. It was at the end of the 69th week that Jesus was baptized and began His ministry and first came to Jerusalem. Jesus was with His disciples for 3-1/2 years and died in the midst of the 70th week. It was His death that ended sacrifice as an atonement for sin. Read verse 24, it is a summary of which verses 25 & 26 expound on. Jesus declared in Matt. 23 that it was left desolate.

There is no antichrist or future temple mentioned in this prophecy, only the rebuilding of the city and temple, the Messiahs and death, the ending of sacrifice, a firm (everlasting) covenant and the armies of Titus destroying the same temple that was built by the returning Jews. That is all that it talks about, yet a whole narrative has been created to fit a story that was never told.

The popular narrative is to say an antichrist will make a temporary peace treaty and then break it 3-1/2 years later? That is completely out of context to what is actually said.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 20, 2018:

I forgot to mention the 2000 years between verse 26 & 27.

This prophecy is in 3 parts - 7 + 62 + 1 = 70 but is split in 2 and we know that is so because that last week hasn't yet arrived, which if you consider what is already explained, it accounts for the prophetic gap and I think this is really what has you a little confused. If you can accept that Jesus was killed a little short of 2000 years ago and as Tribulation (the last week) hasn't arrived yet - the seventy week prophecy must be split in two with a prophetic gap.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 20, 2018:


Perhaps I should have included the whole of verse 27 for your understanding, so I will do so:

27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: (This is where the anti-Christ causes the signing of the peace treaty and is day one of tribulation) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Satan, in the anti-Christs body enters the temple and declares himself as God) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I'm very sorry Tony that you don't understand what is in front of you - firstly it isn't Titus, it was he who sacked Jerusalem, verse 26 tells us that. So he isn't part of verse 27.

It isn't the messiah, how could it be Jesus when He was cut off at the end of the 69th week?

Verse 27 is the last week of this prophecy - (7 + 62 +1 = 70) and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate......., this is clearly the anti-Christ who introduces the mark enforced by the false prophet in the middle of Tribulation........even until the consummation, which is referring to the end at which Jesus returns.

I cannot understand how you think the 'he' refers to Jesus or Titus.


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 20, 2018:

Correct, English was not the language of Daniel, but a person can not be discussed without being previously named, it is quite simple. The "he" that makes a firm covenant can only be either the Messiah or Titus. I will let you figure out who it was that made a covenant with many.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 20, 2018:


Let's look at the seventy weeks prophecy as a whole. (KJV)

24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people...........

25. .........from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and three score and two weeks:.......

26. And after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...........

Yes you are correct in saying He was cut off after 62 weeks - and I agree with that but in the context of a whole, He was killed AT the end of the 69 weeks, which included the seven weeks prior - 7 + 62 = 69.

The 'prince' who shall come and destroy the city is General Titus of the Roman army.

27. Forgetting the 'rules' in which a pronoun might be very well know English wasn't the language at that time - and I'm sure a man of your intellect would understand who it is that enters the temple in the beginning of the second half of Tribulation - and is none other than the anti-Christ.

I sincerely hope we can move on from this and bury the hatchet as I'm quite sure you have a strong faith in the one who will save us. I would also hope, if you get time, you would finish reading what I've posted.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 20, 2018:

Hi Jay C OBrien,

Thank you for your comment - happy that we can agree on some things if not everything.


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 20, 2018:

It doesn't say "at the end of the 69th week"... 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Who is the "he" in verse 27? Please keep in mind the rules in which a pronoun might be used.

Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on April 20, 2018:

"I needed to think very carefully about how to answer your last comment as it appears we are talking about two different forms of Tribulation."

Yes, you are correct. My God is inside me and you. Consider what "Scripture" is. My God is Good, Totally Good and always has been. We may differ in what we think God is like. See:

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 19, 2018:

Perhaps if you allow yourself a little time and read this post, which you haven't, you might find something you obviously don't yet know.

Scripture clearly tells us that Jesus WAS slain at the end of the 69th week, just short of 2000 years ago, why do you think that isn't so, have you seen Him yet?

The scales may fall off your eyes when you finally accept the truth. Not much more I can say Tony.

This isn't about 'fun' Tony - as you and so many others are soon to find out. I've tried my best to tell you but unfortunately, you are spiritually blind to a lot of things. This is as far as I am prepared to go with you.


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 19, 2018:

I haven't seen you post anything scriptural to support a gap theory, sorry. You are asserting that Christ was slain at the end of the 69th week, that isn't so. But, if adding people and events to prophecies are your thing, have fun.

Take care.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 19, 2018:

Quite simple Tony, you don't listen.

In the end of your second response you asked, "I have asked these same questions to many people who hold to the 'prophetic gap' theory, to this date, no-one has been willing to address them."

In your third response you asked me - "do I hold to the idea that we are in gap phase of the seventy week prophecy."

I answered both questions and gave reasons from scripture - what more do you want?


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on April 19, 2018:

Jack, why didn't you ever allow my last comment to you to be posted?

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 19, 2018:

Hi Jay C Obrien,

I needed to think very carefully about how to answer your last comment as it appears we are talking about two different forms of Tribulation. (I don't want to be critical of you lest I tear down your faith.) You are talking about tribulation that is totally and completely different from a scriptural perspective and your thinking is a mind perspective. Yes you are correct in one sense, that it can be a human condition brought about in one's mind and faced externally as well. And because of that thinking, it certainly can be now as well as later. And yes, I would hope that God is in my chest.

You mention 'learn the teachings of Jesus' - well this is my learning.

Daniel tells us about the scriptural Tribulation in 9: 24 - 27, I'm sure you are aware of those verses.

Matthew 24: 9 - 15 begins to tell us about it, continuing with verses 21 - 22, culminating in verses 29 - 31.

The Tribulation I'm talking about isn't brought about by any human failing, internally or externally - it will be brought about by one man, Satan, in the anti-Christs body and will be in an already determined length of time - 7 years of which, Jesus will return at the end of it. And I will just add, that time is not too distant, much closer than many think.

It is my hope that you will look at these verses again and consider them as you appear to be a follower of Jesus but I think you need to re-evaluate what scripture really says.



Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on April 19, 2018:

The Tribulation is within us, not external. It is now, not later. It is Us because God is within us. Jesus said go into your closet (They did not have closets but chests then) to pray (meet with God). God is within your chest. Learn the teachings of Jesus.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 18, 2018:

Hi Jay C OBrien,

Apologies Jay, but I am at a loss (again) to understand your logic in your last 2 paragraphs. It would appear that you are talking about a human condition of the mind, which is fine but in the context that you put it, it doesn't have any bearing on the Tribulation that is soon to come upon us and has nothing to do with what is coming.



Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on April 18, 2018:

Hi Bill,

Thank you for your input regarding splitting it into smaller hubs - I understand that. My reasons for making it as long as it is (and it isn't complete) are so that it's all in one volume, negating the need to find the rest - and that's only one.

I feel it's a shame you didn't read past the Fig Tree parable as you might have found valuable information that may have changed your thoughts on being a pre-tribber. However, we are all free to believe whatever we think is true. I will encourage you to look a little further in the hope that you might change your mind as really, if it doesn't happen as you hope, you won't be prepared for what is certainly coming.

Again Bill, thank you and best regards,


Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on April 18, 2018:

Tribulation: distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution.

Our days of tribulation occur when we meet ourselves and try to correct our negative thoughts or emotions. We should strive to Forgive and Accept others to remove the negative emotions.

When we condemn, judge, criticize or complain we create negative emotions within ourselves. We must make decisions in life, but not create negative emotions within ourselves.

William Kovacic from Pleasant Gap, PA on April 18, 2018:

Hi, Jack. I read down to the parable of the fig tree. Generally, I agree so far, but without reading the entire piece, I will say I'm pre-trib. I might suggest you break your longer articles down into separate installments. I've written many series on HP with as many as 30 or more parts. HP suggests an article of 1200-1500 words with pictures and videos to illustrate some points. I'm not trying to be critical. I just want to be a help.

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on March 23, 2018:

Hi Tony,

To answer your questions in reverse order - and I find it difficult to understand the thrust of your question "who was it that causes the sacrifice to cease" surely, a person with your understanding already knows the answer, it is the anti-Christ, or are you just 'playing with me?' If in fact you are just baiting me, this dialogue finishes here.

Yes I certainly do hold to the 'idea' (which is scriptural) that we are in a period of grace between the crucifixion of Jesus and His return at the END of Tribulation, which is the 'prophetic gap' - how else can it be? (There was a period of 7 days grace before God shut the door on the Ark and not one came in, This analogy is exactly the same today but has been extended by grace much more than 7 days.)

Knowing the 7000 year / 7 days prophecy, which is a timeline, i.e. 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, 2000 years from Abraham to Jesus, 2000 years from Jesus to now, (which includes tribulation) with the millennium of 1000 years to come.

The 70 weeks, 70 x 7 = 490 years is the total time of this prophecy and part of that time is in O.T. days, which begins when the temple was begun to be rebuilt in 457 B.C. and is the starting point of the prophecy and from that time it is determined by the vision that the Messiah shall come. He was 'cut off' after 69 weeks (483 years) and scripture says this time is divided into 2 parts 7 + 62. The 7 is the 49 years to rebuild Jerusalem, the 62 is the combined total of 434 years from the rebuilding to The death of Jesus. So 7 + 62 = 69 or 483 years. You've already looked at the illustration in my post.

We know that there is still 1 week or 7 years yet to come, which is Tribulation and as it hasn't yet come, the period between the 69th week and the 70th week is separated by a prophetic gap. It is divided into 3 but split in 2 parts - 7 + 62 = 69 + 1 = 70.

But I'm sure you know this.

I'll leave you with one more thing to think on - Tribulation begins in 2026, just 8 short years.


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on March 23, 2018:

Hi Jack,

No, I am not legalistic, far from it. I am merely pointing out that certain paraphrased Bibles have a tendency to lean towards certain eschatological views in their interpretation, that's all.

Fair enough... I "ask" you to support your views based upon scripture without inserting people, events or gaps, if you please.

As far as a prophetic gap is concerned. Do you not hold to the idea that we are in gap phase of the 70 week prophecy?

Let's look at Daniel 9:27 from the YLT.

27 And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease.

Who was it that cases sacrifice to cease, the Messiah or the prince whose people come to destroy the city and temple with a flood? Only those two people have been introduced to this prophecy, so the pronoun "he" in 27 must refer to one of them.

Yes, I do leave many comments that commend both the writer and others who make comments for their articles and contributions. It is not my practice to attempt to "troll" or shred" other believers, if that is what you are implying.


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on March 23, 2018:

Hi Tony,

Thank you for your response to mine and although I don't fully agree with what you have said in both as in my opinion, you tend to be a bit legalistic in the way you come across. As I inferred by my answer, I used the KJV in the rest of my article but not for the 70 weeks and again on comparison, in my opinion, they take nothing away, nor add anything to it and as I said, I felt it easier for someone with little knowledge or understanding to grasp.

As to your words 'challenge' you to answer difficult questions, they can have a disparaging connotation for some - I would suggest you modify your approach, 'ask' would be more appropriate.

I am assuming by 'prophetic gap' you are referring to the period of time between the crucifixion of Jesus and His return and if so I'm sure you are aware of the 7000 years / 7 days prophecy of human life, which places us almost at the end of the 6th day and explains the 2000 year gap. If that isn't what you are referring to, then I don't know what you mean.

I notice you are quick to add your comments on posts from others but I haven't found any post that you have contributed for the benefit of others. If you have done so would you be kind enough to tell me where I can find them as I am interested to read what you have written.


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on March 23, 2018:

The reason why I asked which version you were quoting from is because the only version that I knew of that added words in parenthesis like that is the Amplified Bible. But, I see now that those words were actually added by you. In my honest opinion you would have been better served to stick with a more word-for-word translation like the KJV. The reason for that is because paraphrased Bibles like the NLT tend to word things to fit a certain narrative or in this case, Eschatological view.

The reason why I didn't continue reading was two fold:

1. I knew that from your explanation of Daniel 9:24-27 that the following verses would follow along the same path of scriptural rendering in order to fit the Daniel 9:24-27 narrative.

2. I then noticed how incredibly long the remainder of this article was.

My intention was not to be critical of you, but to challenge you to answer difficult questions that anyone who reads and attempts to interpret scripture, especially prophecy, should be willing to answer to the best of their ability. When we add characters, events, timetables and "gaps" to scripture, we are walking on thin ice.

I have asked these same questions to many people who hold to the "prophetic gap" theory, to this date, no one has been willing to address them.

Take care and may God bless!

Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on March 22, 2018:

Hi Tony,

Quite a lot of questions there!!

Firstly, in answer to your question - which version did I use - I used The Living Bible for those verses. It is a Bible I rarely use, I normally use the KJV but as I am trying to reach any unbeliever who may read it as well, I feel the 70 weeks verses are perhaps a little easier to understand in that Bible. (Of course, a person of your understanding can easily read these verses from whichever version you choose. Paraphrased or not, they still convey the same meaning and doesn't take anything away - if you think they do, that is your opinion.)

I'm wondering if you didn't read any further - did you stop at that point as you seem to indicate and if so then I think you are being perhaps a little overcritical if you didn't read further.

As to the rest of your questions I will leave unanswered for 2 reasons:

1. Some of them relate to earlier verses in that paragraph of which I have said nothing about in my article as they don't relate to my article at that point.

2. Some are leading questions and may result in dragging us both into debate which I feel is not beneficial to anyone in these pages.

I will not go back and forth on this - if you are wanting to be critical of me, I am happy for that and I can accept it if it's constructive, I only ask that you do so in kindness and grace.


Tony Muse from Texas, USA on March 22, 2018:

Hi Jack, I must confess that I got to your section on Daniel's 70 weeks and I had to stop. I'm not sure which version of the Bible you used for Daniel 9:24-27 but I can assure you that it is highly paraphrased and is tilted to promote a certain reading and understanding of this prophecy. I would like for you to read this from a more literal translation like the KJV, NASB or even the YLT and then honestly consider these difficulties with the interpretation that you have put forward.

1. How many individuals does Gabriel introduce?

2. Does Gabriel introduce a future "antichrist" person?

3. Who is the "he" that will make a firm covenant? (hint: it needs to be one of the two people that Gabriel has already mentioned, basic rule of sentence structure)

4. How many temples are talked about?

5. Was Christ the final atonement for sin?

6. Did Christ die 3-1/2 years after He began His ministry?

7. Who makes firm covenants with man?

8. Was there any mention of the temple being built a third time?

9. Was Titus a prince?

10. Was it Titus’ armies that destroyed the temple and city?

11. Did Gabriel mention that there would a "gap period" in the 70 weeks of years?

12. Does Gabriel mention a 7-year tribulation?

13. Does Gabriel mention a rapture or coming of Christ with this prophecy?


Jack Jenn (author) from Living in hope on planet earth. on June 03, 2017:

Hi Jay C OBrien,

Thank you for your comment and also for reading it but we all have different ideas about this and you are welcome to yours. There are so many who are completely unaware - I'm just trying to do a little.


Jay C OBrien from Houston, TX USA on June 03, 2017:

Not all the Bible is Scripture. Any story which depicts God as a warrior or with negative human emotions is Blasphemy.

"The End of Days" refers to the end of Your days. It is individual, not collective.

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