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What If Trump Was Right, and the Recount Shows a Rigged Election?

ME has spent most of his retirement from service to the United States studying, thinking, and writing about the country he served.

Trump vs Clinton ... Again!


What's It All About ...

ON NOV 22, 2016, THE NEW YORK MAGAZINE REPORTED THAT the Clinton campaign had been approached by a group of election lawyers and prominent computer scientists that there is something very suspicious in the Wisconsin (1%), Michigan (0.3%), and Pennsylvania (1.2%) voter results1. John Bonifaz and J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society, reported that their research shows Hillary Clinton received 7% less votes in precincts which had electronic voting machines than would be expected when compared to precincts which had optical machines.

Halderman has made it clear that there is NO evidence of hacking or any other manipulations to change the results. What he found were results that simply didn't make sense and they thought needed investigating so they called John Podesta, former chairman of the Clinton campaign, suggesting they file for a recount.

There is also this, which isn't connected to Halderman's group, from a website I would normally not pay attention to ... but they had proof;

"Three precincts in Outagamie County [WI] were each claiming that more people had voted in the presidential race than had voted at all. That’s not possible, of course. So after it became a minor online controversy, those precincts each revised their totals"

They also reported that when the totals were revised, Trump lost over 1,000 votes . That is 3.8% of the difference in vote total difference between Clinton and Trump! Add this to what Halderman found and other counties when similar problems as Outagamie, then Clinton might have a shot.

12/5/16: Philadelphia, which had the same issue as in Wisconsin, finished a local recount with disappointing results for Stien's effort; Clinton picked up only 5 votes and everybody else saw no changes.

1 Percentages are how much Trump beat (or is beating) Clinton by.

What Democrats Think

Luckily For Trump, Madison's Electoral College Was Rigged (or not)

Luckily For Trump, Madison's Electoral College Was Rigged (or not)

Voter Anomalies Does Not a Rigged Election Make

"I think I said that right," Halderman said, and as a statistician I agree, the kind of discrepancy he found between voting patterns using electronic machines and optical readers are not normal and certainly requires more investigation; BUT, it is not proof of a "Rigged" or "Hacked" election; not by a long-shot. To hack an electronic voting system is not impossible, but it verges on it.

There are ways that electronic devices can be accessed and controlled remotely, even when not connected directly to the Internet. But, to do it on the scale that it would take to result in the outcome Halderman et, al. has found requires a sophistication and coordination that boggles the mind. More likely, but still not probable, is that the voter registration was hacked into (already proven in Illinois and Arizona) and manipulated in the favor on one candidate or another. That, however, as its own problems ... why were the only rolls effected in precincts with electronic voting machines?

There are other ways, none quite as hard, the election could be rigged as well, but still requires a series of willing participants to subvert the system. The easiest, and this was done in several Republican controlled states, is to purge the registration list of voters from one Party or another; in this case the Democratic Party. Some of the states who did this were forced to reverse what they did by the courts, Yet this still has the issue of "why only in the precincts with electronic voting machines.

Should the Recounts Happen?

ABSOLUTELY, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THERE IS REASONABLE SUSPICION. Throw in the facts that Clinton is beating Trump by over 2,600.000 at the moment and that the margins of victory were extremely small, less than 1.3%. Then you have the additional facts that one of the candidates is complaining and that the recount is well funded. there is no reason not to go through with the recount, otherwise Donald Trumps victory will always be doubted by many and therefore delegitimizes his presidency.

Will Hillary Clinton become President with a recount? I don't think so. It might put Michigan in her column, if it isn't going that way already, for there is only 0.3% margin in Trump's favor there. With the imaginary Trump voters added in, it might even flip Wisconsin because that difference is a minuscule 1%. But to overcome a 1.3% margin in Pennsylvania is highly, highly unlikely.

Nevertheless, because of the legitimate questions asked by Halderman, without a recount Donald Trump's Presidency will forever remain under a darker cloud than it already is.

© 2016 Scott Belford


Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

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trump hired gary gordon and john pirich, election law "super attorneys".

whats he got to worry about? he won fair and square, right?

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

justin amash is my hero.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 29, 2016:

Democrat Congresses have frustrated Democratic presidents; though rarer, the same is true for Republicans. In fact it was only by force of will did Lincoln convince enough of his fellow Republicans to go along with the 13th Amendment; what would have been the Left-wing of the Republican Party (they were the liberals then) thought that the 13th didn't go far enough and refused to vote for it.

The House, Senate, and Presidency each have their own mind and it is this which stops a dictator in his or her tracks. It may happen that since they are the same Party that they agree, in principle, on certain policies does not a dictator make.

Take Trumps Trillion dollar infrastructure plan (actually it is a highly leveraged, hope-and-a-prayer $100 billion plan), it is highly unlikely the House will go along with it.

That said, I do agree with you that "the question now is just survival". Unless internecine fighting tears the Rs apart the conservative agenda they will pass will do great harm to America domestically and internationally.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

"hillary's lead in florida was mathematically impossible to surmount"

but it happened anyway.

this is so ridiculous as to be unreal.btw, i read an article, once, that said the reason karl rove was so sure romney would win and was so shocked he didnt is because they had rigged the election for romney, but were found out, and stopped.

they had more help this time. fake news, more sophisticated techniques (russia?).

whatevs. im lisrening now to radio story on all these fake sites in macedonia pumping out pro trump, anti hillary dimwit news. trump does his share too: obama and hillary founders of isis, 3 million illegals voted for hillary, etc. the prez elect!!!

oh well it is what it is.

the question now is just survival. before i cant say it anymore, i object.

i love what still remains of decent america.

i will never cosign this idiocy.

semper fi

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on November 29, 2016:

umm, that wall between executive branches doesnt exist. the tea party has house, senate, prez and soon the supreme court. 32 states, to boot.

what would you call that? and its not what majority want, as evidenced by the huge lead in popular vote the democrat has. its rigging the system. 2010 and 2014, more people voted dem, but tea party took the seats. redistricting and the electoral bs is the control system in place now.

and, when i saw john kasich, as new speaker, bang the gavel and say, "we're in charge now, you dont HAVE a say"...i knew this was the new reality.

and it was. 6 years total repub domination. 2000-2006...and what happened? 8 years obama, total obstruction from them.

and if someone was to make a video of all the vile things trump said during this election season, it would make you sick.

and dont think he doesnt have his brownshirts. a black man was shot to death by 3 white supremacists...and no news. 62 yr old white man shoots and kills a black teenager....nothing. reports of hate crimes rising...not national attention. but of course, we are bombarded with news of the ohio killer. why is that? dont think too hard.

its going to be very grim here if trump gets in. and he represents 35% at best.

muslim americans are already gearing up for the worst. and yes, this is like hitler. a muslim registry? blaming muslims for all the terrorism. soon there will be internment camps. it has been brought up! and who will stop them? they have house, senate, prez and soon to be supreme court. who will stop them? abortion of the state again. and now this outrage: patreus as sec of state??? comey testified that what he did was much worse than hillary and her server...

but its ok for him? truth is, server never was an issue. they made it one to gaslight a democrat.

oh, and if ap or i called someone sweet cheeks and told them to take their thorazine, itd be a 3 month ban.

funny how all if you dont mind the rabid comments coming from the right.

youd think independents would diss them all equally, wouldnt you?

trump, inc. you want it, you got it.

i object, and will use republican obstruction as my guide.

and i promise to respect and speak of him in the same manner republicans respect and speak of prez obama.

and people of color, immigrants, muslims need to band together for protection.

the last gasp of white and male supremacy will be ugly on its way out.

Suzie from Carson City on November 28, 2016:

My Eso, Please, allow me to help? You may find it difficult to follow AP, quite simply because he has no line of "reasoning," whatsoever. He has only his tirades of ranting, raving, screeching, stomping his feet and pounding his fists.....sort of like....hmmmm...a lunatic? No wait, I mean, very much like Hitler. Yes, exactly, Hitler. Ever see the old films of dear Adolph as he stood before his throngs of oppressed, brainwashed "children?" He bellowed and literally spit as he got beet red in the face, pounded his fists & the veins bulged out of his the madman we all know he was.

And AP..of all things....LOL....compares Trump to Hitler? That is the most ironically hilarious blooper on this entire site. Oops, you goofed, AP. Look in the mirror. Better yet, check out your rabid comments.

As I have suggested a few times....a little calm, some rest, a good therapist and a dose or 2 of Thorzine and AP will be all set for a front row seat at the recount. BTW, sweet cheeks, there's an entire boatload of "individuals like fpherj48" who can see the obvious. Good God dude, take a breather.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 28, 2016:

MizB, the world would be a much better place had Gore been President. There would have been:

- No devastating Iraq War (yes, he would have gone into Afghanistan)

- No devastating tax cuts

- No Great Recession in 2008 because his economic policies would have listened to those raising alarm about the housing bubble.

Scott Belford (author) from Keystone Heights, FL on November 28, 2016: