Updated date:

The Trump Economy

Author:

Jack is a volunteer at the CCNY Archives. Before retiring, he worked at IBM for over 28 years. As of 2/2020, Jack has over 100,000 views.

the-trump-economy

Introduction

Anyone who has been paying attention the last few years must realize a major shift has taken place in the US. The main reason is a shift in our government from the Obama years to the new Trump administration. There are two camps of thought. One that believes the economy works in a regular cycle and what goes and changes have little to do with Washington politics. The other believes federal government regulations and policies have a direct effect on our economy and jobs and investments. Who is right?

- Aug. 2018

updated Jan. 2019

Background

Perception is one thing but real hard economic data is hard to argue with. We can attack this problem in several ways. If we examine the various economic indicators, like GDP and jobs and and taxes and wages and debts and interest rate... we can see a pattern. Moreover, consumer sentiments and business outlook and global trade and stability of the market is another aspect to consider. Finally, the man on the street and how they perceive the overall economic condition is also a gage.

There is no argument that macro economics moves in cycles. We have over the past 80 years a periodic boom and recession which occurs on average every 7 or 8 years. However, within those cycles are another secondary effect. This is the effect of government in controlling the money supply and interest rates via the Federal Reserve in an attempt to moderate the economic impact of these cycles. Just for an example, in a heated economy when the inflation rises, the Federal Reserve raises interest rate to slow down the boom. On the other hand, during a recession, the Federal Reserve would lower interest rate in an attempt to stimulate growth and investment in the private sector. It does not always work in the real world. Depending what else is going on, the government has limited powers in changing the direction of a $19 trillion economy of the US.

World trade has been growing and playing a bigger part of our economy. We are a global society. Many of our large corporations have businesses overseas. They are constrainted by what goes on in other nations. More and more of our economy is tied to other nations and their economic well being. A recession in China will have a negative effect on our economy and vice versa.

Economics is not an exact science. Unlike chemistry or physics, we cannot predict the outcome. There are some basic principles. However, public perception and sentiment do play a role in the course of our economy. For example, if the consumer confidence is high, people are more likely to spend on discretionary items such as vacations and going out to eat... This in turn will generate more business and lead to more hiring and higher wages. On the other hand, if consumers cut back during recession, the business is affected negatively. A feedback loop is inherent in these various cycles.

Here Are The Facts...

  • Major Tax Reformed Bill passed over last 30 years
  • Regulation reform - two regulations removed for every one added
  • GDP above 4%
  • Federal Fund rate at 2% and returning to normal
  • DOW at all time high over 26,000
  • Unemployment rate - U6 is 7.5% a better gage of real unemployment.
  • Up to $250 billion repatriated by companies from overseas
  • Most Americans will receive a tax reduction of $1500 this year.
  • the National Debt climbed to $21.5 trillon.
  • A new NAFTA deal worked out with Mexico
  • The small business optimism index from the National Federation of Independent Business jumped to 108.8 in August, a new all-time high.

The SPY Index Fund Since Election of Trump - Up 38%

the-trump-economy

Summary

Things have started to move in the right direction. There is much more to be done. The deficit is a huge looming problem. Unemployment and under employment is still too high. Wages are not keeping up with rising costs. Full time jobs with benefits are hard to get. Our trade inbalance with China is growing.

It was President Obama who said “elections have consequences...” He passed the ACA healthcare bill in 2010. Now, President Trump passed the Tax Reform bill. There effects on the economy cannot be understated.

Whether you like him or not, it is Trump’s economy now at least for the next two years.

Best Cartoon of the Year!

the-trump-economy

Opinion From the Other Side - Sept. 11, 2018

I am pasting an opposing opinion posted in the comments section by another hubber.

Here is her post and predictions...

=======================================

I wont make peace with any of them. They are personal and vicious. On purpose. And they get away with it.

And i am making a prediction. By this time next year, if Trump party still reigns, we will be back in recession, only 20 times worse, and many many rights will be gone.

Trump economy is the same old trickle up nonsense always plied by Republicans. Only Trump has empowered the filthy rich and those who get rich off human misery, such as private corporations and the Zio-Nazis of the world.

More laws to lock up more people so they can profit.

Trump news only.

Trump radio, state tv.

Back to stone ages for any but white judeo xtian male.

History repeating. IF Trump party stays in charge.

That is my opinion.

========================================


Latest Update News...1/25/2019

The USA has moved up from #18 to #12 on the economic freedom index. This is very good news.

On the other hand, Venezuela has moved down to next to dead last. Socialism failed every time it is tried.

Some Related Info

Obama Speech on Trump Economic Success

Update - Jan. 2019

Before the mid term election. Trump made a statement that was prophetic. He said, “if you want the market to go down, vote Democrat.”

Since the Democrats won back the majority in the House of Representative, the market has indeed drop about 15%. It is probably unfair to blame this all on the election. It did play a part.

There were a few other issues at play.

1. The federal Reserve have been increasing the interested rate slowly and trying to get the rate back to a more normal level. We are not there yet but any increase of rates have tremendous impact on the market. The reason is simple. When rates go up, it gives some investor option to move their assets into other forms of investments.

2. The trade discussions between the US and China was heated. Trump is using the threat of increased tariffs to level the playing field with our China trade partners. They have been stealing our intellectual properties along with currency manipulation to undermine our exports.

3. The market was on a huge run up, increasing 20% in 2017 after the election of Trump. In the first 10 months of 2018, it went up another 10%. This was unprecedented In recent history. A correction was due in any case. That is the nature of the stock market. Smart investors will use these corrections as buying opportunities.

4. The important thing to understand is that economies do under go cycles. Regardless who is sitting in the White House, the economy will move up and down. However, this past two years have demonstrated that government policies do have an economic effect as well. When Trump passed tax reform, and renegotiated trade deals, remove some regulations on business and revised some ACA rulings, all contributed to a healthier business climate and help investment grow.

It is worth noting, after a volitile month of Dec. 2018, the market has regained most of the losses and we are on an up trend. This is due mainly to better economic outlook and business fundamentals. The earnings are good and oil prices are low and tax reform is bringing some jobs and manufacturing plants back to the US.

Some Related Info - An Opposing Opinion

© 2018 Jack Lee

Comments

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on August 02, 2020:

It is economics 101. when you have an endless supply of low skilled workers, the wages will be depressed at that level.

The current huge deficits is driven by the COVID-19 shut down and the PPP and stimulus checks.

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on August 02, 2020:

No, "The growing deficits is NOT the only thing I got right.". Every fact I gave you is backed up by the data. Prove me wrong.

"The Democrats control of the House, who also controls spending," - So the Senate (Republican controlled) has nothing to do with spending. I suggest you go back to your civics books.

There is no "spending spree" (well, there is now with Covid). The deficit is being driven up from lack of revenue resulting from the disastrous GOP Tax Scam.

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on August 02, 2020:

"scott, trying to push the theory that all was well under Obama and the Trump economy was just continuation of the Obama recovery..." - IT IS NOT theory Jack, it is simply a fact.

What Boom? It was business as usual from the Obama years.

Trump DID NOT reverse Obama's tax cut. He instituted one of his own that is driving up the Debt and Deficit - TELL ME, how is that good?

Trade deals - He opted out of the TPP and left world trade domination ot the Chinese. TELL ME, how is that good?

He abandoned any hope of combating climate change by 1) leaving the Paris Peace accords and getting rid of climate regulations. TELL ME, how is that good?

He drops out of the WHO and further isolates America from the rest of the world. TELL ME, how is that good.

He is cutting off our supply of legal immigrants thereby cutting our GDP in the process. TELL ME, how is that good.

Studies show clearly that illegal immigrants have no effect on wages. That is just a conservative false talking point. Show me the studies that back up your claim. So you want to waste high skilled workers to go work in the fields - is that your solution?

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on August 02, 2020:

scott, trying to push the theory that all was well under Obama and the Trump economy was just continuation of the Obama recovery...

That is just un-true. Trump reversed many of the Obama economic policies, tax cuts, trade deals, remove of unnecessary regulations which lead to the economic boom as indicators by jobs, manufacturing and the stock market...all this happened before the COVID-19 shut down.

The immigration issue is one of the problem Trump try to fix and Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats try to stop.

Illegal immigration is one of the reason we have poor wages at the bottom of the economic ladder. Supply and demand drives wages.

More supply of unskilled or low skilled workers, lead to lower wages.

The growing deficits is the only thing you got right. It started under Obama with annual deficits of 1 trillion, and now has continued under Trump for the first 3 years of his term. The Democrats control of the House, who also controls spending, is what is continuing this spending spree. It is unconscionable that with record revenues, during an economic boom that our government continue to spend above its means. When will this stop? This shut down, have caused a deeper deficits and added 3 trillion to the debt in just 4 months. This cannot last...

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on August 02, 2020:

Yes, our tax system is progressive, as it should be. The rich get disproportionate benefits from America and therefore should pay a disproportionate share of Federal Income taxes.

You failed to answer the question as to why you want to force more people into poverty.

Now, on to other metrics you left out:

* Before Covid, the GOP Tax Scam was driving the National Debt to unseen levels

* Before Covid, the annual Deficit was soaring to record levels.

* Trump, with his anti-immigration policy, has exacerbated the decline in population growth which naturally leads to a declining GDP, if not offset by an increasing productivity growth

* Under Trump, and before Covide, the 80-year decline in productivity growth continued.

* The real Median Household Income has continued to increase (at least through 2019) but failed to meet the goal set by the tax cut plan

* The Average Weekly Earnings Growth slowed down from the trend established in the last four years of Obama's term

* Real Wage Growth declined significantly in Trump's first two years but recovered somewhat in the last two years.

* The Participation Rate continued the growth established by Obama in the last three years of his term for the first two years in Trump's, but then declined in 2019

* The Median Weeks out of work flattened under Trump although the Average Weeks out of work continued to decline until 2019

* The number of job openings increase markedly beginning in Nov 2017, but then began a substantial decline in April 2019.

* Manufacturing jobs continued Obama's increase until Dec 2018, when it flattened out.

* The Manufacturing Index under Trump was better than Obama's until Oct 2018, when it started a long decline.

* Consumer Index flattened out after years of growth until Feb 2018, when it began a slow decline.

* Total Auto Sales flattened out beginning with Trump's term in office. They became very unstable starting in Jan 2018

THOSE are the rest of the Facts.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on August 01, 2020:

No, I was not trying to deceive. Just stating a fact.

It also goes to show how our tax system is already pretty progressive.

If half of our population already are not paying Federal income tax, then it follows that the other 50% are paying the whole bill...

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on August 01, 2020:

Jack, you are struggling. "any taxes" means any taxes. How is it clear to someone who can't read your mind that you meant Federal Income Taxes. We can only judge by the words you chose. To me it seems that by choosing the unambiguous words "any taxes" you meant to deceive the reader into thinking 50% do not pay any taxes whatsoever.

Now, that said, why should it surprise you that 50% of people pay no Federal Income Taxes when they don't earn enough to even save a dime?

Why do you want to drive EVEN MORE people into poverty in the wealthiest nation on earth than there already is?

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on August 01, 2020:

Scott,

When I used the word "any", I was saying like zero amount, but clearly referring to income tax, paid to the IRS...or State. Obviously, everyone pay sales tax...and property tax if they own a home...

You miss interpreted my answer either deliberately or in error.

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on August 01, 2020:

"I was talking about income tax." - No you weren't Jack, let me quote you, "We all know the other 50% do not pay ANY TAXES and are living paycheck to paycheck.." (capitalization is mine).

"Any Taxes" does NOT mean "income tax", let alone Federal Income Tax. Where you trying to deceive the reader, Jack, by using the phrase "Any Taxes"?

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on August 01, 2020:

Let Us Examine Your Facts, Jack -

Major Tax Reformed Bill passed over last 30 years - (I assume you meant the only major tax reform bill passed in the last 30 years. If so, that of course is wrong. Both Bush and Obama had major tax reform bills.)

Regulation reform - two regulations removed for every one added - (That may or may not be true - it is a talking point after all - but the Important question is did that hurt America and Americans?)

GDP above 4% - (That is simply a lie, Jack. Not counting the the 34% Decline in the 2nd quarter and the 3.4% Decline in the 1st quarter, Trump NEVER had a quarter over 4%, his best was 3.5%. Trump's Best annual GDP is 2.9%, virtually identical to Obama's Best annual GDP. Facts matter. )

Federal Fund rate at 2% and returning to normal - (OK, although Covid is killing that)

DOW at all time high over 26,000 - (In nominal dollars. If you, however, draw a channel above and below Obama's 8-year history and use constant dollars - the proper measure for dollars over time - you will find that only on three occasions did Trump's Dow exceed the upper channel boundary. For most of Trump's term, the Dow has remained withing the upper and lower channel boundaries. I will give you it stayed in the upper third for most of that time.)

Unemployment rate - U6 is 7.5% a better gage of real unemployment. - (OK, compared to what?? If you draw a trend line from the height of the Republican Recession to the end of Obama's term, you will find the U-6 declined about .96 points per year. Extend that through three of the Trump years - the U-6 is currently 18% - then following the Obama trend, the U-6 should be - guess what - 6.8%, a result Trump failed to achieve.)

Up to $250 billion repatriated by companies from overseas - (True, but much of it was used to buyback stock and not reinvest in America)

Most Americans will receive a tax reduction of $1500 this year.- (Trump's tax cut was a Bust - https://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-official-the...

the National Debt climbed to $21.5 trillon. - (It is now $26.6 trillion)

A new NAFTA deal worked out with Mexico. - (The new NAFTA is not much different than the old NAFTA save for the provisions Pelosi got inserted that allowed unions to sign on to it for the first time ever)

The small business optimism index from the National Federation of Independent Business jumped to 108.8 in August, a new all-time high.- (This one, and similar ones, I give you. Trump did much better than Obama with these metrics.)

Next, I will list other metrics that shows Trump losing his mojo starting about February 2019.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on August 01, 2020:

I was talking about income tax.

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on August 01, 2020:

No, Jack, your statement about "any taxes" is NOT backed by data. It is totally misleading. The ONLY thing backed by data is the part about Federal Income Taxes, which is a SMALL part of a person's TOTAL taxes. You are beating a dead horse on that misleading statement.

FICA and Medicare are 1) called Payroll Taxes and 2) the Supreme Court justifies them as Taxes.

Why are you ignoring State Income Taxes, Property Taxes, Sales Taxes, Excise Taxes, and a host of others?

What is Shocking to me is, in the Wealthiest Nation in the world, that 50% of Americans are FORCED to work from paycheck to paycheck because of the extreme income inequality that exists here (which as gotten much worse under Trump prior to Covid). The consequence of that, of course, is no savings.

Rago on July 31, 2020:

I've been banned for reporting those on the Right as well, Leslie. A few of my bans were well earned as I'd had enough from the Right wingnut and gave him what he gave me. Guess who was banned? LOL!

The moderation here is a joke as far as impartiality is concerned, and always has been for the time I've spent here.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on July 31, 2020:

Same. I reported for thread hi-jacking, excessive arguing......just to see if anything would happen. Nope. Nothing was done to them.....because I was the one reporting, and they are favored hubbers.

Someone called someone stupid......I reported. Not only was nothing done about the insult, but I was banned from reporting!

They don’t treat everyone the same here. They allow rightwingers to bully. This is why political persuasion needs to be a protected class.

Trumpers are......Sandmann proved that. So, what? Only them? I don’t think so!

Rago on July 31, 2020:

Correct Leslie, there aren't many from the Left on the forums anymore. Matt has banned most of them. Some only from the forums, but others of us from the site.

No one I've reported for a personal attack ever served a single day for a ban. I was called a Capitalist Pig by a Trump supporter and he got away scott free.

As you stated, Trumpsters can insult with impunity as they normally do on this article and other HP venues.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on July 31, 2020:

Personal attacks are allowed here. It depends who is doing the attack, and who they are attacking. There definitely is discrimination. And it’s gone on for me since the first day I made a thread.

“She’s stupid, but amusing” “Why do you hate America?”

The last thread I started, 2 of them tag-teamed me with attacks. I was banned for good, they roam free. And one of them works here.

I’ve seen Randy called such things, my jaw dropped. But, she reviewed hubs here, so she was also allowed free.

And, a newbie came on the feed and said “is this the one you emailed me to stay away from?”......

AP gone.....they laughed about sending him on a vacation to take his meds.

I was banned, then shadow banned for a very long time. Now Randy, PP? C’mon.

Read the forums. It’s all left hate, trump love.

This is why I watched the Sandmann case.......I’m hoping they make political affiliation a protected group, like gender and religion.

Here, you are toast if you are liberal, or democrat. And I did not sign up for a rightwing writing site!!!

It’s false advertising.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 31, 2020:

As you may know, I don't publish on HP to make money. I donate all I earn to charity...CCNY Varsity Fencing. Unfortunately, due to the virus, the school is shut down and all athletics has been cancelled for this upcoming season.

Rago on July 31, 2020:

Jack, I notice you have a couple of political ads on this article. Did you know you're not getting paid for them?

Rago on July 31, 2020:

There is no sure way to keep from being banned, Jack. My over 11 years of being banned on and off proves that. I've been called so many names from those on the Right and none I've ever reported for doing so were banned even for a day. Coincidence?

Matt is from Kentucky, Mitch McConnell's state. That ought to tell you something...

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 31, 2020:

My advice to all is to stick to policy differences whether you are liberal or conservative and leave the personal stuff. That is a sure way not to be banned. Of course, not violating HP user agreements which I have fallen a few times.

Rago on July 31, 2020:

Leslie, the link you provided is a prime example of the lack of those on the left to comment because they've been banned for their political views.

These type of kumbaya threads are common these days.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 31, 2020:

There is a fine line between what is "hate speech" and what is accurate report of the situation. Depending where you sit politically, what is considered hate may just be a disagreement.

It reminded me of the old saying - one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter back in the 1970s.

The current debate over Trump is a classic example.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on July 30, 2020:

Hubpages in not moderated by liberals, and conservative women run it.

The squeaky wheel theory.

Report people:

Complain about people:

Let others know they shouldn’t associate with you:

Ban you outright for good:

And yes, it’s complete bias against liberals.

If you think conservatives are calm and reasoned, please.

They are full of insults and malignant attitudes towards the left. But they are more In number than libs, so their clique rules.

Or, liberals just don’t report. They actually live by the 1st amendment.d

That’s why I say a class action lawsuit should ensue. I did not sign up for a rabid right website.

But that’s what it is.

And Sandmann won his. They had to pay fur discriminating against st him because he likes Trump.

Well, how about the discrimination that goes on here?

Anywhere else, this would be considered hate speech.

https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/348963/the-dem...

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 29, 2020:

Scott,

My statement on taxes is backed up by data. The only qualifier is depending if you count FICA as a tax. There are people who pay no income tax but of course pay FICA. To me, FICA is a form of insurance and not a tax.

Moreover, there are people who qualifies to receive tax credits and they not only don't pay any income tax but get credits or a refund for the treasury dept.

What is shocking to me is 50% of Americans have no savings. They live paycheck to paycheck.

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on July 29, 2020:

Now, on to your article. I actually agree with most of what you present, just not your conclusions.

"There are two camps of thought. One that believes the economy works in a regular cycle and what goes and changes have little to do with Washington politics. The other believes federal government regulations and policies have a direct effect on our economy and jobs and investments. Who is right?" - I would argue BOTH are correct, depending on the situation.

Your Background section is correct, but doesn't go far enough. For example, you correctly say that -

"We have over the past 80 years a periodic boom and recession which occurs on average every 7 or 8 years."

But what you leave out is that 1) from 1932-to 2000, liberal Keynesian economic theory predominated and 2) prior to 1932, conservative ruled the day for the vast majority of early American history as well as from 2000 to 2008.

(In point of fact, in the 55 years between 1945 and 2000 there were 11 official recessions - 1 every 5 years). But, there were only 6 where GDP fell more than 2% - 1 every 9 years. It is worth noting, none were worse that any recession prior to 1945.)

The first significant recession since 1945 was after we left the Keynesian theory in 2000. It was on the brink of being the worst recession in American history.

Now the most important thing that was left out was that during the conservative Classical economic theory period from 1785 to 1932 (147 years), there were 36 recessions (1 every 4 years!), Of those, only one was not worse than the Great Recession of 2008 - Just one.

What does that tell you about the efficacy of conservative vs liberal economics.

As I explain in my book, the reason is that conservative economic theory fails, when the economy starts to get out of hand.

You mention feedback mechanisms. Well, the problem with conservative economic theory is it provides "Positive" feedback once the economy goes wacky. That means it becomes like a mic to close to a speaker and a screech develops. This is why the pre-depression economy had so many wild booms and bust cycles.

The ONLY times the gov't was able to bring things back into stability was instituting some form of central bank mechanism. This includes the Copper Panic of 1789 which ended up being the First Bank of the United States; the Depression of 1815 when the Second Bank of the United States was chartered, and the Recession of 1913 which led to the modern day Federal Reserve system.

Rago on July 29, 2020:

I know you're a Trumper, Jack. But you aren't banned from the entire site because of it. Unlike many on the left. I've been here over 11 years and earned HP tens of thousands of dollars during that time.

Apparently they dislike my politics enough to lose money by censoring me. So be it...

I've been banned for months at a time for criticizing someone's meme, but they can insult me all they want without fear of a ban. I have no reason to lie to you about it. There is a Left wing bias on this site.

Just check the forums now for people on the left. They've been banned either from the forums or from the site permanently, like yours truly.

JOC from Syracuse, NY on July 29, 2020:

Yeah, I'm currently serving a three month ban. I've deleted about a third of my hubs and started transferring the best ones over to a wordpress site.

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on July 29, 2020:

Let me start with saying the first part of your statement "We all know the other 50% do not pay ANY TAXES and are living paycheck to paycheck..." is a lie, Jack, and you know it. (the second part of your statement is absolutely true and a sad commentary on the wealthiest nation on earth.)

Your claim about taxes is a classic example of how to lie with statistics. It’s shameless but effective propaganda, which is why the people with the most to gain from it pay propagandists to spread it widely. Anyone pushing this is trying to fool you, and you should ignore anything they say on any subject.

ANY TAXES, Jack, does not equate to federal income taxes (about which your statement is true). Claiming "any taxes" makes your statement a flat out lie.

So, guess what Jack, the bottom 60% (the data is broken out in quintiles) earn 20.3% of total income in America and pays 16.4% of ALL taxes. On the other hand, the top 40% earns 79.7% of all income and pays, guess what, 83.6% of ALL taxes. An ENTIRELY different picture than the false narrative you and the rest of the conservatives promote. Why is that??? Why don't you use complete data??

Banned on July 29, 2020:

Jack, what this says

“The forums are left with just a few Democrats while those from the Right have free reign now.”

Is that Democrats on the forum here either don’t follow the rules (typical of Democrats of course) or their lack of civility isn’t tolerated on the HP forum (which is moderated by liberals) and that’s why all that is left on the forum are the right, conservatives of course who practice civility and respect the rules and don’t parrot false talking points and hatred. Something no one on the left understands, as is demonstrated by the Democrat’s base which for the last two months have been staging violent riots throughout our great country which they hate.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 29, 2020:

Rago, I was banned several times and they differ in duration. At first it was just a few days and later as much a 10 days...

I am conservative...

Rago on July 29, 2020:

I wondered if Valiant and JOC were banned from the forums as were lots of posters from the Left. Myself, Pretty Panther and others were banned permanently.

The forums are left with just a few Democrats while those from the Right have free reign now. I see both Val nd JOC posted here though.

JOC from Syracuse, NY on July 29, 2020:

And with only 21% of the population above age 59 where they can access those funds, the stock market doesn't have any day-to-day value for 80% of America. Which is my point that an unemployment rate that has tripled since Trump ignored and continues to ignore the pandemic and a 35% decrease is the US's GDP are more accurate reflections of how the economy is doing.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 29, 2020:

JOC, 50% of the American people are invested in the stock market one way or another, either directly or indirectly through their pensions and 401K and 403B accounts...

We all know the other 50% do not pay any taxes and are living paycheck to paycheck...

JOC from Syracuse, NY on July 29, 2020:

In how many of those analysis of Norpoth's did a pandemic that the incumbent ignored strike the US after the primaries? Pretty sure, he never had to factor that into his excitement variables.

The economy and the stock market are two different things. The stock market reflects how the rich are doing. Th economy, with 40 million out of work and a GDP that likely shrank by 35% in the second quarter is not a healthy economy.

And yes, we have been hurt by the pandemic. But it's the leader's job to take critical action to ensure these threats do not harm our country. Trump has failed miserably here.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 29, 2020:

JOC,

they are two different things. The polls are based on surveys of likely voters...and prone to many false assumptions.

The 93% I quoted is from one person who has done analysis of past elections and his expert opinion is Trump will be re-elected with 93% confidence level, He has an excellent record and has not been wrong in last few election cycles...

The economy is a different story. We have been hurt by the forced shut down. The market and economy was flying high back in Feb. now it has suffered a setback but it will recover. That is why the index has returned after a drop of 35% of the Dow. It is back to 26,000 and holding. It is not as high as the 29,000 back in 2019 but is is still a good showing considering the current crisis with COVID 19.

JOC from Syracuse, NY on July 29, 2020:

You say that polls mean nothing and seconds later claim Trump has a 93% chance of being re-elected - now that is the definition of bias there.

The stock market is stagnant, at best. But you go ahead and try and sell where the country is currently at through those rose-colored glasses. The rest of us will be over his in reality.

T on July 29, 2020:

Not biased, pure lies Jack.

Nothing but parroted false talking points from the fake news media.

Time to call a spade a spade! Liars should not be privileged as bias.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on July 28, 2020:

The polls mean nothing. The stock market is the leading indicator. It has returned to pre COViD 19 high. The only poll that matters in on election day. Trump has a 93% chance of being re-elected.

Your assessment of Trump performance is biased.

JOC from Syracuse, NY on July 28, 2020:

What? No update to show how well the economy is doing under the guy who ignores intelligence reports about a potential pandemic while he's out golfing? No update to the billions in farmer bailouts or the trillions in Covid-19 socialism? Maybe if he continues to claim it'll just go away, or that masks aren't needed, or that hydroxychloroquine is the answer, the virus will just cooperate.

The falsehoods he peddles about the virus will be his undoing. No one but the 37% of people left in his base are listening to him any longer.

Brad on June 30, 2019:

Jack

I hope that you are right. Right now the left keeps talking about Trump and the 22 Trillion dollar we owe? Their current plans if they win seems to only increase that amount?

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on June 30, 2019:

Brad, The Democrats are all pushing freebies. Unfortunately, Americans are evenly divided and some of them are just naive enough to believe money grows on trees. I still have faith in the majority who are more likely to vote based on their own economic state. Trump has been great for their savings and investment. They will vote with their pocketbook.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on June 30, 2019:

Scott, I wrote this hub a while ago and at that time, the GDP was 4% for the quarter and I decided to leave it. Obviously, we are of different opinion on the economy and on Obama vs. Trump.

It is pointless to continue arguing. Why don’t we let the voter decide?

I predict Trump will win easily against any of the 20 Democrats announced so far. Would you care to place a small wager?

A six pack of beer? It is my favorite beverage.

Brad on June 30, 2019:

Jack

What do you think about the democrat candidates Beto wanting to spend $5 Trillion on AGW?

Scott Belford from Keystone Heights, FL on June 30, 2019:

Problem is Jack, if you had plotted Obama's numbers (like you should have to have a comparison) you would see his results in his 1st two years dwarfs Trumps.

As to your update, in Nov 2018 the DOW was 25,538. Today it is 26,600 - your point?

The "run-up" ended Jan 2018; it started Jan 2016

Trump's peak GDP was 2.9% in 2018 - not 4%

Brad on September 12, 2018:

Mike

"T: Give it up, you are just being a child. Do yourself a favor and look up the difference between assertion, implication, and inference. Here, I will save you the trouble

Commonly Confused Words: infer / imply. Both verbs have to do with the communication of information. The difference between the two is that imply refers to giving information, while infer refers to receiving information. Imply means to strongly suggest the truth or existence of something that is not expressly stated. Infer means to draw a conclusion from that implication.

B:

What is commonly confused by you is the topic, and giving answers relevant to it.

If you spent this much time on giving answers to questions, like mine, you would be doing much better. Great you get an English award for your grammar, but you failed the subject, because it wasn't about the English language, it was about Trump's economy.

While understand some fundamentals of the language, look up condescension and see how it is applied in a sentence.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 12, 2018:

Mike,

I did not see anything else. So far, I’ve approved all comments that came to me. There may have been a delay since I am travelling today.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 12, 2018:

Mark this down Jack:

“Sen. Jeff Merkley has obtained memos showing the Trump administration taking nearly $10 million from FEMA -- which deals with hurricane relief -- and giving the money to ICE for more detention centers.”

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 12, 2018:

Not really. Depends on your income level. Some of us are to poor to deserve a tax cut.

And now they want another one.

Soon I’ll be working to be in debt, what with all the money I’ll have to fork out so rich people can hoard.

Smh. Trickle up sux.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 12, 2018:

Jack: What happened to my reply to T? Did you not approve it?

Brad on September 12, 2018:

Jack

Excellent point!

For example, it is objective and not subjective as to whether the Trump tax reduction helped, hurt, or didn't affect the economy.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 12, 2018:

I think at this point, it is not a matter of different opinions. The economy is going to be the big issue in November. Trump is not on the ballot but many of the people running are on opposite sides of the Trump agenda. We will see who prevails and by extension will know whether the American people like the policies of Trump or rejects it.

I will stress this has little to do with whether you like Trump the person or not. It has to do with his policies in MAGA.

Brad on September 12, 2018:

Mike

"Brad: Do you realize what you just said? The reason they are buried with a hundred negative sites means more financial people think it is not good than good. It also indicates the majority is right and you just can't accept it."

What I said is that the news is biased against president Trump.

And I can't accept anything from the news as facts.

And did you read my link?

No, what you did was deflect, and cherry pick.

The link was directly from Trump's economic advisor. Did any of your news reports take his charts and contradict them. Or did they use their own?

The one link you just gave, I looked at it, and it read like an oped not financial news.

Where can you get the real facts today? My answer is only from the people making the news directly. That is why I like to hear and read president Trump's views, and Tweets. I don't have to agree with them, but I know he said it or wrote it and it hasn't been filtered.

BTW, science doesn't rely on consensus, it relies on truth.

If the Trump economy, getting you back on topic, is not that good then why is former president Barack Obama trying to take credit for it?

-----------------------------------

Mike

You are on the left, yes?

You are a never Trumper, yes?

You can't find a single thing that you like about president Trump, yes?

What do you and the left stand for in September 2018?

Why should voters vote for your left in 2018?

Who in the current congress would you say most represents your political views?

This is not really off topic because it goes to the heart of why you are objecting to this article's view of saying that Trump's economy is a success.

You don't have to answer any of my questions, unless you want to make a point that supports your comments?

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 12, 2018:

Brad: Do you realize what you just said? The reason they are buried with a hundred negative sites means more financial people think it is not good than good. It also indicates the majority is right and you just can't accept it.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 11, 2018:

T: Give it up, you are just being a child. Do yourself a favor and look up the difference between assertion, implication, and inference. Here, I will save you the trouble

Commonly Confused Words: infer / imply. Both verbs have to do with the communication of information. The difference between the two is that imply refers to giving information, while infer refers to receiving information. Imply means to strongly suggest the truth or existence of something that is not expressly stated. Infer means to draw a conclusion from that implication.

In other words you make assertions. They are implied. I draw inferences from those implications. What you are saying and what you imply may not be the same thing. What I infer or conclude from your implications may not be the same as your assertions. Have you ever heard of dog whistle statements.? They say one thing, but really mean something else.

If you say that I'm suffering from cognitive impairment and I'm a narcissist, you say that it is wrong for me to infer and conclude that you are implying I'm a dysfunctional. This is what you call twisting words and putting words in your mouth.

What would you call somebody who is both cognitively impaired and a narcissist?..Do you have a name for that? You need to go to an English class.

Give it up. Jack and everybody else could care less about you proving others call me a narcissist. Go home and do your English home work and learn some manners while you are at it.

Brad on September 11, 2018:

Jack

As usual Mike Russo's links are not facts, they are biased reporting against Trump?

If you don't believe me try and google something good about the Trump economy and it will be buried with a hundred negative cites.

Here is the link I was mentioning in my previous comment

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boUrPlH3Rnc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 11, 2018:

Deal! And that is IF Trump party makes it that far.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 11, 2018:

Jack: Here are some facts...hot off the press. Oh I know Brad doesn't like me posting links. He would rather that I just post my opinion, so that he can discredit it over and over again. Now whether you buy these as facts or not is your prerogative.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fac... via @nbcnews

The Logician from now on on September 11, 2018:

Well Jack, while PP has to keep spinning his web of lies here, and a close look at what he says in his last comments still proves me right while he doesn’t even see it just take a look at these replies to PP’s comments.

My Two Pennies

20 months ago from United States

So you have to misquote me to and lie to make your point? How embarrassing, small, and lacking of substance as expected. I would love for you to show where I used the phrase "dumb liberal elitist," or are you so desperate that you'll exaggerate again, like when Hillary "won by 9 million..."? I have never used that phrase in any of my hubs.

You are the one that used the word "dumb," (far below my vocabulary) along with "fat" to describe Trump supporters. Remember Mr Hypocrite? Your arrogance is a testament to this hub and reflective of the elitists losers that lost this election for the dems.

AUTHOR

My Two Pennies

20 months ago from United States

"I give you facts and you discount them. I was wrong about Hillary, it is 2.9 million. You twist my words into things I did not say." - You're the one that added another 6 million with a ridiculous over-exageration and then say we twist your words.... Get real Mr. Victim.

Although you may truly be that vain and narcissistic, rest assured that I have better things to do with my time (sure I speak for the other commentators you were just lashing out at, and are now trying to use in your perpetuation of victimization) than conspire on how to get a loud mouthed leftist banned from a website. As far as slipping up, your lack of consistency has only given me a laugh and demonstrated your inability to provide real substance.

Here is the source of those comments -

https://hubpages.com/politics/A-Tribute-to-Liberal...

just examples of dozens of people calling out PP’s narcissistic and diabolical tactics he uses in comments, all of which I have copied. Rather than list here all the articles and comments where authors and hubber’s have said that PP twists your facts, puts words in your mouth, is a narcissist, basically everything I have said about him) I will withhold them until PP comments about what he is again, and every time he does I will be happy to reply with another different hubber’s comments with PP pointing out the same things I have said and these are posts I was not involved with going back years.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 11, 2018:

Leslie, That is very good. I am going to keep you to your word. I am coming back to this post next year and let’s revisit your predictions.

It is always nice to have some hard facts next to predictions by liberals.

In fact, I will do one better. I am going to cut and paste your comments to my main article. That way it will be memorialized for life.

Next year, either you will be worshipped as a prophet or be irrelevant as a charlatan and another Trump hater like Paul Krugman.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 11, 2018:

I wont make peace with any of them. They are personal and vicious. On purpose. And they get away with it.

And i am making a prediction. By this time next year, if Trump party still reigns, we will be back in recession, only 20 times worse, and many many rights will be gone.

Trump economy is the same old trickle up nonsense always plied by Republicans. Only Trump has empowered the filthy rich and those who get rich off human misery, such as private corporations and the Zio-Nazis of the world.

More laws to lock up more people so they can profit.

Trump news only.

Trump radio, state tv.

Back to stone ages for any but white judeo xtian male.

History repeating. IF Trump party stays in charge.

That is my opinion.

Brad on September 11, 2018:

Jack

That sounds like a great idea.

BTW, Today, I saw Trump 's economic advisor present the data for the economy from 2012 to today. And all of the criteria showed that from 2012 till Trump took office, the trend was down.

Each of the charts showed an immediate uptick when Trump took office and the trend was and is going up.

This puts to rest former president Obama's claim that he was responsible for the current economy. Not true factually, although facts are not important to the left, only when they swing it against the right.

Jack, do we really need any charts or data to see the improvement in the economy since Trump became president?

The current and trending US GDP alone tells the benefit of electing Trump as president. How can the left refute it, they can't because these are facts. Many on the left want to forecast doom and gloom, but they don't have any facts to support it.

And then there is the Tax Reduction that actually gave people back money that the left if they take congress will reverse in 2019. Trump's economic advisor also pointed to the data showing the positive effect of the Tax Reduction.

Trump didn't improve the US economy just by a single or a few changes, he has created a new US economic paradigm.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 11, 2018:

Leslie: I found my peace with Paula. It was a misunderstanding on my part. She wasn't telling me to leave the article. She was saying to just step away from Brad.

But, I'm beginning to realize T's insults and ridicules of me and others is very childlike and my replies are like a parent telling his unruly brat kid to straighten up. But he doesn't realize that.

With Brad it's another story. Brad likes to play the part of the parent by telling you how to reply to his questions. And as a parent, he is never satisfied with the answers. And I play the part of the child trying to please him.

The parent/child/ adult stimulus and response is from a body of work called transactional analysis, if you are interested. I think it can be applied to Trump as well. Guess who the child is in his scenario.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 11, 2018:

Brad, I agree. Let’s focus on my main topic. Keep the personal comments in check. What about my contention that the current economic boom is all due to Trump and he owns it? For better or worse. This latest speech by President Obama is just an attempt to claim credit when they are just the opposite. His policies was what kept the economy in a lull while now it is going full speed with new policies of Trump.

Brad on September 11, 2018:

Leslie and Mike

If you only spent this much time talking about the content?

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 11, 2018:

I’ve gone back to the beginning of comments. This conversation was going fine until T and Paula stepped in. Tag team trolling.

It happens a lot on hp.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 10, 2018:

T: Did you not say I was cognitively impaired? Did you not say I was a narcissists? Do you deny that you imply I'm a dysfunctional dumb sh*t liberal, along with all other liberals?. Have I just put words in your mouth?

You say I twist words when I'm shown in a bad light or just wrong. Isn't it interesting that you twisted the words "insults and ridicule" into just calling a spade a spade? Whether you realize it or not, you just put those words in my mouth.

You have so much to learn about decency. You are so full of yourself, You can't even recognize when you are attacking others and twisting words their words.

Here is a good example of what you think twisting is and putting words in others mouths. This is what you said

"What is insulting is the way you think you can put words in people’s mouth and twist what they say, everyone knows it and the only people who don’t are people like you who do it or liberals who simply can’t honestly criticize any liberal because liberals condone any tactic that they think keeps the truth from being revealed."

First off that is a run-on sentence and it doesn't make sense. Because you state liberals are criticizing liberals.

You stated that as a fact, but it is only your opinion or it could be from your conservapedia playbook. No matter, your intention is to insult and ridicule me and other liberals. Oh i'm sorry call a spade a spade.

So my reply to you is therefore, you think me and liberals approve of any tactic in order to hide the truth. The truth of what? Do you even know what truth you are talking about? I'm using a tactic right now. Am I hiding the truth? You are implying that we are liars.

Have I twisted things and put words in your mouth? Only you think that way. You have a lot to learn about assertions, implication, inference, and defense. As a matter of fact, you have a lot to learn about a lot of things. I don't think you mommy and daddy taught you how to be nice to others, at least not on hub pages. Do me and yourself a favor and please grow up and try looking in the mirror.

But then again, I don't think you have the capacity for introspection, because if you did, you would cut out this BS. You have never grown up and are a bully and a troll on hub pages. I can take all the BS you want to hand out.

Sorry Jack. I know what I said before, but I couldn't pass this up.

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

Once again you have to restate what I said to make it not exactly what I said- you really have a problem with what goes into your head and what comes out of it. In between it’s meaning gets distorted. However you are pretty accurate here until you say you twist every reply - I never said you twist every reply but you do it whenever you want to what people say that shows you in a bad light or just wrong, like now.

Not insults or ridicule, just calling a spade a spade. What is insulting is the way you think you can put words in people’s mouth and twist what they say, everyone knows it and the only people who don’t are people like you who do it or liberals who simply can’t honestly criticize any liberal because liberals condone any tactic that they think keeps the truth from being revealed.

Once again you show you are a glutton for punishment and I am getting tired of being the one to meet it out.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 10, 2018:

T: Lets see now. I am a cognitively, impaired, narcissist, who twist every reply to make it all about myself. And every time I open my mouth I demonstrate all of these dysfunctional qualities about myself. Thank you that's very kind of you. Oh did I leave anything out? Please feel free to add more insults and ridicule.

Brad on September 10, 2018:

Mike

"Brad: What does it have to do with the Trump economy? Trump has rolled back many of the financial regulations that Obama put in place to prevent another 2008 financial meltdown.

B:

Where is that meltdown today? Forecasting doom and gloom is not the topic. What is right or wrong about the results of the Trump economy. Nothing!

---------------------------

The banks and wall street always want less regulations. He already removed the cap on mom and pop savings and loans. That is what Reagan did and it created the savings and loan debacle of the 80's.

B:

Again, nothing to do with Trump's economy today. He is not like any other president, and his way of doing things is working out. What is your comment about the Trump economy, not your doom and gloom.

Actual facts today!

--------------------------------

In my view, it is just a matter of time before commercial banks and investment companies start merging their assets and it starts all over again. That's was the root cause of the meltdown of 2008.

B:

That wasn't the cause of the meltdown. And that problem never got fixed, did it?

-----------------------

And that's what it has to do with the Trump economy...And that is my final answer as well."

B:

Not really, it was all about Mike Russo's economy, oh wait Mike doesn't have an economy:)

-------------------------

And were the other questions for you in my comment too tough to answer?

Cherry picking!

-----------------------

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 10, 2018:

Sorry jack.....the ones engaging in personal attacks are you of the right. Check back and see.

Don’t lump me in with them.

Like I said before, I insult Trump, insult right wing policies: righties personally insult me. Personal and nasty.

Until you can acknowledge this and go after the culprits, it’s a hollow complaint, imo.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 10, 2018:

Brad: What does it have to do with the Trump economy? Trump has rolled back many of the financial regulations that Obama put in place to prevent another 2008 financial meltdown. The banks and wall street always want less regulations. He already removed the cap on mom and pop savings and loans. That is what Reagan did and it created the savings and loan debacle of the 80's.

In my view, it is just a matter of time before commercial banks and investment companies start merging their assets and it starts all over again. That's was the root cause of the meltdown of 2008. And that's what it has to do with the Trump economy...And that is my final answer as well.

Brad on September 10, 2018:

Randy

You were doing so well, but after this comment, I am going to have to add you to the list of drivebbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy commenters:) That club is getting bigger:)

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

PP I called you a narcissist long before I wrote that, I think more than once and repeatedly said it was because it’s always about you, you make everything about you. And once again you twisted what I said, I didn’t say you are a narcisist because you work your butt off, I said you work your butt off because you are a narcissist. See everytime you open your mouth you reveal exactly what I say about you and you evidently don’t even know it. On top of that I never said I work my butt off to deal with you as you say in your straw man, ever, cause it’s no work, you hand it to me on a silver platter! Lol and you don’t even know it.

Sorry Jack, hard to let it go when he hands it to me on a silver platter.

Brad on September 10, 2018:

Jack

Your comment should actually be addressed to the one that broached the subject, it was not I.

"Brad,

I have written about the last recession and won’t repeat it here. I agree the people responsible, including some in Congress, were never punished.

B:

Again this is Mike Russo's point. My point is that the $1.5 Trillion didn't go to help the victims of those companies that were bailed out.

------------------------

We the tax payers were forced to bail these companies out. Also, the laws that were put in place did not fix any of the problems that lead up to the housing crisis and in fact made it worse with the added regulations and preventing the small banks from lending...

B:

The banks did even lend money to other banks, I don't know about any regulators for that?

---------------------------

The most damaging were the actions of the Federal Reserve which kept interest rate near zero for 8 long years and created a new term called quantitative easing which is another word for printing money.

B:

The FRB along with Federal agencies that authorize loans were part of the problem. The FRB kept the bubble growing, and had they increased the interest rate at all, many of these new loans would have failed, And during the almost 2 year bubble increases in the interest rate didn't happen, but if the FRB did increased them, the bubble might have just ruptured instead of bursting.

Even after the burst, the FRB kept investing $40 billion a month on these bundled derivative loans. Why did they do that?

---------------------------------------

del if u wish

Brad on September 10, 2018:

Mike

you say

"Mike Russo

2 hours ago from Placentia California

I have been on many forums and have published 69 articles, many of which are on niche web sites. My articles have over 80,000 views. My hub score has been in the mid 90's for years. I'm telling you this, not because I'm a narcissist as some falsely claim, but it should speak to my experiences on hub pages."

B:

You have 68 articles in 6 years, and you haven't published an article in the last 8 weeks. When was the last time?

And for not writing hubs, and only positing comments on other people's hubs and participating in Forums, Hubpages gives you a hubber score of 94?

I thought Hubpages was about writing hubs, and forums were there to stimulate writing hubs.

Now you are going to counter this and mention that my hubber score is 30 and I am jealous. Doesn't it make more sense that hubpages is biased , like google, facebook and twitter to the extreme left.

That would account for why you have a 94, certainly not for commenting and messaging! And it would account for my hubber score of 30. And hp doesn't feature most of my hubs, and why is that?

How is commenting and messaging making hubpages, hubpages?

And how much do you have to put into it, when you mostly submit links instead of writing?

This is not personal, it speaks to the facts.

1. You have a score of 94

2. You haven't published a hub in at least the last 8 weeks.

3. You submit links rather than writing in both your comments and your forums.

4. You have 68 published hubs in the last 6 years.

5. And you are on the extreme left in your political viewpoint.

As for the hp bias, I cannot substantiate that with actual facts, but I have written a number of articles using their data and circumstantial evidence.

Circumstantial evidence has convicted many defendants in court decisions of murder. Circumstantial evidence is that powerful!

del if u wish

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 10, 2018:

Brad,

I have written about the last recession and won’t repeat it here. I agree the people responsible, including some in Congress, were never punished. We the tax payers were forced to bail these companies out. Also, the laws that were put in place did not fix any of the problems that lead up to the housing crisis and in fact made it worse with the added regulations and preventing the small banks from lending...

The most damaging were the actions of the Federal Reserve which kept interest rate near zero for 8 long years and created a new term called quantitative easing which is another word for printing money.

Brad on September 10, 2018:

Mike

What does this have to do with the Trump economy today?

-------------------------------

"Jack: One thing free market enterprise and capitalism never take into account is human nature. One of the causes of the financial meltdown in 2008 was greed and corruption. Goldman Sachs and many others were using credit default swaps to insure their selling of toxic assets to own their own customers, knowing full well they were going down the tubes; Goldman then reeked the benefits of those swaps. It was just like shorting the market.

The credit default swap market was global and at its peak was worth 60 trillion. Iceland was the first one to bite the dust and that started the whole domino effect of the financial meltdown.

B:

Trump economy?

-------------------------

I watched 13 hours of the congressional investigations against Goldman and AIG and all they did was slapped their hands. As a matter of fact, they demanded to get their "clawback" commissions from the TARP money. It's called "white collar crime."; nobody went to jail. If you and I steal a loaf of bread we can go to jail."

B:

What does this have to do with Trump at all?

The $1.5 Trillion dollars spent by GW Bush and his congress, as well as Barack Obama and his congress didn't do anything for the victims of those companies that actually caused the economic failure in 2008.

B:

This was you first diversion and that was seven days ago.

You could have at least applied it to the Trump economy!

And you are going to lecture about going off topic!

---------------------------------------------

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 10, 2018:

T: You words:

"If I am such a sicko why would you even bother working your butt off to combat me except that it always has to be all about you, the definition of a narcissist, which evidently you have no qualifications either to call anyone a narcissist, which makes you a hypocrite to boot. Put that in your butt and work it."

Randy Godwin from Southern Georgia on September 10, 2018:

Mike, it's called being "trumpnotized"! :lol:

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

Well I can’t blame you for that but I do thank you for allowing me to have my say and PP his. You are a stand up fella.

So I’ll look around and see if I can actually hijack a hub page. Still not sure just how it can be done, monopolize yes, dominate, yes, hijack? Wellllll I’ll give it a try as soon as I figure out how.

I will say this, have you heard Obama’s criticism of the NYT op ed guy while on the campaign trail? He said the guy is nuts for allowing Trump to implement 90% of his policies and the guy only stopping 10% as he said. So an C President is saying an administration official ignoring his oath and successfully working to subvert 10% of the elected President’s promised policies didn’t do enough. Obama not only approves of it but says more should be done by traitors in the administration.

By the way I heard there were a whopping 750 people at his rally!

Trump’s rallies! So many thousands it’s hard to count. Yeah, Obama’s economy totally rejected by last election nationally and state wide - that’s the guy we want rallying his troops.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 10, 2018:

T, I am not going to be dragged into your debate with PP... My advice to both is to just let it go and live to debate another day...

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

Jack pointing out the tactics he used does not equate to an attack while all he has done to me is launch personal attacks from his diabolical methods. Instead of sitting on the fence here, Jack, tell me where I am wrong?

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

There he goes again, demonstrating everything I say about him yet he has no clue he is doing it- cognitive impairment of some sort or else he is plain diabolical and knows what he is doing. He can’t stand to let it go but has to try to rationalize his behavior while ignoring points he can’t rationalize like he puts words in your mouth and twists what you say - he always starts with restating what you say like this

“So according to you, I work my butt off to combat you and that makes me a narcissist”

I never said that was why he is a narcissist, read the comments. Now he has raised that straw man he tries to equate me pointing out his diabolical methods with “working my butt off” so he can then conclude I am narcissistic - you see he is really diabolical and read the comments with that perspective and you will have to agree he is not someone to take seriously.

Here ya go people, this is why I say all you have to do is read his comments closely and it is obvious he puts words in your mouth and twists what you say - he always starts with restating what you say which So according to you, I work my butt off to combat you and that makes me a narcissists

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 10, 2018:

Dear all,

I am glad this article have created so much angst among some readers. As the author, it is always nice to get readers and better when a reader make comments and repeated responses. This topic has generated tremendous views and helped with my daily payout.

As to the comment regsrding staying with topic, I always err on the side of allowing postings to go thru since I am not a believer of censorship.

I hope everyone will use some self constraint and only engage in conversation up to three back and forth exchanges. I try to do the same though sometimes I just can’t help but respond.

I also hope everyone be civil and not attack the person you disagree with but engage in discussion of various ideas and policies. That is the only way we can advance the conversation and perhaps reach a better understanding of all sides.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 10, 2018:

I have been on many forums and have published 69 articles, many of which are on niche web sites. My articles have over 80,000 views. My hub score has been in the mid 90's for years. I'm telling you this, not because I'm a narcissist as some falsely claim, but it should speak to my experiences on hub pages.

I have found what causes forums and comments to go off topic are two types of comments; those which insult and ridicule others character, mostly for the fun of it and those which never accept others replies because they feel their replies are not good enough to meet their standards. They will constantly hound for better answer and after answering many times they don't answer, they declare, the person has no answer, not that it has become an exercise in futility.

Both types not only cause off topic comments, but also create lengthy replies that "high-jack" the article or the topic. Yes and it is called high jacking the article on hub pages. I have seen that term used many times by others...end of story!

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

Brad, exactly, the liberal playbook, change the subject if you are wrong but NEVER admit you are wrong or else it will be one more talking point you memorized for naught. Lol

Brad on September 10, 2018:

Leslie

Why didn't you respond to my last comment to you? My comment there responded to your last comment. Remember, it started with 3 million more votes.

But instead of responding to that, you now change to gun control. I submit you didn't answer my comment is because you have no answers. Now, you want to distract and make this Trump economy article misdirected to your desires.

Once again, I would encourage you to write your own articles if this is your game.

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

Leave it to Leslie to compare America to Communist Russia under Stalin!

Truth is that is what she really wants America to become.

Before spewing polls Leslie should take a tip from Brad’s methodology of vetting “news”. Brad would first say how were those questions posed, what were the possible answers, what was the party and demographic make up of the sample, and probably 10 more questions that if answered would show stats Leslie is citing are either lies or poor polls misinterpreted to get a preconceived result. After the last election it’s hard to believe any liberal would trust the results of any polls, unless of course the poll gives them the answer they want - you’d think they learned their lesson after Hiliary didn’t win in a landslide.

The Logician from now on on September 10, 2018:

Jack, see this is the type of twisting PP does, even in leaving it’s all about him - he hijacked your hubpage? No one can possibly hijack a hub page, allowing comments is totally up to the author so if he thinks he can hijack a hub page he doesn’t understand you can’t hijack something you have been given permission to use or comment on. But of course PP thinks HE has the “power”, “people power” you know.

Everytime he opens his mouth he demonstrates a narcissistic way of viewing everything. I could demonstrate that on all his comments but it is there for anyone with discernment to see so why should I waste your time and mine? He is just pathetic, like how he tried to convince Paula into believing his BS about telling Brad to go to try and dupe her into making up, while he ignored totally that Paula agreed with me that he twists things to say other than is meant.

“hate to agree with T but you DO put words in people's mouths...or twist what they say. I overlook it because I know that's a symptom of the disease of liberalism. I always try to give liberals a break because they're so damned pathetic.“

That’s really why he struck back at her but he can’t make up some excuse because he knows he puts words in people’s mouth and twists things - he is so full of it.

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 10, 2018:

Leslie, i don’t know where you are getting those numbers but they are misleading at best. The abortion issue is 50%, and has been since 1973 when the case was decided by the Supreme Court. Our country is evenly divided and that is one reason elections has been close going back to Gore vs. Bush. If anything, 70% of the people want our borders secured.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 10, 2018:

70% want gun control. 70% want safe and legal abortion. 70% want rich to pay more taxes. 70% want freedom from religion. His disapproval rating is 60%.

You will never see it, this I know. It’s an endless stupid battle to hold onto power, while the rest of us just want to share it.

There will be myriad articles, people....even testimony proving this election was a farce, but it won’t matter.

You want what you want and that’s that.

https://youtu.be/GJa3MCBLWk4

https://youtu.be/C5Uey_jekNY

Pick one. Then Pooh Pooh it and insult.

“The only thing that matters is who counts the votes”—Joseph Stalin

Brad on September 09, 2018:

Jack

That is fine. But, I don't believe in agreeing to disagree in distractions. The whole point of your article was the Trump economy. But the comments didn't stay on topic. I agreed with the list of facts you provided, but they weren't discussed in the comments.

I knowingly followed the distractions to show that the distractions were wrong themselves. It is not about changing minds, it is about making arguments to support your position.

Anyway, del my comments

Jack Lee (author) from Yorktown NY on September 09, 2018:

My general attitude, with regards to comments is to refrain from more than 3 exchanges between any two individual. After that, you are not going to sway anyone...

Just agree to disagree and move on.

Brad on September 09, 2018:

Jack

What say you, it is your article?

I am OK with any decision.

The Logician from now on on September 09, 2018:

Jack, I am sorry too that it won’t happen on PP’s side, I’d prefer making you more money here whipping his “butt” or at least working it off.

Brad, tell Leslie Trump won the electoral college 304 to 227 - not even close, you know if Hiliary had won the electoral college and Trump won the popular vote Leslie and all the liberals would be calling us sore losers.

On top of legitimately winning an election which Obama himself said repeatedly could never be rigged, Trump won 30 out of 50 states and more counties than any candidate on our side since Ronald Reagan."

Overall, Trump won 2,622 counties while Clinton won 490, most of which were much more populous. Still, the shifts were large enough for a number of pickups. Trump snagged 220 counties that voted for President Obama in 2012, while Clinton poached 17 that went for Mitt Romney.

But of course Hiliary should be elected because she won an election nobody was running for - the popular vote.

Brad on September 09, 2018:

Leslie

B:

You and Mike just like the path not taken, and I mean staying on topic. Your comments have the universal effect of being off topic in most articles. You use the comment as a sounding board for the irrelevant, vague and ambiguous comments of the left.

I will follow you and Mike off the path as long as the author allows it.

--------------------------------------

"Erm.....Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump. White people put him there.

B:

3 million more popular votes, and what is their importance in winning the presidential election. NONE! It is the Electoral College that put Donald Trump in the WH.

What White People, do you mean Americans?

If you want to know where those 3 million votes can be found, they are all in CA. And CA gave all of its 55 EC votes to Hillary. Yet, Trump trounced Hillary in the EC 304 to 230.

The Hispanic population in CA is greater than the white population ever so slightly. And we don't know how many of the illegal aliens voted in the election.

B:

"Since 1996, a federal law has prohibited non-citizens from voting in federal elections, punishing them by fines, imprisonment, inadmissibility, and deportation"

CA along with many states doesn't allow voters to be questioned or provide identification when voting. So, we don't know the answer to how many aliens voted in the 2016 presidential election.

-------------------------------

America is not blueblood white privilege anymore.

B:

What is blueblood?

What is white privilege?

Is this a racist statement against white people?

--------------------------------

You can not stop the will of the majority, which does not favor Trumpism.

B:

What majority doesn't favor "Trumpism". Does using this term make your comment any better?

-------------------------------

You can only contain it in chains, which Trumpists apparently have no problem doing.

B:

Vague, ambiguous and irrelevant statement! What does it mean to you?

-----------------------------

We must rely on the goodwill of those Republicans (not Trumpists) who rule to wake up. And fast."

B:

You should be on the DNC public relations?

Where is the goodwill of the Democrats? (not those afflicted with TDS)

---------------------------

What do you now have to say about the success of the Trump generated economy?

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 09, 2018:

Jack: I'm so sorry. T and I have high jacked your article and made it our personal argument. It won't happen again, at least not from my side.

Mike Russo from Placentia California on September 09, 2018:

T: You almost got me there kid. I forgot I even wrote that article. In that sense, I am hypocritical.

So according to you, I work my butt off to combat you and that makes me a narcissists, but you don't work your butt off to combat me..really? It's just comes easy for you to insult and ridicule liberals. All you need is your Conservapedia play book.

At least I backup my assertions with credible sources. Your assertions of me are nothing more than your twisted opinion of me to just simply put me down, because in your view I'm some dumb a** liberal, just like all the other liberals that you categorize into boxes.

This is from that Article on Does Trump Suffer from NPD? These symptoms fit Trump's behavior almost perfectly, not mine.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5), individuals with NPD, typically have most or all of the following symptoms:

1. Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others.attractiveness, etc.

2. Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions

3. Needing constant admiration from others

4. Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others

5. Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain

6.Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs

7. Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them

8. Pompous and arrogant demeanor

9. It should be noted NPD is not a psychological disorder, but rather a personality disorder.

Leslie McCowen from Cape Cod, USA on September 09, 2018:

Erm.....Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump. White people put him there.

America is not blueblood white privilege anymore.

You can not stop the will of the majority, which does not favor Trumpism.

You can only contain it in chains, which Trumpists apparently have no problem doing.

We must rely on the goodwill of those Republicans (not Trumpists) who rule to wake up. And fast.

The Logician from now on on September 09, 2018:

"…things will never change in America"

Obviously you are referring to your idol Barack Obama who made part of his historic journey to the White House on foot, after promising to "begin again the work of remaking America" in his inaugural address.

Well Leslie you got that right, "things" like remaking America into Obamaville will never happen, your kind tried it and we rejected it...resoundingly.

The rest of what you say is the product of your delusions, you really, really need to get help. It's you that is a problem, not everyone in America who disagrees with your delusions.