Identical Twins - One Gay and One Straight, on Prop 8
A Conversation Between Identical Twin Brothers, About Same-Sex Marriage...
Alongside a multitude of important and even critical issues, that we face as a Nation today - there stands as a raging sentinel... the topic of same-sex marriage! Never before in the history of the world, have we stood at such a pivotal place in time, where a potential decision, could destroy the next generation of society.
The subject of same-sex marriage, also has the potential source of conflict, if we as a society allow it - to divide us from even our very closest of family members. That issue, is whether or not same-sex marriage should be legalized in the United States? There are compelling arguments from both sides of this debate. Perhaps you have not determined exactly how you feel, about legalizing same-sex marriage? There are some that believe, that changing the definition of traditional marriage, which is only between a man and a woman - will not affect their world. Therefore, they are willing to tolerate, that which a small sect of society are demanding.
Right now, you might be thinking to yourself, that I am being sensational about the impact of same-sex marriage, on not only society at large, but on the most intimate of family relations. I assure you, that I am not.
I want to share with you a dialogue, between two brothers who happen to be identical twins. Of great interests, is that one of these identical twin brothers are gay, and the other identical twin brother is straight. This conversation that I am about to share with you, is in regards to Prop 8, and the legalization of same-sex marriage, in California. This is an actual discussion that took place between these two identical twin brothers, that I have been authorized to share.
I will not go into detail, as to how this conversation was made known to me. Out of respect for both of these gentlemen, who are each others identical twin, they will both remain anonymous. But the facts, the passion, and the truths that this conversation reveal - should cause genuine concerns in all of us. We should all feel privileged; that we are being allowed to peer into such a personal encounter between these identical twin brothers, so that we might see, with greater clarity... that which could rock our world!
Note: Please understand, that these two identical twin brothers, were not concerned with grammar, punctuation, etc., as they communicated privately with one another. I have decided to also, not be concerned with these details; only to add very minor additions, for easier reading. I realized that I could not go to the identical twin brother that allowed permission for this to be published, and ask him to edit the conversation. This would have been tampering, with the very essence of this exchange. I could not let him do it for himself, nor is it possible or right, to have him do it for his identical twin brother. So the IM style of which it was created, will remain intact. I have also refrained from the use of any text links, placed within the dialogue between these twins. Reference links will be at the bottom of this Hub, for your consideration...
Identical Twin Brothers - Same and Different
Gay Identical Twin Brother:
This whole Prop 8 is something that has been a huge controversy for many. I understand people's view that they want marriage to only be between man and a women. I really hate to be blunt and apologize in advance for hurting anyone's feelings, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and this is mine. Just because [legalizing] same-sex marriage, would [mean I would] be able to marry, doesn't mean that a marriage between a man and a woman is put in jeopardy whatsoever. I thought the big premise of marriage was to be based on love, devotion and death [do] us part? The one thing that make me sad if this proposition does pass, [is] that same sex couples will not have the same liberties that heterosexual couples take for granted. I want all of you staunch republicans to think for a minute, what if it was your son or daughter whose loved one, was on their deathbed in the hospital, and they could not be with the one that they have lived with and loved for however long. What gives anyone the right to deny someone else!
the right to be with their loved one in the last hours they will have together[?] I know that there will be many responses to the extent, of well my child would never be gay...... Just to let you know its not something you choose. There is no guarantee, even if you think you know your children "so well" that they might be hiding something from you because they are so deathly afraid of disappointing you. I only say this because this is the view I had on life until I was 18 years old.
Just think about it and if you feel strongly about something I have said, I have no problem discussing this with you.
Proponents of Prop 8 make many misleading assertions in their new television ad.
Here’s what’s fiction and what’s fact:
Fiction: People can be sued over personal beliefs.
Fact: California’s laws already prohibit discrimination against anyone based on race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. This has nothing to do with marriage.
Fiction: Churches could lose their tax-exemption status.
Fact: Nothing in Prop 8 would force churches to do anything. In fact, the court decision regarding marriage specifically says “no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.
Fiction: Same-sex marriage would be taught in public schools.
Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education, and no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it. A Sacramento Superior Court judge has already ruled that this claim by the proponents of Prop 8 is “false and misleading.” In fact, the “case” that is cited in the ad is from Massachusetts…the proponents knew what California law said, so they used another state, again to mislead voters.
Fiction: Four Activist Judges in San Francisco…
Fact: Prop 8 is not about courts and judges, it's about eliminating a fundamental right. Judges didn't grant the right, the constitution guarantees the right. Proponents of Prop 8 use an outdated and stale argument that judges aren't supposed to protect rights and freedoms. This campaign is about whether Californians, right now, in 2008 are willing to amend the constitution for the sole purpose of eliminating a fundamental right for one group of citizens.
Regardless of how you feel about the issue, we should not eliminate fundamental rights for ANY Californians. Please vote NO on Prop 8.
The polls currently say this proposition will PASS, but it's by a narrow margin that we can come back from.
If you have friends in CA, please repost this message and let the truth be heard!
Identical Twins and Their Differences - Discussing Homosexuality?
Straight Identical Twin Brother:
You are fighting so hard for a right that initially didn't pass in the first place, and only came to be because of an appeal and a decision of a judge. And furthermore it has only been a "right" for what? A few months? The vote of the people was overturned, and that's what's wrong. I am not a fan of politics but if you realize that we live in a nation and our greatest right is to vote. This "right" has only come about because of a back door hole in the system. It's like a murderer that is sentenced and put on death row. But, he has his right to an appeal, with a good enough lawyer and some time, he a cold blooded killer can be set free pending the appeal. What happened in the supreme court with prop 22 is no different. There is a reason this prop didn't pass the first time around, the great country that we live in, and I am not saying I agree with everything that goes on politically because I do not, but the way that everything is set up and the way the country has been running for years, the people's majority vote wins. As much as I care about you [brother], I love you more than anyone, there is more behind this story than you are presenting here for both sides of the argument, and you need to take a better look at all of it.
Gay Identical Twin Brother:
First off, the sad thing is that it has to be referred to as a "right"! Heterosexual couples take for granted the simple liberties they have as man and wife. I am not saying that everyone needs to agree with same sex marriages, because I know that they are narrow minded individuals that will never accept it. That is the great downfall of this country, people cannot accept others for their differences. After all, is it not what this great country's found principles? Land of the free?
Second, I am absolutely appalled that you have compared homosexual people with a cold blooded killer. It honestly makes me sad that you are so shallow and narrow minded. If you want to marry a women, go right ahead, but why should that stop a homosexual couple whose love is no different than between a man or a woman from having the same rights as heterosexual married couples. From all of the [religious] views on this subject, I feel as if the church seems that their prestige and reputation are on the line if this Proposition does not pass. In my opinion, and you will disagree, but I will say it anyway. Your church is supposedly accepting and welcoming of all different kinds of people, supposedly as well as all other churches, don't think it is hypocritical for you to preach how you welcome people's differences yet you want to bash any one who is not [religious] every chance you get.
Furthermore, you keep commenting on, that you don't agree with everything that happens in politics, I do not either; My problem lies in that you are basically saying that you as a heterosexual male should have superior rights when it comes to wanting to marry someone that you love? Leave politics out of this and think of it from a different standpoint, as my brother! My own twin brother for that matter, are you saying to me that you feel that when I find that person that I want to spend the rest of my life [with], I should be denied the same benefits that you will share with your wife one day?
Identical Twin Brothers - Gay versus Straight, and Answers...
Straight Identical Twin Brother:
First off I want to say, [that] I am sorry for the way you felt about what I wrote. I was in no way, shape or form, comparing a homosexual person to a cold blooded killer. I was comparing the action of the appeals process, that's it.
I really have no desire to make an argument with you about this subject. But there are a few issues that I feel that you need to be more open to. I am sorry that you feel my narrow mindedness has caused me to feel the way I do, but it is not that at all. I am not trying to take away your feelings, but I really want you to look at something, and it will be very hard not to get emotional about it, because it directly involves you and me.
You and I are genetically 110% the same. We have the exact same DNA, down to the nitrogenous bases that compose the nucleotides chains which all add up to form DNA. What I am getting at is every fiber of our being, separately as two individuals, is collectively an exact copy. There is no deviation, yet we have chosen two very different life styles. How can this be if we are genetically the same? Granted there are outside influences that change the way we think, but to say that being gay is not a choice is not correct either? You really have no foundation to support that statement. In the example of you and I being identical twins, WE ARE LIVING PROOF that it is not genetically oriented, in other words, Homosexuals are not born homosexual. Therefore being homosexual is nothing other than a choice. When you look at the facts, there is no other conclusion.
I know that you firmly disagree and will fight to the death on this, but I would encourage you to take a better look at the facts of what I just said, and really think about it logically. I know you extremely well, I can almost predict the next move you make sometimes, please try to understand where I am coming from. I do not love you any less, nor have I ever treated you any differently because of your sexual preference. I love you [brother] with all my heart and I truly do want the best for you always.
You asked me if I felt I had superior rights as a heterosexual male engaged in marriage with a woman, over that of a same-sex couple. I do not doubt that love can exist in both types of relationships. I think the “rights” are what everyone is fighting about. And honestly I have no problems with same-sex couples having the same tax rights and other beneficial rights, you have as a married heterosexual couple. But you have to go back to the basics. Being homosexual is an alternate life-style no matter how you look at it, so why, if you are worried about the same rights to reach “equality”, are you fighting for same-sex unions to be called marriage? I am totally okay with the equal rights of it all, but [keeping from] calling it Marriage, is what I am trying to preserve. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and our most important job in that union, is to become parents. There is no other way to bear children other than between a man and a woman, and that’s why I am referring to homosexual relationships as an alternate lifestyle.
Again, there is no other option there, it is alternate. Hence leading to the reason why this alternative should not be defined as marriage. I am all for equality, [for] the right of every American citizen, but keeping marriage defined as between a man and a woman takes no rights away from same sex couples. And I believe that the definition of marriage should only be stated in its proper form.
That is my stand, and I will always stick to it. I will not ever try to push my opinion on others; everyone is entitled to their own. I am also for prop 8 for my children’s benefit. I am going to give you some links [that] I want you to look at and please read them with an open mind. You have to remember that there is always a ripple affect to any action. It’s like the laws of physics, to ever action [there] is an equal and or opposite reaction. If the proposition is shot down, and those that agree with that stance, will stop at nothing to make homosexuality a norm. It has already started to happen back east, and it makes it mandatory for same sex marriage to be taught in the schools.
In ways I can already see your rebuttal to this statement. That in no way, is beneficial to anyone. It doesn’t help kids learn about homosexuality in any way, because everyone to this point has learned about it, with no formal education on it. I want my kids to accept everyone for who they are and love them the same too, I however do not, and would not [want] them while in acceptation of them, agree with the things that they are doing. You can love someone unconditionally, and totally, 100% disagree with the choices they have made. Isn’t that the case with me being a [religion] church member?
I really do not want to argue with you on this anymore. I can’t state any clearer on [why] I feel the way I do. I love you [Brother], I will always accept you for the amazing and wonderful brother and person you have always been to me. With in the next few weeks we will know the outcome of all this, whether it goes pro or con, we will still love each other the same as we always have and nothing can ever change that. We both know that each of us are here for one another at the drop of a hat, and [that] we will always be able to say, yes, that’s my twin brother and I love him more than anything.
I love you [Brother].
Your other half always,
Understanding Same-Sex Marriage and its Affects on the Family...
- The Truth About Same-Sex Marriage, Equal Rights - And Your Children!
Proponents for same-sex marriage would have you believe that their cause is one of equal rights. Wrong. The ability of parents to teach their own children and generations to come - truth, will be greatly diluted if we accept such distortions. Tradit
- The Meaning of Marriage - It is Not Just a Relgious Concern
The discussion of protecting and promoting marriage is often dismissed as a merely religious issue. This tendency to restrict marriage to the realm of beliefs and present its value as no more than a matter of opinion is challenged...
- NARTH Home Page
We respect the right of all individuals to choose their own destiny. NARTH is a professional, scientific organization that offers hope to those who struggle with unwanted homosexuality.
- The Importance of Twin Studies
If one identical twin is homosexual, the other is usually not. This tells us that there is an environmental component to a homosexual orientation, and that gays and lesbians are not simply 'born that way.'
- Same-Sex Marriage is Now Legal in California -But it is NOT the Will of the People Who Voted!
In a move that should upset the majority of voters in the United States, who value traditional marriage, between one man and one woman only... the Supreme Court ruled on Thursday May 15, 2008 that a ban on gay marriage was unconstitutional.
- The Divine Institution of Marriage
The Church has a single, undeviating standard of sexual morality: intimate relations are proper only between a husband and a wife united in the bonds of matrimony.
Must Reads For Everyone - About The Importance of Marriage
Write-On! Acknowledgments, Requests and Last Words:
Thank you, to my dear friend, who allowed me to publish this very intimate and personal correspondence, between him, and his beloved identical twin brother. I am sure that after you, too, having read it... are deeply moved. There is no question, of the enduring love that exists, between these twin identical brothers; one gay - one straight.
I also need to make sure and state, that the photos that are used in this Hub, in no way imply that the persons pictured, are either gay or straight. These pictures are used under the terms of, Creative Commons. I thank the many talented photographers, who share their work with the community.
I understand, that all who read this Hub, about Identical Twin Brothers, One Gay - One Straight, may not necessarily agree on this issue. However, if you have found this information to be helpful and informative, I would request that you give this Hub, a BIG THUMBS-UP!
About comments: You are invited to share your respectful comments. However, all comments will be moderated, and aproved... before being posted.
This article is not to be copied and/or re-used without permission!
“In a nutshell, if you take pairs of identical twins in which one twin is homosexual, the identical co-twin is usually not homosexual. That means, given that identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. No-one is born gay". ~ Dr. Neil Whitehead
Proposition 8 in Plain English - What is Prop 8?
Please feel free to leave your respectful comments about Same-Sex Marriage...
freethinkin on February 16, 2012:
The straight brother is ILLOGICAL in thinking that his gay brother chooses to be gay just because they have the same genetics. Proof: 2 identical thins are born. One twin is interested in sports from an early age, the other twin is not. Ask them why, and the answer is "I was born this way."
Most, not all, gays I know say they they were born gay. I tend to believe them since they are the person having the experience.
Finally, the Bible has been changed so many times over the years that no one knows exactly what it originally said about anything. Spend 20 minutes on the web just searching and reading about this from Bible scholars who have spent years researching it and THEN tell me you believe it.
I only believe that Jesus said" Love one another". Now that is something to believe in !!! :)
Thanks for the discussion folks, all of you.
xethonxq on December 07, 2011:
This is a fantastic hub. I couldn't get enough as I was reading it and wished there was more from each brother. I, of course, totally side with the gay brother being that I'm a lesbian myself. I do not believe people choose a gay lifestyle...I believe we are born with it. I also don't know if I would ever want genetics to prove it because there will inevitably be some idiots out there that will choose not to have a child because they will be gay and some test told them that. Anyway...that's my two cents worth. Thank you for the hub Write On!