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The Native Americans Discovered European Savages in the New World

Europeans Discover "Savages"

When the Europeans discovered the Americas they decimated the Native Americans they found there with smallpox, alcohol, and even more often - they simply murdered them. The Europeans with their advanced science and technology considered the Native Americans as "savages."

But the Native Americans were not interested in destroying all of the Europeans who came and invaded their lands. Sure, some Native Americans and some Native American tribes DID want to eradicate the European invaders, but by and large that was not a mindset reflective of the spiritual and cultural attitude of the Native Americans on a large scale. The Native Americans didn't have the inferior thoughts of thinking themselves superior, and this is exactly why they were superior to the European invaders.

"Live and Let Live - No One Owns The Earth"

And so the Native Americans went on about their business until it was too late. Truly, it was too late as soon as the Savages, the European invaders, invaded the Americas - for the blood thirst of the pale skinned races had spilled red all over Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and the Middle East for thousands of years. No, the Pale faces weren't anywhere near done spilling blood in their homeland of Europe, but they thought they'd enjoy some killing over across the pond.

Native Americans PROVE That The United States Is a Terrorist Nation


First Nation Tribe Location Map


What is a Native American?

Arguments of definitions and semantic things are ridiculous, self serving, and childish. These discussions, where someone like myself who was born in the "new world," demands they too be called a Native American, only serves to diminish the lives and murders of the 20 million or so Natives that were living here before the European's came and slaughtered far more persons than the Nazis did European Ashkenazi Jews - and the Europeans of all creeds and nationalities that participated in this slaughter did this out of the same hatred. I've not seen any holocaust museums erected in remembrance of the Native Americans murdered in the American Genocide. I suppose that that is because Native Americans do NOT monopolize the world's Banking and Mass Media industries.

Let's get it straight, shall we? I'm a stickler for definitions. Whenever someone capitalizes the "N" in Native American, then they are referring to the "American Indians." Whenever the "N" is NOT capitalized, then that refers to someone like myself, who was born a native of America.

Here's what I prefer. Native American - should mean those who are also called American Indians.

Those of us of any other race and born in America are American natives - but that's my preference.

This Modern World

I would never claim to be a Native American. I'm merely a American native who's mostly full of European genetic material. I'd never deny that my genes also have some Native American strains in them. I'm a modern man living in this modern world. I'm not sure I've ever even seen a reservation. I thoroughly enjoy the internet. I'm especially fond of air conditioning - without it, surely my computer would over heat!

So when I talk about capitalism, consumerism, and how we can't go on using up resources, because resources are finite, etc - I AM a part of the problem, and I suspect if you are reading this online, you are part of the problem as well. The question is, are either of us going to be part of the solution? The bigger still question is - what IS the solution?

We can eliminate Capitalism as being a relevant part of any perceived solution to the world's problems. Capitalism involves using more and more to produce and sell more and more. It is against the very fibers of capitalism to create products that last. Capitalism is an addiction. and the Addicts of capitalism are the world's single greatest problem, for it is they that destroy more of the environment than any others. Capitalism is supported by military conquests, as seen with American Corporate "persons" reaping and raping Arabia in the wake of the United States Military, the single greatest producer of pollution that the world has EVER known.

The Military Industrial Complex


Native American Cultures

Native Americans or "American Indians" are people just like Europeans. The fact that Native American individuals are people means they are all surely individuals full of flaws, but when the "white man" came to the Americas, he looked around and saw what he thought of as "savages,"

Surely I am superior to these. I have science, and technology that these lesser beings do not have! They are primitive savages, and do not know Jesus or capitalism, industry, or civilization!

And so the European man began to conquer. He had gunpowder, and flying pieces of lead - this was more effective than high velocity thin sticks of wood. He introduced the Native Americans to smallpox, and to alcohol. I've read that some Native American tribes already knew about and used alcohol, but by and large - the Natives hadn't spent untold millennial time frames evolving with it, and surely the first pale face to unleash the fury of distilled liquor upon the Natives knew he was taking advantage of them.

Smallpox and alcoholism are deadly diseases, and this is certain - but no disease in history has been so deadly as capitalism.

You take a crack addict - he's harmful to his community. But the executives of British Petroleum and Halliburton are money addicts, and their addictions are millions of times more deadly to the global community, for the global community includes all mankind, and all living things. Such monsters were never known to the Native Americans. Such savages as these European industrialist and capitalists - they'd never dreamed of such savage uncivilized beings in their pursuit of the buffalo and in their migrations.

With Capitalism there are winners and losers - but LIFE is NO GAME!

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Oldest Trick In The Book

Recently here in the states some big coal executives who'd been busted for keeping false safety records - so they could make more money - insulted ALL of Appalachia by saying that inbreeding was the cause of the poor safety records. That's the oldest trick in the book. It's the exact same thing every time. If big money wants something - they justify taking it by insulting the persons that they are stealing from. George W. Bush called the Afghans and the Iraqis "terrorist" so we could install a Rothschild central bank in Iraq, and build the Tapi Natural Gas Pipeline across Afghanistan.

The European invaders saw the Native Americans - called them "savages" and took their lands. The big coal companies called the Appalachian coal miners "inbred," and misused them for their labor. Same thing, over, and over, and over again.

The "savages" discovered in the new world were discovered by the Native Americans - and these were the pale face invaders that destroy and use up everything, and are never done with destroying or using things up. Cain killed his brother Able in this manner, for Able, the hunter gatherer had a lifestyle more pleasing to our creator.

I can't tell you how to live your lives, and you sure can't tell me how to live mine - but I tell you this my friends, I can sure point you in the direction of some cultures that were never a part of what is ailing our world now.

Native American Wisdom Seems Lost Upon European Savages.


© 2011 Wesman Todd Shaw


Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on February 21, 2013:

Patriot Quest - what you are calling "Capitalism," is more what I call "consumerism," the build it bigger than you need it, buy another one simply because its fashionable, and just throw it away because I'm too good to recycle or reuse things mentality.....consumerism is what is ...destroying the planet.

We've only got one planet, you know.

Wayne Joel Bushong from America on February 21, 2013:

It would be better if I just stayed out of this one, I am truly amazed that most of your comments center around native indians? Almost none of them picked up on your bashing of capitalism and how this country was built.

Read "the boy captives" After that true encounter no one can dispute the horrific atrocities Indians commited in this country. Also they were nomadic from deep Mexico clear to Canada.............they can't own it all? They killed and robbed therefore had to be corralled, not to mention they were a filthy unbathed people with horrid lice. They could be compared to the uncivilized of the deep Amazon today. They now own casinos all over the country and still live under the poverty line.

I am more interested in your capitalism speech? Capitalism built the greatest country on earth? Why would you EVER try to demonize that?

A guy on January 05, 2013:

I don't get the Cain and Abel part

" Abel became a shepherd of a flock, but Cain cultivated the land."

Abel sac'ed a sheep and Cain sac'd his produce.

Shepherd ≠ hunter/gatherer

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 31, 2012:

Thanks very very much, Sir NateB11!!!!!!!!!!

The exact same still happening right now in Brazil, as the Belo Monte Dam.....which will create more pollution than "green energy" is going to be built, while over 40,000 Natives are forced off lands they have lived on for more years than anyone even knows.

Nathan Bernardo from California, United States of America on July 31, 2012:

You are certainly correct that Europeans came over and decimated Native Americans and introduced poisonous products to them; and capitalism certainly uses everyone and everything up, and basically enslaves. Also, good insight into that trick of dehumanizing populations so as to go to war with them and exploit, dominate and destroy them. Good piece, like this down to earth examination of things.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 12, 2012:

Hey Randy, and I'm the *cough* *cough* *cough* "racist" for publishing this!!!!!!!!!!

Hey "rickylicea," bro, when you pay me well - I'll publish the exact shit you approve of - but until then, you can either shut the fuck up, of fuck off!

Randy Godwin from Southern Georgia on July 11, 2012:

When De Soto first landed near what today is called Tampa Bay, he brought several huge mastiffs with him. he used these vicious dogs to terrorize the natives. In one incident when the chief --called a Cacique- refused to appear, De Soto fed his elderly mother to these dogs letting them literally eat her alive.

They had come mainly to replenish the slave supply because they had wiped out the population of the Caribbean islands using them to work the sugarcane fields and for other laborious jobs in Cuba and Jamaica. Yeah real nice civilized guys they were. But at least they brought god with them. Catholic priests recorded these events to show how savage the natives were. Yeah right!


rickylicea on July 11, 2012:

I wasn't talking about you.

ps, you can't edit on here.

Mr. Happy from Toronto, Canada on July 11, 2012:

Haha, I am a self hating white? I have been called many things in my life but this is a first. You can keep going on with your assumptions, if You wish Amigo!

I am Dacian and proud. Cheers! : )

rickylicea on July 11, 2012:

Sorry the second half was for your highness.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 11, 2012:

So what sort of racist nonsense prompted you to assume so wrongly that our Mr. Happy was English?

Dude, you are stupid.

So, again, is there a culture that can be criticized in your slim mind without someone being called a "racist," or are you just the dumbest of your breed?

rickylicea on July 11, 2012:

@MR. Happy. Yes they also brought railroads, anti-biotics, draft animals, plants, built infrastructure, like the panama and suez canal, etc.

Is a self hating white, really a white??

Once you're back in England or whenever, then you can condemn European colonizers in America.

Thanks Mr. Shaw, yes ad hominem usually takes 5 seconds.

Take care.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 11, 2012:


Smooth ain't my style!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Mr. Happy from Toronto, Canada on July 11, 2012:

This article focuses on people of the First Nations and the European colonizers, Mr. Ricky. Sure, the Mongols ravaged other people's lands and so did the Romans and the British and the ... but again, the article is not about them. : )

And as a European, born and raised in Europe - I do not think Mr. Wesman was racist in this piece of writing. Yes, his tone was not exactly smooth but neither is the topic of the genocide brought onto the people of the First Nations by the Europeans.

Europeans messed-up more countries in this world than any other group of people. Europeans carved-up Africa, inventing borders and nations. They did the same in the Middle East ... in the Americas ... lol what's left? Antartica maybe. haha .... I think Mr. Wesman has a point - we've been a little nasty in our past but hey, we have a chance to learn and perhaps help in repairing what we messed-up on.

Try to see this topic from a different perspective too.


Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 11, 2012:


I'd never delete such a stupid comment as yours. Are you implying that I hate "white people" for calling their technology specific and war monger culture inferior in that way?

I am a "white person, " perhaps you've noticed?

So which culture, exactly, is it that you suppose one can speak out against for its flaws without being as you would say in your infantile way *cough* "racist?"

You can try that shit somewhere else, and you can try it here as much as you please. I'll be proud to spend the five seconds it takes to satisfactorily demolish such stupidity.

Good day to you.

rickylicea on July 11, 2012:

This hub is racist against native americans, you infantilize and romanticize them. How about all the wars that they fought with each other. They weren't some egalitarian commies. Have you heard about the Aztec and Inca EMPIRES.

Its also racist against Europeans, your wrong in saying "for the blood thirst of the pale skinned races had spilled red all over Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and the Middle East for thousands of years"

If that were true it would only be true since 1492.

Have you head of the devastation the Mongols and other asiatic tribes like the Huns caused in Europe. How about the Arab invasions of Europe.

Hope you don't censor my comment.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on February 23, 2012:

Hey Mr. Happy!!! Thanks for that. I'm really slow to do the things I say I'll do, but it's because I make so many plans, and especially when planning to learn things.

Anything that constitutes "ancient wisdom" is going to be something I want to know about.

I'm in a really fine position to get a handle on such things. ....but the curse of most of modern society members is that we also have to make some money here and there, and I've nothing but an old XP computer and a mind to do it all with.

In any case, you can well bet safely that I'll stay my course.

Mr. Happy from Toronto, Canada on January 16, 2012:

You might be interested in my last post then, Mr. Wesman (on medicine herbs).

Ancient wisdom is what this Wolf is sniffing-around after and I might need to head down-south eventually. I`ll keep You posted. The Apache and Navajo are somewhere around You.

All the best. May Wakan Tanka walk with You.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on January 16, 2012:

Thank you very much, Mr. Happy!!!!

I'm very interested in the spiritual beliefs that the various tribes of Natives had. I think they surely had lots of wisdom that has been lost upon the European Savages.

I think the way that the Natives regarded the planet and their environment....were especially important things that have been completely disregarded by the savage tribal entities known as "the American corporation"...or the "multi national corporation."

Mr. Happy from Toronto, Canada on January 12, 2012:

I think you should go to a Native Reserve Mr. Wesman. Take some sage with you or cedar (even better in my opinion as cedar symbolizes kindness) and you will be just fine. Give it to someone and ask if you can look around or spent some time (bring some camping equipment in that case).

The best time to go actually is during a Pow-wow. Every Reserve usually has a Pow-wow, once a year. The date is fixed, the same each year for each Reserve. All this can be easily found on the net too nowadays. FNs have gone digital roffl.

Great write. Many thanks for putting it together! Cheers.

LadonnaEstrada19 on December 23, 2011:

That is well known that money can make people autonomous. But what to do when someone doesn't have money? The only one way is to receive the mortgage loans or just bank loan.

Ed Michaels from Texas, USA on November 28, 2011:

I did read Atlas Shrugged. I am quite sure vomiting was involved. I do not understand her resurrection in recent years as a figure of importance, let alone a "thinker" worth listening to. Perhaps a take down of Ayn Rand would be in order? This would, I think, address the jarring nature of the inclusion of Rosenbaum in such a brief mention of her and realize the aim of having those who read you think about her, her placement in society, and the influences of her past and her position on her "thought".

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 28, 2011:

I typically doubt that many of Ayn's followers know anything about her.

I feel like if they knew who she was, and where she was from; and what happened there - they might have a clearer understanding of her motivations.

Seriously - I see some truly pathetic ideas thrown around about how "Ayn told us everything!!!!!!!!!!"

or "If only everyone would read Atlas Shrugged!!!!!!!"

Makes me nearly vomit.

Ed Michaels from Texas, USA on November 28, 2011:

This was a well-formed presentation, researched and accessible. For that I thank you. However, I do have a small problem with "Ayn Rosenbaum Rand". She is widely known as Ayn Rand, the name under which she published her claptrap, and stressing a Jewish-looking name (whether it is or not, I do not know) places undue importance on her religious (or do you mean to stress her 'racial?') background, an element of her background of less import to her thought than her position within and ignorant adoration of a capitalist social-economic-political structure. If your intent is not to stress this element of her background, I think it would serve you best to remove it.

I am home-schooling my son partially in order to escape the influence of outdated historical concepts and categories that create idols of flawed historical persons and fail to recognize the value of cultures and persons rejected by the national narrative. Thank you for your writing.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 11, 2011:

Hey THANK YOU Writer!!!

There wasn't anything intellectual IN Atlas Shrugged!!! That's why you got bored with it!!!!!!!!!!!

Ayn believed that technology was some sort of moral virtue - which is the highest level of absurdity that I can think of!!!

writeronline on November 10, 2011:

Thanks for referring me to this, Wesman. It's much more focussed on the American Indian than the one I wrote, and referred you to,(which starts at this time in history, with Manifest Destiny, but is really about how language is manipulated by the powerful to provide justification for evil acts; always has been, and is still. Hence the title, How Words Kill).

This Hub of yours, imo, is very well-constructed, very informative, and, as is the case with much of my stuff, all the better for the wealth of insightful comments that both expand and test the views of the author.

I did not know that Ayn Rand had promulgated such racially based beliefs. I read 'Atlas Shrugged' once, but being not altogether deeply intellectual, I got bored and tbh, skimmed the last half..maybe she'd have held my attention longer if I'd picked up the work to which you refer!


Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on October 20, 2011:

Thank you very much Sir!!!

I certainly learned next to nothing about Native Americans in public schools. I'm afraid that if anyone wants to know anything about them - they have to find out all on their own.

Ankush Kohli from India on October 20, 2011:

Amazing story on Native Indians. We hardly get anything to read about them. Probably communism, fascism and capitalism takes out majority on our social study books. Neither we found them on history books, may be ours itself take full life to know about. Anyways looking forward to some of your other stories as well.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on September 04, 2011:

Hey, thank you for your comment!!!!

sam the kiwi on September 04, 2011:

columbus was a murderer ,he deserves not the day day he has , italians should have a different name to celibrate like itilan festival or new migrants day ,but stop celibrating that 500 year old nazi and apoligise to the natve people includeing them in a multi cultural day celibrating indigernese peoples .

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on August 03, 2011:

Thank You,KingofFishback!! I think you're referring to Black Elk, maybe?

Yes, America has some bloody Karma headed it's way for it's current wars, what it's done to itself, Every nation South of here - and a few other things as well.

KingofFishback on August 03, 2011:

A leader, I think it was a holy man of the Lakota tribe, said things will not change until the white man understands that he cannot eat his money. Money is the root of our undoing.

I really like the comments of Potts Antiques.

I have often commented on the tragic events you express. We have been bombarded constantly about the extermination of the Jews. Too bad the tribes do not control the media. However, our day of reckoning may lie ahead as foretold by the prophets in regard to the third shaking of the earth.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on August 03, 2011:

It was sad, really - I'd never even heard of Howard Zinn until he'd died! I'd love to read that book. From what I've seen on vid from that guy - he's right up my alley!

Thank you, AgesMGMT!

AgesMGMT from New York on August 03, 2011:

I have a t-shirt that has the image that you used as your image on it.. "Fighting Terrorism since 1492"

Read Howard Zinn a peoples guide to the United States. If you haven't already you will find a lot of interesting things that relate to this.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on August 01, 2011:

COOL!!!! Will Do!!!! Thanks for that other -(message) - I'd knocked out. . .probably five or six of them, totally un necessary words. I wonder how often I do that. I'll at least be looking for it now. :=D>

Randy Godwin from Southern Georgia on August 01, 2011:

Yes indeed, I love to visit Georgia's Mississippian mound builders ancient earthworks and recently wrote 2 hubs about one of these beautiful spots.

Check out the oldest earth lodge in the US, featured in my 2 latest hubs, for a wonderful look at the original earth lodge floor made of baked clay with the original seating for 50 council members. I was fascinated when I entered it to take photos. Over 1000 years old.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on August 01, 2011:

Thank You very much, Sir! I know that Comanche were the dominant tribe around here. I really ought to study up on them particularly - I used to know a lot more about Native Tribes in Texas than I now do. I read a lot about them in a prolonged trip to the slammer a few years back.

I bet Georgia has lots of great Native lore as well - the whole nation does, really.

Randy Godwin from Southern Georgia on August 01, 2011:

Despite what others may think, the very first Spanish expedition to North America brought disease to many indigenous tribes in the southern US. This was proven by later expeditions finding many deserted villages which formerly had large populations.

Enjoyed your take on these events.


Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on August 01, 2011:

THANK YOU!!! If you "blow it up" or "zoom in" with control+ you can get a good visual of it.

There so much neglect in learning this stuff here in the states. You have to learn it all on your own if you want to know anything - and that's pathetic, in my opinion.

Eaglekiwi from New Zealand on August 01, 2011:

Awesome ,well done!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on August 01, 2011:

Hey Eaglekiwi!!! I like this one so much I think that I'll see if I can add it to this hub.

Eaglekiwi from New Zealand on August 01, 2011:

Psst Wesman Todd Shaw.

I guess you missed my earlier comment ,was going to ask a question in a reply ,but doing it now ,lol -hope ya dont mind

I am trying to find a link to a map or list of all Native American Tribal areas in the U.S?

Any ideas would be helpful

Thanks again -E~Kiwi

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 29, 2011:

Hey Obscure_Treasures, I couldn't agree any more about the Led Zep tune, it's one of the finest single instances of them recorded live that I know of, and even the original, found on Led Zeppelin III is tremendous!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 28, 2011:

Hello AllSuretyBonds, are you saying that my writing is incoherent? You're the only one who seems to think so.

I will, however, be glad to read over any suggestions that you might have for how I can go about improving it. Thank you!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 28, 2011:

Hey Camera-Printers - I thank you very much for your suggestion and your comment! I wish I was in some university somewhere, and only had the time to do this article marketing thing for fun.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 28, 2011:

HA! Perfect! So stupid to say "Columbus discovered America in 1492!" That's the most ethnocentric statement or idea EVER!

Yes - the Brits handed Caesar's Legions their ass their first attempt to land, and then much later . . .Hadrian had had enough, and built you all that wall!

Thank you very much, seeker7!!!!

Helen Murphy Howell from Fife, Scotland on July 28, 2011:

Hi Wes- an awesome hub the best one to date from an excellent collection.

Looking back at our history there is always going to be the the cold, greedy, b-----ds who carry out 'ethnic cleansing' and label the deed as 'improvement' and 'necessity'. And the churches weren't any better!

One of the comments stated about the Romans thoughts on Scotland. This was true, the Picts or Caledoni as they called them were to Roman ideals 'savages' - again here is the 'excuse' they use to slaughter. At least in Scotland the Romans didn't get all their own way. Although the Picts never were defeated I think it was more the mountains and glens of the Scottish landscape that defeated them - and probably the weather too. Don't think the Romans had come across so much f---g rain in all their lives and only being clothed in short leather skirts I think the Romans must have departed for warmer climates!

I really enjoyed this hub and your arguments are spot on. One of the things that does bug me though - the argument is still raging about who discovered America? Surely that's simple - it was the indian tribes who discovered it? But since they're not classed as 'white explorers' maybe that doesn't count??? A classic case of - only when a white person sets foot on a piece of land is it classed as discovered!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 27, 2011:

Thank you very much, Stephen Kalu !!!

I try to make it either controversial or interesting - but the truth of the matter is that the money on the web seems to be located in product oriented articles. I think we have to diversify our writing though, in order to gain an audience both far and wide.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 27, 2011:

Hey Mr. feenix, definitely - there's always blame to be shared everywhere. I think that Comanche and Apache cultures were especially brutal - but I need to do a lot more fact checking before I go into Native American things again.

I think that what happened in the colonization of the America's was bound to happen. What I hate about it is that so many languages and cultures were obliterated, and that so many ideas were lost along with it all on the premise that "ours" were all better.

Obscure_Treasures from USA on July 27, 2011:

This song of Led zepplin is astonishing..Great lens..Nice article

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 25, 2011:

Hi htodd!!! Thank you!!! I try to be interesting - and sometimes it works, usually it makes folks mad!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 25, 2011:

Hey freecampingaussie - Thank you very VERY much! I need to do a whole lot learning about this subject - there's so much in Native American cultures that we could benefit from if we only knew about it.

AllSuretyBonds on July 25, 2011:

This is all over the place.

Camera-Printers on July 25, 2011:

I thoroughly recommend the book 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' which discusses the 'extermination' of the Indigenous American Indian. A truly heartbreaking book.

Eaglekiwi from New Zealand on July 25, 2011:

Enjoyed reading your powerful and educational hub.

It has not been to long that the real history of the First Americans has been available.

As an Indigenous native to New Zealand ,thankyou for continuing to enlighten the people all over the world.

Kia Kaha (Stay Strong)

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 25, 2011:

Hey Christopheranton! Yes, when the power is lost from the grid for months at a time, we'll all be wishing we'd learned a whole lot more about the "old ways" of survival, no doubt!

invitationwrite on July 24, 2011:

love the pictures,its very nice!!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 24, 2011:

Thank you,Sueswan - isn't that odd how "American" came to mean someone from the US??? I mean, there's all of South America, Canada, and Mexico, etc - and every last one of us are Americans.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 24, 2011:

Hey Feenix "Native Americans of Europe" is pretty fair, and what is often forgot is that the Irish helped preserve a lot of knowledge during the middle ages.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 24, 2011:

Hey cathylynn99 - thank you very, very much!!!


Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 24, 2011:

Hey Dusty - man, I think it's awesome to be an EMT! I think I'd like to get into that myself!

stephen kalu from Nigeria on July 24, 2011:

wow,very interesting hub you have written and i know that there are more from where that came from.

feenix on July 23, 2011:

Jason, Wesman,

Just to add something here: It must also be noted that long before large numbers of Europeans arrived in what is now America, many Indian nations were doing such things as slaughtering and conquering other Indian nations.

And the same was true in Sub-Saharan black Africa. Long before whites ever arrived there, blacks were committing mass murders against other blacks. In fact, the Zulu nearly wiped out the "little people" called Bushmen or Hottentots -- just because they wanted the land that those people occupied for their cattle.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 22, 2011:

Hey Mrs Ward - thank you for your very educated comment. I need to do a lot more reading and learning about First Nation peoples and their cultures and beliefs. I'm thinking of consulting you before I bother much with this sort of thing again.

Jason R. Manning from Sacramento, California on July 22, 2011:

Once again, leave it to me to stir the pot on both sides. First, great hub Wes, I really like how you are refining your process and adding lots of evidence for others to investigate. This is a lengthy write you posted.

So, I do not disagree with how you reference the terminology of savages, nor do I disagree that Smallpox, Syphilis, Typhoid and other sanitation oriented diseases wiped out more Indians then bloody engagements.

However, not all Europeans were bent on killing off the Indians. There were complex problems on both sides, not to mention both sides had peaceful wishes and bloody wishes. The Comanche’s compounded the problems. Characters like Buffalo Hump who loved raiding, raping, taking slaves of Mexican, Spanish and White European women. Please research the story of White Squaw, Cynthia Ann Parker. Texas was a rough place for anyone who wasn’t Comanche. Once the Spanish introduced horses to this tribe, they came into their own element. They made war on everyone, everyone! The Spanish lured American settlers into the Southwest Texas valleys in order to build a buffer zone of Comanche attacks.

Please just do not say the Indians were a total peaceful bunch. There were thousands of tribes, groups within groups. Killing is killing, Europeans couldn’t understand dirt worshippers, ironically, the Scottish (Druids) during Roman times were accused of the same “savage” actions.

Peace brother, good writing.

htodd from United States on July 17, 2011:

Thanks for the great post..nice

freecampingaussie from Southern Spain on July 14, 2011:

That was an INTERESTING hub !Was always fascinated by the indians as watched loads of westerns when younger. Came over to visit from the question about the Interesting button lol ! yes I clicked on it & voted you up !

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 14, 2011:

Hey A.M. - that public school history . . . .could possibly make me vomit if I thought about it too much

"Home of the FREE?????????????" "Land of the BRAVE?????????" Who the hell are they talking about?

Christopher Antony Meade from Gillingham Kent. United Kingdom on July 14, 2011:

I think personally that it is wrong to call the less technological peoples savages. If push came to shove, I would feel a lot more confident if I were lost in the woods with a Native American, than a space scientist, or a banker.

Thanks for a really top rate hub Wesman.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 14, 2011:

d-richie93 - Thank you very much! Will do!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 14, 2011:

FloraBreenRobison - I LOVE genealogy! I and my family need to do a lot more research into ours. I know that I'm directly related to folks like Daniel Boone and Ben Milam, but that's about all I know - at least so far as well known names are concerned.

Of course the facts are that a well known name is . . . .deceptive, and means nothing so far as what good one has done in this world of celebrity, materialism, and lies.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 14, 2011:

Thank you VERY MUCH, Lorenzo - compliments from my favorite people truly make my world brighter.

Sueswan on July 14, 2011:

Excellent Hub!

I like your distinction between Native Americans and a American native.

Once when I was in Mexico, I was asked if I was American. I said, "I am Canadian."

When I hear the word American, I think of the United States of America and not the content of North America.

I will never understand how one race thinks that they are superior to another.

Why all the killing? None of us gets out alive.

feenix on July 13, 2011:

Hi, Wesman,

While you're at it, you should do a hub about the Irish because they are the "Native Americans" of Europe.

The Emerald Isle has been conquered by damn near everybody in the world. :-)

cathylynn99 from northeastern US on July 13, 2011:

love the pictures and captions.

50 Caliber from Arizona on July 13, 2011:

I gotta agree with "justom" the longer I live the more I don't know and the more I value the "peace" I get out of sailing around troubled waters. I often get accused of being violent minded because I choose to carry a gun. More important is that I choose to carry trauma medical gear and the knowledge to save a life and believe the odds of that are 10 times the odds of ever having to use the gun to protect my self or others from the DNA justom [I think] is referring to that ends up with what I used to see every evening on the news after work in California. In 1978 a fellow Marine was still active duty, worked at a 7-11 store in the evenings and was a huge man who got challenged by a guy with a knife, the video shows him jump the counter and grab this guy and with a punch knocks him out, with his back to the door a guy comes in and shoots him in the back with a double barrel, dead, for 34 and change in the till, case never solved no money was lost, I totally understand what a Vet of war was thinking about the little guy, but he forgot his 6 and 3 kids and his wife had to grow up alone, I can't comprehend it still and never will. Minimum wage and 34 bucks of someone elses money on his end and the willingness of killing someone that had to know going in the only money would be less than 50 dollars and the change jar for "Jerry's Kids". I already told you about the other friend being shot to death in the parking lot of a gun store, case unsolved. It just demonstrates what is in the hearts of men and it hasn't changed much over years of banter and I never want to be a subject of the banter, I entertain the thought of dieing in my sleep.

Still a well done hub, dust

PottsAntiques on July 13, 2011:

I'm having difficulty with this on a couple of levels. Certainly I like your indignation apparent throughout the piece. :)

In my graduate work I referred to "Native Americans" as Amerindian, or by their tribe (which is what they/we prefer). Most "Native Americans" don't like the term, which is why I don't use it. Also, as you pointed out, it can be confusing. Grouping all European "invaders" together is problematic because while the Spanish certainly were out for conquest and riches, people from other countries (such as the Scottish and Dutch) merely wanted trade (or to be left alone - see "William Penn" for a man who dealt fairly with tribes)*. The Scottish settled predominantly in the South, and rather than existentially dehumanizing the indigenous "other," they viewed them the way any trader would: As people from whom they could profit, not as savages. From the 18th century, Scottish traders married into the tribes, demonstrating at least some form of respect. They weren't out to kill the tribes or steal land... they lived among them on the early frontiers of Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama (see Panton Leslie & Co). There are many accounts of white people running off to "live with the Indians," and more than one "Indian captive" during the 1600s and early 1700s chose to remain with their captors rather than return to white settlements - certainly these white people liked Amerindians a lot! (See Mary Jemison)

Have you read the Lewis and Clark expedition (not one of the edited versions)? Taking place before the full-scale genocide that would happen after the Civil War, it demonstrates white people viewing Amerindians by tribe, rather than one race with no differences in language/culture. No where does either Lewis or Clark say that they tribes they encounter should be exterminated. Certainly they behaved in a paternal manner to those they met, and but "condescending" isn't the same as overtly hostile. They also readily credited several different Amerindian individuals and tribes with their success.

I won't disagree that there was a full scale genocide of not only the people of the tribes, but also their language and culture. Wiping out of nearly all the buffalo, forced-assimilation boarding schools that continued into the 1920s, and the removals of the mid-19th century all attest to that. All I'm saying is that large groups of non-Spanish Europeans** DIDN'T want the tribes to die, and prior to the mid-19th century, tribes were treated with more respect by most settlers in America. Perhaps not viewed as equals, but not viewed as the scum beneath feet either.

*Any one who brings up the "Walking Purchase" of 1737 should refer to this: Delaware Nation v. Pennsylvania, 2004 WL 2755545 (E.D. Pa. 2004).

**The Spanish could be particularly nasty because of God being on their side. There are no tribes native to Florida still in existence today due to the Spanish. The Seminoles are not an original Florida tribe.

As an addendum, when the first non-Vikings landed on U.S. shores, (Spanish, 1513) Amerindian bows were far superior to the guns in use at the time. Without rifling, the guns were inaccurate (bows were not), and took a while to reload (bows did not). Refer to Charles Mann's 1491 book for source.

50 Caliber from Arizona on July 13, 2011:

Aye Wesman, a great write on good old America will kill for money, just tempt it, dust

A M Werner on July 13, 2011:

Still one of my favorite subjects of study. When people talking about the founding of America, all talk is irrelevent to me if the genocide of Native Americans and the enslavement of minorities is not incorporated as into how the imperial Europeans prospered. You are so right. They were superior because they didn't think themselves superior. That is an awesome way of thinking - a true Christian way of thinking. To label people "savage" is to dehumanize. The banks and corporations of the world are consolidating their might and trying their best to bring about a one world order, a one world economy, a one world government. It all pretty much exists already, everybody just doesn't know it yet. Peace

d-richie93 on July 12, 2011:

This is a very nice hub .The information is nicely seperated and easy to read. and it is very interesting. please visit one of my hubs and leave a comment .

FloraBreenRobison on July 12, 2011:

Here is what I know of my ancenstry: I am Western European.

I have nine different countries in my family background at various amounts, some of which I know exactly, some of which I can only guess based on last names of my great grandparents.

However, if you look at areas of Europe where you combine all 4 nationalities-and yes I do mean all-within U.K. and combine Scandinavian countries, etc. it is easier to define my background.

I am 3/8 United Kingdom.

I am 1/4 Italian-the most of any individual country

I am 1/4 Scandinavian-Sweedish and Norwegian

I am 1/8 some combination of German and French from a great grandmother.

I have both American relatives and Canadian relatives, none of whom were born in North America before my grandparents generation except for the one great grandparent who was French and German.

I know further than my great grandparents history only for one 8th of my family as my Grandmother on my Mom's side had a sister who traced the family tree. I am a direct descendent of Captain Sir Henry Morgan, privateer-not pirate- from Wales. The distinction isn't a big one, but from what I understand, privateers paid taxes to the monarchy, despite doing many of the other activities a spirates. The last Morgan in my family was five generations ago.

I am also descended from the brother of Rudyard Kipling.

Lorenzo C on July 12, 2011:

hey, this is excellent writing. Infinite kudos...

~ L

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 12, 2011:

Very Interesting FloraBreenRobison! I like the "first nation" thing, but it seems as if that lumps all the Natives together AS IF they were a unified nation. I'm going to make a small leap here and assume that that's just not the case, as Canada is a HUGE place, and was surely the home to so many different tribes that not all of them are even known of any more.

Of course it's the same thing here - First Nation works for me, but it's misleading, as tribes were forever (mostly) migratory, and often at war with each other - they weren't unified, and of course there were sub tribes, related tribes, etc, etc, etc. Obviously, some Native American cultures were more advanced than some others, and some were more peaceful than others - it's a mixed bag of cultures just as it was with the Europeans.

One thing I simply have got to do is . . . .some more family research. My Mother's family has a lot of Native American blood in it. I am unaware of my Father's family having anything but European ancestry.

In any case - we should all be proud of who and what we are, but I think that so far as the Natives are concerned, the "baby has been thrown out with the bathwater" culturally speaking.

FloraBreenRobison on July 12, 2011:

It's an interesting term Native American with Native or native. Here in Canada, people refer to themselves as First Nations-i.e, Cree, sto:lo, etc. were here first. Meanwhile, our National anthem has the second line "Our home and native land." This is controversial and incorrect, unless you are a First Nations. But that is what the lyrics say. Ironically, the original English language lyrics and French language lyrics did not translate properly. Trudeau changed the lyrics when he was P.M. so that the two language versions had the same meaning. But that wording remains a problem. Meanwhile, there is a second problem with the lyrics "True Patriot love in all thy *sons* command." Women are in the military. So wording is an important issue in identity. Either way- I am not Native or native to Canada in that I wasn't born here and I'm not First Nations.

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