Why are Medical Personnel So Arrogant?
A nurse wrote a hub about people coming to the emergency room for a rash, in a condescending manner. This is a kind of arrogance, non-humble, non-caring response to a paying customer. Doctors and nurses live to serve the medical needs of others, to make a difference in quality of life and even in matters of life-or-death. Honestly, I have known many nurses, and nursing students as well. I saw their text books, and listened to their study sessions. The requirements are not impressive. It is probably more valuable for them to be able to memorize information on meds, to have a calm personality, and a good sense of discernment.
However, comments like the one I saw in the article are elitist. Here is my response to the nurse's article:
You need to be more fair-minded. I took some EMT courses. I was a bit surprised to listen to the EMT instructors complain about emergency calls at 3 a.m. They are there to do a job. If people did not call at night, there would be no night shift, no job for them! Sure, it would be nice to sit and chat inside the ambulance all night. But, everyone else works for a living, so why not EMTs? Why not nurses, who are vastly overpaid compared to everyone else?
And, like you mention, the medical staff can barely answer any real questions. But, the bill comes for $20,000 for a 10-minute visit. Unlike every other service provider in town, the hospital does not have walk-ins. They only have "emergency". And, because they call it "emergency", they are going to charge you extra because you walked in. Every other business is competitive- but not medicine. Why? In a competitive market, one of the hospitals in town would open up a walk-in service to appeal to more customers. Other hospitals, to remain competitive, would be forced to provide the same service. But customer service is something very absent in medicine. Instead, the minimum threshold for interaction with customers seems to be speed and avoidance of creating lawsuits.
Shortage of Doctors
Medicine in America is intentionally short-supplied. In the '50's, a group lobbied successfully to reduce the training of doctors to just 50 campuses. And that is what has driven up the cost of medicine... and, apparently, created a kind of arrogance and superiority completely on the other side of the aisle from "service".
The control of health care is part of a much larger, evil plan to control people in general. The health care plan in the implementation process now is going to require injections people do not want, and likely do not need. Children receive vaccinations that Putin refused to give to Russians. The Czech president also refused to give HIN1 to his people. Czech scientists checked the H1N1 vaccines sent to them and discovered LIVE virus in the vaccines. The Polish president, Lech Kacsynski went too far, calling it a conspiracy to poison and dumb down the population. Weeks later, responding to an invitation to Russia, he was redirected to a military base where his plane was shot down. A clean-up crew arrived on scene before some hunters could get to the crash. The clean-up crew were shooting survivors- and the hunters (all now dead) caught it on film. The videos are available on the 'net.
Expect doctors and nurses to become more and more powerful, conceited, and arrogant. Expect medical care to become less "optional" and more "required".
High Pay in America
American doctors and nurses think they are compensated at the current level because they have a hard job, and they deserve it. Not true! Foreign countries have plenty of doctors and nurses- who are paid at rates comparable to the rates of their countrymen. Yet, in America, people in the medical industry receive compensation on par with professional athletes.
As the link from 'burned out social worker' relates below, these nurses believe they deserve six-figure annual pay. Well, here is news: You only earn this much because of government intervention.
That is correct. The gov closed medical training facilities in the 1950s. They did this, as policeman (who often must perform work less desirable than hospital care) say, as part of a "long con". Working a long con requires patience and an excellent team. But, the government has such a team. A few people at the top make decisions. Workers at the bottom of the pyramid of authority have almost no idea why they do what they do.
Government workers also receive total compensation (pay + benefits) about double that of their private sector counterparts. They do what they are told.
So, in America, medical schools are limited to just 50 programs. So, in 60 years, the number of doctors has declined. Market forces drive up pay. For some bizarre reason, everyone else in the market then says they also should have higher pay, charge more, and so on. So, medical equipment suppliers charge more for stainless steel tools. Really, they are tooled only a little more than a butter knife, and the metal costs only a fraction more. But, they charge 100 times the price of a butter knife for a scalpel. A pillow in the hospital costs $50 (at least it did in 1976, when I had an overnight stay). Everything costs more: hotel rooms, sheet cleaning, pillows, and even pills.
Pills, by the way, are made by "scientists" who travel the world looking for groups of people who do not suffer from particle ailments. Then, they check their diets for the food which protects them from that ailment. They take the food back to their lab, refine it into a "pill" and then charge you a huge fee for it. For example, there is a village in Russia which has almost zero incidence of cancer. They learned it is because they eat peaches, crack open the pit, and eat the slender "almond" inside. The interior nut has special poison in it- the carcinogen only becomes active if it encounters a cancer cell.
People should read the Bible. In there, it plainly tells us that God gave us fruit "for the healing of the nations." In another place, "every green thing" is given for healing of ailments.
My brother-in-law is a nurse in Sweden. He attended nursing college for two years, and worked an internship throughout. He now earns just enough to live and pay his student loan payment.
In Ukraine, where my wife's family lives, people go to the doctor and pay cash directly into the hand of the doctor or dentist. Health care there is affordable.
So, what is broken here in America? Answer: government intervention which limits the number of people who can enter the profession by limiting school programs which produce doctors.
A Nurse Responds
Here is a response from one nurse. He epitomizes the attitude I'm talking about:
Mark, RN 16 hours ago
If you develop a rash, with itching and or mild burning as the only symptoms, go the f*****g pharmacy, buy a box of benadryl for $3, and some hydrocortisone cream for $3, and suck it up. Wait a day, call your doctor, if they cant see you, go to an urgent care, not an ER.
Now, if you are worried you have an infection, or blood clot, or some deadly disease, fine, go tonthe ER. But don't get upset when a nurse takes one look and tells you to have a seat. There will be a 3 hour wait because of all the other minor problems clogging up the ER. Take some responsibility for your own health.
Mark, here is a quote from webmd.com, "Most skin rashes aren't dangerous. But some can be deadly." Others: Mark's advice appears to be poorly given. You may save yourself a few thousand dollars with Benadryl, but you better be sure it is only a "rash". Also, most rashes are the result of fungus, and can be neutralized with vinegar. They don't tell you that at the hospital. It's not profitable.
Doris James MizBejabbers from Beautiful South on February 28, 2020:
I live in the South, and I must say that I've met very few arrogant nurses. I have met a few arrogant doctors though. So when you meet up with one, do what we do, fire the bastard and find a genuinely nice person to administer to your medical needs.
Jeanette Mcdowell on April 30, 2018:
Nurses are not the only profession where people go to school. So stop thinking of nurses as God's gift to humanity. Many are arrogant and treat staff horribly and treat patients as if they are not worth anything. Plus there are alot of professions who earn more so nurses stop thinking your shit dont stink
Amy on August 24, 2016:
Before I became a nurse I was a full-time firefighter. I can tell you that what I do now is more mentally draining and often times more stressful than firefighting. I had a set schedule and I had guaranteed vacation time plus I worked 10 to 11 24 hour shifts a month and could sleep at night assuming we did not have a fire or medical call. Sometimes I wish I never left that profession because I miss the brotherhood and sisterhood and the teamwork. I am a full-time nurse and I find this article insensitive and misleading. I work very hard and deal with situations that most people could not deal with. Our shifts are 12 hours long 3 days a week but the reality is I work over 12 hours because of charting and last minute issues with patients. I cannot remember the last time I got to clock out for a lunch break. I usually just grab something to eat and sit outside of the patient's room and eat at one of the ICU desks and there are nights I am not able to eat because my patient may be unstable or I may have stable patients who are constantly on the call light. I work with burn patients and do total care in a burn ICU. I change bandages and apply solutions to different dressings, I monitor ventilated patients and sometimes those on CVVHD dialysis. I also clean and bathe all of my patients and deal with blood, urine, airway secretions, and feces on a daily basis. I handle medications and have to know what they are used for and educate my patients on them before I administer them and I do detailed assessments on all of my assigned patients. I work on night shift and we do not have any doctors in our unit at night and have to rely on the ER doctor for critical emergencies. I constantly monitor vital signs and if a patient's BP drops I am allowed to make interventions without a doctor to bring their BP up and sometimes I have to resort to levophed as a lifesaver drug for patient's who are about to code without intervention. We are the front line for the patients and are often the ones making life saving calls. I do not just change bedpans, give baths, pass out meds and babysit. I am there to protect the sick and to comfort their families as they watch their loved one go through the healing process. I love what I do but I guarantee most people would not want this job. Should that merit getting paid more? No, but do we get paid for what we actually do? The answer is no. I am a nurse and my job is to know, to think on my feet, to care and to act. I love how people want to compare my job to other countries. What you have to realize is that in other countries they often have better vacations that the typical American does. Did you know that I only had a week of vacation last year? It was hard to get that time off. I also get phone calls at least one to 2 days a week about coming in extra if they didn't already ask me on my normal work nights. In some countries they have almost 2 months of vacation a year. So if America wants to adopt these vacation practices from other countries who pay less then they can consider cutting back our pay, otherwise no thank you.
Carolyne Shapiro on May 08, 2016:
Wow - have read this entire thread and must say there are good points made on both sides of the fence. Having worked in health care my whole working life and being the daughter of a nurse mom and M.D. Harvard grad psychoanalyst father - I had no clue what awaited me in the real world when I started working in the field. I had a charmed life growing up medically for sure - excellent doctors and professional courtesy extended always, seemingly the best of care. Being a three time cancer survivor, (2003, 2005 & 2007) I learned quickly and truly the hard way that there are a lot of seriously arrogant physicians out there as well as really uncaring and actually downright cruel nurses. It was at times pretty brutal for me and a real wake up call for myself for sure and for my husband who has been in the music industry his whole life having little knowledge of how people can be treated medically (meaning how callous some professionals can come off). He really was amazed by the way people treated one another - doc to patient yes but also what patients expected from their docs - serious entitlement. It can all be so miserable. Though hard to find - there are however some amazing, kind, caring and ethical doctors and nurses too and they deserve serious kudos indeed. Our healthcare system is horrific at best and yes - people do use the ER for reg treatment far too often hence the crowding and wait and so on and it is highly annoying for the person who has a true emergency. I get it. I do not know the answer. I do know though that both doctors and nurses work very hard and at times it can be a really unrewarding deal especially when one is dealing with seriously unappreciative people as is often the case sadly. I guess we all just need to try to keep it moving - remember why it is we went into the healthcare filed to begin with and try to be the example and do the best we can by each other. Dignity and respect should simply be givens and not "specialties" - pollyanna as it might sound, it is a lot nicer when ill to be given kindness and not be shamed or blamed. Just saying...having to visit a doctor these days can be a nightmare and it is a shame as really - it does not have to be like that. I have two excellent physicians I see on a regular basis and know literally two as well who are emergency room doctors. Busy as they are, what makes them so great is not only that they are fine doctors - they are also kind no matter how stressed, busy, annoyed or tired they are. Same with nurses. It is easy to get annoyed yes but sometimes when you take a deep breath or a time out it can make all the difference in the world for someone else who might be in need. Just my two cents - great thread for sure. CS
toogoodanurse on December 12, 2014:
Simply put...If you don't like how we do nursing in the United States, then stay your $!!# in Ukraine.
Mel on February 24, 2014:
I agree with this post. Not all nurses are arrogant but the majority of doctors have a swollen ego bigger than Texas.
When they are paid so well, they need to treat the patient with dignity and a little respect and try to help the patient get healthy. And listen to what the patient is saying and take them
Alex on October 29, 2013:
Amazing post. Respect and congratulations.
Phoibe on December 16, 2012:
Nice analysis of the economics. The shortage of doctors is the main factor driving their prices up. Not because they are best or brightest!
And because doctors are in short supply, they can be arrogant if they want to be. Not long ago, I was talking to a nurse at The Goat --nickname for a big California HMO. She commented that many of the doctors at The Goat are "totally obnoxious." Oddly enough, she seemed to like it. But at the salary she's getting, why worry about it?
Part of the problem is that in California we don't let NP's run a drop in clinic. So for many people, the ER is the only option. Wasteful. But it keeps the doctors' salaries high. And it preserves the mystique!
YeahSure on November 20, 2012:
Well, here in Hawaii nurses earn $55 an hour. Try and calculate that? They think they are still underpaid and I know nurses personally. Believe me they don't give a crap about nursing care! They only care about that paycheck so they can "live the life" at the expense of patients.
Man from Modesto (author) from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) on November 04, 2012:
Your own personal experience may be a result of your own personality. People tend to see in others mostly themselves. In our conversation, you seem pretty nice.
An anti-vaccine site: http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/two-new-m...
Another blogger about vaccines: http://door32.wordpress.com/category/depopulation-...
Did you watch the TED video?
nurse377 on November 04, 2012:
Where do you meet these scum people.. I find there are very few of that type. People are people no matter where you go.. There are good and bad days. Now this vaccine thing. Vaccines actually help the majority of people. The benefit outways the risk. Why are you so upset with American health care system? I would almost be certain you are not even American? What can you do to help find a solution?
Man from Modesto (author) from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) on November 04, 2012:
For the record, I do not think that arrogance is the ONLY attribute of nurses and doctors. I have met more scum doctors than good doctors. This is true. But, I have met some good men who were doctors. And, I have friends who are nurses.
The issue of condescension and perceived superiority (on the part of some) over their clients is absolutely repulsive and troublesome, however.
Man from Modesto (author) from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) on November 04, 2012:
This thread follows my response to a nurse complaining about her customers. These are people with issues that concern them or cause them fear, or even great fear. She is paid very nicely and most likely has excellent benefits. Yet, she is arrogant enough to post online her complaints about those she serves, and who fund her much greater than average compensation.
Unfortunately, I have heard this attitude often. And, it is a problem.
This problem needs to be addresses. Historically, when one group of people attains power over others, (and Obamacare sets the basis for great power to this industry), AND they look down on another group (like Irish, Ukrainians, or Jews), then the result is always the same: justified genocide.
You will probably think that is completely unreasonable. But, what were the British, Russians, and Germans thinking when they persecuted their fellow humans?
Before you respond, please do a little research on the true history of vaccines. Do you know that vaccines kill far more than they help?
nurse377 on November 04, 2012:
Yes, they may complain because the ER is not a walk in clinic. It is staffed with people who are specialized in a particular type of care. Today ER's are burdended with non emergent needs. It is also a business that has to be able to turn a profit to keep those doors open for emergencies. I understand there is a need for 24 hour clinics. There has always been a need. Most people wait until the next day and go see the MD. There arepeople who have no means to pay for health care and there fore have no doctor to visit the next day. Who is to absorb this cost? The people who do have insurance... That is why the cost continue to rise. Probably if you didn't name call people you would get more favorable responses and could begin to work on solutions. Nurses do not utilize X ray equipment on a regular basis. This would reguire extra training. They use X-ray technicians or perform this under the physicians credentials. I am concenrned that you suggest somehow we lower the standard of care. Taking an X ray invovles an exam, an order, staff to perform it, digital or film to display it, someone and someplace to store it and someone to read it.
There are four major hosptials serving the Modesto area: Stanislaus Surgical Hospital, Memorial Medical Center, Doctors Medical Center, and Kaiser Permanente - Modesto Medical Center
I only see that Kaiser offers after hour non emergent walk in care.
I am sure that Stanislaus County Health Department has care or can make referrals for people on limited or no income. There are cities nation wide that offer free and sliding scale payment for people without insurance. I agree many people could benefit from these types of clinics offering extended hours of care. However, the point remains that ER's are not for non emergent care. Sometimes it is difficult to know what is and isnt' an emergency but, most of the time people do know. Most of these hositals are not government owned they are private coorporations. We don't a solution may be more government of state facilities that offer extended care.. I do question though.... do people come to the ER because, they don't have insurance or a way to pay and they know the ER will take care of them? Remember ER's are not government facilites they are private. Everyone in healthcare wants to provide a service that will benefit the patient. We are all in this together so, please don't try to divide us.
Man from Modesto (author) from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) on November 03, 2012:
I think you missed my point. My point is: doctors and nurses actually complain about people entering the ER, and yet have no other walk-in service.
Further, much of the ability of modern hospitals is thanks to engineering: X-ray machines, MRI machines, etcetera... all engineers. Then, a nurse comes in, operates the X-ray machine or MRI, and then considers herself to be some kind of super person. But, is she really more talented than an equipment operator?
Example: an ultrasound in a hospital clinic cost $2,000 just for use of the machine. However, for about a year now, there is a small business in Modesto who will provide an ultrasound for $200. And, you can walk in anytime.
nurse377 on November 03, 2012:
This passionate viewpoint you hold towards American health care is biased and unfounded. Reviewing actual facts may help your perception of the situation. The Bible also says not to judge others.
“The standard of healthcare in Ukraine is extremely neglected with a severe lack of medical facilities and medicines.”
I am not aware of any ER that can process a patient and be done with them in 10 minutes. You are clearly not being rational. The average cost of an ER visit out of pocket expense is around 500.00 to 2000.00. The ER is intended for emergencies. We realize that you may not always be able to determine an emergency. Most ER visits are not emergencies but, occur because people do not have access to care anywhere else. Blaming the very people who work in this system is not the answer. There are many websites that have accurate information such as the CDC. Healthcare today is a priority based service. Lives depend on that. Nurses are good people and deserve more. I challenge you to go to college for four years fulltime and become a nurse before passing judgment on them.
Man from Modesto (author) from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) on September 06, 2012:
Okay, your base pay is $23 per hour. And so, for a 14-hour day, you make:
(8 x 23) + (6 x 23 x 1.5) = 184 + 207 = $391 per day. With 4 weeks off per year, that means you earn:
48 weeks x 4 days per week x $391 = $75,072 per year.
It also makes a big difference which economic region you live in. The cost of living in Georgia is much lower than in California, for example.
The median income of Americans is just $26,364. This means you receive almost three times as much pay as more than half of all other Americans.
PS- the average nurses salary in 2012 is hovering around $81,000 per year.
Sandra RN on September 05, 2012:
Gladly, I make $23.00 /hr. Well below your calculated average.
Man from Modesto (author) from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) on August 11, 2012:
Nurses do the same exact thing all over the world. They receive pay comparable to the salaries of all other workers in their regions. You left out your annual income.
Don't forget, I KNOW nurses who work "14 hour days". They do that 3, maybe 4 days a week and have the other days off. They also can afford more than a few week and two-week vacations each year.
Many of the tasks you listed at the end of your article are performed by volunteers in many hospitals, for free. Pastors sit with the dying all the time- and they are not paid extra for it.
Let everyone know this: what is your hourly base pay, and what is your annual income, before taxes?
The average hourly pay for a nurse in the U.S. is $33.23. This is about $70,000 per year. That average includes the low-paid foreigners who come in to fill the ranks, and the nursing home providers, et al.
That is just base pay. Because of the strong unions in nursing, for those "14 hour" shifts, the average payout would be (33.23x8) + (33.23x6x1.5) = $565.
Meanwhile, a sergeant with 5 years of experience makes just under $30K per year. I served in both the Marines and in the Army. Ever had someone shoot at you? SCUD missiles exploding overhead? Mortar attack?
What about the EMTs who arrive on scene for murders and decapitations at vehicle accident scenes? EMTs can even be shot at and have been killed when called to respond to domestic violence. They average $14.60/hour. Are you really worth 2.28x as much as them?