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To Chemtrailers: Twenty Things You Don't Know

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Mt. Teide in Tenerife from Reina Sofia Airport

Mt. Teide in Tenerife from Reina Sofia Airport

1) You don't know that when a passenger plane's gas turbine fan jet engines burn their kerosine fuel, the MAIN exhaust product is STEAM.

Invisible exhaust steam freezing directly to ice crystals

Invisible exhaust steam freezing directly to ice crystals

2) You don't know that when that steam meets the atmosphere it freezes almost instantly to fine white crystals of ICE at -40 degrees.

3) You don't know that the atmosphere it meets is the STRATOSPHERE which doesn't share the properties of or even mix with the TROPOSPHERE, which you live in and are familiar with.

Moon - Stratosphere - Troposphere

Moon - Stratosphere - Troposphere

4) You don't know that the stratosphere is LAYERED with INVISIBLE air layers with different origins and humidities, meaning that aircraft at one level may leave a persistent trail, while another at a different level will not. Also, because the layers are not necessarily horizontal, a trail-laying aircraft may fly out of a wet layer and into a dry layer, and the trail may stop. Or vice versa. Or it may produce a "dashed" trail by flying through layer ripples.

5) You don't know that the stratosphere's capacity to absorb ICE as WATER VAPOR is on occasion ZERO, and sometimes it will even DUMP MORE ICE into the trail.

Boeing 747 Jumbo Jet in supersaturated air

Boeing 747 Jumbo Jet in supersaturated air

How much ice can be made in a contrail?

A four-engine Boeing 747 Jumbo jet produces initially fifty grams of ice for every metre of forward travel. In a supersaturated layer this amount may increase by a factor of one thousand to ten thousand times.

The contrail density in such conditions has been measured at 16 Kilograms of ice per metre of forward travel.

This means that on a 5000 Km transcontinental flight the jumbo may precipitate 80,000 tons of ice into the stratosphere.

It is no wonder that, over the hours of a day, air travel can turn skies white.

a jumbo in supersaturated flight...

Kerosine + Air -  Nitrogen + Steam + Carbon Dioxide

Kerosine + Air - Nitrogen + Steam + Carbon Dioxide

6) You don't know that air travel has increased 500% since the end of the eighties, by fifty times since the mid-fifties.

7) You don't know that three hundred million tons of kerosine are burnt in the skies each year by aviation, which means the stratosphere has to accept a MILLION ADDITIONALTONS OF ICE EACH DAY...

Airport tank farm

Airport tank farm

8) You don't know that any ice that doesn't fall as rain ACCUMULATES as WATER VAPOR in the stratosphere, making the next day WETTER and more saturated.

9) You don't know that a supersaturated stratospheric layer will produce a trail (quite often with "rainbow" effects) from the whole airframe - even if the engines were off. It's called an aerodynamic contrail.

Supersaturated air dumping diffracting ice crystals in airframe turbulence

Supersaturated air dumping diffracting ice crystals in airframe turbulence

Scroll to Continue

10) You don't know that colored effects, rainbow effects, rings and halos are only produced by PURE water ice. Dust or chemicals prevent crystal formation and cause such effects to disappear.

Halo simulation of Sun with a 22 degrees halo, sundogs, tangent arc and sun pillar

Halo simulation of Sun with a 22 degrees halo, sundogs, tangent arc and sun pillar

11) You don't know that aircraft first turned skies totally white in 1943, with 1000-bomber B17 Flying Fortress bombing raids at 27,000ft over Nazi Germany.

B-17 Flying Fortresses over Germany with defending P-51 Mustangs circling above

B-17 Flying Fortresses over Germany with defending P-51 Mustangs circling above

12) You don't know that DUSTS CANNOT PASS THROUGH ENGINES: the injectors and control valves are protected by full-flow low-micron FILTERS.

13) You don't know that aircraft wings are PACKED with spars, tanks and control equipment, built by civilian businesses down to a tight specification and a minimum price, riveted, glued, and SEALED. They would NEVER include additional POISON SPRAY EQUIPMENT.

Airbus wing being led to Final Assembly

Airbus wing being led to Final Assembly

14) You don't know that "white and unmarked" high-altitude aircraft are the consequence of BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING as, for instance, is the absence of the shadow side of a half Moon in daylight. ALL aircraft look "white and unmarked" - except for matt black aircraft, which BECOME INVISIBLE.

The Bell X-15 - invisible from the ground

The Bell X-15 - invisible from the ground

15) You don't know that CROSSES, GRIDS, AND CIRCLES of trails are the product of normal aviation (shuttle flights, circuits, beacons), partly because you don't know that the stratosphere frequently has a high overland speed, also because on cloudy days or clear days with no trails you don't see the shuttle aircraft at all.


16) You don't know that local weather modification (by firework rockets or light aircraft) bears NO RELATIONSHIP to GLOBAL CLIMATE MODIFICATION, which has NEVER BEEN DONE.

17) You don't know that if GLOBAL CLIMATE MODIFICATION were to be done, it wouldn't be done using aircraft, as that's LOGISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE (the area of the Earth is FIFTY TIMES GREATER than the area of the US).

18) You don't know that the ALUMINUM found in rainwater is simply arable dust (clay is aluminum silicate) and the levels found in such tests have NEVER been poisonous (but frequently LIED about).

19) You don't know (because no-one has told you, and you never bothered to check for yourself) that professional authorities have been publishing scientific findings about aircraft contrails at regular intervals since 1953.

20) You don't know that "Look up, and use your eyes" guarantees the factual accuracy of NOTHING. If you "use your eyes" and watch the Sun through the day, you'll see it RISE in the EAST and SET in the WEST. Would it be accurate to say the Sun goes round the Earth?


Seeing that there are at least TWENTY facts about CONTRAILS that YOU DON'T KNOW, isn't it rather FOOLISH, WRONG, LIBELLOUS, and IMMORAL of you to imply that hard-working intelligent capable (and innocent) professional people YOU DON'T KNOW, are ATTEMPTING INDISCRIMINATE HOMICIDE?

Educate yourself. Study atmospheric physics until you understand that "up there", there are only contrails. And put your mind to rest about that.

But also learn about the true dangers that today's industrialized society has unwittingly created by adulterating your foods, mechanizing your agriculture, contaminating your air with photochemical smogs, particulate metals, abrasives and pollens, and your groundwater with industrial and agricultural leachants.

Learn to understand that combinatorial effects of these REAL dangers account for all the respiratory and skin diseases (and other problems) you formerly attributed to "chemtrails" and then keep campaigning politically to remove these dangers until they are GONE.

"When you blame others, you give up your power to change."

Jefferson was well aware of the tyranny of ignorance, lies and deceit...

Jefferson was well aware of the tyranny of ignorance, lies and deceit...

I have been interested in aviation for fifty-seven years.

This interest has prompted me to study, build and design flying machines, lecture on rocket propulsion principles, study, train and qualify as an aero-engineer, test engines in test bays, construct a wind tunnel, a hang glider and a catamaran, and invent an electrically-powered canard glider.

All these activities are included within my first area of study - physics. This topic is what all my activities are really based on.

For those of you that KNOW there's MORE than twenty things you don't know about contrails and atmospheric physics, I recommend you visit my blogsite below:


Sam on April 03, 2020:

Mike c they tested lake shastanot sludge on the bottom of the pond and Shasta had 60,000 times the level of aluminum that it was supposed to have according to the EPA

Thomas Reed on September 14, 2015:

#12 Nothing can pass through the fuel lines because of the filters. So nothing can be injected into the engines through the fuel system. At 1000 to 5000 pph fuel flow, it wouldn't take long to completely plug up the filters. However all kinds of junk passes through the engines. There are no air intake filters. The only air that is filtered is bleed air, taken from the 13th stage compressor. After going through the primary and secondary coolers the Air cycle machine and the and the air turbine motor, there is a colessor bag but really isn't meant to filter out micro particles.

Kyle on July 02, 2015:

Thanks, Tony - I often refer to this well written concise article. Hope all´s well. Kyle

A on May 26, 2015:

How much did you get payed to write this?

Don Hosta on April 16, 2015:

Great article, Jazzroc. Straightforward, yet information-heavy. Thanks for that.

Charmaine, I'm afraid you are mistaken. Your "simple fact" isn't so. Contrails can last for many hours, just like clouds. There are no such thing as chemtrails.

Charmaine on March 29, 2015:

Although much of what is stated here about contrails is correct. They omit telling you that contrails dissipate within a few minutes of being formed. Contrails on the other hand don't, and linger for up to 1-3 hours. This simple fact will tell you very quickly whether you are looking at a contrail or a chemtrail.

altruistica on October 31, 2014:


I don't know who you are, but you start off by being an expert in atmospheric conditions and sounding very knowledgeable about science etc. But sadly you shoot yourself in the foot when you then mention 911.

I've done a hell of a lot of research around 911 and you're still trying to tell me that three buildings fall at free-fall speed because of collapse?

You sir, are a joke. Well not you're not. You're a paid government shill. You must be, because there a very few people I know (and I know a few smart people) that would profess to be as knowledgeable across the board of a range of subjects.

I'm not writing this for you to agree with me or disagree. Your 'mind' is made up by the monthly salary that is paid into your account. My mind is made up from the thousands of hours over the last ten years that I have devoted reading research papers etc, I would add without an ounce of recognised qualifications in the subjects of architecture, chemical science or physics. But you don't need any of these really when there's a f****ing big white elephant in the room holding a smoking gun. All you have to do is open your eyes and smell the air. I'm writing this for all the newbie 'conspiracy theorists' who may stumble onto your blog thinking that they've come across impartial evidence.

Do you ever dream of the sins you've committed in your lifetime? Well dwell on the fact, that there will come a time when you won't wake the next time you fall asleep....that my friend awaits us all.

Ben on July 14, 2014:

You are a complete!

TColes on June 11, 2013:

Well Done.... It still amazes me that people use You Tube for their education.

CornyBeef on April 15, 2013:

Like most big conspiracies, the chem-trail claim doesn't hold up when one considers the logistics of such an operation. Perhaps it all seems plausible to the unscientific and the Hollywood-educated, but the chem-trail conspiracy couldn't happen in real life. It would take tens of thousands of people working to pull it off, employees in factories making the chemicals, truckers transporting them to airports, others loading them into the planes, pilots to fly them, analysts to record and review the results etc. etc. And even though the chemicals are supposedly being sprayed over the very cities in which all these people and their families live, none of them come forward? None of them try to stop it?

I imagine if you live in America where the defense budget is greater than the next ten highest countries' defense budgets combined, anything might seem possible. So try to look beyond your borders. Up here in Canada where our "air force" is primarily known for a squadron of flight trainers called the Snowbirds (no offense meant to the pilots who are simply working with what they've been given), such a conspiracy is SO improbable that only the nuttiest of nutbars could take it seriously. And no, we would not allow a foreign country, even our good friends to the south, to fly over our country casually dumping chemicals on us. Yes, gullible ones, I can guess at your response - "your government is in on it!" No, our government isn't particularly good at keeping secrets, nor is our country rife with ultra-secret defense groups that operate beyond government oversight. And yet, every day over any part of our great land, you can see contrails, provided the atmospheric conditions are right.

Now consider all the other countries throughout the world where contrails are regularly seen. Many are not close allies with the US like Canada is and some are even not particularly pro-American. Would they allow the US to fly through their sovereign airspace dumping chemicals on them? Governments change all the time - have ALL the people from past and present governments from ALL the countries in the world bought into the chem-trail plot, agreeing to carry the "secret" to their graves? Or have they all been duped and somehow only chem-trail believers know the truth?

Elizabeth Barrett Kearney from Maine on February 09, 2013:

Thank you for this, I am glad to see another side of the story. As for those on here saying "where are your fact, blah blah," well, there are more facts and scientific evidence reported here than I have ever seen on any of the articles claming that they are chemtrails...

guy on May 07, 2012:

sry to burst the bubble but chemtrails are admitted by geoengineering scientists

they are in actuallity using barium as a radiation absorption tool in order to prevent leaking of solar rays .

evelyn on April 09, 2012:

thank you for this, jazzrock

FEAR= false evidence appearing real

EyePirate on March 05, 2012:

Chemtrails are real - look at these two images and see the transformation of the sky in less than 2 hours, once planes left chemical Trails in the sky.

Lou on February 28, 2012:

If you look at what happens after they spray thats all the evidence you need to see that they ar enot CONTRAILS !!! If you look at your argument you will say that contrails disaoppear. These trails expand and radiate and do not go away but cover large swaths of air space and where there is blue clear skies they are spraying and why do planes fly staright upwards spraying their so called contrails when they supposedley have human populations on board. and why do they checker the sky and why do people get Morgellons diseases and why why why does the Govt feel it necessary to do this, THE NEW WORLD ORDER

Louis on February 08, 2012:

Awesome blog. I am going to post a link to it whenever people post their nonsense about "chemtrails." Thanks for using your brain.

scientific methods on November 11, 2011:

And I'll be damn. Nasa is right. No contrails in my sky today. To those who may still not believe. Check the barometric pressure, check the humidity, get the temperature. There are formulas you can plug that data in(there are obviously more factors that what I listed)and it will accurately determine if jets will produce those clouds.. I've been driving myself crazy about this crap for months. Thank God, I finally figured it out. The sad thing is I have a degree in Physics. In the back of my head, I've been thinking it had to do with atmospheric conditions...but, I guess in the back of my head, I'm just conspiratorial....maybe b/c it's just fun. I'll have to find another conspiracy now. I do like the alien thing. Hey Jazroc. What about aliens!! haha

scientific method on November 11, 2011:

This website is the official Nase website. Based on the current atmospheric conditions in real time, it can predict when and where contrails will form. So it's either a chem trail predictor, or a contrail predictor. Based on several different factors, they can figure it out. Wow. So that means, that those evil chemtrail pilots only fly in the sky if those same atmospheric conditions are met. Well. I guess I'll just use my brain.

bullet on May 25, 2011:

what i do know is that everyone has an opinion, so congrats on having an opinion but you do know that it doesn't make it fact though don't you ?

MikeC on March 31, 2011:

Yes tugbo we've all seen "What in the World are thet Spraying", and wonder why anyone with a smidgen of awareness of what contrails actually are would possibly give it any dcredenc.

The only factual bit of information in it is aluminium levels. They say the levels they tested are high for wdater...and they are right - those levels would be high for water.

BUT THEY WEREN'T TESTING WATER!!!!!!...they were testing sludge from the bottom of a pond. Which is the aluminum levels found were LOW for dirt.

The rest of it is the usual sort of unsubstantiated assertions we are all used to (just like Cali's little outburst - SHE says there are only 2 possible options for who JR is, therefore it must be true....sigh.....)

and apparently that is supposed to prove chemtrails.

tugbo200-5 on February 03, 2011:

How can anyone take what you say as gospel.

I urge anyone reading this article to watch

7 parts----these are not conspiracy theorist these are scientist, doctors ,chemist very good at what they present and very surprising at what is revealed,I don't know all the facts but it sure gets to the real truth,not like this Hub

Cali on January 13, 2011:

Are You a Government agent? Its either that or a highly intelligent dumbshit. Your one of the two. There are no other choices. PS either way, Your a smart fool. Heavy on the Fool. It would make a better hat rack Bro

MikeC on December 16, 2010:

David there is a plethora of information on the web about the formation and persistance of contrails - for example the writings of


these 2 rather long articles/books detail mention of contrails from 1918 to 1945, including multiple references to them spreading, forming clouds, persisting for hours, at ground level from motorbikes etc. - virtually everything the chemtrail hoax says can't happen is documented as having happened prior to 1945!

You mention "spraying to produce rain" - cloud seeing is not "chemtrails" - something I would have expected you to know given your claimed expertise in that area - you do not "spray" silver iodide at 30,000 feet on a nice "clear" day to make rain!

Nor has the existance cloud seeding ever been much of a secret - although of cours some attempts to use it militarily have been - not that it did them much good.

In short, if you have evidence that chemtrails exist then by all means post it - it will stand or fall on its accuracy and proveability, whether you or anyone else has letters after their name.

So stop beating your chest - front up with the evidence or show where JazzRock got it wrong!

David on December 16, 2010:

So besides having an interest in aviation and some other non-related occupations, what makes you a contrial or chemtrail expert or authority. What are your credentials in such field of study. In fact, I think my experience, employment and direct oversite of such weather-interference studies from spraying to produce rain in 1983, 84, 85 and 86 and other studies in which I have been a part of with a major Westcoast company who does have an interest in the weather control and global warming prevention who beg to differ. By the way, I will reveal my sources if you dare to reveal yours.

tryblinking on December 12, 2010:

"You Don'y Know" - These are things which most 'chamtrailers' Don't know. As this list addresses each of the tenets that the 'chemtrail' theory is built on, I can guarantee that there will be at least one (usually many more) of these points every chemtrailer is unaware of. In short, if thy knew ALL of these points, clearly they would no longer be chemtrailer-trash™, at whom this article is explicitly aimed. It is also interesting that you claim to have foreknowledge of all these simple points, yet you cannot even spell. If we're lucky, next time you might re-read before posting, helping to remove any spelling errors, or even some false premises. Of course if we were being really lucky, you wouldn't post at all.

"Joe" - is this your first look into the topic? Evidently it must be, as the misread, mistaken, misinterpreted and oft misquoted lab test results have been previously discussed/debunked in depth across the web. Previously reputable news agencies have since discovered these mistakes and issued apologies for using this faulty evidence alone to fuel their investigation into what is now clearly a non-existent phenomena.

To be 'disinformation' the information must be incorrect. If you have any evidence as to where these obvious scientific errors are, please provide it. Otherwise, all these points are verifiable, and congruent with current laws of math and physics, existing scientific theory, and supporting experimental evidence. By definition, they must be truthful, factual, and simply actual 'information'.

"William" - Each and every one of these 'twenty things' is based on verifiable, public, widely understood, scientific facts. You don't have to believe me, or Jazzroc, though. You are as free as any member of the public to go to your local library (or indeed any of the other thousands upon thousands of public libraries around the globe) and pick up basic textbooks on aviation and meteorology. From these, and many other reputable scientific sources, you too can learn the background and evidentiary support for these Facts for yourself. Also, you might want a dictionary to look up the meaning of 'hearsay', and its antonym for future reference.

William on December 10, 2010:

There are no facts in this blog. It is all hearsay. I would suggest Jazzroc pull his head from his arse and find out the truth.

Joe on December 08, 2010:

This guy is uninformed. Where did the aluminum and barium in the lakes of Mount Shasta come from? This report is disinformation.

MikeC on November 17, 2010:

Anyone got any idea what ElBeaver is talking about?

You Don'y Know on November 10, 2010:

Very informative and VERY IRRITATING.

"You don't know..." how irritating it was to try to read each item starting with YOU DON"T KNOW.

both intelligent and STUPID!

ElBeaver on October 31, 2010:, now that it has been admitted, that it was a pact to influence the wether (amongst other things).

What is your reaction to this?

Speed44 on August 03, 2010:

Thank you JazzRoc. It's great to read this page and send it to my delusional, paranoid brother. I am pretty sure it won't get through to him, but I still can hope, can't I? Thanks again, and keep fighting the good fight.

JazzRoc on April 10, 2010:

Well, it's been six months now and no response.

Not that I expected her back.

Her site never acknowledges me. My comment is censored.

JazzRoc on October 27, 2009:

Hello, Carol.

As far as I can see, I am now visited by a member of the very same "evil clique".

The sort of behaviour (blocking) that your clique endorses you'll notice isn't employed here.

So explain yourself. How IS your paranoia these days?

carole pellatt on October 27, 2009:

This is the stupidest argument I ever heard.

JazzRoc on August 20, 2009:

"But by the time I finished your last sentence above, I was a little sickened by the arrrogant, insulting tone with which you treat people posting comments."


There isn't a single word of it I would change. In fact I'll repeat them: "You are dealing with effects beyond your comprehension.

Science is the study of such effects. Study science, and desist from telling me about science until you understand more than I do."

That's perfectly correct. Especially when challenged with: "so dont post animated rubbish like that" and a few pilot opinions.

All the reports have been produced by qualified engineers and analysts. They are far from "animated rubbish".

As far as how one feels about the whole field, I must say that you have described very accurately the way I felt, and also where I started from.

This is an evil and dangerous subject which has been fuelled by the misdeeds of the PTB (especially the Bush/CIA deals) for the whole of the time I have been alive.

But it's essentially false, and horrifying because its victims can persist with their belief even after they KNOW it is false.

It's also horrifying because in back of it is an evil clique whose cynical manipulations remind one of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, etc.

And it's such a waste...

e.garvin on August 09, 2009:

I have mixed feelings about you JazzRoc. At first I was delighted to hear your rational arguments being laid down in a very clear way, refuting all the sloppy, paranoia-influenced thinking of the chemtrailers. But by the time I finished your last sentence above, I was a little sickened by the arrrogant, insulting tone with which you treat people posting comments.

I was all jazzed up to write some words in glowing support of your rationality, now I'm feeling a little "bleh" about it... BUT, I think it is important to support what you are doing, so I'll pull it together and throw in my 2 cents.

First of all, I believe in a lot of things outside of the currently accepted bounds of the mainstream scientific community. For instance, I feel certain that the earth is being visiting by alien entities in "flying saucers", that ghosts are a real phenomenon, that the universe of matter is based upon a foundation of extremely sublte, alive consciousness, which permeates all things and is what people are usually refering to with the word "God." However, being a "non-scientific, crack-pot" as I am (right?) I do believe in the value of the scientific method and in applying rigorous, flexible, skepticism and rational thought when investigating phenomena and developing theories about them.

I have always been annoyed by many people's willingness to believe in conspiracy theories without any real proof. I have been directed to chemtrail websites for years by friends, and I never found anything which moved me to accept their validity beyond a reasonable doubt. I only came away with a lot of "well, maybes." Likewise for 9-11, crop circles, "flying rods", swine-flu conspiracy, reptilian infiltration of our government(LOL), the list of crazy shit could go on and on. I can't say for sure that I know that all of these things are completely false, but I can say I haven't seen sufficient evidence to put me beyond reasonable doubt that any of them are true. Until there is a wieght of evidence to tip the scales in a certain direction, then my own sincere desire to know the truth forces me to stay with "well, maybe," and wait for something more conclusive.

At the same time, I see that science has it's head up it's ass in many ways. Science claims to be impartial, objective and unbiased, but that is simply not true. I see scientists and "science" falling prey to the same human foible of refusing to allow evidence which radically contradicts entrenched views. I see the same kind of narrow, inflexible, dogmatic thinking in scientists that one finds in those with deeply held religious beliefs, and I see the same blindness to one's own hidden, underlying assumptions about reality which affect and direct what one even thinks it possible to look for and study in the first place. As what's-his-name said, "radical, new truths are at first ridiculed... before finally being accepted" -and science is guilty of this as well. No one, it seems, especially enjoys having their cherished beliefs about life overturned; "objective" "rational" scientists included!

However, science does have a good workable method of investigation and study, as is apparent by all the wonders and gadgetry it has supplied humanity with over the years.

I wish more of you hippy conspiracy theorists would adopt this Jazzroc's type of rigorous thinking before you go around talking up a bunch of paranoid hoopla. And at the same time, keep in mind that mainstream science is indeed blind to certain truths which are outside of it's current, (prejudiced) acceptance. So keep that open mind and willingness to explore outside the box, just don't bite the hook all the way until you have real evidence.

JazzRoc on August 04, 2009:

The fact is they are NOT owned by the same people that own the govt, and any dealings they have with each other go through third parties, which rules out the links you suggest.

I'm an engineer and KNOW that animation is correct. It was THAT PLANE that hit the Pentagon - and you can SEE IT in the simulation. It obviously wasn't impossible to fly it in because IN IT FLEW! It hit seven lamp standards on its way in (absolutely ruling out a missile or small aircraft), and also a generator set and a kerb.

Similarly, the energy of the towers' descent was equivalent to a 500 kiloton nuclear weapon, and quite capable of buckling their heat-softened exterior skins to the point of collapse, blowing out windows in compression-explosive events on the way down (at free-fall speed) and creating "microspheres" of vaporized iron/aluminum/sulfur residues (out of the mixed-up contents of the buildings) upon collision with the ground.

I recommend you watch this video of a Phantom jet fighter crashing into a substantial concrete block at 500mph to get a good idea of the force of such a collision.

Amongst the site rubble, apart from the steel beams, NOTHING was found bigger than two inches across...

You are dealing with effects beyond your comprehension.

Science is the study of such effects. Study science, and desist from telling me about science until you understand more than I do.

nojustno on August 02, 2009:

dont know what the link was supposed to proove jazroc "civil aircraft manufacturers are not the defense dept .are they" fact is they are owned by the same people that own the gov. ive seen numerous interviews with pilots saying it was totally and utterly impossible to fly that plane into the pentagon .in the mean time chem/con or wateva are worse hey man we are still living in times akin to 500 years ago just depends what u got in the bank i dont want to insult you merely for the fact your a musician like me so dont post animated rubbish like that what do you think of steven jones and scholars 911 intelligent people ?

JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on May 05, 2009:

Nojustno, WHO ran off with the defense budget money? I'm sure the manufacturers awaiting payment would like to know.

But civil aircraft manufacturers are not the Defense Dept., are they?

And this shows what "whateva" was pretty clearly:

JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on May 05, 2009:

Yesindeed, Reuters' piece went "12 cargo planes carrying loads of silver iodide, liquid nitrogen and cement powder to seed clouds above Moscow and empty the skies of moisture."

That might alter a few clouds, yesindeed, but I don't think it made the slightest difference to the WEATHER. It was designed to keep Moscow dry for an afternoon. 

nojustno on April 24, 2009:

the day before the pentagon was hit by wateva didn't d rumsfelt say a quater of the defence budget was un accounted for? so many trillions of dollars and you say jazroc that aircraft are built under spec and as cheaply as poss. a quarter of the budget missing !

yesindeed on April 17, 2009:

If weather modification has never been done, why are the Russians doing it?

JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on March 30, 2009:

Ah, "ME!", how very exciting! So you knew "those stuff" before?

You too have looked up research by atmospheric scientists and come to the same conclusions as I have - how nice.

For further detail (more "stuff") try

Lot's of pretty pictures for you there (but you know already)...

ME! on March 16, 2009:

UHHH!!!! i already know those stuff since before! SO NOT INTERESTING!!!!

JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on February 26, 2009:

General MF. Your (no my!) problem is that you are regurgitating speculative bullshit supplied by sites filled with guys like you, who, while not being able to understand the physics of the atmosphere, are quite willing to tell others what they see with their eyes, whilst using their own clueless interpretation of what they see and confabulating this with similar confabulations from others like you around you to make up one GRAND fairy story.

You are the contemporary form of the fairy story "Chicken Little". Your chicken-sized brain doesn't believe it needs to understand the physics of the atmosphere, and (what does it matter?) the people you tell these fairy stories to don't understand the science either...

Well, now, you're talking to ME, and I know exactly how much bullshit you speak.

The US military is busy right now mutilating and killing Iraqis. A general overview of the FUEL USED shows nothing "set aside" for "spraying". There is NO NEED for spraying to augment communications - rings of communication satellites, low-frequency transmissions from specialized radio stations, and airborne transmissions from specialized aircraft give complete round-the-world 24-7 coverage.

General Malefactor (may I call you that?), there isn't a single nugget of truth in what you write. The apparent "spraying" is from CIVIL aircraft, the phenomenon is NATURAL, barium and polymers are NOT sprayed, RADAR and satellite comms DON'T need "sprays", and clouds aren't "disrupted" by them.

Normal contrails CREATE cirrus clouds, especially in humid conditions. Humid conditions are increased when air travel is increased, and AIR TRAVEL IS INCREASING. What you saw happening over your city is going to INCREASE in frequency simply because air travel is STILL INCREASING. It looks intense because it IS intense: a jumbo drops 250 tons of ice in saturated air FOR EVERY MILE IT TRAVELS. It's your ignorance that makes this statement incredible to you. You really need to study FACTS before you bear false witness against others. THAT is a SIN. 

Chemtrails don't exist at all, and even if they did they couldn't be a chaff countermeasure. The chaff provides a reflecting point for any impinging radar beam. Its length is "tuned" to the frequency of the radar beam. Erstwhile "chemtrails" are putatively AEROSOLS, point particles without length, and consequently the beam would pass through them. And chaff is only used in war scenarios...

Just get yourself access to a book on the atmosphere, what it consists of, and how it behaves, AND LEARN THE ART OF GRACEFUL APOLOGY. And for God's sake, learn to spell!

general. MF on February 25, 2009:

chemtrails programs are part of the aerospace defence program of U.S. army and N.A.T.O.the military aircraft that you see are spraying mostly barium and polimer. radar and satellite connections are used in combinations with military aerosols.the substances used are very toxic for the environment.this is very secret military stuff, and is not normal jet exaust or normal others words, chemtrails are military RADAR and SATELLITES particular, the military destrupts clouds formations for better telecomunications of all type, for example, RADAR, satellites connection, wireless sensors....this is very bad for your and your family healthsi'm not kidding guys, these are the facts

jazzroc, you are wrong:

normal condensation don't neutralize natural clouds. igroscopic chemtrails does.wake up jazzrocthere are ufficial military documents about this,i’m not kidding.things like stealth stuff applicated to nuclear weapons. the threat of a nuclear attack is is all related to aerial defence trough radar and satellites.look in the sky and you will notice something wrong, and is not normal vapor or normal aircraft condensation trails. we are talking about different things, we are talking about the aerial defence program of the united states army.i’m serious guys, i see with my own eyes military aircraft creates some sort of chemical clouds over the entire city.this is not normal guys.have you ever heard the word “chaff”?, well, chemtrails are some sort of countermeasure of this type of things.remember, china and russia have many nukes ready to be launched towards US and NATO countries.

JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on February 17, 2009:

Yes, Marvin, I HAVE seen tank systems inside the fuselage! The tanks contain a certain amount of water and are interconnected with piping. These are used to vary the centre of gravity of a prototype aircraft during its flight trials. As in: These original Boeing website photos then get "photoshopped" and end up (typically) rostrum-scanned into Italian "Sciechimiche" "Inside a Chemtrail Sprayer" videos, and plastered all over YouTube for the gullible to watch. Been there (and been gulled), have you?

Where's YOUR logic? What's YOUR motive?

Marvin Gardens on February 06, 2009:

Anyone seen pics of chemical tank systems INSIDE THE FUSALAGE? Someone mentions wet wings as if that is the only way to contain chemicals for spraying. Twisted logic I guess, just to make a point. What is the motive?

JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on December 14, 2008:

but I have to take issue with #3 (I'll be coming back to that soon, so get your data ready -and please DO NOT include WIKI as a source)

I don't give a monkeys for your opinion: the tropopause (the coldest part of the atmosphere) divides the armosphere in two, and trails are made in the upper half under conditions which you don't understand at all.

I also take issue with statements in your brazen retort above, but you get a lot of credit for mentioning the amazing cloud creating properties of phytoplankton.

Gee, golly, gosh.

About the most egregious offense I've seen from you is in horribly miscalculating HAARP and AIM's capabilities (that crazy 'ducting' thought experiment thing lol) which are far beyond the scope you suggest as Weather intervention is definitely a reality today. It does not require an impossible amount of money, massive chemtrailing operations or an impossible amount of barium dispersal as you seem to suggest to modify the atmosphere for DOD purposes.

A paragraph wrong in its entirety. Weather has NEVER been modified, and HAARP certainly couldn't go it. I am losing patience with with non-scientists telling scientists about science.

Your on point that contrails aren't chemtrails mostly but I prefer to give more credence to former U.S. Def. Sec. William Cohn (HAARP like weaponry being in use as of 1997) and Bernard Eastlund than to you. Your sense of wry humor may be more developed than those 2 but your grasp of militarizing airspace is certainly not as advanced as theirs.

Jamming communications was used intensively in WWII and has been developed ever since. I am more aware of the principles than you could ever understand, from your limited point of view. Thanks for the sophistry.

Just curious Jazzrock, who do you consider a good example of "Jazz/rock"? Miles Davis, Coltrane, Steve Kimmock? Derek Trucks? ??? Of course we both know there is no accounting for personal taste in music... lol.

Sorry, I'm too busy to have discovered the last two. Coltrane I prefer to Davis. He surprises me more...

bryan on December 08, 2008:

Hi Jazzrock,

This is a pretty good website and for the most part your 20 things is "on point"

I'd give you a B+ if I were grading your list of 20 things (yeah, that is pretty funny- as if I'd qualify to be YOUR teacher)

but I have to take issue with #3 (I'll be coming back to that soon, so get your data ready -and please DO NOT include WIKI as a source)

I also take issue with statements in your brazen retort above, but you get a lot of credit for mentioning the amazing cloud creating properties of phytoplankton.

About the most egregious offense I've seen from you is in horribly miscalculating HAARP and AIM's capabilities (that crazy 'ducting' thought experiment thing lol) which are far beyond the scope you suggest as Weather intervention is definitely a reality today. It does not require an impossible amount of money, massive chemtrailing operations or an impossible amount of barium dispersal as you seem to suggest to modify the atmosphere for DOD purposes.

Your on point that contrails aren't chemtrails mostly but I prefer to give more credence to former U.S. Def. Sec. William Cohn (HAARP like weaponry being in use as of 1997) and Bernard Eastlund than to you. Your sense of wry humor may be more developed than those 2 but your grasp of militarizing airspace is certainly not as advanced as theirs.

Just curious Jazzrock, who do you consider a good example of "Jazz/rock"? Miles Davis,Coltrane,Steve Kimmock? Derek Trucks? ??? Of course we both know there is no accounting for personal taste in music... lol.

-Bryan aka Bryansail or Brain4sale or whatevah


JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on July 25, 2008:

Well, we HAVE been busy while I was away!

"You are very unconvincing though." - It's not surprising YOU aren't convinced.

"Chaff dispersal methods vary, newer methods exist" - Produce your "documentation". (Do I mean that?)

"OTHR is a reality, hundreds of documents -oops THOUSANDS of documents exist detailing the modification of atmosphere for dozens of different purposes." - I think there are "THOUSANDS of documents" concerning Star Trek. When was the last time you talked with a Vulkan? You haven't? Well, perhaps that's because Star Trek's a FICTION, which is what a PROPOSAL is before ACTION turns it into FACT.

"The military is deploying atmospheric intervention currently." - An all-and-some fallacy proposed to DUPES with the purpose of gaining notoriety.

"HAARP documents" - are another form of tired bullshit to do with what defence forces might do with the HAAARP program in the event of war. Perhaps you'll get to "destabilizing the Earth's crust" in your NEXT post?

"The military / blah / public domain?" - Why don't you include the works of Iain M. Banks? THEN you can suggest the military are working on turning the Sun into a NOVA as a Doomsday weapon? After all - if it's in print it MUST BE TRUE.

"Absence of proof, is not proof of absence." - Personally I worship the Teapot God who lives on an orbit between Earth and Venus. Don't put me down: "Absence of proof, is not proof of absence."

"I don't have time for your specialized logic problems" - I don't have time for your endless regurgitation of un-enacted proposals, science fiction and libel.

I use Occam's Razor to solve problems - that is, extra unsubstantiated, conflated and fictional material is unnecessary for an understanding of the true nature of affairs. I have listened to CRAP like this for fifty years, and my experience of it is that it has (almost always!) come to NOTHING.

"dispersal of metals through jet exhaust has already been demonstrated" - All-and-some - AGAIN! (It isn't IMPOSSIBLE to spray a liquid organic metal additive through a jet engine - but it would HAVE to be in a lot of specialized military jets (large amounts of HEAVY organic liquids are dangerously corrosive and would need special lined tanks fitted with stirrers, and as I've said before, civil aircraft wings are built to a budget, and don't incorporate holes for "poison spray tanks and pipes"), and how many of those would be needed for a world-wide campaign?

I'll answer you: 70,000 tanker flights dispersing 3,400,000 tons of organic metal liquids would be needed to impart a SINGLE monomolecular "coating" to the Earth. (Calculated assuming ONE BARIUM molecule per square centimeter!)



"As far as chaff / blah / OTHR, radar Antenna, ionization, plasma fields and ducting / I'm not optimistic lol." - If I were you, I wouldn't be, either. You should try using a calculator, and putting "your money where your mouth is".

Then you'll brighten up!

Right on, 2112!

There are TWO simple processes which can harmlessly change the Earth's albedo and thus diminish Global Warming:

1) Mid-ocean fertilization with iron oxides (rust to you).

2) Salter's Salt Spray Trimarans.

Check them out! They are both WAY WAY cheaper, and non-poisonous, to boot.

More than that - they are REVERSIBLE (in the unlikely case of unforeseen events), and they will be EFFECTIVE.

Personally, my bet's on using Life processes. These processes have created our fresh air from volcanic effluent for billions of years right up to the present. (The Earth has approximately 11,500 ACTIVE volcanoes!)

Ocean phytoplankton is saving our scrawny necks right NOW...

bryansail33 on July 07, 2008:

Wow, 2112 you are certainly convinced. You are very unconvincing though.

Chaff dispersal methods vary, newer methods exist including deployment of metals being spewed from contrail exhaust exist do we agree? (Careful 2112, documentation exists)

OTHR is a reality, hundreds of documents -oops THOUSANDS of documents exist detailing the modification of atmosphere for dozens of different purposes. Do we agree? (Careful 2112, documentation exists)OTHR as in radio communications.

The military is deploying atmospheric intervention currently (hint; metals are involved) Do we agree ? (Careful 2112, documentation exists)

HAARP documents detail the use of metals including barium dispensed from airplanes. Do we agree ? (careful 2112, plethora of documentation exists here as well)

The military has advanced aircraft that we do not have proof of would you agree? (have fun 2112, I don't have proof lol) Certainly some advanced next generation-perhaps nuclear powered, antigravity, or pulse energy propulsion exist though, right? Why do you find it so difficult to digest the military's current atmospheric modifications just because they are not public domain 2112?

Absence of proof, is not proof of absence. Your website is only a starting point that simply proves contrails and chemtrails can't simply be discerned. That does nothing to dis-prove aerosolized metals, nothing.

I don't have time for your specialized logic problems but you really need to research the THOUSANDS of documents detailing atmospheric intervention. Here's a hint, metals are involved, and dispersal of metals through jet exhaust has already been demonstrated-again, not my faulty claim, evidence of metals via jet exhaust is available to you. Haarp is but one of dozens of examples of their use.

As far as chaff is concerned, there are DOD documents regarding it's use which exceed radar jamming, go ahead and have a look.

Here are a few relevent terms for you ol' 2112, OTHR, radar Antenna, ducting, ionization, plasma fields and ducting. Good luck 2112, judging from your calling me 'brain4sale' you are way overmatched when looking at current military atmospheric interventions. I've provided a few links over at contrail science and won't be reposting them here. Hope you can elevate your game, but I'm not optimistic lol.



2112 on June 27, 2008:


Chaff is not seen in the sky as a persistent, what does that have to with persistent contrails being confused for "chemtrails"

Chaff is not sprayed behind aircraft but ejected mechanically- and this NOT an aeresol...and leaves a radar signature but no visible trail. Do we have agreement??

Chaff does not persist for hours and days and spread out into a cirrus cloud covering the sky in a haze. Do we have agreement?

Please source and document the use of contrails in the gulf war? just because you say it is so doen't make it so...Do you agree??

Chaff is not used daily, globally but tested periodically. Chaff has NOTHING to do with persistent contrails being mistaken for "chemtrails" Do we agree?

The intent of the use of Chaff has been determined as evidenced by all the DOD documents pertaining to its study, development and use. Do you agree??

bryansail33 on June 23, 2008:

Jazzrock, and Bard of Ely,

Contrails have spread, persisted and existed long before the current ‘mania’ by the chemtrail 'maniacs' and you can't tell 'em apart by looking at a video, or photo, or from observing them persisting. That much you probably have right...

Now lets touch on a few other points of interest. I am curious of your current knowledge of these data points as they are public record and have been available for many years.

1) chaff has been utilized for years as a way of jamming enemy radar by the military. This chaffe is released as an aerosol from aircraft. Do we have any disagreement here?

2) In 1993 ‘chemtrails’ (ugh, sorry to use such a loaded, controversial and mis characterized term) were deployed over Iraq in the first ‘Gulf war’ for radio communication purposes. This use of contrails by the military is a direct application of a very real/in use patent on aerosol operations. The metals utilized include both aluminum and barium. Do we have any disagreement?

3)EDB, is used in jetfuel, do you know of it? Nasty stuff, but I'm sure you are aware of it as an aerosol expert. Again, like points 1 & 2 this is public record.

The truly difficult question is to what degree are chemtrails being 'sprayed' since we know that they are in use / have recently been used. EDB is not something you want in you, the chemtrailers are wrong in some ways, but they have no evidence that chemicals are not being deposited throughout the spheres and have good reason to be suspicious. ...too bad about their particular delusions but I digress....

The truth is out there don't stop looking, and chewing on it. This issue IS NOT so simple, both camps are probably both right and wrong it looks to me. Degree of utilization and intent is not established or proven but I am concerned.

Very Truly,


JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on May 26, 2008:

From recent and sobering personal experience the furthering of the CHEMTRAIL delusion by the power-crazed, the psychopathic, the greedy, the lying and the deluded can ALSO be a great danger and that is why I now fear and distrust it!

Having "too many bad people in powerful positions" has always been the normal condition of Humanity. This will persist while we the people make no effort to change it. In such a state of irresponsibility we the people are apparently simply USELESS. However the consequences of our uselessness STILL remain our responsibility!

There really is no LOGICAL connection between your argument about whose hands Science is in, and the thrust of this argument.

"Chemtrails" are a delusion, and consequently CAN NOT BE in the hands of the "powerful".

Maintaining the focus on a delusion instead of the truth makes one worse than simply useless: instead of SOLVING problems (and being useful) one BECOMES a problem, and thus WORSE THAN USELESS. You CANNOT solve ANYTHING.

Had mass educational "dumbing-down" not been so successful, "chemtrails" wouldn't have lasted a second in our society. I knew enough Science to be able to dismiss this stupid idea by the time I was twelve years old.

If you'd been able to keep your thinking clear, Steve, so would you! It seems you still need a measure of luck with that...

Steve Andrews from Lisbon, Portugal on May 26, 2008:

Thank you!

I would just like to add that I believe that science is fine if wisely used but in the hands of the power crazed, the psychopathic, the greedy, the lying and the deluded it can be the greatest danger and that is why people fear and distrust it. Science provides us with tools which can be used for good or bad purposes and sadly we have too many bad people in powerful positions on this planet!

JazzRoc (author) from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands on May 26, 2008:

Bard, as ever your writing is excellent.

It was truly amazing to finally penetrate your argument by pointing out that dusts and halos don't ever happen together. It is due to your lifelong fascination with carefully observing natural events, and your essentially scientific approach to what you see, that caused you to realise that you could not continue with a paradox inside your belief system. It is due also to your honesty, which let you change your mind.

This is, of course, what scientists must do in order to reach new horizons.

At any point in time you care to consider, Science is WRONG. Do scientists know everything? By no means... they are always overturning previous misconceptions in a never-ending search for truth.

Yet it is obvious that as a consequence of centuries of this search we NOW live in a world dominated by Science, and mostly for the better.

Science touches all our lives from cradle to grave, and few of us would really like to live in the world of five hundred years ago, with high infant mortality, a high death-rate for mothers giving birth, a high death-rate for everyone from unchecked disease, a Dark Age of despotic rule, religious conformity, persecution, and low life expectancy.

Science is at the heart of every action on the planet, and understanding it should no longer be the task of just a few. We ALL must accept this responsibility.

Steve Andrews from Lisbon, Portugal on May 26, 2008:

JazzRoc, I didn't know, you are right, but I do now, thanks to you! This is a very good explanation of so much stuff that is not known by so many people including the speakers and authors who talk about chemtrails as a reality and threat. This is a great shame because many of us trust these people to know what they are talking about and assume they have done their research. Clearly they haven't done much or are knowingly or unknowingly putting unverified and untrue data out for people to accept as facts. I have spent several years with a belief system that was built on not knowing this information presented here and trusting reports from conspiracy authors and researchers, backed up by the agreement of fellow conspiracy believers.

The belief I had caused illogical thought that I couldn't see at the time eg it would cause me to ignore info such as you have given here as being false. It would also cause me to make conclusions based on little more than associations eg last year I was in a plane travelling to Dublin from here and as we approached it and the thick cloud cover over Ireland I saw persistent trails over the clouds and I saw a green painted plane laying one. When the plane I was on landed I saw a green plane on a runway and made a note that it was Aer Lingus and that this airline uses a shamrock in its logos. My belief system and past info I had read on chemtrail sites then caused me to conclude that this was part of Operation or Project Cloverleaf and further that such planes were conducting weather modification and that was why Ireland was experiencing terrible weather. When I flew on to Wales and saw more such trails all over the sky and the airport as well as finding out that the country of my birth had been also getting heavy rain, I assumed this was due to the same thing - weather modification by planes leaving trails. How sad it was, I thought, that all these people are suffering this awful weather, and yet they do not know how it is being caused. I can now see that this was rubbish but it made perfect sense to me then! No doubt if I had had a fellow chemtrail-believer with me at the time he or she would have agreed with me and reinforced my delusion! This is how this sort of belief gets stronger - fellow believers agree with you and the non-believers are seen as either ignorant of the "facts" or worse as the enemy deliberately lying! It works like a religion!

Thank you for explaining this stuff and I hope a lot more people will read what you have to say!

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