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Why Good Girls Love Bad Boys

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James Dean- Image of an original bad boy


Opposites Attract

The "you complete me" love cliché transforms into "you excite me" when good girl meets bad boy. In a way, he is foreign to her; exciting, unpredictable. This combination will amount to a co-dependant, combustible couple with opposites being attracted to the other for all the wrong reasons. A good girl jumps in with no awareness of who she is dealing with while a bad boy has the art of manipulation down to perfection. He is excited by the prospect of a new "game" the good girl has to offer.

The truth is, typically the good girl picks the bad boy because of how he makes her feel; fascinating, needed, pursued, and good. He is a rush and a big, part charity case too- he's got a lot of issues and If she tames him or helps him, it will be the ultimate good deed. Of course it's not that simple. There are many other reasons a good girl is drawn to an irresistible bad boy.

Hero bad boy Mark Whalburg


#1 My Hero

The main male character in almost any movie has a lot of typical bad boy characteristics. To be a hero, chase the bad guy, and save the girl, you need manly characteristics, resourcefulness, and a willingness to do whatever it takes, even break a few laws. No hero conquers anything at the end of day by asking nicely with superior gentleman-like manners. Heroes act before thinking, exactly what bad boys are known for, and nice guys, well they get to be the "friends" or ran over in the high speed chase.  

Just like we can't blame men for preferring the typical female body portrayed in the media, well women are just as susceptible to the traits in a male hero role. After all, didn't Princess Belle fall in love with the tyrant Beast in Beauty and the Beast?

In a typical movie, the main male character has to be interesting and engaging. The truth is a bad boy has faced more struggles and adversity, which makes for a more interesting, complex, and resilient person- the stuff movie roles are made of.

On the topic of characters and roles, a bad boy helps a woman escape her busy mind and become someone totally different. Good girls live under a heavy burden of expectations from others, always doing the right thing, saying the right thing and being pleasing. It's nice to simply not care and relax. Basically, bad boys are equivalent to a full body massage, a few shots of tequila, or a riveting romance novel scene.

Jack Nicholson- Charming womanizer


#2 Give and Take Needs

Good girls are pleasers and bad boys are takers- perfect example of opposites attract or yin and yang. In love, there is always the dealer and the addict- they need each other. Good girls have a natural instinct to give and nurture and not think twice about expecting anything back. In fact, it makes them happy to give to a guy who is good at taking- they feel needed. The bad boy may also require a little extra nurturing due to a rough past and inability to love deeply or unselfishly. He is used to being resourceful and using what he can to take what he can- a survival mechanism or maybe a game. Either way a good girl is a prime target; she never knows exactly what she is getting herself into.

Good girls find the good in everyone and even she sees the hurt little boy behind his bad boy facade. When she is with this guy, she is always thinking she will be the one to help him or "he only opens up to me", and somehow that will feel like a compliment. She won't give up on him as quickly as most people will. She gives him endless encouragement, feeding his needs and hers simultaneously.

Colin Farrell...Celebrity serial dater


#3. Bad Boys are Good...Looking, that is

Bad boys tend to be better looking- they put more effort into their appearance because they need to attract (bait) women. He knows he is good-looking and he knows people are watching him- he can be very aware and selfish. Even if a bad boy isn't totally gorgeous, his status ("Bad Boy") and attitude alone will captivate any woman. A bad boy image has been glamorized for ages, possibly before the Marlboro Man smoked his first cigarette.

Bad boys are good at attracting an audience- they have all the right superficial characteristics (boyish, assertive, mysterious) that seem exciting and alluring for a quick pick-me-up, and you will never get to know this guy beyond his pick-up line. He's a silent tortured soul and his looks state everything you need to know about him. All these traits can be intriguing to a good girl who hasn't been around too many people like him.

#4 Bad Boys Make Women Feel....

ALIVE! There is something about a nice guy that makes many women feel as if their life is over right then and there- it will be predictable and mundane forever. Bad boys are different- they make women feel sexy, exciting, and free. How enjoyable a woman's sex life is very dependent on how she feels about herself when she is around someone. Bad boys will make her feel more senses than anybody else.

Women's fantasies, movies, and romance novels are usually based on a rebel or bad boy- a smooth talking, confident, against all odds, survivor and fighter. All this makes women explore a different side to themselves as well as a secure feeling- he will be our hero and protect us. For a minute, it's like living in a romance novel; part hot sex and part drama. Ironically, we made need protection against him.

#5 Let me in

Bad boys are mysterious. Think of Johnny Depp, not necessarily classified as a bad boy- not with a wife and kids, but he has a quiet, artistic, somewhat tortured soul vibe to him. He is a mystery. Women love a good mystery.

If you want to know what a woman is thinking as she instinctively spots the bad boy in the room; "I wonder what his story is? Why is he that way? It's a mystery so I must find out". Bad boys always have layers to them- you'll be peeling that onion all your life. A bad boy may give her an awkward compliment or say something intriguing and this instantly draws her in. The mystery ensues.

Men love a good chase and hunt, but women love a good nut to crack, somebody to figure out, and even fix. She make a mystery out of nothing sometimes. Women love to make things difficult- it's the truth. We make mountains out of mole holes and mysteries out of thin air.

Reformed Bad Boy; Robert Downing Jr.

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Reformed: Johnny Depp


Reformed or prior bad boys

There are a group of guys that fall into this category. Many good girls desiring to settle down, find themselves falling for a reformed bad boy, and getting married/starting a family with one. Some bad boys never become reformed and choose indefinite bachelorhood or trouble ultimately lands them in prison or dead. These are harsh facts, but I can give some credit to the bad boys that find their way out and become a better man for it.

However, one must be equally cautious in relationships with them as well. They can revert back to their old ways easily, they have a hefty amount of baggage; many ex girlfriends, trouble with the law, kids from other women, maketheir own rules, chip on their shoulder, and quick to anger. Bad habits die hard.

Tommy Lee- Rocker bad boy


Signs of a Bad Boy

1. Appearance, appearance, appearance! Tattoos, piercings, smirk, extra sharp well-dressed OR extra tattered rough clothing.

2. Attitude- vague answers, aloof demeanor, and confident/cocky.

3. Addictions- alcohol, drugs, smoking, women, violence/fighting, dares, speed/fast cars, etc

4. Stands out in a crowd- attracts a crowd or remains by himself, either way is intriguing.

5. Make their own rules.


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Truth Really Is on November 17, 2018:

Those type of women are very mentally retarded anyway.

monia ben saad from In my Dream on May 23, 2015:

Yes you are right girl always love the bad boy. But when the marriage situation is different. Always choose a good husband and compassionate Father. I enjoyed reading and thank you

Cloudlee from Vietnam on April 26, 2014:

Yeah, I am in love with bad boy either

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on April 21, 2014:

Oh Enlightened One,

I've got to laugh at how you plan on marrying non-white woman. Seriously? Have you taken a poll or conducted a study on sluttiness as it pertains to ethnicity? Ok I'm still laughing. Yes, I should have married a non-white woman myself because most men are sluts and all used up. OMG you are...what's lower than beta? Ok that's you because you don't even have common sense. Have you heard your sense? Strange, all of it strange. For every "slut" was a man who is now "used up". I think men have more explaining to do in the slut department than women. Women don't even compare to men "getting around and getting it on" with lack of regard. Also, you could be right that more white women are sluts, but then again they largely outnumber non-white women here in the U.S for instance so your study would be bogus. Sorry, your choice really. How about not worrying about one's ex sex partners and marry for LOVE. What a concept.

Enlightened Alpha... on April 09, 2014:

After reading this it confirms what I long since knew to be true from personal experience anyway I have long since planed to only marry a non-white women preferably a Black or Asian woman since white women happen to be the most slutty of all women. I guess marrying a woman of eastern Europe or Southeast Asia & living in their home country is probably the most preferred option. Well anyway beta men with pride you're probably far more wealthy than me so why don't you marry a foreign woman & live in her country I mean if it's a financial option for me it should be a financial option to all you mini Mark Zuckerberg's out there. Also all you women who are trying to explain away your life choices please remember that it's okay for you to be a sloot & then turn into a reform sloot but it's also okay for beta men to not marry you when you're all used up & to instead marry a younger hottie with far less mileage. Beta men you have the right to want a younger women who isn't used up or you could just marry a reformed sloot after we've had our fun with her, your choice really... (:


''@Black Francis, 'Another trait these boys sport is being Well Hung. Perhaps we just fall in love with the piece they carry and will put up with anything for it! ' Are you kidding me? People are so pathetic and disgusting sometimes.

@izettl, black francis~ that comment could very well apply to Tommy Lee- famous rocker bad boy. After his relationship with Pam Anderson it became common knowledge about his "piece" and it certainly increased hi popularity- many women went after him for that reason. "pathetic and disgusting"? maybe, but true. Thanks for the comment.

@wifelv, Black Francis: It was the truth and often times the truth hurts...Yes I agree, pathetic and disgusting''

This conversation between you three was precisely the reason why I love banging sloots but feel disgust with the thought of me marrying one of them... (:

Mickey on December 13, 2013:

Do you notice that most of the bad boys here have tattoos. Are tattoos a sign of bad boys. I have plenty of tattoo myself and think that might have something to do with it. If you are looking for nice tattoo design check them out here:

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on October 24, 2013:

canklefish (interesting name),

Johnny Depp had some younger years, look it up. Above his picture on this hub you'll notice it says "reformed bad boy", meaning "was"..."used to be" get the point .

And Johnny Depp still holds onto one major trait in bad boys...doesn't care what others think and it makes him a creative genius.

Bizz from East Coast on October 23, 2013:

Johnny Depp is a bad boy? Hmm, it never really dawned on me, even though he starred in plenty of those movie roles...

Avinesh Prahladi from Chandigarh on October 10, 2013:

Interesting hub, my vote goes to Mark Wahlberg.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on September 22, 2013:


I completely agree with you on much of your comment. But usually the worst jerk in a crowd is the best dressed womanizer so I don't know about fashionable, but perhaps.

I jut wrote another hub on this topic and "being different" was the main point. It's very true. Standing out in a crowd!

Dan Lema from Tanzania on September 20, 2013:

Interesting article izettl, however i'd like to add that....being a bad boy doesn't necessarily mean a guy has to have tattoos, piercings, drug addiction or maybe be a's just a matter of living in his own world, making his own rules in it, living with style, being mysterious, unpredictable, experienced in women, spontaneous, exciting in many ways and's a matter of being very different from other men who live in a uniform manner in terms of everything.......and it's these elements even a good guy can adopt and being transformed into something different......

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on June 23, 2013:

Gods Hammer,

I like your approach to dating. I guess there's just a lot less open people out there- a few experiences and they judge everyone else based on that. I know lots of straight turned gay women who just gave up on men. One of your first questions ought to be if they hate men...then you can just hang up on them on the phone instead of going out to dinner.

Gods Hammer on June 19, 2013:

Now, after years of experience with emotional broken woman is when you ask them, how coms she's single?. Either I hear is that her man of numerous years awas an "A" hole or cheater. Yea how come you stayed in that abusive relationship for so long (will be running in my head).Also, what gets me upset is when woman state that all men are just dogs, Usually by then I'm running for my life after that date. Thankfully I try not to spend a lot on her dinner. Thank God for Denny's restaurant and their family coupons... LoL..

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on January 29, 2013:

Déjà voodoo, I agree about provide for your family. This is what the strongest hunter could do for his family in cave days.

Matty, it's not more about protection than providing. Nobody else is going to provide for you or me other than family or a spouse or ourselves so it is a strength if a man can provide for his family. However, with protection others protect us now. In cave days there were no firemen, police, Swat team, and others that protect us in our society. Those others do not provide for us, they only protect. So yes a gun protects us but it is more handy to have something we need every, shelter, clothes, etc. our safety is not threAtened every day.hypothetically yes, but not as literal as our basic needs.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on January 29, 2013:


Well you are partially right about Bill Gates. He is not the typical alpha of cave days because things have changed, however I argue he is still an alpha. Do you think he got where he is without tough negotiations and perseverance. It is time we update our definition of an alpha because some of these nerds like Bill are alphas. The strongest human trait is resiliency and adaptation and I'd say Bill is strong in that. In cave days we needed brute guys and now we don't but that doesn't mean those brute guys are alphas I said things have changed.

You also have to consider women want the feeling of being protected and secure, which is money and physical strength. Nobody ever said these strength and security are foolproof, but they make us feel that way. Women work from their feelings, not always logic.

Society pressures women to be kind and appear nice and sweet while it tells men they must act all tough and exert their chest. It's a lie we all fall into.

Mattywilliams on January 20, 2013:

Yeah, my point was that thousands of years ago the Mike Tyson brute strength was a lot more valuable than it is today.....But since evolution occurs very slowly women are still strongly attracted to a strong aggressive "macho" man.....because during that time period brute strength/aggression was very valuable for hunting/protecting a women and her offspring.

Nowadays with all the technology/guns available it's a whole different story. Guns nullify brute strength entirely.

I think the "provide for the family" aspect is a bit over stated compared to the "protecting for the family" asect.....Lots of beta nerds would be GREAT at providing for the family because they are extremely reliable/hardworking smart etc etc....But women commonly reject them for some unemployed testosterone filled meathead whose been in and out of jail and has never had a steady job....If it was really all about "providing for the family" than safe low-testosterone nerds would be extremely attractive to women as mates....but they aren't (unless they make a ton of money like Bill Gates) but women commonly choose attractive meatheads who have no income and are in and out of jail repetitively.

Nowadays the nerd would be the much more logical mate if you actually stopped to think about it....but in the Caveman era the aggressive unreliable meathead would be the better mate because he was more aggressive and would better protect her and her offspring from dangerous animals/other men etc etc (of course like I said this was before guns).....Evolution doesn't occur that quickly for women to change there evolutionary induced impulses. It's more about protecting than providing.

Dig from Philippines on January 19, 2013:

Matty, your right. but it is about hunters and gathers. Like you said, you could suffice with a gun nowadays. But it isn't the strength. It is the ability to provide for the family. In caveman days the smarter men learned to fashion arrow heads in sticks for hunting. The strongest man can chase his prey and never catch, but a sly man will out think his prey. So many cave women saw him attractive no matter how ugly he was. Also if he is surrounded by many women it draws them closer to that man also. It certainly worked for me. Me and my friend call it "qualifying." You raise your value by having other pretty ladies by you. I fact that is how I got my wife. But that is another story...........

Mattywilliams on January 19, 2013:

As for I said it's good psychologically for women but a disaster psychologically for men...It basically tricks men into acting like feminized goody goods which then hurts them tremendously psychologically when they can't attract a mate whose repulsed by kindness (like I said women are extremely hypocritical and only fake all that kindness/yoga/buddha bullshit because they think it's what society expect of them...but in reality they are NO more moral/altruistic/kind than men are....The whole kindness crap that they portray is just a bullshit front) and than men feel inadequate which often turns to outward or inward aggression....So the best thing to do is for men to learn early on in life what women really want in a man (and like I said in reality it's narcissism cockiness etc etc) so they can get laid/attract a girl and feel good about themselves which will reduce these rampage killings....

Religion doesn't do anything helpful.

Mattywilliams on January 19, 2013:

Bill Gates isn't an "Alpha" if we are talking about a caveman testosterone filled Alpha....If we went back into the caveman days when all that mattered was brute strength/testosterone/aggression ability to fight and hunt etc than he would be an extremely low status man since he is not strong and not very masculine....Yet todays society is much different than the caveman days....Todays society values intellect and much more less "macho" traits than the caveman society of the past so a high IQ nerd like Bill Gates can do great and become extremely powerful....without being some muscle bound meathead...Same with the Google founders...They are very nerdy looking to.

I mean just think about it... I don't want to come off as racist or stereotypical but which culture is more masculine in America??....Black or Asian culture??? Obviously Black culture is alot more masculine than Asian and White culture (and Black Men have higher testosterone on average than Asians/Whites) yet which culture generally has few problems and produced more successful individuals??? Asian culture.....So despite being alot less "macho" than Black men Asian men have been extremely successful in America....Like I said it's a different time.

And while I understand that women want a strong man to protect them (biological need for women) could have the most masculine bad boy on the planet as your boyfriend and if someone was intent on killing you he wouldn't be able to do much....Like I said the 300 million guns out there nullify testosterone....My 86 year old Grandmother could beat Mike Tyson in a fight if she had a gun.

So it's kind of ill-logical and dumb if you ask me....Get a gun and conceal carry if you're really serious about protection.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on January 14, 2013:

I need to correct my spelling above. One comment was meant for "Matty" not Marty. oops sorry.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on January 14, 2013:

Thanks, I'll look it over.

Dig from Philippines on January 14, 2013:

Izettl, Here is a GREAT book that a women with your viewpoint wrote. I read it twice and use it as a reference. ENJOY! Bill

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on January 13, 2013:

Marty, I've always noticed the insecurities in bad boys and that makes them seem more tender in my mind. To be honest I've always felt more mature and older than I am and so-called bad boys I've dated have had an impression on me mostly because of the road they've traveled. For all I've been through I need someone who has been through some sh*t too just so they "get" me. I've lost a few good guys who would talk about their standards up front and I've failed them. Try telling a guy your dad is a woman now. Many nice guys haven't lived a life yet and do not accept someone who isn't perfect. I fell in love with my husband now because he had been through some bad stuff, but learned from those lessons and accepts me for all my faults. I guess u could say he was a bad boy, been divorced, been to jail, jeez he sounds horrible but because of all that he doesn't drink, do drugs, and takes his family and job seriously.

Does every woman choose a bad boy because he's been through more therefore he has more character and wiser? No, I'm sure you are right about women choosing bad boys based on more superficial and/or cave days mentality.

Perhaps I think of an alpha as having the strongest asset to human kind...resiliency and adaptation. An alpha is misunderstood because of the Hollywood definition. We think of it as looks, attitude, etc, but that hardly would protect anybody anyway. Maybe a strong guy, but if you think about it he has to be smart to. My uncle was an alpha not necessarily the best looking, but yes physically strong but overall smart and a true leader. He was always prepared. Is bill gates an alpha? No. I think we agree there. Are today's definition of bad boy and alpha? No, the line is very blurry as to where men of any type fall into in society now...when women can protect themselves.

I just heard today that the Reddit guy committed suicide recently. He could theoretically probably get a girl with money alone but he still was obviously unhappy. He suffered from depression regardless of his early career achievements. An alpha weathers the ups and downs. Resiliency. I couldn't possibly be with someone who can't handle life's ups and downs.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on January 13, 2013:

Déjà voodoo , the strong and the smart will survive...and the resilient. Actually resiliency is said to be the strongest asset a human can have. Thanks for your comment.

Mattywilliams on January 01, 2013:


2 more things....First off the whole term "Alpha" is highly subjective..... Are Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg more "Alpha" than some muscled up gym meathead??? I would say so......Bill Gates was likely a virgin nerd beta who girls probably never gave a second look in high school and college....But you know what he TOUGHED it out and used the one thing he was good at (his smarts....since nerdy men tend to have high IQ's)

In fact if you look at the Forbes 400 (400 richest Americans) the VAST majority of the guys on that list are not traditionally masculine looking men....they are nerdy looking dweebish guys who focused on what they were good at (intelligence and work ethic etc etc) and made it to the top...Of course you have exceptions like Donald Trump and Bill Clinton who are definitely naturally confident alphas (Clinton especially is ultra confident) but most of the richest guys in the country look and act like nerds (Gates, Buffet, Zuckerberg, Google Founders etc etc) not exactly guys who would be attracting chicks in high school.

As for the whole Cave days thing and Bad Boys....Yes thats true...Women need to feel protected (likely a primal trait from the cave days) and a Bad Boy can provide that.

The problem is....we aren't in the cave days anymore....Back in the cave days a bad boy could really protect you...Now with the 300 million+ guns in circulation and all the weapons (like guns) that can completely neutralize brute important is a bad boys strength really?? I mean my 96 year old grandmother could "win" a fight against Mike Tyson if she had a gun....So it's really stupid thinking when you go into it....If you want to feel safe carry a weapon

Mattywilliams on January 01, 2013:

izettl: I'm not being bitter!! (sorry if it came off like that) I'm not bitter because thankfully I realized early in life what the reality of being a social animal is....Plus thankfully I had older brother who taught me the ropes! I'm still a good person...but thats the thing I am a GOOD person...not a "nice" person

Women are no more moral/righteous/kind etc than men are (well maybe they are slightly more altruistic and optimistic)....they just pretend they are because their more influenced by social norms/conformities (which say that women should be caring kind etc etc)....And thats why (thankfully since women hate it anyway) I've never pedestalized them....because they don't deserve it in my opinion and are just as fucked up as men are....well maybe slightly less :)....Now I don't treat women poorly/abusively either and I'm not really a "bad boy" but I certainly don't pedestalize them! Because the psychology behind pedestalizing women is stupidly being tricked into believing that they are more moral and superior to men....when in reality they are only SLIGHTLY more altruistic than men but it APPEARS they're alot more since like I said they follow social cues which dictate that they should act "nice and blah blah" so all that crap about peace and love and "let me quote Ghandi" is usually just a bogus front they put on.

Now I'm not saying that women are evil or something....Like I said they are SLIGHTLY more altruistic and SLIGHTLY more kind to others than men....and I'm sure you are a nice kind person aswell who is compassionate to others and etc. But even you admit you find the cocky narcissist sexy....Now obviously the vast majority of women don't find psychos like Ted Bundy or Scott Peterson sexy....and it's probably just an extreme perverted form of female sexuality to be turned on by serial killers (kind of like Pedophilia in men is an extreme perverted form of male sexuality) but my point stands....Plenty of men don't mate because they are to nice....where as even the meanest psycho serial killers have groupies (these chicks are likely insane/borderline retarded and only represent 1% of the female population but it's still better than no chicks)

And no Izettl I don't blame you at all....And I'm sure you are a very nice person who was very friendly/kind to your nice guy friends even if you didn't want to date them. Nothing wrong with that.

Being attracted to a confident man with an edge or strong man doesn't make you a bad has nothing to do with whether or not you are a bad person....And in fact many of the nicest friendliest chicks I know also have a thing for the bad boys.....Being attracted to a psycho murderer like Ted Bundy on the other hand through DOES makes you a bad person....Cause if you are sexually attracted to a murderer it means you are subconsciously approving of his behavior and approving of murder (and no one has the right to take a life) Bundy killed like 30 women and was a completely evil psychopath....all his groupie chicks were horrible evil people aswell because they are rewarding him for his evil destructive behavior.

HUGE difference in liking a strong confident man (and by the way not all nice guys are passive....some can be very strong/confident but still nice) and liking a puppy killing psychopath.....I think a women having an attraction to a guy with an edge is normal...where as a women liking a murderer is not normal.

Dig from Philippines on January 01, 2013:

Yep, It is all about survival. Breeding the strongest, most beautiful offspring that will continue to populate the world. Only the STRONG will survive. But human are suppose to have sense of logic. They are the only mammal that can smile and laugh (as far as I know). But the primal instinct overrides the mind. When women see you surrounded by other women they are more attracted to you no matter how ugly you are. It makes them out to seek you out and find out more about you. Life must go on and only the strong will survive!

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on January 01, 2013:

mattywilliams~ in a bitter kind of are right about a lot of this. There is something innate about why women (and men) choose who they do.

On the flipside, at least 90% of men will choose the woman with a perfect body over a nice woman with several extra pounds. Is that any less ridiculous or shallow than a woman choosing a naughty boy over a nice one? You guys can't really help it- innate preference tinged with social expectations and standards. Same for men as it is for women.

Women with the right curves were healthier and more fertile (in cave days) whereas men with a strong fighting attitude were better hunters and able to provide more (cave days) so this is built into us biologically as well as socially.

Who can blame any of us Matty?

Mattywilliams on January 01, 2013:

All men need to read this post....Women (even so called "Christian good Women") are not attracted to nice compassionate guys nor have they ever been....All that crap that women spew about kindness and

"ohh look at this buddhist peace quote I have tattooed on my arm" and oh I'm so spiritual and altruistic and I love yoga is a bunch of BULLSHIT....It's just a bullshit fake front that women put on because they think it's what society expects of them....The reality is that women are no more kind/caring/more moral than men are.....that is evidenced by the fact that their are plenty of guys that are lonely and etc because they were too nice to ever attract a women yet there has never been a case where a man has been to mean or evil to attract a women....Hell even killers like Ted Bundy and Scott Peterson gets TONS of love letters and visits daily from women only BECAUSE they are killers.

Now obviously I'm not saying that you should kill someone (no-one has the right to take a life) or become a thug criminal....and the VAST majority of women are not attracted to Psycho's like Ted Bundy BUT being Nice is the absolute worst thing you can do...Don't let a womans stupid Dalai Lama quote tattoo fool you....They secretly fantasize about narcissistic cocky non empathetic men....obviously most women do not like psychopathic killers but they definitely like dangerous badboys

Why is that??? Because we are social animals....and bad boys subconsciously indicate high status....Nice guys do not.

Religion is a TERRIBLE influence on men. Sure it's great to have a good moral code but in general all it does is feminize men. Some of the loneliest most insecure men I know are goody good Christians who always got rejected by women and thus feel insecure and inadequate....An insecure and inadequately feeling man is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen and can often lead to rage attacks against innocents......and men need to have a sex life/validation from women to be happy and healthy....So give them what they want and act like a bad boy....Drop the stupid goody Jesus act that even Christian women secretly laugh at and start acting like a primal man.....Plus religion is bullshit anyway. The underlying purpose of religion and even social mores is just to maintain social order and power...Basically just to trick the guys that were born nicer into hurting their own reproductive chances.....And than just to "suck it up" because you will be rewarded in the next life in heaven with god....News flash....Their is NO next life....Their is no afterlife and you are being duped and feminized by Christian Jesus bullshit.

Now obviously don't become a psycho and don't ever hurt another human being.....But if you want to be a happy and healthy validated individual you (and not bitter and full of rage which can sometimes end disastrously) should stop bringing flowers to old ladies because of "Christian" charity and holding doors open and start acting like the self-fish non altruistic bad boy that Christian and all other women secretly love....Hell even Jesus would have probably been a virgin if he hit on modern women.

Dig from Philippines on December 12, 2012:

Thanks for understanding izettl :) It did help me find my second wife. After 25 years with my first I found that both of us changed so much that we couldn't get it to work. But she is a wonderful mother to my two adult sons. I am now living in the Philippines. WOW, what a huge culture shock. I'm surrounded by everything American but the mind set is a whole NEW ballgame and the women think completely different. SO CRAZY. Thanks for chatting. Have a wonderful Christmas :)

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on December 12, 2012:

Deja~ well thanks for the background. I understand now that you had to put up the front to get what you want. Women may certainly be attracted to the rough exterior just as a man is attracted to a certain body shape or beauty on the exterior of women. I suppose if a larger woman wants a man she must lose the weight or most men will not bother to get to know her. It's called a superficial screwed up society.

Dig from Philippines on December 10, 2012:

izettl- Thanks for your insight :) I failed to give a back ground on myself. I was married for 25 years. I retired from the U.S. Military and got a college degree in computer science. YES, I was a huge nerd. Repulsive to women. Even you admit you had an attraction to badboys. Also I did "sell" myself to get more women. Who want a station wagon when they can have a Mustang! But once I found the lady who had the kind and gentle soul I need to be my life partner I married her. She did admit that initially that her attraction was the tough exterior she saw. That bought me time for her to get to know the real me. Even psychology was a big role in product placement. The packaging outside is made to lure you to try whats on the inside. You are CORRECT. It is SAD that I had to go to such lengths to attract so many ladies to find one with the qualities to be my other half. My best friend is a womanizer. So I understand. He is engaged to a girl and has two girls in reserve. I would like to recommend a E-book to you. My experience was largely based off this book. Perhaps this will give you some insight to my perspective. ENJOY :)

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on December 09, 2012:

Deja Vudoo~ I think men and women are incredibly alike here. I don't know a man alive that passes up a damsel in distress. Just like a woman (you are wrong about "taming") wants to fix or help a bad boy...not tame him. That's a male mentality. I was with plenty of bad boys and most had a squishy inside...not romantic but soft and misunderstood. Many want someone to believe in them and bring out the best in them. Once I got them on the right path (fixed them), I am the one who left.

You were not a proclaimed "nice guy" or you wouldn't have changed yourself for the goal of getting a woman. I would never change myself for "getting" somebody so basically you were a "nice guy" (I call b.s on that) who wanted to "get" more women. How is that different than what you call a bad boy? If the object is to get women or more of them, you are no differen than a bad boy and were never a "nice guy".

You don't hold purses anymore? Well then what good are you? lol. So you sold yourself on the bad boy image...congrats. But you sold yourself...and that's my point. You changed who you are to get more women...a little bit shallow perhaps and not "nice". Bad boys are different than womanizers. If i were you I wouldn't want a woman who wanted me. I want someone who wants me for me if that never came then so be it, but I never would sacrifice my true self.

Dig from Philippines on December 07, 2012:

Women believe that they want a NICE responsible guy to Marry. NOT true. They want a badboy that she feels she can tame. One that takes her breath away and makes her tingle. She believes she can be the one to change him. To break the wild Horse. I changed my life by reading a book about ditching that loser NICE guy I was. But be prepared guys. Once you feel the difference you won't go back to the guy who carries her purse. My heart is still a romantic, but my attitude and exterior was changed. But most lifetime badboys are not romantics. They have a goal. Once they get what they want and get bored with a lady they string her along till she gives up on him. Very few badboys can be tamed. That is why when they cheat on you it hurts so bad, because everything you believed you built up to change him has come tumbling down.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on November 14, 2012:

Jay~ I can't understand why you don't have a woman? You sound like a real winner yourself. If you keep running into loser women, look at where you are hanging out at.

Jay says on November 14, 2012:

it is very sad that there are so many low life garbage loser women today out there, and i certainly do have to agree that many of you women are such a waste of humanity.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on November 07, 2012:

J~ picker and pecker- that's funny lol. Sometimes, as you're saying, is if Dennis already has low/bad outlook of women today he is likely to only find what he's looking for or expects.

jeanine on November 07, 2012:

that's right check your picker...most guys check with their couldn't resist saying that... unfortunately it's true... and hey Bad Boys have a lot of the same qualities as the great Alpha males... it's why they are trying to be bad... they think they are the alphas and some of them are... a lot of it is perspective though... like the pic above of James Dean... which is our picture of the perfect Alpha male... but there are a lot of rumors out there that he was Bi or even Gay... so Women will like you Dennis, if you are yourself... be easier on the girls out there... they want a good guy... just not a whiner... you're not a whiner are you dear...

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on November 06, 2012:

You really think ALL women are like whatever you think they are? I hear women say the same about guys. Whenever somebody is frustrated with their dating life they blame the other sex. If there are so many great men then why are women saying all the good ones are taken? The shoe fits both- I'm not saying either men or women are acting great out there or are completely innocent.

Depends on who you are attracted to. Many of my guy friends who are single keep going for the wrong type of girls and they say ALL girls are like that. Nope, you just keep picking those type so check your picker. Whenever sombody says ALL women are...or ALL men...or ALL of any type of people- I call B.S on it.

Most of the time when women are into other women it's because they're fed up with maybe men aren't so innocent afterall.

Dennis says on November 06, 2012:

you seem to be protecting the women out there, and many of them are not as innocent as you think they are. like i said with my last comment, there are a lot of us good guys that are hoping to meet a good woman today. but it is you women that make it very difficult for us now, and a lot of women are into other women these days adding to the problem.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on November 05, 2012:

Welcome to the age of technoloy- its not really whats in your bank account but how good you look on facebook. A girl wants to see a man who looks good on paper (or the computer screen). It's all very superficial. The whole system is screwy, but I know what you mean about women today. I see my single facebook female friends putting a status update about all the stats on a guy.

women in the past wanted a man who could suppor them even more than women today so I don't think the money is the whole issue- for most men, they think the issue is always something to do with what they don't have so for you that may be money. But honestly it's society in general. I think women are acting like irrseponsible young men- not settling down for a wihle, wanting to have their cake and eat it too, using men for whatever, and focusing on career.

Dennis says on November 05, 2012:

to izettl, but what about us good straight guys that are very seriously looking to meet a good woman today?. i hate going out as it is, and it is very hard for me since many women like playing hard to get now. i was married at one time and my wife cheated on me, and today women are not really looking to meet men anymore like they did years ago. i have noticed that many women have such an attitude problem, and are so very difficult to start a conversation with now. it is just too bad that the women can't be like they were years ago, and that was a very good reason why our parents and grandparents had their marriages lasted a very long time. it was much different back then, and both men and women were very committed to one another as well. it seems now that women are looking for men with a very large bank account today, and can't accept a man for himself. very sad.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on October 26, 2012:

Well Dennis, I agree with you it's a shame that women pass up good guys, but I wouldnt go as far as calling them names (useless and brainless) because two reasons: it doesn' make you sound like a nice guy and most women who pick abusive guys have had a past with abuse from a parent or relative, even sexual abuse so you actually can't blame them entirely for who they pick.

Dennis says on October 25, 2012:

it seems that many women these days are attracted to the low life boys today, and i would guess they love the abuse too. these are the very sick women that seem to be out there now, what a shame. many women just can't handle being with a good man anyway, and that is why they are so very useless and brainless as well. this is why many of us good straight men have trouble finding a decent woman to meet. we certainly can't blame ourselves for this, since we did not do anything wrong. we are certainly living in different times now, where the low life women are attracted to the low life men. how disgusting.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on October 16, 2012:

David~ I think the general definition of bad boy originated with james Dean...not really the jock type. In fact I don't think any of the guys on list are jocks...maybe Mark Wahlburg. Jocks are jocks and bad boys...well they are the ones with maybe a motorcycle, aloof, outcasts sometimes, smokers/drugs maybe, and sometimes they are the total jerks in the crowd. They can be an adrenaline spike...perhaps Vin Diesel in The Fast and the Furious movie.

The point made with the guys on my list like Johnny Depp, etc is they are the image of a bad boy (Hollywood's image) and many times they play bad boy roles in movies. Who says bad boys can't be intelligent- many I met were and that is an attractive trait. They are almost always complex. I think dumb and jocks goes together better than dumb and bad boys- bad boys are usually misunderstood but because of bad pasts they have bad habits and bad relationship records, being non-committal.

David on October 15, 2012:

I am a little confused by the term bad boy. When I hear that term I think of jock types who are loud and obnoxious, arrogant macho a -holes etc not the more mysterious type. I think men wonder why women like the macho arrogant types. I don't think anyone would question why women find mysterious intelligent handsome guys like James Dean and Johnny Depp attractive, hell I am a straight guy and I think guys like that are awesome but lets face it there are not that many guys like that out there, I think the real question is why women seem to find the other obnoxious type guys attractive.

jeanine on October 10, 2012:

yes me to...

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on October 09, 2012:

love that quote. love that book.

jeanine on October 08, 2012:

I agree...but you are still that girl to me... rescue and save... and because you know it so well... you are perfectly equipped to save dear old dad... and you thought none of this was connected... "if anything matters... everything matters... the shack"...

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on October 08, 2012:

J~ I'm in exactly the right spot. With a former bad boy- I get to hear his stories of being "bad" and enjoy him now all to myself. Best of both worlds.

I never smoked a day in my life, but in my former (younger) life, I somehow attracted the guy in the corner smoking and looking aloof- "what's his story"? That lured me in, then I felt special when he opened up to me about his story and knowing, many have been deeply hurt/bad pasts, I felt a little sorry for them and stayed with them so as not to add to their anguish.

As no coincidence I went into psychology to help people. I don't know what other girls truly see in a bad boy but mine was the notion that I wanted to help them, save them as some men want to rescue the damsel in distress, I wanted to rescue the dude under duress. I don;t think that makes me screwed up as many "nice guys" are claming the women who go for bad boys are. I think many have honorable intents.

jeanine on October 08, 2012:

actually it is the conquest for her... used to be for him be it's her now...I don't think any of them are losers... they have changed you into the right gentleman who reads and tries to express himself in a female forum kind of way... so who is the real loser ... the one who applies herself... or the one she has applied it to... that would be you dear.... don't you wished you were a bad boy... because most bad boys I know... don't write their thoughts down and read others and reply... the real bad boys and girls for that are out being bad... not here writing and wishing they

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on October 08, 2012:

JAY it goesboth ways. It seems many nice guys choose bad girls or girls who don't appreciate them. They want the ones that don't want them- there's something wrong right there.

JAY T SAYS on October 08, 2012:

women that choose bad boys are such losers in the first place, and even if many of them ever did have a good one, they would lose him anyway.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on September 30, 2012:

Steven~ you literally described my late uncle- he was definitely an alpha, but not cocky. He was the type of outdoorsman prepared for anything- someone you want around when "shit hits the fan". So yes I know what you mean.

However, you can thank HOLLYWOOD for today's definition of alpha male. alpha male is now the guy who gets all the girls. Then you can thank the absent fathers for girls/women's issues with men treating them badly equating to love.

Also thanks to also prefer stick thin women in general cmoapred to women woith curves (which acutally serves as child-bearing advantage- if we're talking about cave days, survival stuff). Men also prefer petite women whereas taller women are literally made for child birth. Yes, we've strayed from biological preferences in men and women- I'd say Hollywood is the bigger influence.

Charles~ I agree to some point, but mostly I like a guy with a sense of humor and sometimes that falls into the bad boy category.

Charles Hilton on September 22, 2012:

Steven, love your comment!

The term 'bad-boy' is just a euphemism for 'immature', and if women saw it as such, they would be more hesitant to fall for those 'douche-bags', as you so aptly term them.

But, women who find immature behavior exciting are as immature as the bad-boys.

Steven on September 22, 2012:

I have been seeing a lot of conversation recently about bad boys and how women are subconsciously attracted to alpha male types and how confrontation etc is a necessary part of attracting women, I saw

one video where a women "dating expert" was telling nice guys they had no hope of attracting women, that they needed to be the type of guy who cheats, lies and plays games in order to become a "challenge" for women, that if you are kind, honest, straightforward etc, women will not be consciously or subconsciously able to find you attractive, she called the nice guys "beta males" who are uncomfortable and awkward around women and not real men. I have a friend

who I think falls into this beta male category, he is shy, honest, kindhearted and very uncomfortable around women. He also happens to be 6'4, in excellent shape and probably the toughest guy I or any of my friends and family have ever known. He is half native American guy who grew up in a pretty tough area east of Los Angeles and has won his share of brutal fights with gang members etc.He is an ex Marine and the kind of guy who can fix or build almost anything, he would do anything to help someone in need, he now works for the US Forest Service (he loves animals and nature), trust me if the shit hits the fan so to speak and we go back to living off the land and hunting etc to survive which is the kind of existence the term alpha male seems to be derived from, this is the guy you want on your side, not some cocky macho douche bag who happens to be good with women because he lies and treats people like crap. I wonder do women see my friend as a beta male because he is kind , and not confident and awkward when around them, or is he an alpha male because he jumps out of airplanes to fight raging forest fires? I don't know what

women think (obviously), maybe you have to be a cocky douche to be attractive, but this guy is a real man, quiet, strong, intelligent, brave, and yes kind and as honest as the day is long, if women find those things unattractive then they are the ones who need help.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on September 02, 2012:

franko~ it's a lack of self-esteem. It's like a child who acts out and does something bad just for any attention.

Oscar~ Really? Why would you want to be a bad boy- you have a 50/50 chance of going to jail and there aren't any women there :((

Oscar Notsowild on August 28, 2012:

wow, it seems that women really love bad boys, I would like to become one, any tips would be greatly appreciated or if you could recommend a manual or something that would work as well

franko says on August 28, 2012:

it seems that the women today do go after the bad boy type of men, and would not know how to handle a good man instead. many women nowadays seem to be drawn to the LOW LIFE TYPE OF MEN, but then again the times that we live in, many women today are VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on July 16, 2012:

so very true~ I certainly can't explain sexual preferences. Perhaps some women give up on guys maybe choosing the wrong ones and decide to try wmen.

India~ thanks for writing a comment. I must have the best of both worlds because I married a former bad boy. It's kind of hot!

You can always fantasize too.

so very true says on July 15, 2012:

this is the reason why GOOD GUYS like me that are very SERIOUS about meeting a GOOD WOMAN is very hard for me. i certainly can't BLAME MYSELF, since there are so much more women that are LESBIANS NOWADAYS, explain that one?

India Sapio on July 06, 2012:

Wow. I think the fact you're getting responses well over a year after posting shows how well you've described the whole thing.

The thing is - I think there are truly good girls, and supposedly 'good girls'. I thought I was the first, and only after a lot of time spent on looking inward, I realised I'm the other 'good girl'. Good on the outside, but man, do I love to play with fire.

As I'm writing this, I'm happily married for 4 years to a good guy, and still hopelessly addicted to bad boys, which, as you can imagine, gives me many sleepless nights. There's nothing like the thrill a bad boy gives you, and it's totally addictive. However, and hopefully this will come as a relief to good guys out there, not all hope is lost. Bad boys aren't attractive to EVERY girl, just to some girls. I, for one, am very aware that I could never be with a bad boy for any longer period as the mess that I was always in would leave me completely devastated. Yet, the thrill of meeting someone new, and being able to immediately tell he's a bad boy... with their ability to sense straight away that I 'get' that... is just my kryptonite!

Love to all good and bad boys out there!

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on June 30, 2012:

Thanks Jessie for sharing. If YOU don't think you should be with him anymore, you're probably right.

Harry~ Whoa buddy is this a pissing contest? Can't post your comment. Clean it up a little- this is a respectable hub, not a sex ed course.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on June 26, 2012:

Thanks lalitha!

so very true~ there have always been garbage men and women the point here is garbage men usually end up with good women and garbage women usually get the nice guys....go figure.

so very true on June 20, 2012:

since there are so many GARBAGE WOMEN out there now, they will fit right in with the GARBAGE MEN.

lalitha on June 19, 2012:

Its very useful, nice to know about how bad boys react and what are all the advantage getting bad bo as hubby

Jessie on May 12, 2012:

Hey Guys.I Love Bad Boys but i think they dont really know how to handle women.My boyfriend Austin is a maygor Bad boy and has no clue what he is doing with Girls and i try to reminde him every day how much I Love him but it seems to me he just pushes me away day by day...I Love so much but i dont think i should be with him anymore...Do any of yall have any advice.???

theone on May 07, 2012:

only the weak minded fall for the bad boys, the strong minded fall for the ones that have confidence but aren't negative. humanity = fail

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on April 06, 2012:

moh~ thanks for your insight- got somehting better? Mark Wahlberg represents the "hero" type of man played in movies. Try not to think too hard on that. THanks for the comment.

moh on April 05, 2012:

what a piece of crap mark Whalburg come on

Solaiqah Red on March 20, 2012:

its better to meet a bad guy than to pick the good guy, which in the end will turn into diffrent one. good guy will not last long, they only love to pretend. but bad guy knows how to control everything. they feel inlove and they know how to give importance wid u.

Recovering Nice Guy on March 17, 2012:

After my sad-phase ended, I have re-read all of the convo and now I agree that you were right. My self-doubting at that time was a bit too negative. That kind of me surely will not get a good girl. Not only because of many physical factors, or factors of those girls' immaturity, but because that kind of me basically doesn't deserve a good, quality girl.

It's a shame, however, that most of quality girls by their 30s will be someone's left-over. But I guess I should be happy that anyone settles with me, no? :)

Recovering Nice Guy on March 17, 2012:

Thanks for the reply. It is really hard for you to even write, I appreciate your efforts.

You are right about marrying a non-western woman: www*dot*happierabroad*dot*com/ This as well as Tom Leykis, explains a lot about this possibility. The problem is that I myself am from a rather poor Western country (Lithuania), so my possibilities here are also very limited.

And who cares about my penis size? Well, me, my future-GF that won't be satisfied, her lover she would be cheating on me with and all of her close female friends that would be laughing with my future-GF behind my back.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on March 17, 2012:

Recoverng nice guy~ psychologically you are getting more attention by being negative so responding to your comments really isn't doing you any good. I met my husband when I was 29- I had been over the whole bad boy thing somewhere in my mid-20's. No, fighting and drama now turn me off. I would be extremely turned off if my husband wanted to fight a guy for me. That was love to me in my teens and early 20's. At age 36, and married for 6 years, that is certainly not love to me anymore.

I not only talk the talk but I walk the walk. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis (look it up- lots of pain and even deformity) My hands are killing me just typing this, but I do it anyway. I don't give up. Statistically speaking most people with this disease do give up on doing things and get depressed, but I perservere. My joints are swollen, I am not who I used to be a few years ago, but I've managed to take care of myself and my kids and still eat right and do the type of exercise I can, which is limited. I have not given up at age 36 so why are you giving up at age 22? A virgin til 22- geesh I was a virgin til 21. Girls your age are girls, not women yet. I wouldn't worry about your anatomy so much. By the time you reach your 30's you will find more women who want a man for his personality, which yours is very negative so you may not get a girl with your personality either.

You say you're great at your studies. Well duh! Because you put effort into them. You have confidence in that. Confidence, even if fake for a while, gets you far. How about doing what I did for a few years and do what I want and like and not worry about getting a partner. If your'e open one will come along. You're only 22! You amy have book knowledge but all you really know from life is what your inappropriate grandma has told you- she really shouldn't talk about that stuff. No wonder you have a negative outlook on women. I cared nothing for money and made my own until now I only work part-time because of my disability and my husband works full-time, but I take care of kids.

I have found love and a great husband even though I could have had a negative outlook on men. My dad, by the way, is a transsexual- he is fully a woman, but that's his choice and I'm not going to get all mental or negative about men because my dad is a woman.

Who cares what size your dick is!!!? Your negativity is a negative 3.5!

i have a friend who is somewhat overwieght and small dick- he was my best friend in high school. Well anyway...he got a Columbian woman to marry and he is happy. Other coutnries, your dick sixe is normal and maybe big so marry a non-western woman. PROBLEM SOLVED!

Recovering Nice Guy on March 17, 2012:

Francis, a lot of wise words you have said. On paper. You, however, are right about losing weight. The thing is - I no longer am motivated... What's the point? Hardly anything will change...

To be honest, I have found out that Tom Leykis is telling the truth, actually... Whatever he is saying about marriage, the "bad boy crave", divorce and all that, has been confirmed one way or another. Hell, even my grandmother, ISFJ (her personality type), that is the most caring person I know of, has told me that she married her last husband(she was then in her early 40s) just because for his place of living... I was shocked - I knew what she told was honest... She also told me that she had cheated on her husband a couple of time because he had a small dick. Since I know her, I know she was telling the truth... And also, she told me that when I marry, I should ocasionally check on my future wife as she might cheat on me or use the money in a non-efficient way. Considering this is coming from my relative... my bitterness towards women is more than understandable.

When it comes to positivity, izettl, it is very difficult to have any of it when your efforts are not appreciated. I mean, when you really become self-conscious of what you really are worth for, you really just want to give up. I mean, at the age of (alsmost) 22, I am an obese virgin with small penis that can't drive and feels that he is surrounded by people who doesn't understand him. Now the only good thing about myself that I like is that at least I am one of the best in my studies. I study political science, which I love very dearly and where I know I am one of the top students knowledge-wise. This is the source of my self-confidence.

Also, "Nice guys actually make a woman feel like there is nothing we can do for you that would top what you can do for us" - this is exactly what I am talking about. You, females, always moan and whine saying that you want nice guys, but in reality you really don't... It IS painful to admit and accept that for me because that basically means that I for the very wast majority of females am practically worthless during their best years and will only become an option AFTER their best years are gone and they either have or want to have children and fast because of the "biological clock" ticking. Considering how "much" experience and careless fun with women AFCs (nice guys) have to remember by their 30s when they become an option for most women, and much "little" experience, that becomes part of their baggage, do women have, you really start wondering: do I really want to have an emotionally worn out woman, the leftovers so to speak, when I was not good enough for their types earlier? Hmm...

"A relationship---like a home---is supposed to be sanctuary, not an insane asylum." - these are wise words. And they this is what I deep down desire...

By the way, izettl, you say you don't like drama, but you prefer negative emotions to none and I believe you are contradicting yourself... Also, if this is an attitude of most women - "I met so many nice guys who bought me things and I was turned off by it, but a bad boy who was willing to fight another guy who looked twice at me, now that was love to me" - just wow... An act of kindness is less attractive than an act of violence????????

This raises another question: are Western women, majority of whose would agree with my quotation of your words, really a great catches after all? I mean, lets sum it up what Western women really are:

1. They are "liberated" - they gladly want to take perks that only males had 60 years ago, but they avoid all the responsibilities, such us asking a man out or go to the army... (and don't tell me - you know it's true)

2. They are way too entitled for good home, for good life and etc. A lot of work for maintaining these kind of entitlements...

3. They, especially in youth, dislike traditional feminine traits such as cooking, cleaning and etc.

4. They almost always tell us that we are like a bicycle for a fish - unneeded and unnecessary, and they are only putting up with us because of their "kindness"...

I don't know what about you, but I really want to be valued and to feel important...

Now, of course, you might once again say that not all women are the same and that when women become older, they are starting not to do these kind of things and all... But what these words of yours would imply...? They would imply that I should never give, try to meet women, get shot down many many more times and just WAIT for the right one?

Well, I don't know... My self-esteem is not limitless you know and when you get shot down 10 times because of being not exciting enough, you somehow don't really want to take the 11th chance... And also, when it comes to waiting - this also is a problem... Why should I wait to get something what others are getting right now in bigger quantities and higher qualities (female's youth)? Maybe I SHOULD go to prostitutes... at least they are honest and a "sure thing". You might as well say that getting sex from girlfriend is cheaper because it's free, but... It is a common wisdom that "the difference between costly and free is that free usually costs more".

By the way, my dick size is 3.5 inch with 3.75 girth. This is nothing impressive. And I don't want to get hurt...

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on March 16, 2012:

Charles~ you bring up wonderful points. Too often women who don't have children have that desire to care for something...and I say get a dog. lol. or a hobby like you said. After my experiences with bad boys I did get a dog and took care of him instead.

Anyway, yes I had my experience with a bad boy or two, but I married a reformed bad boy and glad I never knew him during his wild years. He's had to learn some hard lessons, but glad he did. I hate drama so I agree with you on that one. Some women are attracted to drama and bad boys make great talk with other girls.

Too many women get trapped with bad boys- it's like a roller coaster and most of the time it's too good to leave but too bad to stay.

For me personally many men I knew were not good at showing real emotions and bad boys were. I preferred seeing the anger or hurt in a bad boy versus a nice guy's generosity. Always look at the relationship between a girl and her father. My dad never showed emotion, especially anger and he mostly bought me things which meant love. I met so many nice guys who bought me things and I was turned off by it, but a bad boy who was willing to fight another guy who looked twice at me, now that was love to me. It showed emotion and I craved that.

Thanks for a great conversation on this. I think you are completely right about a nice guy who knows how to have fun and adventure is ideal.


Charles Hilton on March 16, 2012:

What you're saying is too often true and I've seen it in some women---who then complain that they're taking care of another child in addition to their actual children.

It's the old tale of the man wanting to essentially marry his mother and the woman wanting a man to be a mother to. But, that's not how a marriage---or partnership---should work. If a woman or man wants a project, then get a hobby! lol

At least a hobby doesn't cause the stress and eventual heartbreak that a bad relationship does. And if women need an adrenaline rush, there's always skydiving and bungee-jumping and various dangerous careers---none of which require a boyfriend.

In other words, save the drama for outside the relationship---except in the bedroom. The bedroom should be full of adventure.

A relationship---like a home---is supposed to be sanctuary, not an insane asylum.

May you find success in avoiding Mr. Wrong. ;-)

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on March 16, 2012:

Yes Francis I agree on a lot of this!

RECOVERING nice guy~ Also it depends on who you are trying to attract in your life. some guys only go for shallow superficial (beautiful) girls.The guys I know that have a hard time with finding a "good woman" are choosing floosies or women who are out of their league, so to speak, or just choosing women who are not right ofr them.

I dated an overweight guy and he was so negative about himself I couldn't stand it. To the public he was outgoing and nice and once I got to know him, he was not really that way- he put on a show for the world of being this great guy when deep inside he was not. What may be turning people off is your negativity and even if you don't think you're coming across that way, people will pick up on it. Like I said this guy I dated was a salesman and very confident in his work and with people, but getting to know him, he was a mess. You must take care of yourself before you can take care with anyone else. I've also dated a guy with a small penis and would be with him- believed he was my soulmate if he hadn't had had a drowning accident. I am a decent looking woman, decent body, and I can tell you I don't judge on things liek penis size (you must be referring to superficial women or what you hear on tV shows), but I did like dating someone who was more positive and cared about themsleves. Congrats on losing this much weight so far. It's not easy. I've had to lose almost 40 lbs twice when having my two children.

CHARLES HILTON~ The needed is misunderstood. Nice guys actually make a woman feel like there is nothing we can do for you that would top what you can do for us. A bad boy has issues- sometimes issues with the la, and mostly psychological. He needs to be fixed and women believe they can do that. They love a good project. That's the way we feel needed. Nice guys don't need us, they're already nice and sane. lol. But bad boys need us.

Anice responsible guy who likes adventure would be great! Not many out there.There's more bad boys out there to choose from than good guys who like adventure.

Francis on March 15, 2012:

To Recovering Nice Guy,

We as conscious, sentient beings have an extraordinary ability to influence the outcome of our own futures. Like attracts like, and if you only dwell on the negative things about yourself and about life in general then all you will ever know is heartache and despair. The first thing you must do is lose weight. The mind, including your emotional state, doesn't function as well when your body is that far out of balance. Exercise can be extremely satisfying once you get into a regular routine, it is no longer work for me, I enjoy running and hiking very much. Secondly, Tom Leykis is an idiot. His business and that of others like him, is one of lies, misinformation and dissemination of negative ideas and energy for the sole purpose of influencing people to accept their materialistic view of the world. I know it is very difficult when you are young, to believe in any of this type of stuff but it is all true. The most important thing that people must do is stop forming all of their views on people and life from television shows like Jersey Shore etc. and jerks on the radio like Tom Leykus. Yes many people in the world, men and women, are shallow and only concerned with physical appearance and traditional male/female character traits, like men who are macho, arrogant "alpha male" types etc. There are however, many people who look much deeper and appreciate inner qualities like compassion, creativity and sincerity. As you get older if you put yourself in the right situations, you will begin to meet people that defy all of the preconceived notions that you hold about what people are and what they like. Believe it or not, there are women out there that could care less about the size of your penis. They would however be greatly concerned about your negative view of yourself and the world. You need to expand your horizons and perhaps your interests to meet the right kind of people. Do not form your opinions based on people on TV or the kids you went to high school with, that is not the real world. Meet people at college, outdoor activities/clubs etc., if you live in a city there are many activities in the arts - music, theater etc. where you can meet some extremely interesting and open minded people. Learn to play a musical instrument if you think you are up to it, I have met the most unusual group of people from my collaborative musical endeavors, playing in bands, playing shows etc. .Meditation is also one the best things a person can do to improve their overall mental and spiritual well-being and awareness, it changed my life. The world is an extremely strange, complex, and diverse place, you cannot imagine the types of people that you might meet until you go out there and experience it with a positive attitude and an open mind.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on March 15, 2012:

Thank you carolinemd21!I think most girls eventually tire out of the bad boys.

Jeannie~ uh oh you're in trouble, but I know it's fun to see where the relationship goes.

Caroline Marie on March 11, 2012:

Great hub. I used to love the bad boy then I got tired of the same old. Now the good guys are refreshing and not a hassle. :)

Charles Hilton on March 11, 2012:

"...typically the good girl picks the bad boy because of how he makes her feel; fascinating, needed, pursued, and good."

I have to take issue with that assessment, somewhat. If being needed and doted on is what women want, then why do they typically reject the nice guys? Most of whom give her all the attention and praise she could ever want?

And, if anything, it's been my observation that the bad boys treat their women like dogs---that is until the relationship is threatened and they have to pretend to be sorry to keep the girl from leaving his stupid ass. And she usually falls for it.

I should know because I ran with bad boys all through my youth and I live and work among them in an area where bad boys proliferate.

Let's be truthful here: "Bad boy" is just a romantic euphemism for "irresponsible." And personally, I think women like them for the drama. Let's face it, nice guys tend to be predictable and therefore boring. But, when it comes to paying the bills and remembering anniversaries, you can't beat a nice guy.

Trick is, to find a nice---responsible---guy who likes adventure and isn't afraid to take risks. And I think that's what you had in mind.

Excellent and challenging hub---up and interesting!

Jeannie Marie from Baltimore, MD on March 11, 2012:

Oh no, I think I am dating a bad boy right now. Sigh. I am living a cliche. Oh well. I will see where it takes me. This is a really interesting hub and thanks for sharing!

Recovering Nice Guy on March 10, 2012:

You are right: my personality is no longer that "nice-ish", hence the name "recovering", as in "recovering from a nice-guyism". And the perspective I am looking from is actually very valid and real, because it is formed through science and some experience. I hope you are not suggesting to look at it with other perspective and self-fool myself. I mean, this is what you might want we do, but come on...

When it comes to pleasure girls, well, you are right - they indeed do have more issues and risks. But, you see, a common wisdom says that "if something's for free, it usually costs more". I am talking about the illusion that sex with a girlfriend is "free". It is not. And I am not talking about financial fees only.

When it comes to losing weight, it is a major issue and my problem, no doubt about it. And I know I could lose weight if I tried (because, as you know, I've lost 40 pounds). But, speaking from the perspective of getting female attention, what's the point? I mean, my personality is not edgy enough; I am usually called an asshole (what now I receive as a compliment, actually), but, as heartiste (one of the PUAs) have written, I am a "caring asshole" as I know I would care about my closest friend and, if I happen to have, girlfriend. But there's a problem: the "caring" part. It is really really boring and underappreciated be females my age. And I don't really want to miss out on all the careless action and get only responsibilities and much less action with leftovers... Besides, because of my small penis my chances that a girl would stay with me after I am done with that "asshole" part and slipped into "caring" part (which would happen pretty quickly) become even slimmer as I would become a boring nice guy with small package. That would be even more pathetic than what is that females on this blog were commenting about nice guys. I doubt that any self-respecting man wants that.

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on March 08, 2012:

Recovering nice guy~ Well when you look at things from that perspective geesh not sure if you have personality going for you either. If everything boils down to your penis size then life will suck (no pun intended) for you. real prostitutes probably have a few more mental issues and STD's than other women so don't see how your comparison works. Not every woman is the same. I have my Psych Degree and some grad work accomplished and I know better than grouping everybody into one category or the other so don't base all your conclusions on women all being the same. Forgive my sense of humor but try losing weight and your penis may look bigger. I have honestly known many bodybuilders who have small ones and get plenty of girls but that's because they have high self-esteem and take care of themselves. When you take care of yourself it shows others they can care about you. I wouldn't go for you based on the fact that, at 300 lbs., you are obese and could die so why should someone go out of their way to care about you if they could lose you to death by obesity.

Just some thoughts....

Recovering Nice Guy on March 07, 2012:

3-4 years ago (when I was 17) I have realized that I have a small penis of 3.5 inches.

At almost the same time I started reading PUA materials about evolutionary psychology and realized that I am a hardcore beta male that is not good enough for young females.

Since then I have started reading more materials on this topic and started listening to Tom Leykis. And I understood that I actually am unneeded.

I also am obese (I weigh 300 pounds) and, although I have started to workout and I had lost about 40 pounds, I had realized that this surely will not be enough because of my introverted intellectual nature that is not prevalent among women combined with my and small penis, and I stopped working out and gained back those 40 lbs because there still is no use to even try regardless. I am THAT screwed.

After reading this article and almost all comments on this article, my skepticism towards women are starting to get cemented... I mean, there surely are legitimate reasons for girls not to like me, because I am obese. But there are other qualities that cannot be changed.

1. I am obese (300 pounds). Now, of course, this can be changed, but... do I really need to do so...? because...

2. I have a small penis (3.5 inch), which surely cannot be changed. I have read about how to make up for it, but the thing is that oral will NEVER change the real deal. Also, when one of my female friends accidentally saw my penis and bursted laughing, it became self-explanatory how females are thinking about it... And I honestly don't want to be cheated on or cuckolded...

3. My MBTI personality type is an INTJ, which translates into intellectual perfection, thinking globally and towards future. None of these traits are valued by females my age (I am 21 years old). And I don't really want to be a virgin in his late 20s who would be a target to become a meal ticket...

So, now, the only reasonable way for me to actually get laid (I'm a virgin) is to wait for my female friends/peers to mature after finishing having sex with other, more worthy (in their eyes) men and, when they will be in their 30s, they will allow me at a very high financial and emotional cost to have what other men already had with significantly much less effort and cost... and that is sex/affection/love... Hmm... Do I really want that at these kind of circumstances?

Especially when:

1. Female infidelity ratio is very high (so is male, but I detest cheating men too, so I am fair).

2. About a quarter of nice guy men are raising illegitimate children (including both - knowing or unknowing nice guy husbands).

3. The divorce rate is 60% of whom 75% (45% of all marriages) are being initiated by women.

4. Courts are favoring women in the Western world immensely and my own future and pension could be harmed by this. No fault divorce and bias against men can make me lose most of my assets even in the situation of my would-be wife cheating...

So, do I really want that? I have read a little evolutionary psychology and I have come to conclusion that evolutionary all women are prostitutes because they exchange their fertility for resources and protection. So, looking in this sense, I see real prostitutes to be at least honest... And, in many cases (especially when divorce is being held as well), prostitutes tend to be cheaper (riskier, though) than "relationshits"...

So, looking at this from my explained angle, hiring prostitutes is a more logical thing to do...

Thanks, izettl, for helping me to come to this conclusion. I really want that this situation would be different. And, if there weren't my college roommate in the room, I might even cry. It indeed is damaging to the self-esteem to really understand that you are inferior not only to alpha males, but to most beta males as well (my penis size, which DO matter, don't even try to lie, is in the bottom 0,1 percentage).

So, yea. I guess, prostitutes is the way...

L Izett (author) from The Great Northwest on March 04, 2012:

Caz K/ Craig~ First of all thank you for following so long and I apologize for not getting back to comments quickly as I've just had a baby.

Anyway...many women suffer self-esteem issues. I feel like an extremely confident woman but I know I had esteem issues in my 20's and wanted bad boys who didn't necessarily treat me good. Any time I met a "good" guy I didn't believe I deserved to be treated that good. I also felt like I could never repay the good guy with as much kindness as he showed me. I left a completely great guy because I didn't feel like I had enough to give back to him. I did not know there were people out there who were genuine givers and like to do nice things. I had come across so many guys who gave but expected something in return. I left that good guy and even now that I'm married and it's 11 years later, I still regret leaving him. So yes it's possible women will regret leaving a good guy.

There are so many factors as to why women seek bad boys- one being popular male movie characters have bad boy traits. Another like I mentioned above is women have self-esteem issues and feel they don't deserve what a good guy has to offer. My only advice for good guys is to taper back and not give everything right away- give a little at a time.

I plan on writing another article similar to this topic about whether women need men- but it's not as bad as that sounds. A lot of things are changing in our society and guys in general are being put aside by women.

Take care


Francis~ thank yo ufor yoru input- very well stated.

Mohsin~ so rathe than hate the game- you play it. INteresting...

Nice Guy~ good points!

laci on February 25, 2012:

i am totally in love with john bender from the breakfast club for all these reasons, he is not a nice guy but the totrued soul vibe has me hooked

Jack on February 19, 2012:

Population of bad girls is more than the bad boys in any country take note.

Francis on February 18, 2012:

Most women are naturally drawn to the "alpha male". It is a biological fact. There are however some women who really do find that type of man obnoxious and unattractive. I do speak from experience and have been in relationships with some of these types. However they are not your typical people, they tend to be more artistic sort of hipster type girls (think Zooey Deschenel etc). Many of these types of girls actually like guys who are quiet, shy, awkward and generally uncomfortable in social situations. These are the types of women the so called "beta male" needs to pursue, they are out there ( if you live in cities like LA, San Francisco, Portland etc they are everywhere) just make sure you dress well because these girls like guys who are stylish, no designer jeans baseball hats and flip flops. If you are a nice guy like me you will probably have no luck with most women, just don't give up there are women out there who will appreciate qualities like intelligence, creativity, sincerity and kindness.

Mohsin on February 14, 2012:

I used to b a typical nice guy. Few months back i met a player bad girl, n got thoroughly played n manipulated by her. Since then hav learned to cultivate bad guy characteristics into myself,. N let me tel u its great n m now havin 3 girls at d same time n dont care abt how i got hurt in d past

Wriben04 from United Kingdom on February 04, 2012:

A guide to understanding a guy. link:

Very intruiging hub by the way, thumbs up! :)

Thisissilly on February 03, 2012:

Wow, what a black and white, and basically negative view of men. So men are divided neatly into 2 discrete camps, "good", and "bad"? What is this, Star Wars? I suspect everyone has their own definition of what they mean by these terms, and ultimately every person is a mix of qualities -- some of which one person may consider "good", while another considers "bad". Many of the guys who are considered "bad" are what would have, in the past, simply been referred to as "men". These traits had adaptive value in the past, otherwise evolution would have wiped them out millions of years ago. Aggressiveness, decisiveness, quickness to judge, steadfastness, and strength are all traits that can get you ahead in life, even if they aren't always "nice" ways to be. Women admire these traits because they have VALUE.

Weak, soft, and submissive men are a relatively new phenomenon in human culture, made possible only by modern technology, agriculture, etc. While men with these traits can now also get ahead in life through academic advancement or intellectual prowess, there is no reason to believe women should gravitate towards them naturally. While this blog gives some explanation as to what makes "bad" traits attractive to women, it then demeans them and portrays them as essentially evil and to be avoided at all costs. But when that marriage to the good guy gets boring, guess who the women turn to to sleep with? The bad guys. It's only natural.

soso on February 03, 2012:

oo i gust bec. girls need love in her life or what ? :)

sandra on February 03, 2012:

oo i gust bec. girls need love in her life or what ? :)

oceanblueeyes7 on January 29, 2012:

nd considered him a man who helped me get through some issues and he gave me some good ideas !!!! So i gave this bad boy my thumbs up :)So i thought.... then the day came when i decided to start dating again, well what a disaster that Every guy i talked to, was about him.... my sob story the story of what happened and why... and things i just didn't understand or remember for some reason.... very strange.. so i gave no one really a chance to know me, I made many friends, but i couldn't see myself loving anyone... this was outrageous, me little miss naughty her self trapped in a love affair with this bad boy that no longer existed in her life....The tears would flow day and night too... And i must say i had so many guy's chasing me and asking me out!! I even had a man waiting for me to get of a plane to greet me and ask me for drinks and another man a sports medicine doctor flew into Logan for one night to see me... and I was like no no no, sorry but i have feelings for this other God it made no sense.. he just used me because he wasn't free for a while.... he was getting all my messages from my damn phone that got a glitch in the system so he new more and more about my feelings and that was so so embarrassing to say the least... I was a mess screwing everything up.. I had him on speed dial for Christ sakes... and shit went to his phone.. OMG !!! I kept digging myself a deeper hole... I have never been easily led by any guy I did the choosing and i always liked a man who had a little dark side to him, a little mysterious and clever and witty and street smart, daring.. you know what i mean... but i also like every type man, I find them all so interesting .... But no matter what kind of person i may seem talking like this... I'm a loyal women a one man women... the cheerleader behind him rewarding him in every way I can... trying to always build him up in everything he does or wants to do in every way... a faithful women no matter what !!! Plus I'm not the jealous type and I'm very friendly too, wear my heart on my sleeve... so that part of me is easy.... But in the end he didn't want to be friends with me, and I was sad over that.. I enjoyed his friendship and he made me One thing that I learned is Bad boy's are bad for a reason !!! and why we are compelled to want them is ONLY because of the chase and the taste of him on the tip of of your tongue... I myself the sexual seeker, the miss independent was fooled... Played and my ego was wounded.. well that is the female emotions in me.... I learned that there is more to a man than just looking for that rush, that chase, that tone or look in his eye... I see so much more in men now than i ever have....great things that put them above many of their kind... a sexiness i never saw in other men... a player or bad boy will never achieve this level inside of him or outside of him... See I was born with class and charisma, men who are bad and players really have to learn that trait, train them selves sorta speaking... act younger, pretend they are listening to you, as they scope the room and you see him do it and brush his disrespect off your shoulders, really this man is about himself, his own needs, his own pleasure really, because deep inside he wishes he was half the person we are.... I feel bad, and don't want his life to be like that, how could he truly believe that's the way he wants to live... I think he wants to be softer inside and more loving inside, but can't or lost it along the way !!!! I'm the type of person that only recognizes the good in people and debates the bad till all i see is good.. that is not always a good thing've always thought of myself as a lover not a fighter, so i tried not to bother him... I text a few times and emailed him to ask why .. he replied once or twice that we had no problem and he was busy working and we were cool.. But i felt played and i think he was with several woman at the same time... I'm sure some men will be like awesome, however that life comes to a screeching halt, trust in that !!!!It will come back to haunt him, even if he does good deeds for every woman he messes with...I truly don't wish that on him or anyone, but it sadly will happen!! Ladies I have lived through so many experiences that i would need years to write, but this little feeling inside didn't happen to me ever, even in marriage...So take my advice, step back access the man first, look for what you want in him, not just the lust part... I don't believe in instant attraction on a first date, even with sex the first time can you truly believe you gave everything you wanted, no way... you think it but don't do it all ... But i do believe in LUST at first site and on a first date for sure so watch out for these differences, you will be better for it.... however if you just want to have that for one night then take it !!! they do... but do it with your feelings in mind, and believe for that night with his feelings in mind even if he doesn't feel it for you... believe he did and move on... don't get caught up in the unreal, forsaken love gets you nothing but pain and insecurities you may never had in the first place....

CazK on January 28, 2012:

izettl, if I may, I would like to pose a very important question directly to you.

For the past two years, I've been following your work on this subject and your remarks, and I will say that I have never met a candid woman in my life who was willing to spill the beans on what's causing these ills the occur in our society with women and finding men. I, like many who have posted on here over the course of two years, can attest to maybe 70% of the stories on here, and by reading these comments, has only confirmed my suspicion.

I'm what they would call a "good guy". I'm 23 years old, and I'm goal-oriented. Graduated college with honors, currently working on my master's and I have a full-time job while in school working in the federal government. I don't waste time when it comes to opportunities, and typically feel that I do not balance my activities as I should. It's more of a 90-10 ratio more leaning towards enhancing my professional skills to a social life. Much of this became this way after I left college, but even then, I wasn't much of a partier per se. I avoid drama at all costs and am very selective of my friends. Some may say I don't have many, but I have my share of them.

In relationships, I have always know to be what they call "husband material." It took me awhile to understand what this meant until I had to see it the hard way (getting cheated on, the girl calling the relationship off just to be with that "bad guy" she's been talking to for 2 years, or to not even get any attention). I've been through all of that, and realized that "bad guys" get the most play because they are so "unique" and "unpredictable" and women like that, and don't like boring "good guys", and the whole sha-bang. I get all that jazz, but what intrigues me most is how they condemn "good guys", but describe their typical guy they want as a bad guy, and I get told that I am too good for them right now. Many see me as the type who is ready to settle, and there is no girl who is ready at my age. Not saying that I am ready, but at least I want to get to know a person well before I decide to marry them (which I look to 27 or 28 years old). For some reason, my niceness is not enough for them. It just blows me away how they talk about how bad they are treated by a bad guy, but fail to seek good guys who, like me, will be loyal, supportive and honest. I just don't understand the philosophy. I know some women in my age group are not quite "mature" or ready to commit in a relationship, but can I come across at least ONE woman who thinks like I do and actually accepts good guys for who they are and not label us as boring individuals?

Anyway, off from my tangent, izettl, after reading your comments, you said you once were, or are still a woman who seeks the bad guys, and your perceptions have changed over the years. Well tell me, the girls who left me seek the bad guys, will there be a definite moment in their life that they will reckon that they may have made a mistake leaving a good guy for fools that the relationship didn't last? Will they one day feel guilty about the mistakes they made and actually develop regrets? Did you when you went through life?

I ask this because I find a good portion of women in their early to mid 40s who are single and never been married, but have kids. I mean, is that what the future holds? Are marriages fading out all together? Or do these women realize they made a mistake and actually might come back to some of the good guys they left?

Thanks in advance for your incite on this. I'd like to see what you think and others on women who finally regret they wasted their time with "bad guys" and neglected the good guys. Look forward to your response.


Craig S.

wish i could have reformed u on January 26, 2012:


ssmith1534 from Atlanta, Georgia on January 23, 2012:

all i got to say is...johnny depp is GORGEOUS!!!! :-)

JBCLKSDIU on January 17, 2012:

i was in love in a bad boy named SEBASTIAN and now after 4 years i always remember him .I LOVE SEBASTIAN

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