Waiting for Christ?
I don’t know about you, but I’ve heard and read the teaching that people of the Old Testament weren’t officially “saved” until Jesus Christ died on the cross. In fact, their souls are said to have waited someplace (some call Paradise – in the earth), where they later received the preaching of the gospel by Jesus Christ Himself unto “official” salvation; then, taken with Him to heaven.
We’re going to just take a moment to look at a few scripture passages to see if this teaching aligns with the Bible.
In the Beginning
Have you ever read Hebrews 11? If not, please take a moment and do so. In this passage, several Old Testament patriarchs are listed that “died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth” obtained salvation by faith. Note one very interesting observation – those listed are Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...and yes, Moses and Joshua, but there is no mention of the "LAW" (check out Gal 3:12), and we certainly know Jesus had not come and died on the cross yet. We see some that lived before the flood and those who lived during and after the flood. Most of these “fathers of faith” lived hundreds of years before the Law was ever given to Moses.
When Jesus taught His disciples about life after death in Luke 16, He spoke of a certain rich man (nameless) and a certain poor man/beggar, Lazarus. The rich man went to Hades where he was in torment (note: no prison or chains were mentioned regarding Hades; only flames), while Lazarus went to “the bosom of Abraham”. While there was a great chasm fixed between the two places the rich man could converse with Abraham (yet, he had no conversation with Lazarus). Some call the account of the rich man and Lazarus a “parable”, yet it was not prefaced as such in the Bible (as are all the others), nor was an explanation of this so-called 'parable' given, as was with all the others. In fact, Jesus not only used the word "certain" regarding both of these individuals, He mentioned the names of Lazarus, Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Side note: I wonder if Jesus purposefully doesn't 'know' the names of the unsaved? He knows the names of those written in the Lamb's Book of Life, but will indeed say to many on the day of judgment, "Depart from Me, for I NEVER KNEW YOU" (Mat 7:23). Now, how could Lazarus end up in the bosom of Abraham and the rich man in Hades, if there was yet no such thing as favor (salvation)? And, if Jesus was later to preach to people in Hades (hell) unto salvation, why didn’t Abraham tell the rich man he would eventually have the opportunity to be rescued?
Let’s consider Moses for a moment. Moses sinned, right? He killed an Egyptian for murdering a fellow Hebrew slave (Ex 2:11-12); he smashed the first set of holy tablets containing the 10 Commandments due to his rage (Ex 32:15-19) - for this, he wasn’t allowed to enter the promised land (Deut 34:1-4); AND, while God told Moses to speak to the rock to bring water to the people , he struck the rock instead (Num 20:8 & 11). How is it Moses showed up on the mount of transfiguration with Elijah BEFORE Christ died, if he wasn’t “officially saved”? (Mat 17:1-9). Just some things to think about.
Consummation of the Ages
See, in my hub The Lamb’s Book of Life we saw that Jesus Christ (who was known as the Word of God in the beginning) was predestined to be the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). The Lamb’s Book of Life existed from the beginning of creation. Consider the words of David in Ps 139:16 “Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.” Wow! I believe that BECAUSE God knew Adam and Eve would sin and that mankind would need that perfect sacrifice of the holy blood of Jesus, our God (John 20:28; 1 Tim 4:10; 2 Pet 1:1), everyone’s names started out in the Book of Life! It was by FAITH in the coming Messiah those in the Old Testament were saved, and it is now by FAITH in the fulfillment of that prophecy those in the New Testament are saved.
What scriptures would confirm this? Check out Ex 32:33; Deut 29:20; Ps 9:5 & 69:28; and Rev 3:5. All of this is about what causes names to be “blotted out” of The Book of Life, nullifying His awesome grace (Gal 2:21). Truly, the Lamb of God came at the appointed time to consummate the Old Testament ages with the New Testament, as shown in Heb 9:26 “but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”
That Day in Paradise
Let’s now look at the passages that are used to claim Jesus went and preached to those who died before He did, while His body was in the tomb, thus solidifying their salvation and taking them to heaven.
To go in sequential order, what happened while Jesus was on the cross? The thief said to the Lord, “’Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom’. And He said to him, ‘Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.’" Okay, so Jesus went into the tomb, which some claim is Hades. Some say the comma should be moved in the punctuation to read, “Truly I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise”. Well, that would contradict the rest of scripture that proves there is immediate life after death for the soul. Some say Paradise must be in the earth (referring to Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom being so close to Hades). What does Paul say in 2 Cor 12:2-4? “I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.”
Wait a minute. If Paradise is the third heaven, why does the Bible say that Jesus, before He ascended, went to hell [the lower parts of the earth] (Eph 4:9)? Surely, He couldn’t have been in Paradise and hell at the same time! Really? If you don’t believe Jesus was God in the flesh, you might have a hard time understanding that once out of body, Jesus could be everywhere at once. Did Jesus not say He would raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19)? Do we not have the Spirit of Christ in us? Is not the Spirit of Christ the Spirit of God? Check out Rom 8:9 “However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”
That Day in Hell
Now, let’s talk about the Lord’s visit to hell [the lower parts of the earth]. First of all, we know that 1 Pet 3:19 states, “He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.” This is where people get the teaching that Jesus preached to those who died prior to the flood. Truly, the Greek word used in this verse is kérussó, which means “to be a herald or proclaim”. It could be interpreted as “preaching”, but it wasn’t unto salvation. I can tell you any form of preaching would be torment to anyone in hell.
Did we ever see “prison” in the account of the rich man in Hades? How about Lazarus? He obviously didn’t get sentenced to hell or prison of any sort. Why would Jesus “preach” to the saved, let alone the unsaved in Hades to save or rescue them? Is it possible to get saved after death? Not according to the Word. Heb 9:29 states, “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”.
Is there anything in the Bible regarding “spirits in prison”? Let’s stay with Peter’s writings. 2 Pet 2:4 tells us, “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly…”, based on this verse there were “angels” and “the ancient world” who sinned in the days of Noah. While the rich man (and the wicked who died prior to and in the flood) went to Hades, the angels who sinned went to Tartaroo. Hades and Tartaroo are interpreted as “hell” and for good reason. Tartaroo is defined in the Strongs Exhaustive Concordance #5020 as “the deepest abyss of Hades; to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.” There you go! Incarceration means prison, even chains. Consider Jude 1:6 “And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds [chains - KJV] under darkness for the judgment of the great day.”
Other Passages to Observe:
What about the passage that states, (KJV) "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.“ (1 Pet 4:6). First of all, the gospel was preached (past tense); they were "judged according to men in the flesh" (can the dead be judged by men?) ~ and are they living according to God in the spirit? NOW, they are, for they heard the gospel, believed and died in faith. Consider the following versions and even the commentary on this verse:
(ISV) "Indeed, this is why the gospel was proclaimed even to those who have died, so that they could be judged in their mortal flesh like all humans and live in the spiritual realm like God."
(NLT) "That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead--so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit."
Let's address one more passage and what it means: "Therefore it says, ‘When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men" (Eph 4:8). Does this indicate Jesus preached and saved those who were dead? Let’s look at the cross-reference. Col 2:15 tells us, “When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.” Did you know that in Jewish days, whenever a battle was won they would “make proclamation” or “make a public display of the enemy” while “giving gifts” to the victors? What gifts did the victors receive? Praise God, Jesus sent His Spirit and the gifts of His Spirit to us!
In summary, I believe those of the Old Testament were saved by grace through faith in the coming Messiah. The Law was given through Moses as a first type of “mediator” between God and sinful Israel, a foreshadow of the Mediator and High Priest to come, Jesus Christ. If the Law could have made man righteous, God would have given them to Adam. Gal 3:19 confirms, “Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator [Moses], until the seed [Jesus] would come to whom the promise had been made.” At the appointed time our LORD consummated the Old Testament ages with the New, completing and perfecting His plan since the foundation of the world.
Truly, Jesus did not go and preach salvation to the dead, but proclaimed His victory over His enemies, conquered the grave and desires all men everywhere repent unto salvation (Acts 17:30), for today is the day of salvation (2 Cor 6:2)! He is coming soon (Rev 3:11). Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? He’s only a prayer away. God bless you!!
Another hub by Judah's Daughter:
- The Location of HELL
Is hell in the depths of the earth or is it some spiritual realm in the heavens someplace? Whether or not you believe in hell, were going to look at some of the clues in the Bible to see if we can shed some light on this hellish mystery.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on August 23, 2015:
I appreciate the compliments and would like to answer a few things I respectfully agree and disagree with (praise God for iron sharpening iron, sister).
Regarding wedding vows – I agree that if a couple is not joined by God, the marriage vows are in the flesh and if not by the Spirit, will no doubt, fail. For instance, does God join a homosexual marriage? We know the answer.
You said, in regard to why Abraham didn’t tell the rich man in Hades he would later have the opportunity to be rescued, ” Abraham (or no else for that matter) "know the ways of God" (Is 55:8-9) so how could he "know" to tell him?” My answer is this: Abraham was not in the flesh when speaking to the rich man in Hades. He was beyond the grave (glorified). 1 Cor 13:12 declares, “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.” Abraham spoke the truth and was not without knowledge. Do you think the rich man had an opportunity for salvation after His judgment to Hades? Do you think Jesus simply left out that part of the story when He told it?
You said regarding I Peter 3:19 “Jesus taught "the kingdom of God" which is salvation on earth and beneath the earth!” Really? Where do you get “beneath the earth” in the Scriptures? You then went on to use I Peter 4:6 as follows: "For this cause WAS the gospel preached also (I Peter 3:19) to them that are dead (prisoners/unsaved) that they MIGHT BE judged according to men in the flesh (Prisoners were given same opportunity we have been given (Grace) when He went into the grave), but (if they accepted) live according to God in the spirit."
My answer is – 1 Peter 4:6 was addressed in my hub. How could men who were then dead be judged according to men IN THE FLESH? That makes no sense. Rather than misunderstand this verse by using one translation, let’s again observe two other translations, which agree that those who were then dead had the gospel preached to them while yet alive, were judged according to men in the flesh, and because they believed the gospel while alive, now live according to God in the Spirit (just as we will).
1 Peter 4:6
(ISV) "Indeed, this is why the gospel was proclaimed even to those who have died, so that they could be judged in their mortal flesh like all humans and live in the spiritual realm like God."
(NLT) "That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead--so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit."
You said, in response to the rich man being in “prison” - “If not in prison (or something that restrained) why did he need someone to "SEND" LAZARUS or "SEND" HIM TO MY FATHER'S HOUSE..." if not restrained (prisoner)?” My answer is, 1 Pet 3:19 is not speaking of the “unsaved” in the days of Noah, but the fallen angels who were incarcerated in chains in the deepest abyss of Hades (Tartaroo). If you haven’t already, I invite you to read about the pre and post-flood giants. One thing the “days of Noah” and the “days of Lot” had in common were the giants (the Nephilim).
There is no way the fallen angels nor the unsaved humans in the days of Noah, could get saved after Judgment. (Heb 9:27). Even Sodom and Gomorrah yet face the final judgment (Mat 11:24) – why were they not saved, if Jesus preached to them? Is Jesus not able to save them? Nonsense – there is no salvation after death. Just as the rich man was “restrained” from speaking to his brothers who were yet in the flesh, Lazarus was “restrained” from doing the same thing. You don’t believe those in Paradise or Hades can speak to relatives in the flesh, do you? Catholics certainly do, but we know that is false. Lazarus was no more incarcerated in chains than the rich man. They simply went to their after-death destinations. As Sodom and Gomorrah, the rich man yet awaits the final judgment to the Lake of Fire (Gehenna).
John 21:22 is not speaking of someone who has died, but one who was alive at the time Jesus said, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!"
You stated, in rebuttal of Heb 9:29 – “Now let's "rightly divide the Word!" The "law" had to be fulfilled by Jesus on earth as well as beneath the earth before His ascension so "they can be judged as we are" (I Peter 4:6)!
My answer is “rightly divide 1 Peter 4:6” (addressed above). The Law had not yet been given when Abraham died and had not been fulfilled when Lazarus was taken to the bosom of Abraham. The Law had nothing to do with the salvation/damnation of those in the days of Noah, let alone Moses. No one was ever saved by the Law, but rather judged by it (Deut 31:26; Gal 3:10). Since the beginning of mankind, salvation was by FAITH, not works. The Law of Moses was added to give disobedient Israel direction (Gal 3:19-24) and indeed, they were judged by it, while in the flesh, and if they trust in the Law of Moses for salvation, will be judged by it after death. Only by faith in Christ does the Law not condemn us (Gal 5:23; John 5:24).
In regard to Eph 4:7-8, this does not indicate Jesus preached salvation to the dead. Again, the cross-reference to Eph 4:8 is Col 2:15 (addressed in this hub).
Regarding your CONCLUSION – Noreen, are you a Universalist?
Thanks for the love and yes, may we continue to search the whole of Scripture that our doctrine be sound and not contradict.
Norine Williams on August 22, 2015:
Hello JD: Still writing interesting Hubs - Great Job!
I have "off-topic" comment regarding your "Side note: I wonder if Jesus purposefully doesn't 'know' the names of the unsaved?"
They're not His therefore "Dead in their transgressions and sins" (Eph 2:1). This is why I continue to say "Just because couples take wedding vows when "Dead in transgressions and sins," they are not married in the sight of GOD for they are "unknown" to the Lord (DEAD)!"
Back to topic. I agree that there was "favor" (salvation) for the "fathers of faith" prior to the Cross! Ex 33:19 and Rm 9:15 both say [paraphrasing] "God have mercy and compassion on whom he pleases" the same as He does today! One may "appear" unrighteousness to man, but "God looks on the heart" (I Samuel 16:7)!
You said "..If Jesus was later to preach to people in Hades (hell) unto salvation, why didn't Abraham tell the rich man he would eventually have the opportunity to be rescued?" Abraham (or no else for that matter) "know the ways of God" (Is 55:8-9) so how could he "know" to tell him?
You said regarding I Peter 3:19 "It could be interpreted as "preaching', but it wasn't unto salvation. I tell you any form of preaching would be torment to anyone in hell." Jesus taught "the kingdom of God" which is salvation on earth and beneath the earth! I Peter 4:6 says "For this cause WAS the gospel preached also (I Peter 3:19) to them that are dead (prisoners/unsaved) that they MIGHT BE judged according to men in the flesh (Prisoners were given same opportunity we have been given (Grace) when He went into the grave), but (if they accepted) live according to God in the spirit."
"Did we ever see "prison" in the account of the rich man in Hades?" If not in prison (or something that restrained) why did he need someone to "SEND" LAZARUS or "SEND" HIM TO MY FATHER'S HOUSE..." if not restrained (prisoner)? Jesus didn't "preach to the saved" in the grave. Scripture says (I Peter 3:19) "...WHO ONCE WERE DISOBEDIENT..." unsaved! (Side note: That's why I say Judas MAY have been saved" but John 21:22!)
You further asked and stated, "Is it possible to get saved after death? Not according to the Word. Heb 9:29 states, "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." Now let's "rightly divide the Word!" The "law" had to be fulfilled by Jesus on earth as well as beneath the earth before His ascension so "they can be judged as were are" (I Peter 4:6)!
Yes, Ephesians 4:8 does "indicate Jesus preached and saved those who were dead!" It says "...He led captive a host of captives (He captured them (prisoners) into Christ who had previously been held captive as prisoners (sinners), and He gave gifts (Eph 4:11) to men."
Eph 4:7 starts out with "But unto every one of us is given "GRACE"... (So He had to go into grave and afford "prisoners" the same opportunity we have - "GRACE!") (V9) Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended FIRST into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?" (V10) "...that He might FILL ALL THINGS)!" "GIFTS UNTO MEN" (V11)!
CONCLUSION: "The Law" was fulfilled "on the earth" as well as "beneath the earth" providing GRACE to ALL according to Ephesians 4:7-10! Your statement "I can tell you any form of preaching would be torment to anyone in hell." Never "underestimate" the POWER of GOD who can (hold torment as well) do ANYTHING! (Matthew 19:26)
I love how you "Search the Scriptures!" Keep up the good works!
Humbled-T-Wade on July 23, 2015:
Wow! Amazing Hub, and I am sure you will be pleased that it is still receiving traffic this long after it being written! :)
God Bless you, your insight and style is very effective and one that will help me become a better writer and Christian! I am going to follow you and I hope that I receive a follow back! God Bless you!
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 23, 2012:
I want to thank you for your kind comment, ShalahChayilJOY ~~ I'm so GLAD you came to read JOYful and went away JOYful! The Word is so awesome, isn't it? We can reJOYce and be GLAD ~ Praise God!
Shalah Chayil from Billings, Montana on May 23, 2012:
Thank you so much for taking the time to research and write all of this so clearly and precisely. It is a joy to read the teachings and clarifying of the WORD that you bring forth from your union with our soon to return KING.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on April 03, 2012:
Well, Raymond, the first thing that came to my mind is, "the same reason atheists say there is no God". But, honestly, I believe it's because it's an unpleasant and even hated message that would more than likely send members away from donating/tithing into their pockets. Of course, some preach that if you don't give/tithe you're going to hell...whatever seves their interest $%.
2 Tim 4:3-4 state, "For the time will come when they [i.e. members] will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths."
Raymond Conder on April 03, 2012:
why do some preachers say there is no hell? RayConder@hotmail.com
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on April 03, 2012:
Brother Elshabazz! Yes, praise the Lord indeed! It's good to be one in the Spirit, one in the LORD. This is a beautiful Truth ~ the LORD made the Way of salvation since the foundation of the world and it is by His awesome grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9) He saves us. Paradise was the home of the saints of the Old Testament, just as it is our home since and for all eternity.
One of the beautiful discoveries He showed me is the Tree of Life is in the New Jerusalem (Rev 22:2), which is in the Paradise of God (Rev 2:7) = one destination for believers - Old and New Testaments!!
Your words are so true: "We have to give account for what we do, not for anybody else." Not going along with the traditional teachings of men brings persecution from many, but it's God I am accountable to. I will press on. Thank you and God bless you, brother!
Elshabazz on April 03, 2012:
praise the Lord, we need moor of the spirit of truth teaching in the world, today but, moor people really need to read there Bible dont just take any one at there word. study to show your self approve of God, and not man we hafe to give account for what we do not fore any body else.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on March 27, 2012:
Hi CN, your testimony is precious to the LORD and thank you for sharing. Blessings to you.
Crowsnest on March 27, 2012:
I had this dream. Where I was moving from place to place. When I arrived back in my hometown I fell to my knees and in this dream there were doves in the sky like water in the sea and a being came down that looked exactly like what you would picture Jesus as looking as. His hands were open and not a sound could be heard but In my mind I was praying that I had lived a good enough life that I could go with him. After the first time having looked at him I could no longer do anything but sit kneeling in the prayer position with my forehead to the ground. I awoke with a feeling of surety that God and Jesus existed and that there was life after death. I wish that every person could find a solid confirmation of their existance and of Gods as well. Since I was a child I have prayed and never once have I not found a sense of companionship in doing so.
I hope this comforts you knowing that God is not about mystery but about faith and belief.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on March 24, 2012:
Hi rhett barbaree, it sounds like God broke a generational curse that unforgiveness perpetuates. It was a spirit's stronghold on your family that was broken.
Your question insinuates that your grandfather was in a 'place' from where he had to cross over to another 'place', which occurred because of your forgiveness. There is no 'crossing over', if someone is judged to Hades after physical death. This is found in Luke 16:26 "And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us."
If we observe the next few verses, beginning in vs. 27, "And he [the rich man] said, 'Then I beg you, father [Abraham], that you send him [Lazarus, who had died] to my father's house--for I have five brothers-- in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'"
This may be WHY God showed you the stronghold, the curse, in order that you break it, starting with YOU and for the generations that come after you.
There is a 'generational curse' as found in Ex 20:5 (and other passages): "You must not bow down to them or worship them, for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God who will not tolerate your affection for any other gods. I lay the sins of the parents upon their children; the entire family is affected--even children in the third and fourth generations of those who reject Me."
I'm not saying your grandfather is in Hades ~ only God knows that. But, I can say if you are a person who does not reject God, He has given you the understanding and ability to stop this curse because of your faith; for, if you did not believe and rejected His Word, the answer would be the same as given to the 'rich man' (i.e. your grandfather) found in vs. 31 "But he [Abraham] said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone [Lazarus] rises from the dead.'"
I hope this is helpful, though it may not be solely comforting in regard to your grandfather. For you, there is hope and healing to all your generations, if you abide in the faith of the LORD Jesus Christ.
rhett barbaree on March 24, 2012:
I have a question I hope someone may be able to shed some light on. I know it will be difficult because there are no scriptures I am aware of that support my story. However I do without hesitation know what happened is of God and real. It concerns my grandfather who at the age of 19 witnessed his young brother getting run over and killed by a truck. The year was 1929, 3o years before I was born and several years before my father was born. When I was in my 30's and faithfully having quiet times each morning as well as staying away from un healthy foods (close to a Daniel diet) I had two very powerful dreams back to back. The first one God revealed to me was that what my grandfather witnessed had a huge affect on his life in terms of being angry at God for happened. In turn it had an effect on how he raised his children (including my dad) and that the flow of life from him to his children was very much hindered and therefore was the same with my father to me. God spoke to me and said I needed to forgive my grandfather, which I did. The other dream was where I was to help an old man and his ox cross over 8 lanes of very busy traffic. It looked impossible to do but somehow I did this. btw the old man in the dream with the ox I knew symbolized my grandfather. So in a nut shell I broke a generational curse by forgiving my grandfather through prayer and I also helped him cross over somehow in the spirit world (he had already passed away when this whole thing happened. Here's my question. From where did I help him cross over from?
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on February 21, 2012:
Verily Prime, God's put it already in your heart and if in your heart, it IS. Amen! Rejoice and continue to let the Word (Jesus Christ) teach you, lead you, guide you, love you, protect you, bless you, and rejoice over you!! You ARE HIS workmanship and He who began a good work IN YOU will be faithful to complete it, until He comes to gather you unto Himself ~ His beloved Bride!! Hallelujah!!!!
Verily Prime from New York on February 21, 2012:
Amen, sister and pray for myself and family that we are doers of the Word.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on February 21, 2012:
Thank you, Verily Prime! I'm thankful for what the Lord shows me to give and share with others. So many just believe what they are told to believe; we are to challenge those things that don't line up with the Bible. We can't challenge them, if we don't READ the Bible, amen?
People don't want to believe there's a hell; they want to believe that even if we go there (and all of us are deserving when it comes to comparing our sinful selves to God's perfect holiness), we will have an opportunity for salvation by faith at that time. Who wouldn't believe then? And frankly, to see Jesus at the Judgment seat and experience hell would not be about believing by faith as Hebrews 11 and the entire Bible points to for salvation. If seeing is believing, it is not by faith.
John 20:29 "Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent"
2 Cor 6:2 "behold, NOW is the accepted time; behold, NOW is the day of salvation."
May we, as children of God, share the gospel of Truth, warn of judgment and revere our LORD God and Savior, Jesus Christ with thanksgiving. Praise God ~ God bless you, Verily Prime.
Verily Prime from New York on February 20, 2012:
Most enlightening Sister... backing up your premise and exegesis with proof from the very Word - May God bless you through HIs Son Jesus Christ sister with more Divine insights and, moreover, to be bold of in spreading and not compromising the Word.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on November 17, 2011:
USARMYRET, I probably should write a hub on the topic of Chrislam.
2 Cor 6:14-15 "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?" If either those who call themselves Christian or Muslim blend together in religious belief, they are neither, but in appearance as believers are not.
The Bible and Qu'ran are not similar or in agreement; they are the antithesis of each other. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is not the Allah of Abraham, Ishmael and Muhammad ~ a god who is not a Father and has no Son. 1 John 2:22 "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son."
USARMYRET on November 16, 2011:
Beware of CHRISLAM
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 14, 2011:
Bless your heart, ladyt11. Thank you for the much-needed encouragement this day! I continue to study and write as the Lord reveals His Word to me. Some things agree with traditional doctrines and some challenge them. I value the original languages of the Bible and when something stands out like a 'weed' or 'tare' among the true Seed (the Word of God) I delve deeper and research all the more to find as much information as I can to spare the flock from potential twisting (the snake we know all too well). I see the flock as innocent and ignorantly swayed by the doctrines of men. In these last days, I believe God wants to set the confusion straight, as is the true meaning of Ps 98:9, which states, “He will judge the world”. The word ‘judge’ is ‘shaphat’ (avenge). The word ‘world’ is ‘tevel’ (confusion). You are such a blessing to my heart. Thank you so much and God bless you, sister!!
ladyt11 on May 14, 2011:
this is a very informative hub! Even readers who already know what you write about in this hub is truth, it is still refreshing to see someone like yourself so dedicated and so anchored and well versed in the things of God willing and able to share. How refreshing you are to those of us who know the word of God and how Necessary you are to those who don't! You remind me of Paul when it comes to your ability to rightly divide the word and your tenacity and fearlessness in doing so. God bless you and please continue to write. I believe there are many people who read your hubs like they are in bible class! They may not ever comment but I believe you are doing so much good, more than you know! Keep teaching and preaching!!!
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 05, 2011:
lambservant, "Judgment BEGINS at the House of God" (1 Pet 4:17). Your pastor is in gross error and is being seduced by doctrines of demons (1 Tim 4:1).
This whole teaching of Purgatory comes from the Catholic Church. Let me give you some examples of the corruption in that 'church' that spread out into most of the Protestant off-shoots:
Catholics KNEW and STILL CELEBRATE the Immaculate Conception of Jesus on December 8th. So, HOW IN THE WORLD could Jesus be BORN on December 25th? If you read my hub "The Bible Reveals When Jesus Was Born!" we will see that He indeed was born on September 11th.
THEY WERE EMBRACING PAGAN CELEBRATIONS AND STAMPING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST'S NAME ON THEM!!
Catholics TOOK OUT the SECOND HOLY COMMANDMENT and split the ninth into TWO! Why? Because they worship graven images. Check out their catechism commandments!!
Do you know the origin of LENT and Mary being called THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN? Look up the 40 days of mourning for Tammuz, the son of Ishtar (Easter), the "Queen of Heaven". Now read Ezekiel 8:14!!
I could go on and on, but I think the TRUE CHURCH is going to COME OUT OF HER, the FALSE cHURCH, in these last days!! It will be as it was in the early church ~ people meeting in homes, restaurants ~ true believers learning to study the Bible for themselves, so they ARE NOT DECEIVED. Some of the 'elect' of God WILL BE DECEIVED!!
Yes, I am more than familiar with Universalism. If you look me up here on HubPages as "Carrie Bradshaw", you will see my months of refutation of that damnable doctrine, like the 'Purgatory' LIE, LEADING PEOPLE STRAIGHT TO THE MOUTH OF HELL. A chance for salvation after we die through the 'purification' of the fire? LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE!!!
Okay ~ enough of my spouting...I have a passion for the Truth and will rebuke LIES until the DAY I DIE. I WILL BE HATED by those who hold to the doctrines of demons, but I am only accountable to my LORD and SAVIOR, Jesus Christ!! You press on in the TRUTH!!
Lori Colbo from United States on May 05, 2011:
You are an amazing Bible expositor JD. I was riveted throughout this hub as the whole thing about Jesus preaching salvation in hell always bothered me, but I have never seen so much detail in finding breaking down scriptures to support your view (which I believe is biblical). As the one gentleman said in a comment, you give us a lot to ponder. I have always been a good Berean and will write down some of the scriptures you gave and do some more study.
Recently my pastor did a Q & A thing in church because we were in between studies and he thought it would be fun to have people submit questions and he would answer them. We have done it a few times and it is always a full house when he does it. Anyway, someone asked something about hell. His first comments were that no where in the Bible does it say that hell is eternal. He brought up the scriptures that clearly say that it is and turned twisted them to supposedly support his view. Most of the things he said were startling and he warned us we might be a bit surprised that he would be making statements that are not traditional beliefs, but he felt they were indeed biblical. After he shared his beliefs, he went on to share some of the latest doctrines of hell, heaven and salvation that are going on these days, such as universalism, which he comes very close too. So, he said that one line of thinking some people have is that Jesus will someday go to hell and preach repentance and salvation and that those people will have another chance. Some of the things he shared that others believe were so far from biblical that it was astonishing. Then he said that perhaps there was some truth in all of them. Warning, Warning Will Rogers, Danger. Several people got up and walked out. I am very concerned because he reads and quotes a lot from the emergent church leaders. I am praying right now what God wants from me in this situation.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on April 22, 2011:
Hello moeseandelijah, for being a 'prophet' your words must be tested by the prophets (1 Cor 14:32; 1 John 4:1). Now, if you can read this hub and come to the conclusion that "no one is in hell yet", you are in error. Did you not understand the difference between Hades and Gehenna [also spelled Geenna]? And, of course you know, Jesus is our righteousness (2 Cor 5:21), for He fullfilled the whole Law (which HE gave to Moses) (Mat 5:18; John 8:58; John 15:10) and forever accomplished ALL that God required (Heb 7:28; 10:14).
mosesandelijah on April 22, 2011:
no one is in hell yet, the day of judgement has not come yet, jesus is the judge of all of us, people that were in the old testament lived like noah , abraham, sacrifice of lambs-sin offerings, and obedience,faith. moses time the people had the god's ten commandments, sacrifice lambs, holy tablenacel- high priest sin offerings for the people,
moses -isreal customs and jewish traditions-laws- mosiac laws.... and no one has seen the father only jesus has been raisen to everlasting life and his in heaven, jesus has not come for us -true holy ghost disciples elect people, only a few will be saved, holy people obey, follow jesus, sin no more, pick up cross everday, we die daily, live a holiness life, endure to the end to be save,doing good works in jesus preaching the holy way to heaven ,without holiness no man shall see god.... remember satan is also a believer in jesus,and god, but no true, repents, no holy ghost-baptizm, no holiness, no etrnal life, and no heaven.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on March 11, 2011:
God bless you, bill.
bill wilson on March 11, 2011:
you arw surely a sister in christ.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on February 18, 2011:
I appreciate the compliment, Brew Edels. Thank you! God bless you!!
Brew Edels on February 18, 2011:
Love the style of "breaking it down". Thank you Judah's Daughter!
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on February 03, 2011:
Rev 20:6 "Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years." Yes, those in the OT who lived by faith will be, as we in the NT, raised up in the first resurrection, at the start of the millennial reign of our Lord. Yes, what a loving God we have! AMEN!
brotheryochanan on February 03, 2011:
the OT testament people will be brought back to the millenium kingdom to experience christ. What a loving God we have.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on October 13, 2010:
What a blessing to hear from you, brother Francis! Truly!! Wow, this passage you shared is further confirmation of the message in this hub, and Heb 4:3 really ministers to me, even in regard to our spiritual Sabbath rest. "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." (Mat 11:28)
Francis on October 13, 2010:
I thank God for this article. God has blessed you daughter of Judah. When truth is so clear all we have to do is belief and be saved. This is what the Spirit has led me to understand about Jesus who "went" and preached to those in "prisons" and it is evident that the Spirit is not revealing this to only me and you, but to many who want to be saved. The truth is that the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah before the flood but the people believed not and were carried away (lost). God is telling us that we should not come short of salvation like those in the past who disobeyed when the fathers and prophets were preaching. See what the book of Hebrews say:
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
May we believe our Lord Jesus Christ to be an infinite sacrifice not limited to time and space as His blood has cried and continues to cry for the salvation of men and women of all ages. Let's not harden our hearts, let's show faith!
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on September 12, 2010:
Starbuck bsg, so my discernment is confirmed ~ that you are a Jehovah's Witness. I read your response to another hub about the cross, that you insist it was a pole. Would you like to read about the cross, coming from a saved Jehovah's Witness? https://hubpages.com/hub/Believe-in-the-Cross-The-...
Again, I hope you will read my hub called "Beyond Death: What the Bible Says". You are focusing on Old Testament passages and not what Jesus taught us in the gospels and His Revelation.
Regarding Rev 20:14 "Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire", consider Rev 6:8 "I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth."
There are two resurrections: the first is for the saints; the second for the condemned ~ on either side of the millennial reign (Rev 20:5). So, Rev 20:13 is not speaking of the saints, for it is the second resurrection. Yes, the first hell will be emptied (Hades), for they will then be sentenced to eternal hell (Geenna), the Lake of Fire.
I hope you understand that I won't post JW doctrine for others to read. You are welcome to write your own hubs, as you know. I highly recommend hubber exjwlaurie, for she knows where you are, what you believe, and can bring Light to you, in the Name of Jesus Christ.
The saints will inherit the earth, and if you accept the Way of salvation, by faith in Jesus Christ, you too will reign with Him and live eternally in the New Earth. God came in the flesh of Jesus Christ to die for YOU. You are worthy of salvation. Accept His great love for you today! God bless you.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on September 11, 2010:
Starbuck bsg, I invite you to read MORE of the Bible regarding life after death, so you have understanding:
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on July 19, 2010:
I so appreciate you, lifegate! I look forward to sharing the revelations of the Lord through His Word together here on HubPages! Blessings always ~~~
William Kovacic from Pleasant Gap, PA on July 19, 2010:
I've really enjoyed reading your hubs. Thanks for the insight
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on July 17, 2010:
Praise God, little 'fro bro'! Share away!! That's why God has us write and share the truth of His Word. I am comforted by scriptures such as Ps 98:9 "He will judge the world with rightousness [fairness, justly, vindication] and the peoples [flock] with equity [prosperity]"...'world' is the Hebrew word 'tevel' or 'tebel', which means "confusion". Let's clear up the confusion as much as we can BEFORE He comes again! Luv you!
afro's mistake from dorothys kansas on July 17, 2010:
i say this on every good hub but i mean it the most this time. truly this is the best and one of my favorite written hubs by you. the whole idea of actually realizing that jesus was proclaiming his victory unto those angels who mated with humans in defiance of God is truly genious. Every once in a while i find something really interesting on the enternet and i copy it and post it to my yahoo notepad for future reading, and if it's alright with you i think ill do that now. love you sis and God bless
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on June 21, 2010:
Hi 2besure! I think you meant "There is no where in scripture that say Jesus preached in hell" (smile). Yes, preachers have taken liberties to teach all kinds of things based on unlearned traditional teachings, rather than digging in and studying to test what they were taught, like the Bereans. Amen to your comment! God bless you!
Pamela Lipscomb from Charlotte, North Carolina on June 21, 2010:
There is no where in scripture that say Jesus preached in heaven. I believe preachers take liberty with this scripture. I don't know why some say he preached to the captives in hell. I guess they think they are helping us out by filling in the blanks. They really should stick to what the Bible actually says.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on June 14, 2010:
Brother Harlan, you are just such a fruitful branch ~ love, kindness, goodness ~ I so appreciate your encouraging comments every time I hear from you! Hades is certainly the antithesis of a "party", just as Satan is the antithesis of God! You are such a blessing and I just want you to know how much I appreciate you. God bless you abundantly!!!
Harlan Colt from the Rocky Mountains on June 14, 2010:
Praise the Lord JD!
Another great hub!
Personally I avoid the word "Hades." The reason is some faiths believe hades is a place to go party for all eternity, but everyone pretty much knows "hell" is no party. However, you use it very well in this hub, there is no confusion what you mean. You've done an awesome job putting this one together. God has sure blessed you, and me for being able to read His witness through you.
Lord's Blessings always,
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on June 12, 2010:
Hi brother Artin2010! Yes, I wondered if the Lord would have me write (or find time to write) since He's given me a wonderful job that keeps me away from home 11 hours a day now! Over the last holiday weekend, He inpsired me and I am thankful to have written this hub and "God's Sovereignty: Jacob & Esau".
Yes, FAITH is actually DEFINED for us in Hebrews 11, as was applicable to the patriarchs of faith listed there, since Adam and Eve and long before the Law was ever given to Moses. That's SAVING FAITH, the same FAITH we are saved by since the cross. While they had faith looking forward, we have faith in the proof furnished to all men when Christ was raised from the dead (Acts 17:31).
When the sheep learn from earthly shepherds the majority of their lives there is room for error upon error; however, when they study the Bible for themselves, their faith is built precept upon precept, line upon line (Is 28:10-13). I have a hub called "How To Do An Inductive Bible Study" that may help those who wish to know more about how to study to shew themselves approved unto God, workmen that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth (2 Tim 2:15). God desires/wills that we know the Truth and is faithful to teach us! (John 16:13). By faith, He will do it! Amen!
God bless you, brother. Thank you for your wonderful comment.
Art Wartenbe from Northwestern Florida, Gulfcoast on June 12, 2010:
Hi Judah's Daughter, awesome that you are still making time to write for Faith and the Father. It is a blessing to read your hubs. Our faith is super important in these days of misguided teaching and watered down religion. Somedays I find it very hard to figure out the truth in any issue that I ponder, so I turn to Jesus and just ask that the Spirit of the Lord hold me and guide me ! Amen
Thank you for another wonderful read. Blessings!
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on June 08, 2010:
Hi Sister Laurie!! I love your refresment in our Lord's Spirit! I'm certainly not surprised at the moving of the comma, for there are other doctrines that "miss the mark" due to such seemingly "trivial" things, also ~ woe to those who purposefully CHANGE the Word of God to suit their false doctrine, for the Word is Christ!
I always say to compare interpretation to Accounting. Imagine the Accountant has a spreadsheet with perfect formulas already built in, but not locked. If the bottom line doesn't add up, the error is not in the formulas, but in the data entry. A proud Accountant would rather enter a hard number, destroying the formula to "make it work"...that only lasts for a time, for the error and the Accountant's "practice" of deception will be exposed in the end...to his/her demise.
I love you, sister! God loves you!! Bless your heart!!
exjwlaurie on June 08, 2010:
Sister, you always give me so much to ponder! I love your hubs--such evident anointing by Holy Spirit!
You Said: "And He said to him, ‘Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.’" Okay, so Jesus went into the tomb, which some claim is Hades. Some say the comma should be moved in the punctuation to read, “Truly I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise”.
The Witnesses do this very thing, they move the punctuation mark in this verse! Thank you for providing such wonderful light on this topic!
You are a blessing to your readers my Sister! =) Laurie
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on June 07, 2010:
Brother Dave, I realize you may believe in Pergatory, which I find no Biblical basis for. I hope you got the point that those saved prior to the manifestation of the promise, which was Jesus Christ dying on the cross for us, predestined to be so since the foundation of the world, were, like we are, saved by faith. There is no evidence of the gospel being preached to the dead unto salvation.
Every man has an innate knowledge of God and is without excuse (Rom 1:20), and, in fact, Jesus even said that if He hadn't come and spoken to them, they would NOT HAVE SIN (John 15:22), for His grace covered them. Those who died in faith had no need for the gospel to be preached to them to receive salvation. It was already theirs, as they looked forward to the promise. Those who rejected Christ were judged and remain in hell (Hades) until the final judgment to the final hell - Geenna - aka the Lake of Fire (i.e. those who were destroyed in the flood and Sodom & Gomorrah).
Be blessed, brother.
Dave Mathews from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA on June 07, 2010:
Those in Hell before his crucifixion would have to learn somehow that He was the Christ and if they wished to escape from that Hell they would have to choose whether or not to accept Christ Jesus as the true Messiah or not. The believers would be lifted up.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 31, 2010:
I so appreciate your kindness, brother Loves To Read. Sometimes it takes months for a topic such as this to become "revealed" in my spirit, and thus when it falls together, I write on these things and trust the Lord to bless those who read unto His glory. Thank you so much. I appreciate your heart for our Lord and your encouragement to me.
Loves To Read on May 31, 2010:
You are a true follower dear sister. God has certainly ordained you to look far and beyond the depths of his word and to share what you observe with the rest of the world. A truly enlightening hub.
God bless you abundantly for your work.
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 30, 2010:
Hi Pastor Walt :-) I appreciate your kind comment. It does cause us to think when it comes to Jesus preaching in hell ~ His purpose, motive, to whom and why...
The blessed truth is precious to us, realizing God made the Way for salvation since the foundation of the world and not only promised, but kept His promise and still does. He is our awesome Lord God! Yes, "there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Maranatha!!
Pastor_Walt from Jefferson City, Tennessee on May 30, 2010:
An interesting and weel researched and written hub. Thanks for your insight into some difficult Scriptures. I am not sure I agree with on every point of exegesis, but I know we (old and new testament) are saved by grace believing in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, some by looking back to the eternal cross - some by looking forward to the promise. There is non other name by which we must be saved!
Judah's Daughter (author) from Roseville, CA on May 29, 2010:
Thank you so much, brother!! What a beautiful revelation. I was so blessed today that the Lord birthed two new hubs from this vessel; praise Him. I pray He is lifted up and that we know He loved us from the very beginning and never forsook us and never will. He is our Father! He is our Creator! He is our Savior! He is our Redeemer! We will never ever be without our Lord and each other! Hallelujah!!
Robert E Smith from Rochester, New York on May 29, 2010:
What clarity my sister. It is good that you wrote of salvation by grace before the cross. The cross stands in the fullness of time. It stood as a promise that men of old looked forward to and as a promise to us who look back at the historical evidence and marvel. I thank you for caring so much for the word of God and for teaching it with power. Jesus conquered the grave and we can look back and see it. Surely hindsight is 20/20 from our perspective, but it took the same faith as we have to look forward to the promise to come and receive the promised Messiah.