Bible Talk: Double talk in the Bible
This is the first article in a series that will investigate allegations that the Bible is not the true source of salvation for all people. Some of the topics may be controversial, but they will all look at misconceptions placed out there to mislead people and guide them away from the truth.
Today’s lesson is about double talk and why some say the Bible contradicts itself, when in fact it is the reader who misinterprets what is actually being said. We'll look at why the Bible uses such language and how it adds deeper meaning but requires a deeper understanding of the language, history and writing style of the times.
First off let’s look at this literary device that confuses so many. In some circles it is known as a double entendre which means a way of wording that is designed (purposefully) to be understood in either of two ways, thereby having a double meaning.
It was often used in early plays to suggest sexual meanings, such as “he was hard up” which could mean, he needed cash really badly or he wanted to have sex (he was hard as in had an erection) but could not afford to pay for it and could not keep a spouse because he had no money to support a partner.
A clever audience member would pick up on both meanings right away, whereas someone out of the loop, might not pick up on the sexual reference, and someone who was really slow to make connections might not even understand the first meaning either.
In a way, double speak takes a bit of intelligence and worldliness to pick up on and those who get both meanings are the exception rather than the norm.
The more subtle meaning of double talk is also protective of the speaker as it allows you to point out the flaws in governments and individuals without them really having a clue that you have done so.
One would think that the authors of the Bible would “tell it like it is” rather than use words with double meanings, but double meaning is so common in the Bible that Jesus used it himself and often had to pull his poor disciples to one side and explain to them exactly what he had said so that they would get it themselves!
Different meanings for the same word can cause confusion or hold greater meaning depending on how you view it
Words like cold, can mean sneezing, wheezing and coughing; cruelty – as in having a cold heart; freezing temperatures or having no feelings at all.
Coolness can also express calm personalities or someone who is admirable whom others want to mimic, or it could mean someone who is not that interested in what is gong on and trying to keep others at a distance from themselves emotionally.
When it is hot outside, coolness may be desired, but when it is chilly outside, coolness may be unpleasant. Cold ice cream is great, but cold hot chocolate is not, so that some words can mean the same as they are spoken, but be interpreted differently depending on the atmosphere, circumstances or mood of the audience.
The resulting ambiguity or uncertainty of meaning or intention can be confusing, so why does it exist in the Bible and is this proof, as some atheists claim, that the Bible contradicts itself?
To understand this, you would have to look at literary styles at the time of the writing of the Bible as well as oral story telling as it was passed on through the ages.
Different writing styles in the Bible do not mean the Bible is inconsistent, merely making use of literary styles to make a stronger impact on the reader
There are many different styles of writing in the Bible and this would make sense as it was written over a diverse time period by diverse people , even though they were all inspired by God.
Some biblical writings were not inspired by God, but were written as conjecture by people who wanted more than what the Bible offered, somewhat like tabloid magazines making up stories about stars and politicians to whet the appetite of those who wanted to know all the dirty details about the secret lives they could not see on camera.
Many of these writings were not allowed in the finished version of the Bible because they did not meet the standards set for them, while others truly did contradict the Bible and were felt to be false writings.. If you read them, you will find out why they were eliminated, but we’ll reserve that for another lesson. Suffice it to say these books, letters and chapters were said to be influenced by Gnosticism which was a religious sect which thought the way to God was not through grace, faith or good works, but through knowledge of what God was and knowledge of how God worked in the universe. If you are wise, you will reject the Gnostic teachings too, but again we will save that for another lesson.
It is generally agreed that the laws of the Old Testament were written in statutory style. We are commanded what to do and what not to do and given laws and told the consequences of breaking the laws – no double talk there!
Then there is the historical narrative style or prosaic (every day language). This is where the double talk first came into play as we are not commanded to believe in what they are saying, but given factual information that is to be interpreted according to the times in which they were written.
This is one reason why many modern day Christians claim that the Old Testament writings do not pertain to us today, but they do, the same way the history of our countries still affects who we are and why we do things the way we do them today.
This is why George Santayana’s quote: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", still resonates with us today. This quote is also a form of double speak by the way! Santayana was not a religious man, but he appreciated the literary style of religious writings.
It is important not to focus more on the literary style of the Bible than on the writings themselves. For instance, the poetic style of Psalms and the Song of Solomon are brilliant works of literature, but they contain some very powerful insight into mans relationship with God and other human beings that would put Dear Abby’s advice to shame.
The book of Job is so powerful that it is hard to put it down once you start reading. It combines mystery and misery with false accusations, a long trial period, redemption and justification, plus we can all relate to having something we loved taken from us when we didn’t do anything to deserve having it taken away, yet readers of Job cannot help question why God would do something so awful to someone so faithful and it makes us wonder if we are all just puppets in God’s great stage.
The Bible does not give us the answers for this and again leaves us to determine for ourselves whether to continue to trust and follow God or turn away from him, yet further in the historical accounts of the Jews we see the dangers of turning away written clearly in both historical and poetical styles.
We are also given Proverbs, prophecy and genealogy in abundance and when Jesus comes along we are given parables which are clearly understood by those to whom he addresses the stories, but go over the heads of those who live a different lifestyle.
It's a bit like going to an office party with a spouse or friend where all they talk about is shop and you have no idea what is going on so feel left out of the loop.
Consider the phrase: “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.” If you have never pushed or driven a cart that has a squeaky wheel, you might not understand that term at all, but what the term actually refers to is humans who make the most noise and make people feel the most uncomfortable, are usually the ones who get attention to placate them first before the more patient and quiet people who may end up suffering more because they did not speak louder in their defense and yet, it is still clear that being a squeaky wheel is not a desirable thing on either carts or in humans.
One must have a broad understanding of wheels and humanity to understand the statement and this is how much of the Bible is written which is why the Catholic Church felt that regular men did not have the intelligence or training to read and interpret the Bible on their own and should rely on trained clergy to do the job for them.
Of course this leads one to ask, “Why is it so difficult to understand the Bible” and perhaps the answer is that it was not meant to be read as a casual book in its entirety, but was meant along the lines of a textbook, where learned teachers helped guide you through the parts you could not quite understand.
This is one reason why Sunday School and Church and small group gatherings with a trained leader are so important when first reading the Bible. It was not designed as a work of literature, but a book of study, growth and learning.
Why the double meanings? Let’s look at three of them and we’ll get a little better idea of why they exist. We’ll take one from the Torah or Old Testament, one from the New Testament and one from Jesus himself.
Three examples of double talk in the Bible
Old Testament Allegory
2 Samuel 12: 1-9
The prophet Nathan goes to King David with an issue about a rich man who owned a lot of sheep and cattle. A visitor comes to greet him and instead of slaughtering one of his own animals, he takes the pet lamb of a poor man to slaughter to feed the guest. Nathan says that the poor man loved the little lamb as much as he loved his children and asks David what should be done to the rich man.
David says the man must be put to death and pay four times over what the lamb was worth. David says that since the man had no pity, no pity should be given to him.
Then Nathan reveals to David that he is the man. David sent the husband of Bathsheba into battle so that he would be killed and David could take his wife for his own.
Nathan goes on to say that David killed Uriah with the sword of the Ammonites, even though David did not directly kill Uriah, his actions led to his death for evil purposes.
The story is about a rich man who did wrong by the poor man, but in reality it is a story about David and was designed to let David condemn himself rather than have God or Nathan do it.
You can always put the prophet to death if you do not like what he is saying or deny that God is really angry with you for something you did, but when you condemn yourself and order no mercy be shown, it is pretty hard to get around that!
The allegory or double meaning served its purpose. In a sense, Nathan, under the guidance of the Lord, created a knotted noose and stood David in the center and David pulled the noose tight around his own neck so that there was no escaping from it. This is how the Bible uses double meaning, to ensnare those who would deny the authority and power of the word and teachings of God. It’s a pretty clever literary device and holds great conviction to those who ignore the moral teachings of the Bible as well.
The New Testament:
John 11:50 is one of those verses that actually has a triple meaning… yeah, it can get real complicated, real fast and again it is no wonder why people have trouble understanding the Bible, but again, it was not written for the common man, but for the educated and even then, it is easy to miss the meaning of something you can read hundreds of times and never pick up on the subtle nature that lies within.
So here it is: John 11:50 – “You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
These words were reportedly spoken byJoseph Caiaphas a Jewish high priest who is said to have organized a plot to kill Jesus.
While Caiaphas meant that it was better for the Jews to kill Jesus so that the Romans would not destroy them, what he actually said fulfilled a Biblical prophesy, that the Messiah would die to save his people. The latter is referring more to a spiritual saving than a physical saving from Roman destruction of the nation, but as if that were not enough of an irony, there is more!
The theory that one man should die so that the others might be saved is actually being quoted by Caiaphas (reportedly again) from a story in Genesis 44 which tells the story of a silver cup placed by Joseph in the bag of Benjamin, his youngest brother. Joseph was thrown into a deep well by his brothers who were jealous of him, but he was found and rose to a position of authority when they came to him for help, not realizing he was their brother. Joseph wanted to keep Benjamin there with him so told the brothers that a silver cup was missing and the man that had it would be killed and the others would become his servants, but he was “lenient” and kept only Benjamin as his “slave” and let the others go letting “one man pay for the sins of the others.”
That’s a lot to take in, but if you have never read the Old Testament, then it would not make any sense to you. Again, you can’t just read the Bible piecemeal and expect to understand it indepth! It is a highly complicated and interwoven book.
Now for the last of our double talk:
Jesus is so full of double talk that even his disciples don’t understand him sometimes. Maybe he just wanted them to use their brains and figure it out on their own or maybe he was trying to protect himself and them by alluding to the fact that he was the Messiah and the son of God, which would have gotten him killed had he spoken it out loud.
In any event, many great men came to Jesus for advice. One of those men was Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. Nicodemus wanted to know how one could know God.
Jesus tells him that no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again, but Nicodemus replies that he is too old to be born again and asks how can a grown man enter into his mother’s womb to be born again.
Jesus answers that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the spirit. He goes on to say that flesh is born from flesh, but spirit or THE Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Nicodemus is still confused and rightfully so. Jesus says that he speaks of what he knows and testifies as to what he has seen, but when he tries to tell people plainly about how things are on earth (human flesh is born of human flesh and we are surrounded by amniotic fluid, thereby born of water, which also alludes to Baptism), they still do not believe him even though they can see it and know it for themselves, so how do they expect to know the things of God which cannot be seen by humans?
Jesus goes on to say that light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil and they fear that their deeds will be exposed by the light.
There is so much double talk here that Nicodemus turns away because he cannot make sense of it, yet in reality it makes perfect sense to those who understand.
Jesus is not hiding anything, he is speaking plainly. Man comes from water and is made of flesh but the things of God come from the spirit and the light and the light will chase away the darkness and allow those who believe to see the light and live in the spirit.
Later Jesus talks about how his body will be risen from the dead and tells his disciples to eat the bread, which represents his flesh and drink the wine which represents his blood.
Atheists use these teachings to claim that Christians worship a cannibalistic zombie risen from the grave. Christians know that the body cannot live without blood circulating nutrients and that the bread of life represents the nourishment of the soul and not the body and that we cannot live or survive for very long without following Christ’s teachings and sharing them with others.
Double talk in the Bible is not simply a literary form of entertainment though, it is there to teach and connect something we know (eating bread provides us with energy to keep our bodies alive) with something we don’t know or can’t see like the spirit that sustains our souls.
If you research the original words used in the Bible in the original language in which they were written, you discover even more word play that connects a difficult concept with a more easily understood one and makes a difficult passage easier to understand.
It is impossible to read the Bible as excerpts and interpret the meaning without knowing the context in which it was written, thereby we have an angry and jealous God in one chapter and a loving father who cares for his children in another, but it is the same God, the same way your earthly father or mother can be angry if you do something wrong, but loves you anyway and corrects you through punishment so that you will not continue to make the mistakes which can harm you or others.
The Bible is very complex and the double talk is not there to confuse or contradict. It is there to draw you closer and encourage you to open your mind and your heart and see things not as you think they should be, but as and they really are. A complex thing you cannot know is related to a simple thing you do know, but you have to make the connection or it has no meaning and this can be the hardest thing about studying the Bible. It really requires you to think and to study and to live the commandments, not just set them aside as outdated.
While you can always take the word of someone else as to what the Bible means, it is always a good idea to do some research on your own and to read a verse in the context of the chapters around it and with knowledge of the whole Bible not just individual snippets.
Next up on the agenda: why all paths lead to the one, but how this might not exactly be what you thought it would be! Warning, there is double talk involved in this one too!!
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 18, 2018:
You need to have a little more faith in peoples own understanding of thing's, "not beliefs"
Appreciate the conversation.
Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 17, 2018:
It is not "an issue with other's beliefs" because I have been there and done that also, it is my interest in getting people to overcome rejecting and attachment to anything including their beliefs. I present an alternative view.
I understand "I AM THAT I AM is the one TRUE god and Jesus is one off the two prophesied christs" and that it is "by grace [ Isaiah 7:14-22 ] ( that I am ) saved through faith [ Hebrews 11:1 ]; and that not of ( myself ): it is the gift of God [ 1 Peter 2:9 ]: Not of works, ( I ) should boast" which has brought me to where I am. Therefore, since it's like I'm describing sunset with the approaching darkness coming from the east while others describe noon with with darkness only below the objects and until they get to a sunset they have never seen they can't comprehend what I'm saying meaning I have a testimony of my spiritual conception, gestating, trivial, birth, babyhood, childhood and now spiritual adolescence awaiting the powers of the spirit I now BOW OUT while thanking you for our conversation.
Peace be with you.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 16, 2018:
( John 17:3 ) Emphasis "KNOWING"
"Not" to learn about or take knowledge of.
Isn't this the truth ? According to the christian faith ?
I understand them 2 verses you mentioned very well, but also keep in mind ( Ephecians 2:8-9 )
I don't follow paul, i agree with the "words" he used. All scriptures come from God. ( 2 Timothy )
I think it may be best for you to "bow out" since you seem to have issues with other peoples beliefs.
Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 16, 2018:
When we are spiritual, Gustas, and someone presents their views I believe one should show them the error of what they are saying if they believe it to be so. That is a part of what got Jesus killed, he was showing the religious leaders the error of their teachings and actions compared to their scriptures so if I believe in communicate my views so we both are allowed to grow. My mind is open for corrections of what one believes needs to be corrected, my experiences has shown me that is the primary means to spiritual growth.
One thing I've learned is "to know I'm correct prohibited my finding my errors." I don't believe anyone has all of the truth among us so I seek all those who will assist me fine the entire truth. I live the truth as I see it and that has reinforced what I believe, when I was like most religious people what I was saying didn't even make since to me that is why I forsook everything for what I gleaned Jesus' instructions were.
I think where we differ is I give Jesus' words priority over anyone else's in the new testament while you seem to give priority to the disciples' and Paul's before Jesus'. Since I believe Jesus is the "son of god" I rather believe him rather than those who reiterated his words in a somewhat different way.
The two scriptures I prioritize are Mathew 19:29 "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life" since what I can gather from his teachings is he did that and 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."
Both Paul and Peter appear to have followed those instructions which is why they both ended up dead in Rhome, is how I see it. Do you see it differently or not? But, if you are satisfied with your spiritual growth as it is, I'll bow out and let you remain satisfied as you are.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 16, 2018:
Accsept people as they are, keep all things simple.
All i know is what i know, you cannot force feed spiritual growth, it comes in it's own time.
I cannot converse with anyone for the sake of conversing, i have to have something to say first. You have got a lot of things wrong as it happens, but it's not my job to prove you wrong, going to say it again, "I don't believe in trying to change peoples opinions" and convinced, no matter what is said, you, me, and most others will still believe what they want anyway.
Will quote ( Romans 14:8 ) again "If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord" ( I can live with that )
If i have anything to say, will say it, but not going to converse just for the sake of it. I don't think I'm right on everything, and don't need to prove myself either. That's spiritual growth.
Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 13, 2018:
It was not said to mean "you missed something" although it is obvious you has not included some of Jesus' teachings and other biblical scriptures. I said it with the hope you are not one of those "I know I'm correct and nothing anyone else say will change my mind" kind of person. By accepting to converse I expected and see you come across the same way but I'm willing to accept it for the purpose of learning if there is something I've missed, and you pointed out a few that I thank you for.
According to my experiences and understanding, if one wants to be educated they must set aside their "I'm correct" attitude and objectively receive differences and argue our one's differences before going into meditation to see if they can be and how to integrated them. That is my purpose for communicating the differences and listening attentively and objectively to other's presentations. That is how spiritual growth is done according to my experiences.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 12, 2018:
Just having a 2nd read of what you said, it all comes over as "Yes, but you missed something"
I don't believe in following charismatic, "dogmatic" or "elite" views from individuals.
Peace to you as well.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 12, 2018:
I heard it said "Most people don't listen with the intent to understand, they listen with the intent of giving a reply"
I don't have all the answers, I'm only human like the rest. I also said i don't believe in trying to change other peoples opinions or the way they "themselves" understand things.
I agree and go along with what is says in ( Romans 14:8 ) "If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord" For that reason also, i don't believe any of us are saved untill we are saved.
I can see the reason and benefits behind "double speak" at times, but regarding the "Hermeneutics" of the scriptures i believe ( Genesis 40:8 ) "Do not interpretations belong to God" ?
( Romans 14:4 ) "Who are you to judge someone else's servant" ? That's a good way to see things. The emphasis is on "US" not what "someone else's servant" does or the way they understand things.
Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 12, 2018:
Yes, Gustas "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him" does define being born again while following his wondering life and un-judging is the evidence seen and heard by us as John 3:8 suggests. I also Recognize John 1:12-13 as saying "children of god" will live the example of the one called "the first begotten of god" and make us forsake everything of the world and educate ourselves as wonderers for obtaining the power of god.
Emphasis' "to all who received him, to those who believed in his name" means we must first know what his name, in Hebrew, Yoshua means. It means "I AM THAT I AM saves" so how are we going to believe I AM THAT I AM SAVES without us each becoming an I AM THAT I AM?
You didn't take John 3:8 "The wind blows wherever it pleases, So it is with everyone born of the spirit" to where it require all born again to become like that as " so is every one that is born of the Spirit" reveals. How can one be born again without completing that part? So, yes, one must of their own accord believe to the point to ask god within ourselves (Luke 17:21) to direct us into the way that makes us children of god with "dominion" (exceed the ability of) all of earth and its beings.
I concur, humans (or "minds unable to comprehend all things") are the only earthen beings who have to have a spiritual birth from the carnal minds of judging things into the minds of man (or 'minds able to comprehend all things" for making us "children of god" who know understands all things).
Do you know the prefixes "hu" means "hewed from" and "wo" means "woven from" and man means "minds able to comprehend all things"? Without that understanding one doesn't know what the metamorphosis of the new birth consists of, a complete change from the judgmental mentality to one recognizing "all things are what their nomenclatures call them and no evil, good or any of the other judgmental adjectives."
That is why some of them discarnated like Paul and Peter are known to have done. Remember
"20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."
Then In Rev. 10:11 And he said unto me [John], "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings" suggests John is still here until the second christ arrives. So, how much greater works has John done ministering for nearly 2,000 years and, I'm supposing, he will be one of the two messengers in Revelation 11 either doing or after the second messiah brings Isaiah 2:2-4's world peace where he will also exceed Jesus' 39 hours in death by remaining "Out of Body" on earth with people rejoicing about it for three and a half days.
We are not disagreeing, it appears you haven't done what is necessary for Isaiah 28: "9 Whom shall he [god] teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk [of human's teachings], and drawn from the breasts [human teachers].
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little" to safest in your life, by my experience says, it is the new birth.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 12, 2018:
Going by everything you say, it sound like it all comes down to the understanding of what "born again" really means.
You did say you take ( 1 John 5:1 ) at face value, but really thats the definition of "born again". Also in the book of John ( John 1:12-13 ) Verse 12 "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" Verse 13 "Children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God"
Emphasis again, "to all who received him, to those who believed in his name"
About ( John 3:8 ) "The wind blows wherever it pleases, So it is with everyone born of the spirit". That can also be understood that whatever the spirit touches it transforms, but that still requires the believer to believe in that name "willingly" first. "Free Will"
Unlike the animal world, humans beings are probably the only ones capable of being "born again" with the "Spirit" itself. That in itself cauld be seen as a miracle. The fact that Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand these things must mean that even in the O/T they must have had some kind of understanding of rebirth or regeneration, meaning to be made new again.
Regarding the "Greater works" ( John 14:12 ) Even the apostles in Acts never did greater works than Jesus by raising the dead and so forth, even in todays world nobody can raise the dead or genuinely heal people for good, so the greater works must refer to something different. The miracles Jesus did were just miracles for unbelievers who needed signs, but the real miracles and greater works are the renewing and spiritual transformation of the "heart" for all people worldwide, which are the real powers to be obtained.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 10, 2018:
Not to sure what you're trying to say, need to reread it and look up all them verses again. Give me 2-3 days to respond.
Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 10, 2018:
Gustas, I don't attempt to change anyone's mind, I am always willing to communicate with people with a different view than I, even it they don't want to change I want to know what they believe, they often have something to cause me to rethink what I believe because none of us will know we have the truth until the "Branch from Jesse and David's root" come to unseal the book (Bible, Rev. 5:5) and manifest according to Rev. 5:12 since Jesus was the "Rod" from Jesse's stem" (Isa. 11:1) who rose WITHIN three days, 3pm Friday to sunrise Sunday (John 2:19-21), received riches at birth and had power and wisdom prior to his resurrection.
I taking 1 John 5:1 for face value and I see the Christ's words in John 14:12, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" would be evident in our lives [following his example] and teachings [becoming like the wind with the hearers not always knowing where you are going after sharing your message per John 3:8].
I also take 1 Peter 2:9, "But ye are a chosen (Jew's definition) generation, a royal priesthood (proclaiming the word via speech and demonstration), an holy (Complete) nation, a peculiar people (strange and unusual); that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light (ignorance into understanding)" at face value.
It is for those reasons that I am willing to communicate with others, to know I fit those and other scriptural descriptions of these called into "his marvellous light."
Being about "double speak" suggests to me two things;
1) our words and actions does not match and
2) I will say one thing and mean something different.
The foregoing explains the first while the second can be explained by saying something like "go to school and get an education." That is impossible when we know the meanings of the two words. School is the process of getting human-en-mass "to follow leadership even to their own demise as soldiers do" while education encourage sone to become "an objective observer, participator for determining various outcomes for reasoning and being able to explain their findings to others to see if they missed valuable information concerning it."
Another of the second is to preach "follow Jesus" who had forsaken everything (Mat. 19:29) during the 18 unaccounted for years while never leaving home to experiment and decide for ourselves even though Gen. 2:24 tells us that is what we must do when we compare it to Jesus' life and words.
If we especially stoped doing the second "meaning to doublespeak" and live what we say it would require being born again over a period of time, for me it required almost three years to complete from spiritual conception to birth and 7 years before I became a spiritual adolescent I still am because I haven't obtained the powers Jesus manifested.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 08, 2018:
Bj. Love this article.
Elijah. Generally I don't believe in trying to change other peoples opinions or the way they understand things, none of us are appointed judges, but this "born again" is a very serious subject to take lightly.
When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, ( John 3 ) he was using "double speak" or else that would contradict other verses from the bible.
Example ( 1 John 5:1 ) "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the christ is born of God"
"Born of God" carries the thought of born again, same "Greek Word" same root meaning. The emphasis however is on "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the christ"
Unlike tadpoles our regeneration comes from above, but begins with the belief that Jesus is the Christ, and aided along by the holy spirit which comes from above.
If being born again came in one instantaneous moment it would do away with so much of the counsel and instruction the bible gives in changing a person from within which all takes time.
When we can overcome addictions, change our behaviours, deal with entrenched lifestyle habits etc, we start to see the kingdom of God in a far more spiritual manner than one instantaneous moment of being born again.
To "See the Kingdom of God" ( John 3:3 ) is the same as "Enter the Kindom of God" (John 3:5 ) Nothing mystical.
But to enter the Kingdom of God requires "effort and deliberate ongoing change for the better" which is done via "Free Will"
I don't think Bj missed anything as it happens, the article was about "Double Speak"
Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on September 08, 2018:
Tadpoles are regenerated when they complete their metamorphosis, Human/woman's regeneration is out of the mind from good and evil. The purpose of the Adam and Eve metaphor's naming the girl "woven from man" is woman are incomplete man like tadpoles are incomplete frogs. Man means "minds able to comprehend all things" so woman would be "minds unable to comprehend send all things" and the new birth corrects that which obtaining the "knowledge of good and evil" caused.
Gustas banderas bandelious. on September 07, 2018:
Also like your reply to Arkhan. Makes sense. We all use double speak at times, not just jesus. Regarding 'born again' it just means 'regeneration' which can happen over a period of time. Even the best born againers are still dealing with the old nature. Nothing mystical.
Gustas bandelious banderas on September 07, 2018:
Bj. This article is cool. Not cold or child cool but "Good" cool. You know what i mean :)
Elijah A Alexander Jr from Washington DC on June 09, 2018:
That was fully explained and I concur. However, as you pointed out using Nicodemus, with all of your explaining you missed it still requires being "born again" to comprehend spiritual things. That, in turn, requires our knowing what a "new birth" is.
[See my hub "A Tithe, A Tenth, Ten Virgins" if my explaining it does not suffice.] A frog lays it eggs in water which morphs into a tadpole and in the fulfilling the tadpole's life it morphs into a frog that lives on land: compare that to Genesis 1 through the flood. The Genesis 1 man were, so to speak, frogs who gave birth to tadpoles Adam and who he later named Eve. Through this civilization the tadpoles reincarnate until time for this civilization to end when "ten virgins" (10% of earth's man population) will provide 5% who actually survives and another 5% who replaces those waiting in Revelation 6:9-12 (see Rev. 14:13) who are the dead in Christ who reincarnates during the first millennium and together reproduces a whole 100% for Revelation 21's civilization where man don't recognize our bodies and without sea or sun. Thus, the "new birth" is human/woman morphing into man.
Thus, human, man and woman needs to be defined.
Human and Woman, using Genesis 2:23, is defined for human "hewed from" and for woman "woven from" man which means they are incomplete man. With man meaning "minds able to comprehend all things" it means they are not able to comprehend all things. With man meaning "minds able to understand all things" it also means man are god as the proper definition of "Emmanuel" means "god in man or in man is god." Thus, the 10 virgins are god-man who replenishes the earth with human or woman who, in the next civilization, are spiritual beings rather than material.
Beverly English (author) from Savannah on May 12, 2018:
Arkhan, one would speculate that the reason Jesus used double speak was the same reason he used parables, to speak to the understanding level of the people. In some sense it is like watching a kids show that alludes to an adult topic in a way only the adults would understand, so does speak a bit of elitism or more kindly, insider speak. It could have been used for various purposes- to share private matter in a public forum, to use open "sarcasm" to ridicule someone who was not wise enough to see it as ridicule, though one would not expect this of Jesus. Still, when dealing with Pontius Pilate is seems to come off as a conviction of the man without actually condemning him... it is like he feeds him a line and Pilate wraps it around his own neck willingly and even admits that Jesus has not sinned and that if the Jews convict him it is on their heads, not his (even though he could have stopped it) and on Jesus' head, who ironically also could have stopped it but didn't.
One does not have to be intelligent, so much as wise to understand many things in the Bible and even wise men are confused as to exactly what everything means... The Jewish scholars spent years trying to decipher some of the meanings and Christian scholars formed councils to determine what exactly was Biblical and what was not. it is not a Catholic or Jewish or Protestant issue, it concerns all readers of the Bible and leaves a lot of room for questions still, which is fascinating research. The Bible is definitely not boring and the word is definitely alive and intriguing even in our current age. I cannot elaborate on why Jesus used double-speak, only speculate why...I suppose that is a good thing, not a bad thing and my bio states I am Presbyterian, neither Gnostic or Catholic ;-).
Arkhan on May 11, 2018:
This essay is double speak itself. It does not elaborate on "why Jesus uses double speak". The claim that only the " educated" can understand the scriptures is misleading and resonates with gnostic idealogy. Furthermore, if those who seek God need someone to train them , i dont believe it would be for life. But im guessing you are catholic which is heretical church.
Andrew Petrou from Brisbane on January 06, 2015:
I advise people to take a more scholarly scientific view of the Bible.
For example, when we read Shakespeare we allow him to use various literary devices such as metaphor, hyperbole, etc . If Shakespeare didn't use any literary devices it would be unnatural and unreadable.
Why expect the Bible (or indeed any other form of writing) not to use any creative grammatical devices? In the Bible we see the use of poetic devices, descriptive analogies, historical reports, and a whole host of other literary devices. If we were to read any poem as factual we would entirely miss the point and feeling of the poem. A poem is not meant to be taken literally! As an example this means if we stubbornly refuse to acknowledge any literary devices for what they are we would be deliberately misinterpreting what the writing actually means.