Nice guys usually finish last with women. In fact, when and if they do get the girl, it's after she has divorced or broken up with a typical "bad boy" and she's searching for Satan's (I mean Bad Boy's) polar opposite. It seems women have to suffer through a mountain high stack of "punks", "losers, "bad boys", and "jerks" before they get a clue the nice guys are waiting right in front of them.
The easiest way to tell whether a woman is ready for marriage and to settle down, is if she chooses and becomes attracted to nice guys. In the mean time, nice guys get trampled on in the dating world. First, because nice guys don't know the difference between good girls and bad girls, but he seems to have a radar for damsel's in distress, which usually sets him up for women with baggage, women who will use him, and/or women looking for a shoulder to cry on. These reasons alone are enough to discourage any guy.
Why do women pass up the nice guys?
1. Women know nice guys will wait around for them: Nice guys are nice and patient. They make good friends through thick and thin and even nurse a girl back to mental stability after the tirade of wrong guys continuously exit her life.
Nice guys are too patient and here's why that's bad. Most women like to shop and they like sales even better- sales bring in a stampede of women who want to get to an item that may only be available for a limited time. Bad boys are like a sale, take them or leave them, they have an attitude like "here's your one chance to have me" or else some other woman will snatch me up in a second. Just watch a popular item when it goes on sale- women will fight for it. Because it has perceived value if others want it.
2. Too good to be true mentality: Women have chosen guys who seem nice at first and treat them great initially, but they've also been the most hurt by these guys when they get fooled and the guy ends up being a jerk. In other words, true nice guys get the third degree when simply trying to give a woman compliments. Many bad boys disguise themselves as nice guys only to pull a trick on women so ultimately she will learn this and be extra cautious of a guy who is sweet and compliments her.
Women have a high level of distrust about a guy who seems too good to be true. Just be true to yourself and realize trust is earned. We all pay for the person before us when dating. Women begin generalizing ALL men are jerks and if a guy is going to be a jerk in the end, might as well take the hot bad boy in the corner of the bar smoking his cigarette and flirting with two other girls. Your mission, should you choose to accept, is gaining her trust and letting her see some of your faults early to let her know you are not perfect.
3. Does he like me? Nice guys seem to fall in love easily and this sends up red flags for many women. Women want to believe a guy likes her because she is who she is. If a guy falls for her seemingly easy, then it makes us think he would fall for anybody. I have known my fair share of nice guys who are in love with love- and not me.
4. Too much pressure: Nice guys give way too much and too soon- of themselves and even gifts, etc. The woman might misinterpret this as feeling like she will eventually owe him; emotionally, physically, monetarily. This is a lot of pressure. I once met a nice guy who did so much for me- thoughtful stuff and instead of enjoying it, my mind was racing with thoughts about "What if I don't like him as much as he likes me", "I don't want him to feel like he's wasting time and money on me if I can't reciprocate", " What are his expectations?", "I can't possibly give back to him what he's given to me"! You see all the dilemmas creeping up?
5. Nice can be interpreted as a girly trait: The law of attraction works like this; Women are most attracted to men who have manly traits, like strong, confident, aggressive (not overly), assured, etc. and men are most attracted to women with typical feminine characteristics like accommodating, sentimental, sensual, helpless (not in a bad way- just to open a jar sometimes).
Nice guys have a lot of the female characteristics, but it's not as attractive in a man. They appear too needy and pleasing when they reflect these traits. A woman, is not going to be attracted to a guy who possesses similar traits as her, hence opposites attract, and it won't be the nice guy she is attracted to.
TIPS FOR NICE GUYS
- Get confident- value yourself and show it. If you aren't convinced about your value, then she won't be either. Don't talk endlessly about your value, just show it in your presence.
- Get a gimmick- you must possess at least one trait on a woman's top 10 list of attractive traits; mainly sense of humor, adventurous, driven, responsible, honest. Dating is like fishing, luring a woman in with the appropriate bait and using it to your advantage. This doesn't make you a used car salesman, but rather someone who focuses on their valuable asset. You wouldn't focus on a non job related trait if you were at an interview, you determine what is valuable to the employer and use it.
- Don't need anyone else- even people who are madly in love, do not "need" each other. They will survive without each other as sad as it may be and they may strongly desire to be with the one they love, but need is too strong and too much pressure for any relationship. Need feels like control and can turn into an unhealthy co-dependant relationship. Many nice guys believe they get what they want if they are nice- this is a form of control and disastrous to relationships.
- Give a little, get a little- Make sure your efforts are being reciprocated. Don't get intoxicated by giving without evaluating whether you are getting anything in return. In dating, this balance should be equal, but in long-term relationships, it varies greatly. Bad boys get away with doing the bare minimum, and somehow they have women flocking to them.
- Set boundaries- if the girl says you two are friends then don't overstep those boundaries by picking up her dry cleaning, cooking her dinner, and bringing her little gifts. It's like having a friend with benefits, but probably no sex- she'll use you and you aren't even her boyfriend. Those tasks are boyfriend duties so back off and play the part of a friend ONLY. If you are doing everything she needs before you two are dating, then she won't need to date you.
- Pick nice girls- I know you nice guys are disgusted at how many nice girls pick bad boys, but you're no different. You seem to be attracted to the damsels in distress, which are women with too much baggage, completely unsettled in life, and need help of the professional type.
..and other lessons
In the field of psychology, experts will agree on certain aspects that make losers out of nice guys. These key aspects include:
- Not making their partner put more efforts into the relationship- relationships are give and take so require more and you may get more.
- Nice guys appear too available- aka, desperate. Get a life and don't drop everything to be with your date at the drop of a dime.
- Play hard to get. What is easy to come by is not a commodity...nobody wants it.
- Why Most of My Friends Are Guys
I just got off the phone with a good friend- a woman who wants me to give her advice about the guy she is dating. This phone call lasted 2 hours and about 20 more minutes of texting in addition after that....
- Topics You Should Avoid on a First Date
Because trial and error isn't the best way to approach dating, I have compiled a comprehensive list of topics you shouldn't talk about on a first date- perhaps the first few dates. Some general tips...
- Why Good Girls Love Bad Boys
Is a good girl attracted to a bad boy? Well did Eve take a bite of the apple in the garden of Eden? Yes. For opposites to attract it doesn't necessarily mean a yin to a yang or the "you complete me" cliche....
thereturn on August 19, 2015:
I will soon be a 37 year old virgin ever so slowly reaching the dreaded 40. I miss the original column on the real 40-year old virgins and the estimated 5000+ replies. The plight of the 30-year old virgins who can't afford to move out of their parents house due to poverty... is treated like something that doesn't exist by social media.
Gods Hammer on July 20, 2015:
I could tell you,there's a difference of NICE GUYS and CLUELESS guys..I was more of a Clueless guy throughout my teens and early 20's,because i wasn't interested in dating and i had a decent social circle and i was just mingling,not being serious with the few females i made out and i knew i was clueless, because i didn't know or had the guts to start a relationship.So the years went by and my social circle became smaller,smaller,smaller.Until my family started commenting about dating and when am i going to get married and all that good stuff.Now recently when i began dating i had no game and i played the Nice Guy game and that didn't get me anything and also i was hiding my confidence.I had a lesbian closet female friend,and she corrupt me in a way in my teenage years,what girls like or didn't like,but now after all this years,her advices were to leave me as a PUSSY and be of a servant.I think i got more action when i was teen,than now at my 30's..lol...
Now,i figured I'm not a NICE GUY and i embraced more my confidence.Right now,I'm not dating but my sex life is complete with a slightly older female friend..But Thank God i one day began googling, why NICE GUYS end up last and it opened my eyes,the game cards i was playing and i was no Mystery, but an all open book CLUELESS guy,that i gave in to females demands,requests and a doormat when deep inside i wanted to be me,but i had a fear i will lose my chance to be in a relationship if i sounded "Mean and not gentlemen" enough for her.Well, it didn't matter,i still got rejected or lefted on the "FRIENDZONED"....lol...Now,I'm a cruel jerk and i guess,i could be me and hope they love me for being me.. :)
abu yussif on July 20, 2015:
is beter you go for good friend than bad friends
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on September 15, 2014:
I think most of us can admit we're not who we REALLY are when we meet or first start dating. Most nice guys need to hold back a bit. As a woman who was deterred by nice guys, it was because I thought to myself...he doesn't even know me all that well and he wants to fulfill my every need. It didn't seem very genuine or special.
Nice guys may typically just be nice and that's fine, but a woman wants to know what distinguishes her from the rest of everyone else?
Good luck with your new tactic. I personally don't think there's any true method to find Mr. or Ms. Right. Several love gurus and dating websites make money off that mentality. But I also believe people can fall in love beyond initial attraction or lack of attraction at first. So perhaps average is best.
jonzer on September 05, 2014:
My advice is to pick a lady that is less than what you desire physically. I am 40 now and have found that I always tend to pick ladies that are above average looking. In general these woman will be more demanding of you and want you to be their sugar daddies. On top of this they will not be the types that are good for marriage, they will either cheat on you, or depress you to death with all their problems with the world and leave you feeling like crap. On the other hand, I wish I had explored relationships with girls that were really good girls, not so hot, but could have been long term keepers. I think as guys we are always trying to pick a nice looking girl that seems nice, instead of picking a average looking girl that is extra nice. Since I only have less than 10 years left before im 50, my last shop is looking for the average to less than average woman that is above average in long term prospects. After three failed long term relationships I'm sick and tired of pampering these girls who need me for nothing, but to be a sugar daddy. I need a real woman who wants a nice guy for the long run, that doesn't let little things get in the way to enjoying life. I hope my little bit of life advice helps some of you younger guys or gals out there.
Zachery Larios on July 27, 2014:
Your basically telling the guys who are nice guys to stop being who they are completely but it is impossible to change someone. Some guys like girls who have been in bad relationships so they can make them feel better because people like me love being the sunshine of peoples day especially the one they love.
ABE2288 on February 09, 2014:
Whatever the truth is out everyone is cheating both men and women and its clear that everyone is getting some action slutty men and women would shag both the nice person and the bad person. No-one gives a shit anymore porn has fucked everyone up!!
Mother Chuck on December 08, 2013:
I think a vast majority of ladies like to date bad boys when they are in there early 20s BUT once they reach their mid-late 20s they realize that these bad boys are not the ones you want if your looking for something meaningful, and most women want a meaningful relationship that leads to the promise land(Marriage) and women defiantly deserve and should be committed to by their spouse hands down. The sad part is a lot of younger ladies tend to lose trust after they realize that the bad boy was NOT the right man for her and this can really backfire on her because she will pass up good men and not even realize it, which will just open the doors for another bad boy to come into her world which will lead to another heartbreak and another and another. The best thing a women can do to avoid this from reoccurring over and over again is to trust her instincts and don't be afraid to tell the man your goals early on, because if it scares him then you know he's not ready for a meaningful relationship and you won't waste your time, and if it turns him on then you know he's ready to settle down and wants something meaningful out of his next relationship, as you age you become wiser and more direct.
Gods Hammer on August 20, 2013:
I've dumped a woman last week, she thought that I was going to be her Nice guy for duty service, until I put her on the spot and told her what I want and don't expect to have me with "Husband duties",like help her wash her Car, give her son ride home from school, mind you she's 27 and works.I was doing it,since in was getting to know her and I had told her, my kindness don't take her for granted, but as days continued,she frequent calling for favors/duties, even times I didn't answer or told her, I'm busy at work. Until 2 weeks ago, I had to put it in the table and asked her what she wanted from me, she said she starting slow with me and that I'm just a friend she appreciates, but I put my cards down and told her, it's fine if she just wants to be my friend, but to ease with the favors.She did slow down, I continued to see her,but like she put me as a friend, I continued to make advances on her, like trying to kiss her, hold her hand, but she was pushing me away. Since she entrusted me as a friend, I digged in her closet of secrets and found about her ex boyfriend (not father of her son),and that she has feelings for him still and she's open to date him again because he still calling (and screwing him,I saw a hickie on her neck ) prior to almost cutting all communication with her... Again she called me to ask for a favor and I told her, please call your ex boyfriend to help you out, since I saw that hickie on her neck, even though she tried to hide it from me, she got upset and an argument followed,but by then I told her to figure out what she wants, I know what I want, but I can't be here for her,to just stop calling me to ask for favors, that if she wants a real man to commit and love her, then call me if not, its o.k.,just don't want to be her Nice guy to rescue her from her obligations and problems...I just had to let her go, I felt bad, but I knew where this one was going to go. I just refuse to be there for her and don't get love or action.I'll invest my time on someone that will have interest in me. I hate hopes and dreams, either we are something or nothing and I don't want to have husband duties without some action in bed and be my woman. I understand, she didn't felt something for me, it's OK just know to move on.
Moses Jones on August 19, 2013:
LOL! @ "Men can read women from a mile away,"
Okay, some can, but we tend to misread. I can only speak for myself. In my experience we went for the "hot girl" and yet we wouldn't give the time of day to the not so hot girl who actually gave us the attention. At least that is the experience for me.
I have a reputation for being KIND. I don't like the word "nice" it sounds like someone is holding back. It's been done to death in my opinion. At the same time, a lot of nice guys are actually putting up a show just to get something from who they want it from.
Often times, it backfires. It is not that women see through that. It could be that something feels off. It could also be that they are juts not interested. Yet, we think that just because we are "nice" that we should get that person. Then we see them in the arms of the "jerk" who may just be not as nice.
Frustrated with that, what do we do? We whine that Girls do not like Nice Guys (TM), they like Jerks.
The real problem is different from that. We either go too far with the niceness and come off as weak, or we go for women that are out of our league.
...Okay, okay :D What I meant by that last statement is that we go for women who we are not compatible with. We go for those whose personalities do not mix right with ours. It has nothing to do with looks.
You can stop strangling me, now. :D
Now, I am not mean by any stretch of the imagination. Just don't mess with me. There is nothing wrong with being KIND. The key is to have a backbone. You have to stand up for yourself. You have to show that you have the confidence in yourself to please women and protect yourself, and her.
Confidence and strength are some of the traits that many women look for in a man. If they can't find it in a "Nice Guy", they will get it from the "jerk."
Gods Hammer on July 01, 2013:
To the author, I want to compliment and congratulate you for being very accurate and articulated information on the topic. As I'm writing this from a cell phone/Android phone, is very difficult to write and English is not my primarily language, I ask you bear with me.
I'll confirm I'm not an Alpha male, but a Beta.I have shared my wins and losses in the love Dept. To this day, I continue to be a Nice guy and for the last years,I'm the one that rejects woman or more like dump them,by my experiences, I've learned what positions to Not allow myself to set my foot in and I don't let beauty over ride me, I've dated alpha females to submissive to other beta females, I tend to get along with all females, except with alpha females it could get ugly. For power and control and I tend to attack her mentally and she could be of aggressive character to almost physical. (Which im stating,i dont date even cute petite alpha females..lol).I'm a very balanced male. Before,beauty will blind me and thought woman were all Saints and just innocence of this earth. UNTIL, ALLOWING some females to be true"platonic friends".......For all readers, Men and woman be advised, Once you put someone as a Friend Only, ad time passes by you really can't Undo this'd mindset. few two rare stories,you hear that a clean platonic friendship becomes a serious relationship. Men, if a woman puts you as a Nice guy to only be friends with, you you either accept it or move on.Don't expect to change her mind set. Also, Men tell her what you want from her.If she insist, she can't see you more then a friend,you need to move on or just accept plain friendship, which if she a hottie, you cannot resist or think, you cannot only see her as a friend, you need to learn to move on, so you won't waste both your time and so you won't develop feelings for.
YOU THINK, you lost completely the game with her on those few dates with her after you met her from a date website??..Not entirely. Now, after she lefted you as a "friend" zone because she didn't feel you right away or you have looks, but didn't spark it. This is what I call a "HAIL MARY",do or die.
Men do not be too avail able to her, do not frequently call her.Do not get too touchy or be too friendly. If you can,put a woman in a spot,where you could meet more of her female friend, associates and even family cousins/sisters.Be totally totally yourself. Either, she will get jealous or she could even help you get at her cousin or co worker. Still, be well behave, don't behave like a total douche bag at her family parties or get togethers.The point of this, it's for her to see how you do with other woman, to really see if she really put you as only as a friend. If she jealous, she will come fighting for you with other woman to dance with you(weddings/parties) or she helps you get with her cousin (She really meant to only want you as a friend). Also, you meeting other woman down the line. Men never turn down a woman's request to attend a family party,also ask if she invites you to social gatherings... Just plain dating for coffee and and dinner it's too much to be the tie breaker. Sometimes, social gatherings, where she put you as a friend, don't feel shy or embarrassed or pass up other opportunity if another woman takes interest in you or you coming to them, if she witnessing this, she could really see you're just not a good predictable guy. If a woman that you met 2 months ago and now put you in the friend zone, doesn't mean is game over. You still could rebound in what I call a HAIL MARY pass!... If you date her for coffee or meet her for dinner,obviously you cannot hit on the restaurant's waitress (very rude) to get her jealous. But after leaving behind in the nice guy friend list, well attending at a family event, well you never know who might be asking or showing interest for yah. Also, who better to ask for such guest, none other than her.
All you guys out there, nice or inexperience with woman. There's something about woman and jealousy. Sometimes with out you realizing it, she could start seeing you more than just a friend in a comfortable,fun,outgoing social setting. Like I stated, this is a hail Mary pass and you could have your entire final answer, if in this woman you really are a friend or could be more. If it didn't change a thing, you need to move on or remain as a friend. But remember, being and HOPE that by being a nice guy she will see you more or a chance-NEVERMIND!..After few dates, if a woman puts you in a friend zone, you need to change your game plan, if you want to salvage this. If you can't see her like a friend, honest to God you , you need to drop her,as much as you think she's so adorable and HOPE by being nice, that some miracle is going to happen. If you think, you have too many friends as it is, drop her.
P.S. Nice men,Never be too clingy or always worry for her or too sweet. Is OK to be nice, but never too available, is OK to miss her calls, is OK to tell her no, is OK for other female friends to answer your phone when she calls,. Also never give her too much explanations.Good luck out there. I couldn't sadly admit to you, is a mind game. Never lose your cool, be disrespectful,rude and pushy!
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on June 24, 2013:
Well I've learned GH, that you could probably have super manners, play the gentleman and still get ladies. If you think about it...nice guys and bad boys have something in common. Many bad boys act like they're gentleman but are actually a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Honestly when I was younger I liked a bad boy when it came to others..he wasn't afraid to fight or tell someone off, but he was nice to me. There is a difference there. I think women have a hard time being like that (aggressive...a little, in public or defending her, etc) so it's nice to have it in a man. If the guy is too nice then she might as well be with another she. There are distinct male traits women will always be attracted to. In our society, we've lost touch with differences in male and female traits and I sometimes believe women are choosing overly aggressive males because women have taken on some masculine traits themselves- competing with men, being in the workforce with men, etc.
Personally, I think passive aggressive is a female trait. Of course I don't like a guy who fights anymore now that I'm in my 30's (who wants the drama?) but a guy who can verbally defend her and himself is attractive. A guy who is straight forward is attractive too. I think that's one trait that bad boys have and some nice guys do not.
Gods Hammer on June 23, 2013:
Men without experience with woman the "Nice guy" card ,Is not the one to play at the table.I too fell for this after coming out of High School, not having any experience,being Nervous, showing my best character and habits just how Momma raised this young cub,ready to be a gentleman and rescuer of a sweet darling that needs her savior in this cruel world andIwanted to portrayed as Gallantly Noble Knight...... LoL...just setting yourself to be taken advantage by that precious little doll about to have you do her errands,her taxi driver, walking her dog, picking her grandam at the airport, etc. While she's provably still banging her ex or that one hot shot in the dorm.
Also, in this age, what can you woman say about aggressive and passive aggressive behavior?..Is it better to be rough straight forward or avoidance. Lately I've been hearing this and don't know if this another Nice Guy symptom of the"Passive aggressive" trait.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on June 23, 2013:
God's Hammer- The nice guy card is the wrong card to play. But if you act like the bad boy, you are more likely to get a bad girl. It probably is all luck.
I agree Hailey Adams, I happen to like ex bad boys. My husband was a bad boy in his younger years and luckily I met him in his 30's so he was very done with that life.
Gods Hammer on June 19, 2013:
I am a Nice guy here. In my heart I'm very self conscious and have empathy for others how they feel and their circumstances what ever they going through.But,As a Nice guy we have to be careful how we take things with .a woman and avoid being a push over or DESPERATE. I think Desperation is what kills a vibe and too much availability for a woman or concern for her what will leave you behind as a "platonic friend" status.Also, Men tend to be short sight and think just shgin with the first attractive woman that we meet where ever at work, clubs, bars, friend parties, etc. That she going to be our one to mate with. That is never going to be always the case.Men need to stop thinking with the little head down there.Is good to have attractive female as just friends. You never know if by her you meet your true etx.love to be future spouse.Just having Neutral friendship, other females begin to dig you, that sometimes even that friend becomes interested in you because, without realizing it you've just become a playboy just at her cousin's wedding,get together or party, etc....If you're a nice guy ,what opinions do you think your female friend could tell her other acquaintances and friends could she be saying about you??.. That other women start taking interest in you, all of a sudden this woman begin to start competing with one another over you. Sometimes your female friend could be in the mix, or just her cousin, niece, aunt, female co workers,etc. Start coming after you just at one particular event without you realizing it.... LoL...Men don't assume the world came to an end because one particular woman shot down your interest/advances and lefted you on the "Friend zone".I know majority of Men will hurt their own mind and confidence because of a particular woman didn't want you more than just a guy friend and grow bitter or you continue to meet more woman but with a short sight,when you have the perfect bait in front of you ,howto party with and meet other. woman. Men only see themselves and another guy friend as a wing man attempting to capture woman at a club. Why so many men won't consider a wing girl?. Trust me, you'll be more lucky and probably will get more numbers at the end of the night or your wing woman will have a chance of heart and value you as a mate and drops that "nice guy friend" status (which sadly, sometimes even a man could leave her only as a platonic friend as well)...
My point is Men. Is OK to be a nice man, just don't close your door on the first hot woman (in your taste) you come across in your life and assume she's going to sleep with you or become your girlfriend. Keep your options open and date more.Maintain your confidence level by not closing your doors to just that one particular girl, don't blow her phone constantly with calls/text for her well being or if she needs something (too available) because she will smell DESPERATION,DESPERATION is what kills the nice guy, not his good manners.trying too hard on one girl will kill your chances. Woman love Drama and evolve jealousy with other females. It's good to have good looking female friends because other woman check other woman out and they try to figure you out or compete for your attention. Sadly,it's a mind game to settle your score,either with that particular woman or someone from her pack that might have sincere interest in you (cousin, sister, co worker, school mate/colleague, etc.)..You just never know how your luck plays out
Hailey on June 18, 2013:
some women love to be treated as trash that why they choose bad boys, but good guys can give you much more then just brutal sex.
Gods Hammer on June 14, 2013:
Right or wrong, I can't say much on everyone's experience. But I think a lot of us Men that been rejected play the "Nice guy" card to play it safe and not scare her away, which it back fires if you don't play your other cards right.
To sI nk we Men tend to fall for that eye candy gurl and we are willing to play nice so we could be accepted in some way and hoping by the coming weeks or month we have a new girlfriend to show off and by the followings weeks we're
oping that we are in bed with her and a successful relationship.taa daah, Happily ever after story... That's so easy to dream. In our society, we tend to embrace so much sexuality to men, that has corrupted their mind that it makes them thirsty of desperation. I dunno if it's the nice guy that turns woman away from Men or she could smell the nice guy clingy desperation for acceptance thatjttuens her off....
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on April 30, 2013:
I'm attracted to honesty. I always say about my husband is you get what you see and that's hot! Now for the personal story here, tell her what you wrote here...when, and hopefully, you meet up. Consider her recent break up and acknowledge it and then say something like what you've written especially the regret...and you plan on making up for lost time.
Steve on April 08, 2013:
Izettl, Personal story
A young man in his late 20s meets a young women in her late 20s at a friends holiday party, they have several brief conversations BUT the man doesn't ask for her number or ask her out on a date, so the women decides he's NOT interested in her, and they go on with their lives.
However 2 hours later the man realizes he just missed a golden opportunity, and begins to go into deep regret. The man knows its going to be hard to get her number or even meet up with her again because she has already made up her mind about him (he wasn't interested in her) however the man is determined to show this young lady that he deeply regrets NOT asking her out on a date and he wants her to see his passion for her. However 15 months have passed since they met and their only source of connection is social media, so the man sends her an FB message BUT she doesn't respond (no surprise there since actions speak louder than words) however they share 5 mutual friends so the man decides he is going to meet up with one of their mutual friends (who he happens to be good friends with) and try to figure out a way he cross paths with this young women he so desires.
If you were in the young women's shoes what would you do if you crossed paths with this young man again and he asked you out on a date? Would you expect him to pursue you harder than normal since he deeply regrets not asking you out in the first place?
Note: during the 15 month span the young women dated a man for 10 months BUT she discovered that he was cheating on her, however they still talk BUT aren't a couple.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on April 05, 2013:
Steve, You have it backwards. Confidence is something women can read a mile away. Women, at least my friends and I, could tell if a man was really confident or not. It is a big turn off for a man to act like someone he is not so if a man i trying to "act" confident women can read that and get turned off. If a guy came up to me and said, "I'm usually shy but you inspired to come talk to you" then that would be genuinely refreshing . Actually I came into a store where a guy worked for months and finally he asked me out- I liked that it took him a while.
Confidence is a turn on for women- it may be easier for a guy to get somewhere with a woman...get in the door so to speak, but that's true for men too except replace confidence with body or a physical feature. It's not wrong that men are visually stimulated but can't blame women for finding certain things attractive about men. Not every woman has the perfect body or face but that doesn't make all of us defeated.
Steve on March 31, 2013:
I know I have said this in previous posts BUT I'm going to say it again, Men can read women from a mile away so confidence should NOT have anything to do with weather or not your interested in the man because any man can go up to a lady and play it all cool and confident BUT the real truth is he is anything but confident in himself. Most men who just randomly go up to ladies are players. The most important trait to look for in a man is his attitude towards women, because that says way more than anything else in terms of what type of person he truly is in life.
I know men will say things and then do something totally different just like women do as well so the key to building trust in a man is asking him his thoughts towards women and then seeing if his actions speak for his words.
Females must drop this huge attraction to a mans confidence because all that says to the man is that you are very insecure and have little if any self respect/esteem/worth. You ladies deserve to treated with respect and dignity. Men should cherish women because they make us better people and vise-verse. Keep the players out of the picture for both genders.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on March 21, 2013:
Steve~ I love Prince- great quote from his song Kiss. Anyway, I agree to some extent on chasing, but it may be a different definition than I see it. I would not sit back and laugh or view it as chasing in the first place. I never ever gave a man my number or asked for his- a combination of being old fashion and I believe it is partially what makes a man feel like a man. It also shows confidence when a man can approach a woman. PLaying games, while knowing you're playing games, is wrong.
Steve on March 20, 2013:
My brother was sharing a story with me and my wife about ladies in his past and the mind games. I firmly believe that ladies play these stupid idiotic mind games because they are so insecure, and lazy! They think the man should do all the chasing while she just lays back and laughs. Chasing is what you do on the playground in elementary school and in the gymnasium, not in adulthood. Act your age NOT your shoe size.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on October 29, 2012:
John~ I worded that wrong. What I'm saying is men NOT letting the woman know you are interested early enough in your encounter with her. The latter part of that comment is my point I wanted to make.
About the girls who go for dead-end non committing guys...well they're not much different than the guy that goes for the REALLY HOT chick instead of her decent looking friend who is SANE. Yes guys pick hot and psycho over sane and simple more often than not. Good girls often fall for bad boys because we/they are not in the mind-set of thinking about someone lying to them or being able to determine what is a lie- it is naïve but maybe just innocence too.
My story is this; I was very innocent and had some bad boys tell me some lies early on so when I passed up good guys it was mostly because I thought what they were saying was too good to be true too. After age 25 I thought all guys were liars. You have to realize women don't speak the male language so you guys may know what he's saying is a crock but women sometimes don't . Just like you don't know how to determine what women say is true or know if we really like you or not, etc.
John on October 24, 2012:
"I do find one thing true for many nice guys ...and a big turn-off, is letting the woman know you're interested. Too many wait too long before kissing her or showing real interest"
What on gods green earth are you saying by this quote? please explain because in my mind it contradicts itself. You ladies don't like it when a man shows you he is interested BUT yet you think they wait to long to show real interest like kissing you? that doesn't add up or make any sense if he doesn't kiss you after the first date its likely he is not really interested in any relationship with you, and you should just be friends. You got me real confused.
BTW I think Steve is dead on when it comes to how a vast majority of women or should I say girls see dating, relationships and marriages in today's world which is real sad. They think all the good guys are gone because they naively believe everything those badass boys tell them, what sense dose that make? those guys will never commit to one women and marry her, that's why they try to brain wash you into their own mind set, it isn't rocket science.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on October 10, 2012:
Not sure where you get your statistics from but I'll take your word for it. Well if I were a nice guy, I wouldn't settle for a bitchy girl- does that mean a nice guy is willing to marry a bitchy girl over the emotionally immature- geesh sounds like both are a bad bet. Why settle?
Men let others think for them too- I believe nice guys also fall for girls (for all the wrong reasons) based on their bodies, looks, and other Hollywood influences.
Could it just be opposites attract often? Nice guys may like the spark a bitchy woman creates and nice girls may like a rush the bad boys provide. If you saw my comments above you'd know I never picked a bad boy for the rush- I just wanted to help a lost soul. Nothing to do with letting others think for me.
Society is bit different now too...women want to have a little fun for years before getting married (at a late age) and yes I know many who had their fun and cant find a decent guy to settle down with. However I dont think there is a proven formula for finding someone to settle down with no matter how you may think you've got it all together.
I do find one thing true for many nice guys ...and a big turn-off, is letting the woman know you're interested. Too many wait too long before kissing her or showing real interest.
Steve on October 10, 2012:
izettl- there is a BIG reason why you likely see a lot of nice guys with bitchy girls, its because the nice girls are to dam stupid to realize that the nice guys are the ones they should be dating and marrying, the ratio number of nice guys to nice girls on the market, nice guys outnumber nice girls 2 to 1 so there are twice as many nice guys on the market than nice girls. Nice girls don't last long on the market because men can read women from a mile away, if she is a true nice adult lady she will be snatched up in a heart beat and if she is a nice girl BUT emotionally immature, she will be throwing herself at the players and avoiding the nice guys until she gets raped or abused and the realizes she screwed up BIG time and now the nice guys are not interested in her because she clearly doesn't make wise choices when it comes to romance, like most girls do. Only half of the nice girls on the market are marriage material the other half are not ready emotionally and most likely headed down the wrong path so they are basically no better than the bitchy girls that no man would want in his life, but sadly a lot of guys are left with these high maintenance drama queens or these flat out bitches. Marriage material girls are a rare deal these days because girls are so brain washed/dead when it comes to simple common sense in the world of romance. Men are NOT at fault for the women's stupidity when it comes to romance, you girls are the one's who naively said yes to the players because you thought you could change them and NO to the nice guys because they are boring, which is BS because only boring people get bored. Girls are their own worst enemy when it comes to finding true romance, because they can't think for themselves so they let others, often their jealous solo girlfriends and celebrities think for them and that makes about as much common sense as throwing gas on a burning fire. Girls need to grow the hell up and stop letting others think for them and think themselves, once they do that the nice guys will give them a shot because it's a BIG sign that she is emotionally mature.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on October 06, 2012:
I can't take all the credit, but I'll feel special.
mio cid from Uruguay on September 30, 2012:
My belief in human kindness is now restored. Thank you L.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on September 30, 2012:
Your first on list now Mio cid!
mio cid from Uruguay on September 30, 2012:
Ok, so nice guys finish first.Right?Than how come I was nice enough to immediately respond when you commented I had no thorough explanation of my views on your hub The psychology of voting and politics,and since then I've been anxiously waiting for weeks and you haven't even acknowledged my response?now I think nice guys finish last.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on September 23, 2012:
Steve~ sadly in my "naïve" experience I've known many nice guys who married bitchy women. Every time I see a nice guy, his wife is the "jerk". Nice guys also need to mature and pick nice girls. Nice guys run around stating they can't find any good girls, yet they go for all the wrong girls...many as I state in the article have a lot of baggage and damage otherwise known as "damsels in distress". Nice guys have some growing up to do as well- let's turn the tables and imagine that if nice guys desired nice girls then there would be no problems, but they desire bad girls or "broken" girls or "bad" girls.
I agree with you about parenting. It's a tough balance (I am mother to age 14, age 5, and 7 months). As I am learning, you must be somehwhat a friend because they will not talk to you about their life if you are not a friend. However, there must always be discipline of course. And no, parents today are not doing that. Mostly because I'd argue that parents today are not raising their own kids. Big feminist shift in society where women are no longer at home anymore- most parents are not the ones raising their kids. Depending on others to raise them, takes the parental control out of the equation. Kids get most of their knowledge from peers, teachers, and daycare workers (who are afraid to discipline for fear of legal ramifications). I am a stay-at-home-mom and stay-at-home-worker.
i have a couple other hubs on these topics (Strict parents raise better kids, What they do differently) and (The demise of guys).
Steve on September 23, 2012:
izettl- So stop being so naïve and believing everything you hear about how all men are cheaters or all the good men are taken. Men can read women from a mile away, and we know most ladies hate that because they naively think it makes them look easy which is so misleading, it actually makes you look more like a mature adult and NOT some brain washed child with no self respect/esteem/worth. A man with morals will NOT use a women's naïve mind set to take advantage of her and use her, he will just say you aren't ready for the real world of romance until you gain more self respect/esteem/worth, a player on the other hand will take full advantage of a naïve women's mind set by putting on a show for her the moment he meets her and they he will act all hard and cocky/confident to hind his insecurities because he knows the ladies naïve mind set will not catch what his insecurities. A player will never attempt to hit on a women who has self respect/esteem/worth because he knows she'll catch his show right from the start and she will never fall for him, were as a man of morals will always give a women who shows self esteem/respect/worth a shot at a date and possibly a long-term relationship because he can tell this lady is not just going to throw herself at any random man who talks to her, she will NOT take any garbage from the players she will only except a man who shows her respect and treats her with respect and value NOT like some jerk from the Hollywood movies and drama TV shows.
I will agree that a lot men who treat women like jerks do come from families with very little if any positive male role models, BUT don't try and tell me that women don't encourage their daughters to go for the popular man over the man of morals because that is that flat out false and we all know that. It's a shame on both men and women for not raising their kids in a strong moral way. I told my wife that when we have kids we will not be their friends we will be their parents and we will discipline our kids to fullest extent...something that is really lacking in today's families when it comes to parenting.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on September 17, 2012:
Steve~ let me guess what you meant by your fragmented comment. Ok I give up, what do you mean? No self-worth? Could be true at the time when I used to date and I was younger than about 25. I'm trying to speak for many women out there and why I know they fall for bad boys. You never known a woman to have low self-worth. Open up your eyes, they're everywhere.
Read my hub "The Demise of guys". It might help on understanding why women's low self-esteem occurs. Men aren't exactly standing up and being men anymore- lack of role models, lack of fathers around, etc. By the time a woman is 25 she's come across plenty of bad guys, not by her choice or lack of self esteem but because she is young and naïve and finds the good in even the worst guys and no one teaches a young girl how to pick a good guy. So a woman either learns fro mher mistakes or becomes victim to the same bad boys over and over again. Somebody taught those guys to behave badly and my guess was another man did. So shame on men...not necessarily women.
Steve on September 15, 2012:
izettl...You don't deserve it...a good man? do realize that says you have no self worth? What do you think that says to most men?
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on August 28, 2012:
Thanks for the comment Steve. Well honestly I was one of those girls that believed a guy was too good to be true- it can stem from low slef-esteem believing we don't deserve it. Also we've heard so many lies before from bad guys who pretended to be good that we cant tell the difference between bad ones and good ones.
Steve on August 25, 2012:
I can not tell you, how many times I've heard girls say "he's too good to be true" only to realize that he was a good as it gets BUT she missed out again. Girls are their own worst enemy when it comes to finding true romance because they are so insecure they can't even think for themselves, so they let others think for them...others being celebrities and their jealous so called girlfriends.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on July 12, 2012:
Joe~ Yes I couldn't agree more!
Joe on July 03, 2012:
Both women & men buy into Hollywood's stupidity!! guys think they have to be these big hard asses if they want to get a girls and girls think that all the good guys are taking so they have to settle for these players in hopes that they will change if they stay with them long enough...talk about low self-esteem on both sides. We must bring back family morals into the American family.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on June 26, 2012:
ACE~ I'm living proof of opposites attract. Why do you think nice girls get caught up with bad boys.
lol!! You said "Women buy into things much quicker than men do and of course they follow what they see in these drama tv shows and movies thinking its reality/normal when the real truth is that it's anything BUT reality, it's fictional entertainment and it will never work in the real world, and unfortunately most ladies fail to realize this until it's already too late"
WOMEN buy into Hollywood's views! And men don't. Tell me what body type men prefer and where did that stereotypical body type come from...Hollywood! Men succumb to Hollywood fiction too. After all that would prove your point about men copying the Hollywood bad boy movie roles men have. A little bit of contradiciton in your comment but I get your point.
ACE on June 24, 2012:
Opposites attract? yeah right...WRONG!!
These so called hard ass bad boys, who are really just a bunch of super insecure boys putting on a show for all the naïve and insecure girls they find, would not even exist if Hollywood would stop glamorizing their stupid immoral selfish behavior. Women buy into things much quicker than men do and of course they follow what they see in these drama tv shows and movies thinking its reality/normal when the real truth is that it's anything BUT reality, it's fictional entertainment and it will never work in the real world, and unfortunately most ladies fail to realize this until it's already too late and they have 500 kids or they have gone through 3 marriages before they hit the rip old age of 50. Girls are their own worst enemy when it comes to finding true romance period. I truly feel bad for these girls because I'm sure they have plenty to offer and would make good spouses & mothers BUT until they realize that TV & Hollywood drama is NOT reality these girls will never find a man who loves them for who they are as a person, I consider myself a good man who has always had that nice personality and I sure didn't wait around for those ladies who rejected me over and over again because they thought I wasn't manly enough for, I just went on and now they are coming back to me asking if I'm still interested a dating and perusing a relationship and my response is...I can't now because I'm happily married.
Let this bee a lesson for you ladies who think us good guys are just going to wait around for you while you get abused and raped by those insecure hard ass bad boys, we aren't waiting for anything we got lots to offer to that one special mature lady and the only person who is missing out is you ladies who are being brainwashed by all the stupidity you see in Hollywood...Grow Up!
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on April 04, 2012:
michael perry~ so many women are lied to by men that they do not trust a genuine nice guy or anything a guy says.
Ryan-Palmsy~ Women must know that when they break up with the bad guy, they have a nice guy to fall back on for support. I know, I've probably done it myself. I used to think I had to prove to people that bad boys weren't all bad. I've got nothing to prove anymore, but I wish women would go for the nice guys when they're young because when they're older they say all of the nice guys are taken. It won't be long til you're taken again. At 19, women aren't settling down til later in life so it may be a whil but you never know-that is the mystery of love.
Ryan Palmer from In a Galaxy far, far away on March 28, 2012:
I'd like to think of myself as a nice guy. A caring bloke willing to do anything for anyone should they need it, but I totally get this hub. It's so easy to be used by others for their own personal and moral gain.
Recently me and my ex-partner split up, and since then I have had numerous women contacting me, telling me all their problems and then saying the exact same line. "Why aren't there more guys like you around?"
But, what they mean to say is "Why don't I have more friends like you", because in reality, that's as far as they'd be willing to take it. They see how nice I am, then go for the dick, stood in the corner with the nice car Mummy and Daddy bought and the designer clothes, walking around like the world owes them something.
I'd also like to think that one day, when everyone settles down a girl would like a guy like me, someone honest and caring. But at the age of 19, I don't think that's going to happen just yet.
We shall see.
michael perry on February 14, 2012:
im balancing myself out now. im in military and its hard on the mind of someone my age either they are too tough or not tough enough. i used to be one of the do too mucher and not do enough nice guys. now i actively keep women i like at a certain level which works for some others oh well. but what gets on my nerves is that i am building myself up and all im interested in doing now is hanging out and being chill with people around me. most women seem paranoid and cant accept that i am not looking for a relationship or sex at this phase of my life. i dont need either so i choose not to pursue yet im not scared to talk to a women and or let her relax around me. im not gonna try anything. i dont want to say im a manist (same as feminist) but i will say that women frustrate me when they assume they know my intentions when i am pretty forward about what im doing and what i hope to gain from them.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on January 12, 2012:
you bring up a good point about nice guys and damsels in distress and nice girls saving the bad boy.
Katina Davenport on January 10, 2012:
My husband is such a nice and honest guy. Just as you stated in your hub I married my husband after a bad divorce. I couldn't be happier. Sometimes good women have the mindset to save the bad boy just like nice guys want to save the damsel in distress. Great hub!
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on January 03, 2012:
Windclimber~ When I was attracted to bad boys and had good guys as friends, I always knew they'd wait around for me. this was my number one reason they stayed on the back burner in my life and never got serious with them. Just trying to be honest.
Most of have been hurt several times, which even begins in childhood so we develop a pattern in our life of never really believing we deserve to be treated as nice as some of the nice girls or nice guys.
You bring up some great points and thanks for the comment.
Windclimber from my boat somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay on December 27, 2011:
izettl, when I read your hub I said Ah-ha! Thank you for explaining this phenomenon - I've never come across your #1 and #2 reasons for why women pass up nice guys. They make perfect sense!
More than once in my life I've gained the interest and long-term affection of attractive women, but also more than once I've been told (with the women having no intention of changing the status quo), "I wish my boyfriend / husband (!!) was more like you." Very, very confusing.
Also, I define "nice guy" the same as "nice girl" - someone who at least tries to treat other people with care and respect. When a woman "falls in love with being in love" or "smothers" a man, she's considered something like maybe a bit immature or inexperienced or something, but never "a nice girl." But guys are called "nice," and the term is confusing to us because the dictionary says that nice is good. And it's what our mothers taught us to be.
Lastly, I'll say it again: good explanation! It sure does seem like you know what you're talking about. I'll read some more of your hubs!
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on July 04, 2011:
Now that sounds like a good guy!
danielleantosz from Florida on June 29, 2011:
Very true! I found my perfect match in a "nice guy" who also wasn't a doormat. very difficult balance but he has it!
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on June 23, 2011:
THanks Cyclingfitness and good luck ;)
Liam Hallam from Nottingham UK on June 21, 2011:
Great hub, I suffer from 'nice guy syndrome' so i'll bear these in mind for future, voted up
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on June 10, 2011:
gmwilliams~ I love what your mother said. She is so right. I just think a woman believes she can change a man, but ends up compromising herself.
Grace Marguerite Williams from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York on June 10, 2011:
To izetti: Good hub. The last should be first and the first should be last. Good men always outclass bad boys. Good men are mature gentleman who knows how to treat and respect women. To paraphrase my mother: Good men get the wives and long-time girlfriends while bad guys have temporary liasons. Bad boys are a taste but who wants a taste when one wants a full course.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on February 18, 2011:
Thank you so much for stopping by.
wendy87 on February 18, 2011:
very true...voted up
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on February 16, 2011:
entourage_007 your'e a nice guy who isn't a pushover or domineering. THat's the best kind!
Stuart from Santa Barbara, CA on February 16, 2011:
You made some very good points, thank you for sharing. I consider myself a nice guy, but I also stand up for myself and I do not do too much too soon.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on December 02, 2010:
Thank you so much for your comment Itsthatsimple!
ItsThatSimple from Florida on December 01, 2010:
I love the comment about "nice-guy-syndrome" as well as the description. Being a nice guy doesn't entitle a man to be rude in expressing his opinions about women. This description doesn't fit a truly "nice-guy"
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on October 04, 2010:
"friends don't use friends". That's a good one Zellio. Yes, it's true men are also guilty of passing up nice girls because they are infatuated with a not-so-nice girl who has them under her spell. She may seem exciting with all the drama and you get noticed just by being next to her, but like you said, it's not worth it.
Zellio from Atlanta, GA on October 02, 2010:
One thing I would also add, is that if a woman gets tired of being treated like dirt, and comes your way, BACK THE HELL OFF! If they like being treated like dirt, starting a relationship with them would be like starting a relationship with Paris Hilton.
You may as well inject yourself with 10 million viruses.
Zellio from Atlanta, GA on October 02, 2010:
I like this hub. I would add a 7th tip:
There are alot of fish in the sea. If a girl wants to use you, find somebody else. Even if it's a friend.
Friends don't use friends.
If she is a true friend, it could easily evolve into something else. Not so much if she is using you for her own selfish needs.
Btw, I REALLY love this comment you made:
"You seem to be attracted to the damsels in distress, which are women with too much baggage, completely unsettled in life, and need help of the professional type."
LOL! This is so true...
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on July 09, 2009:
I guess some guys (Tommy Lee) have the balls (and maybe something else) to back up their bad boy attitude.
The Beautiful successful women who married him are not all that you say, because I hope no intelligent, decent woman would consider marrying a guy for the way he fills out his pants. If they did, then they deserve all his bad boy backlash.
Kelly Contrary from Kansas--if evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve on July 09, 2009:
Why did Heather and Pam marry Tommy Lee, a guy who looks like the poster child for Tattoo City? I couldn't understand why beautiful, successful women would hang out with a drug dealer. You explained it. I thought it was because Tommy had a 2 x 4 in his pants. My mistake.
Laura Izett-Irwin (author) from The Great Northwest on April 25, 2009:
Lita Sorensen~ yes, there is a middle ground- if you're lucky to find him (or her). I came upon several nice guy and bad boy types mostly when dating in my earlier (younger) experiences. If I could offer advice to either of these types of men- it would be to find a middle ground, but easier said than done.
These two polar opposite types exist in younger men (under 30) the most because, even for women, confidence tends to come with age and experience. Don't get me wrong, though, I have a couple bachelor guy friends in their thirties; one is a typical bad boy, the other a nice guy and neither have luck with long-term relationships.
I would say my husband is on middle ground because he is an ex bad boy turned good and decent, but still confident. Middle ground is possible for either of these types.
Leta S on April 24, 2009:
Hmm, Izzetl... I happened on your hub by accident. And I must say, isn't there something of a middle ground? Because I don't think the guys I've ever been with fit into either a bad boy or nice guy category. Maybe they are quote, quote, 'bad boys' in that they are goal oriented, confident, usually very good at what they do, etc., but they are usually also confident enough in themselves that they are pretty giving... And perish the thought that men prefer accomodating and sentimental, helpless women (caring is another thing & is a prerequisite for anyone). Agh! If so, I would definitely be at a loss--I find guys I've known like a strong woman--even if it leads to something like competition between us---but at least it's about reality.
I think its a good idea for all people to become confident--men and women. Usually that comes with a certain comfort level with yourself... And hard & honest work towards your goals. Always attractive.
Staci-Barbo7 from North Carolina on April 17, 2009:
Something I've noticed about "nice guys" is that they often seem to try too hard - and do too much - too soon. While many of us fantasize about "love at first sight," in reality we know that attachment takes time and shared experiences with one another. When a man gives every indication that he's formed an attachment to you too quickly after meeting you, it is a warning sign that he may not be emotionally healthy.
The same applies for women. When men see this trait in women - if it is pronounced - they view it as "neediness." For most men it is a red flag, as well.
kerryg from USA on April 17, 2009:
I would add (related to #4) that nice guys tend to suffer from "nice guy syndrome" too. I'm not personally attracted to bad boys (well, not enough to date one, anyway) but if I were, I wouldn't appreciate a "nice" guy informing me that "I could do better" and "why don't you date someone who respects you" and the like, as if I were a little girl who didn't know my own mind. That's not "respect," that's paternalism. Quite the opposite!