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What If Trump Was Right, and the Recount Shows a Rigged Election?

ME has spent most of his retirement from service to the United States studying, thinking, and writing about the country he served.

Trump vs Clinton ... Again!


What's It All About ...

ON NOV 22, 2016, THE NEW YORK MAGAZINE REPORTED THAT the Clinton campaign had been approached by a group of election lawyers and prominent computer scientists that there is something very suspicious in the Wisconsin (1%), Michigan (0.3%), and Pennsylvania (1.2%) voter results1. John Bonifaz and J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society, reported that their research shows Hillary Clinton received 7% less votes in precincts which had electronic voting machines than would be expected when compared to precincts which had optical machines.

Halderman has made it clear that there is NO evidence of hacking or any other manipulations to change the results. What he found were results that simply didn't make sense and they thought needed investigating so they called John Podesta, former chairman of the Clinton campaign, suggesting they file for a recount.

There is also this, which isn't connected to Halderman's group, from a website I would normally not pay attention to ... but they had proof;

"Three precincts in Outagamie County [WI] were each claiming that more people had voted in the presidential race than had voted at all. That’s not possible, of course. So after it became a minor online controversy, those precincts each revised their totals"

They also reported that when the totals were revised, Trump lost over 1,000 votes . That is 3.8% of the difference in vote total difference between Clinton and Trump! Add this to what Halderman found and other counties when similar problems as Outagamie, then Clinton might have a shot.

12/5/16: Philadelphia, which had the same issue as in Wisconsin, finished a local recount with disappointing results for Stien's effort; Clinton picked up only 5 votes and everybody else saw no changes.

1 Percentages are how much Trump beat (or is beating) Clinton by.

What Democrats Think

Luckily For Trump, Madison's Electoral College Was Rigged (or not)

Luckily For Trump, Madison's Electoral College Was Rigged (or not)

Voter Anomalies Does Not a Rigged Election Make

"I think I said that right," Halderman said, and as a statistician I agree, the kind of discrepancy he found between voting patterns using electronic machines and optical readers are not normal and certainly requires more investigation; BUT, it is not proof of a "Rigged" or "Hacked" election; not by a long-shot. To hack an electronic voting system is not impossible, but it verges on it.

There are ways that electronic devices can be accessed and controlled remotely, even when not connected directly to the Internet. But, to do it on the scale that it would take to result in the outcome Halderman et, al. has found requires a sophistication and coordination that boggles the mind. More likely, but still not probable, is that the voter registration was hacked into (already proven in Illinois and Arizona) and manipulated in the favor on one candidate or another. That, however, as its own problems ... why were the only rolls effected in precincts with electronic voting machines?

There are other ways, none quite as hard, the election could be rigged as well, but still requires a series of willing participants to subvert the system. The easiest, and this was done in several Republican controlled states, is to purge the registration list of voters from one Party or another; in this case the Democratic Party. Some of the states who did this were forced to reverse what they did by the courts, Yet this still has the issue of "why only in the precincts with electronic voting machines.

Should the Recounts Happen?

ABSOLUTELY, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THERE IS REASONABLE SUSPICION. Throw in the facts that Clinton is beating Trump by over 2,600.000 at the moment and that the margins of victory were extremely small, less than 1.3%. Then you have the additional facts that one of the candidates is complaining and that the recount is well funded. there is no reason not to go through with the recount, otherwise Donald Trumps victory will always be doubted by many and therefore delegitimizes his presidency.

Will Hillary Clinton become President with a recount? I don't think so. It might put Michigan in her column, if it isn't going that way already, for there is only 0.3% margin in Trump's favor there. With the imaginary Trump voters added in, it might even flip Wisconsin because that difference is a minuscule 1%. But to overcome a 1.3% margin in Pennsylvania is highly, highly unlikely.

Nevertheless, because of the legitimate questions asked by Halderman, without a recount Donald Trump's Presidency will forever remain under a darker cloud than it already is.

© 2016 Scott Belford


Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

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trump hired gary gordon and john pirich, election law "super attorneys".

whats he got to worry about? he won fair and square, right?

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

justin amash is my hero.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 29, 2016:

Democrat Congresses have frustrated Democratic presidents; though rarer, the same is true for Republicans. In fact it was only by force of will did Lincoln convince enough of his fellow Republicans to go along with the 13th Amendment; what would have been the Left-wing of the Republican Party (they were the liberals then) thought that the 13th didn't go far enough and refused to vote for it.

The House, Senate, and Presidency each have their own mind and it is this which stops a dictator in his or her tracks. It may happen that since they are the same Party that they agree, in principle, on certain policies does not a dictator make.

Take Trumps Trillion dollar infrastructure plan (actually it is a highly leveraged, hope-and-a-prayer $100 billion plan), it is highly unlikely the House will go along with it.

That said, I do agree with you that "the question now is just survival". Unless internecine fighting tears the Rs apart the conservative agenda they will pass will do great harm to America domestically and internationally.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

"hillary's lead in florida was mathematically impossible to surmount"

but it happened anyway.

this is so ridiculous as to be unreal.btw, i read an article, once, that said the reason karl rove was so sure romney would win and was so shocked he didnt is because they had rigged the election for romney, but were found out, and stopped.

they had more help this time. fake news, more sophisticated techniques (russia?).

whatevs. im lisrening now to radio story on all these fake sites in macedonia pumping out pro trump, anti hillary dimwit news. trump does his share too: obama and hillary founders of isis, 3 million illegals voted for hillary, etc. the prez elect!!!

oh well it is what it is.

the question now is just survival. before i cant say it anymore, i object.

i love what still remains of decent america.

i will never cosign this idiocy.

semper fi

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

umm, that wall between executive branches doesnt exist. the tea party has house, senate, prez and soon the supreme court. 32 states, to boot.

what would you call that? and its not what majority want, as evidenced by the huge lead in popular vote the democrat has. its rigging the system. 2010 and 2014, more people voted dem, but tea party took the seats. redistricting and the electoral bs is the control system in place now.

and, when i saw john kasich, as new speaker, bang the gavel and say, "we're in charge now, you dont HAVE a say"...i knew this was the new reality.

and it was. 6 years total repub domination. 2000-2006...and what happened? 8 years obama, total obstruction from them.

and if someone was to make a video of all the vile things trump said during this election season, it would make you sick.

and dont think he doesnt have his brownshirts. a black man was shot to death by 3 white supremacists...and no news. 62 yr old white man shoots and kills a black teenager....nothing. reports of hate crimes rising...not national attention. but of course, we are bombarded with news of the ohio killer. why is that? dont think too hard.

its going to be very grim here if trump gets in. and he represents 35% at best.

muslim americans are already gearing up for the worst. and yes, this is like hitler. a muslim registry? blaming muslims for all the terrorism. soon there will be internment camps. it has been brought up! and who will stop them? they have house, senate, prez and soon to be supreme court. who will stop them? abortion of the state again. and now this outrage: patreus as sec of state??? comey testified that what he did was much worse than hillary and her server...

but its ok for him? truth is, server never was an issue. they made it one to gaslight a democrat.

oh, and if ap or i called someone sweet cheeks and told them to take their thorazine, itd be a 3 month ban.

funny how all if you dont mind the rabid comments coming from the right.

youd think independents would diss them all equally, wouldnt you?

trump, inc. you want it, you got it.

i object, and will use republican obstruction as my guide.

and i promise to respect and speak of him in the same manner republicans respect and speak of prez obama.

and people of color, immigrants, muslims need to band together for protection.

the last gasp of white and male supremacy will be ugly on its way out.

Suzie from Carson City on November 28, 2016:

My Eso, Please, allow me to help? You may find it difficult to follow AP, quite simply because he has no line of "reasoning," whatsoever. He has only his tirades of ranting, raving, screeching, stomping his feet and pounding his fists.....sort of like....hmmmm...a lunatic? No wait, I mean, very much like Hitler. Yes, exactly, Hitler. Ever see the old films of dear Adolph as he stood before his throngs of oppressed, brainwashed "children?" He bellowed and literally spit as he got beet red in the face, pounded his fists & the veins bulged out of his the madman we all know he was.

And AP..of all things....LOL....compares Trump to Hitler? That is the most ironically hilarious blooper on this entire site. Oops, you goofed, AP. Look in the mirror. Better yet, check out your rabid comments.

As I have suggested a few times....a little calm, some rest, a good therapist and a dose or 2 of Thorzine and AP will be all set for a front row seat at the recount. BTW, sweet cheeks, there's an entire boatload of "individuals like fpherj48" who can see the obvious. Good God dude, take a breather.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 28, 2016:

MizB, the world would be a much better place had Gore been President. There would have been:

- No devastating Iraq War (yes, he would have gone into Afghanistan)

- No devastating tax cuts

- No Great Recession in 2008 because his economic policies would have listened to those raising alarm about the housing bubble.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 28, 2016:

AP, while I absolutely agree that Trump and Hitler have the same personality, the governments and social environment are entirely different.

Hitler had an actual Army, the Brown Shirts. Hitler was Appointed as Chancellor of Germany by its President. When the President died, Hitler's thugs eliminated his political opponents which allowed him to consolidate the Presidency and Chancellery together which made him dictator.

Trump has no army. We have a constitution that puts an iron wall between the Executive Branch and Legislative Branch (the Chancellery). Consequently, what Hitler did won't happen here.

BTW AP, I find it rather difficult to follow your line of reasoning with all your capitalization and emphases. Just sayin'

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 28, 2016:

Excellent comment People, very perceptive and thought provoking.

Mizbejabbers on November 28, 2016:

" evidence of hacking...but the votes just don't make sense...." What's that supposed to mean? As the old-timers used to say, "there's no such thing as a little bit pregnant." Either you is, or you ain't. I certainly want to see a recount. If it weren't for hanging chads, I would be in favor of going back to paper ballot. ME and the rest of you have pretty much said it all. Except, that is, some of us have never accepted the Bush appointment over Al Gore.

Larry Rankin from Oklahoma on November 28, 2016:

Very interesting.

Alternative Prime from > California on November 28, 2016:

Here's a VALID Question that must be asked ~ Would U now give ADOLF Hitler that one CHANCE to run America or do EVERYTHING within the Legal Limits to STOP him before he Assumed POWER & Control ?? That's the REAL QUESTION & I think we all know the REAL Answer ~

If the "Electoral COLLEGE" Commits "GROSS Negligence" by Voting for Trump on December 19, 2016, they will at the VERY Least be Endorsing a Dangerous Communist Sympathizer Facist & NAZI in Steve Bannon to Occpy OUR White HOUSE ~ Honestly, if U are not either one, how does that make U feel ??? Slightly QUEEZY, Uncomfortable & VERY Concerned ?? U should feel this way if you're a REAL American ~

Imagine that, the 2 most POWERFUL Slots in the WORLD Occupied by OUR Enemies who Exhibit HOSTILTY to the Average Citizen ~ It's an INSANE & Absolutely UNACCEPTABLE Notion to the MAJORITY of AMERICANs who REJECTED Trump and his LIEs via the Voting BOOTH ~ Voting Booths which could very well Uncomfortably REVEAL a "Hostile Communist Influence" in Trump's Favor once we begin the INVESTIGATION via RECOUNT ~

Mike Russo from Placentia California on November 28, 2016:

I think Trump has a very simplistic mind. If everything goes his way, he is happy. If it doesn't he will attack anybody and anything that he can to make it fair in his mind. Therefore, if there is a recount and it doesn't goes his way, he and his attack dogs, Kelly Ann Conway and Steve Bannon will come after who or what they think should be attacked. He is a master at dividing and conquering for his own benefit. He and his entire staff are like the Mafia running a protection racket.

He is not even president and yet, he has already walked back many of his promises and pledges, because he does not have a clue as to how entangled the government policies and laws are. If he becomes president, he will soon realize that there are international treaties that he can't break without it affecting the world's geopolitical systems.

I don't know what the outcome of all of this is going to be, but I watched Fareed Zakaria yesterday on CNN Global Public Square. His answer is to let Trump do his thing. If he does it right, then support him. If he does it wrong, then we as a nation have to do everything we can to stop him. Of course right and wrong are both relative, but common sense should prevail. But do the grass roots movements and the democratic party have enough power to stop him?...I don't know.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 28, 2016:

i see putin is meeting w bet america looks pliable, now....and people in france are worried that propoganda bots will influence their republican nominee is "going to fix things"....watching bloomberg news: european banks will do well in america w trumps deregulations....

we really really need to stop thinking in america terms. the world has plans for usa....and i dont like what i see coming.

plz watch video the argentinian collapse...blueprint

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 28, 2016:

yes, and now trump himself is claiming the only reason hillary won the popular vote is because millions of illegals voted. all the more reason to audit! in fact, possibly the whole thing?

trump calls us crybabies and kellyann says were a pack of losers.

*sigh*, have to change my twitter name again! now will have to be nasty dyke loser. characterizations courtesy trump campaign.

no matter if none of it changes, the mandate is clear.

and wed better find a way to make our elections crook-proof.

Shyron E Shenko from Texas on November 27, 2016:

Mike, this is really a sticky situation. trump said himself that the voting system is rigged, so I guess he knows.

Putin bragged about his aid in helping to elect trump with the negative ads on fb and who knows what else, he trump has dealings with many other countries. Not only that, trump says he will bring industry back to the US. Does that mean his own businesses? I doubt it.

Alternative Prime from > California on November 27, 2016:

I'm not sure WHY individuals like "fbherj48" are allowed to ATTACK & Rant n' RAVE about Members such as Yours Truly, but OKAY, if that's the way it is so be it, but someone really should EXPLAIN to her that "Espionage" is indeed a "Capitol CRIME" which is Punishable by DEATH, NOT my Opinion it's a "REAL Law" & Communists did indeed Commit Espionage on Trump's Behalf and when we get into the State RECOUNTs, don't be SURPRISED if we FIND Infiltration of VOTING Machines by Communists as well which could conceivably NULLIFY the Entire Presidential ELECTION ~

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 27, 2016:

a lot of talk on twitter that the gop will impeach him and put pence in there. and that would be worse!

but, like i said, it doesnt matter. its over, and maybe deserves to be.

now, the only focus is surviving.

and i sure wish i could get rid of all the foaming at the mouth republicans on here...must be nice to have the power to remove people at will.

which is another worry of mine....trump and his vengeful far will he take it?

kellyann conway pretty much said if hillary goes along with this recount, trump will get her one way or another...congress, fbi, etc.

i guess stein is off limits due to her relationship with putin?

and what of those brave reporters who speak out? will he harm them? and he could even scour the internet for just regular people who say things about far does a despot go?

its going to be brutal and savage time.

but, its been that way for far too many anyway.

maybe its our due.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 27, 2016:

Thank you for reading AND your compliments, fpherj48

Suzie from Carson City on November 27, 2016:

Esoteric...I commend you on your well-written hub. Your writing skills are superb. This is something I especially appreciate since sadly, there's an inordinate amount of cringe-worthy writing being slopped onto the pages of our beloved site.

What "if" Donald was right? The sole response I could possibly have for this is, "those who wish to know for certain, should go forward in full force to investigate thoroughly." I have no objections, nor should any fair-minded American.

Without following through and actually arriving at an official conclusion, we~~NONE of us~~can possibly know for certain. It follows that if this is not resolved it will be a huge question mark, bone of contention and thorn in the side of half of our nation. Personally, I don't wish for this to maintain a life of it's own for the next few hundred years!

AP......I can clearly see what is quite "official" as well as pathetic. "Punishable by death??!" Just as I predicted, you have officially gone off the deep end.

You have spent the better part of a year, screeching, yelling, ranting & raving like a bona-fide madman. Spewing out your views, opinions, lectures of venom & hate. I'm afraid before you can "see what happens," as you say, you will have frothed yourself into a coma with less than zero consciousness to celebrate. For the love of God, if you are that pathologically in love with and devoted to Hillary Clinton, perhaps you can buy a home next door to her and ogle and worship her from your bedroom window.

YOU desperately need to get a grip, AP. Your credibility is non-existent. Seek medical attention.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 27, 2016:

We will see, LoveMyChris and Alternate. But here are my predictions, which is probably as good as my certainty Hillary would win.

1. Trump will take a protectionist course, much to the delight of many naive people in both Parties and the detriment of American Society. Jobs WILL BE lost by rejection TPP

2. Trump will end up much more moderate in practice as to opposed the stupidity he spouted during his campaign.

3. Trump will keep about 10% of his promises

4. Trump will end up being reviled by conservatives, independents, and liberals alike

5. The House will come to a standstill with internecine warfare.

6. Trump's thin-skip will get America in deep doo-doo with most allies.

Alternative Prime from > California on November 27, 2016:

Americans are OUTRAGED at the FACT that Communist Russians Actively "HACKED" OUR Top Secret INFO during the ENTIRE Campaign in a Conserted Effort to "INLUENCE" Our Election in "Comrade Trumps" Favor, a CRIMINAL Offense Perpetrated Against "WE the PEOPLE" which is Punishable by Death ~

WHY on EARTH would they NEGLECT to "Hack" POLLING Stations" to Inflict "DIRECT Voter Manipulation" ?? ~ The EVIDENCE to Suggest "Tampering" is GROWING & YES, OUR Election may have been "Rigged", only in "Comrade Trumps" Favor, not Hillary's ~ His ENTIRE Campaign was based soley on LIEs, Deception & HATE ~ He FALSELY Accused his Opponents of Committing CRIMEs / Torts that he himslf ALREADY Perpetrated ~ UNBELIEVABLE ~ He Managed to BAMBOOZLE Many Hillbillies but not nearly enough to give him OUR Presidency ~ He's LOSING by about 2 MILLION Votes, the Electoral COLLEGE still needs to WEIGH-In & Statewide RECOUNTs are Commencing ~ Let's see what happens ~

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 27, 2016:

at this point, it wont matter. we have a one party gvt, lock stock n barrel. even if hillary did win, the tea party congress has nothing but misery planned for her.

its over.

america is done.

im now looking to see what comes of calexit either joining canada, or becoming part of a pacifica union.

i would love for all the democratic states to leave....trumpmerica would be broke. what with no one paying taxes and all.

but this pacifica union has peaked my interest.

there is no life to live for my kind here, being ruled by the christian confederacy. isnt 200 yrs fighting it enough?

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