I know, it's a hard thing to imagine; a world without money. That's only because we've let money become something that it is not. Do we really need money, along with all of the problems it brings? I should think not. For too long we've let money control us, as if we were slaves, but lets take a look at what the world might look like if we did away with money, forever.
What is money? You might be thinking; well, money is something that I use to exchange for goods and services, which usually comes in the form of paper or coin. I definitely can't argue with that, but if we dig a little bit deeper we will come to find that only about 3% of our money actually comes in a material form like those above. Of course that would mean that the rest of our money supply is all digital. It's just a bunch of numbers that originally were generated out of thin air.
Sometimes I think we fail to understand how this money thing really works. Either that, or many people just don't care to understand. I for one, would rather understand. Lets look at this a little bit closer, shall we?
Why do we need money?
Alright then, money; what is it really? A necessity? Certainly not! At least not when we're talking about things that we need in order to live, such as food, clothing, and shelter. Those would be necessities, and money does not fit in there, although we have elevated it to that level. What about a luxury? I don't think so. Air conditioning would be a luxury, something that we don't really need in order to live, but it makes things a lot better. In my opinion, money hardly makes things any better and I'll explain why shortly, so we can't very well put it in the luxury group either. So then, where can we put it? To what can we compare it?
Well, you can try to fit it into those other two categories, but I'm gonna go ahead and stick it into the slavery group. Yes, slavery. Now, I know that when we think of slavery, we may generally think of some punishing hard labor, with little or no reward, but I ask you to consider where money really came from, and why you really need it at any given time.
At some point in your life you probably needed to go out and get a job, right? Why? Well, generally in our culture, we only accept money for things that we either want, or need. So, if you wanted something, or needed something that you didn't already have, you were forced to go out and submit to an employer. Our culture says that you need money to do things, so you've got to go out and get some of this money by working for someone else. I know, it's with consent, but we weren't really given an alternative to it were we? Does this sound like freedom, or slavery?
Now, if we look a little further ahead, it would seem that you might need a place of your own in order to start a family of your own. In our culture, in order to accomplish this you will need much more of that money we've been talking about. So, you probably need to go learn some stuff at a school (need money for that), and then you need to submit to another employer who will give you enough money to cover the costs that you have, or will incur. Does that sound like freedom, or slavery to you?
Hey, it's not a perfect system right, but it works? Uh, incorrect. The system was never set up to be perfect, nor for the benefit of you, or me. The system enables the rich to stay rich, and the poor to stay poor.
Why money doesn't make things better
Your money, the money that you have right now, is owed to somebody, by somebody. As long as we continue to use a monetary system, we will remain in debt indefinitely. Allow me to explain. You know about the Federal Reserve right? Well, they're the ones who pull our money out of thin air, and then charge us interest for it. If the government wants more money, a request is sent to the Fed, the Fed will accept reserve notes and digitally add a predetermined amount of money into the system. So, right off the bat we have money (created from nowhere), along with debt. Not only that, but we also have interest owed on top of our new debt, and as if that weren't bad enough, we are also forced to deal with inflation because "new money" is always being added into the system because we just can't get enough of it. This is why money equals debt, and debt also equals slavery. Even the Bible states; The borrower is servant to the lender.
Oh, you thought that you had true freedom? As did I, until I actually sat down and thought about this whole situation. However, that's a big problem because most people don't think about it, and the rich bankers would love to keep it that way. Lets just continue on as if there are no problems and everything will work itself out in the end, right? There's only one major problem with that; things aren't going to get any better this way. You can only pull something out of nothing for so long until disaster strikes.
We all hate crime right? Well, over 80% of it is related to money. What are some of the other side effects to the monetary system that we've all grown to love? Debt; that's an obvious one. Foreclosures; sure that's a big one. War; yeah, that's definitely in there. Poverty; yeah, gotta have that one. Greed; ooh, good one. Corruption; yeah, the monetary system will do that to ya. There's still others for sure, but that's quite enough depressing stuff for now. I want to get to the part about what the world could really look like if it weren't for money.
No money, no problems?
Ah, the encouraging part. The part about a world without money. I can picture it now...
There is no greed, there is no corruption! Why not? There's no money to covet, no special status as a result of having more money. We have the resources, and we have the technology in order to provide the things needed by everyone.
Ah, there is no stealing! Why not? You have access to the things you need, or may want, and anything stolen won't provide one with more money or anything else of "value" (I say value in the way that we see it now).
No one is poor, hungry, or homeless! Why not? Well, there is no rich, poor, or middle class. There is no money, and our status does not depend on how much we have. There is plenty for everyone. Again, we have the resources, and the technology in order to provide for everyone. Not one should be left out.
There are no foreclosures! Why not? Easy, the banks no longer rule the world, and they have no authority. You cannot lose a home when it was not paid for out of debt.
No jobs! Really? Well not so fast. Surely we wouldn't all be sitting around twiddling our thumbs. Certain jobs would easily become obsolete, like marketing and banking. While construction, medical, teaching, and other services would still be much needed. Why would we do that if there was no money? Because we can. Because we would be like minded, helping each other through ways that we are able. It's true, we might lose things like professional sports, or entertainment. Things like that could conceivably still be done, but they would really be just for fun.
No gambling! Yep, no reason for it without the money, and there being access to the resources that one needs.
No slavery! Ah, there's a thought. No longer are we hindered by debt/money, that we need to be forced into anything that we would rather not do. Sure we would still be working and doing things, but because we love to, want to, and are excited to see our children continue in this way.
Technology that lasts! Sure it seems like our technology is great, but the fact is, in a monetary system businesses can't be overly concerned about the customer. This is why things break, things don't work right, and things quickly become obsolete. In a world without money, our technology would also be free to be as good as it can be. It would no longer be restricted. Things would last, things would be made easier (no tech vs. man job problems), and we would become more advanced and more civilized in a shorter amount of time.
Is this a glimpse of a problem free world? Sadly no. We will have differences, we will have problems. This isn't a glimpse at a perfect world, just one of a world where there is real freedom. One humanity, one culture, one people, working together for the benefit of each other.
What would change require?
For far too long we have been fighting against ourselves. For far too long we have let the monetary system make us into modern day slaves. As long as we believe that things will never change, then they will not. Change comes by action alone. First there is a decision, then there must be action, and then there will be change.
In 1835, President Andrew Jackson shut down the Central Bank that preceded the Fed. Truly, he had a glimpse of what lie ahead for humanity. That was the last time that America was debt free, and now we can but glimpse of what it would be like to be free from this debt, free from this slavery, free from this burden that we call money and elevate to some lofty position. Is money important? Do we need money? Money is nothing! Money has become a burden! Down with money! Up with a civilized people that are free, technologically advanced, and willing and able to support each other as one people.
- Why We Need To Put An End To The Monetary System Immediately
I don't know about you, but I've always hated money. Statistics reveal that the majority of our problems are caused because of money alone. Thanks to money, we are forced to deal with greed, corruption,...
Vincent on November 15, 2015:
I've been thinking about our whole money system for awhile, especially since I started taking economics in school. It seems like the more I ponder, the more I'm led back to a money-less world as a solution. However, like the article said, like-mindedness is necessary: The only way this will work is if everyone learns the truth of life. If you were open-minded enough to consider dropping money forever, why not hear me out on this as well? Go to truthcontest.com and read 'The Present.' You'll understand what I mean when you read the first few pages.
John Wilson from Whereever I hang my hat is my hone. Currently in Ibarra, Ecuador on July 15, 2015:
Your concept is wrong.
The meaning of money: a medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively.
Money is NOT causing the problems of the world, those are more political and ego centered.
Money is used as a means of exchange for goods and services.
It's a lot easier to make change for a buck when your selling a tomato than it is to give change for a chicken being exchanged for the same tomato.
You'll soon get what you wish for, because governments hate "money". Governments would rather have your account of "money" be in digits of 0 1 0 1 0 1 than actually have currency in circulation.
Why would that be?
Because "money", "currency" gold or silver limits what a government can do.
Look at your bank note - be it a $1 bill or any other domination.
See where it says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"?
In the days of "legal" money of gold and silver, that's what you exchanged your goods and services for - gold and silver.
Then paper became easy to produce, and each bill that was issued was supposed to be backed by gold and silver. (Constitution law)
But, the government still had to enact that law "This no is legal tender for all debt - public and private". Because when it first came about, people wouldn't accept a bill - that wanted gold or silver.
Then Tricky Dick (Richard Nixon for those unaware of the bozo he was) decided, screw it, we can't manipulate our currency if it's pegged to gold and silver, and by a stroke of a pen, the paper dollars were no longer backed by gold and silver.
This led to inflation rates as high as 10% per month (120% per year!)
So, what would that mean in todays world?
. For simplicity, lets say gas in January was $4.00 per gallon. Nothing changes, demand remains the same, except the dollar decreases in value, like when I was in my 20's.
120% inflation would mean that the price of gas in December would be over $8.00 per gallon.
This is what the government can and does with the currency of any country - not just banana republics, but Amerika, too.
This is what the FED has been trying to do for the last 7 years, inflate prices.
Not increase value, but inflate. (When a country causes inflation, that's called debasing your currency)
So, the government would love to take "currency" out of circulation. It would be a whole lot easier to screw up prices without have to be stuck with "money in circulation".
You want a dictatorship?
Live in a country where everything is digital concerning "money".
You'd wake up one day to find prices sky rocketing because the government would think that's a great idea.
You think prices are high now, and income distribution is bad?
Get with a digital currency, and you'll see disparities that make todays world look great.
The worst thing that you can do, is let government have complete control over the currency with no limitations.
The result of that is what we have in world today.
Go digital, and it will be worse.
At least in todays world, the government is restricted a bit, because of the currency in circulation.
And that scares the hell out of the FED and the U.S. government. Because when we have another debacle like we had in 2007/2008, there will not be enough "currency" in circulation, and prices will tumble. Bad for government, but great for people who were wise and held onto "currency".
Always, always always keep the government in check when it comes to dealing with "money".
The root causes of most of our problems today can be traced back to when Tricky Dick took us off the gold standard.
Ashanti Evans on April 14, 2015:
This article is so intriguing to me. I'm actually writing a paper in class for this stance because i feel the world with no money would just damper a lot of the stress in life. As cliché as it may sound, but the better things in life are truly free. People here at college are so talented doing things such as knitting, drawing, or even something just like skateboarding, but no one will declare their major to be the next Picasso because they feel there's no money involved which is ridiculous. Money has overruled and I hope one day it really comes to an end.
TK on May 28, 2014:
The concepts of living without money is a simple one, but do to generations of living with it we automatically embarrassed the darker side of our humanity. We, all countries and races, always talk about protecting our cultures and way of life, but religion, science, and history has shown us that all creatures must change and adapt in order to survive and reach enlightenment. Our financial system is definitely one of the biggest unchanged goofs of our existence, empires rise and then fall from financial ruin throughout history, yet we still have not learned from past mistakes. Our own vanity and greed have led us to where we are still yet again; however, we are at a critical point once again in our existence to make a change. A new way of doing things for everyone must be adopted to better ourselves and clean up our planet, the model plans are out there to follow. Experts say it’s not too late, but the clock is ticking.
mi on October 29, 2013:
What makes you think goods will be dispersed equally with or without money? People will continue to take advantage of others
CommunismAlwaysFails on October 15, 2013:
This idea you are talking about has a name. It is called communism and it doesn't work. It would only work in a perfect world and this is by no means a perfect world. Yes technically the only communism we have seen involved money but it would fail without money as well. People would fight over animals, land, crops, food, and so on. Eventually some people would have more of these things than other people and use it as leverage to control other people. There are two facts that always makes this idealist idea fail, people are by nature greedy and lazy. If people have no need to work then they wont work and so everyone starves. It is a beautiful idea, it is just impossible.
Lou on October 05, 2013:
Woah I just saw this article today and really think its possible to work. The jobs issue is tricky about this. But, I think people will be more engaged in working in things they are passionate in and contribute that towards their community. Such as in technology innovations (energy, cars, computers, etc.), teaching, healthcare, providing basic necessities (toothbrushes and small everyday stuff like that), fashion and clothing, even in sports, books, movies, music. Anything! As long as people enjoy doing something, they will work to provide and even better their community. And people will look up to them for what they do and be grateful. There's nothing holding anybody back from doing things if there's no money involved. And if they're passionate about it, you know its going to be much better than somebody who is just doing it to get money.
Judy on September 23, 2013:
P.S. I guess I'm too dumb to understand the Zeitgeist video. If you're interested, here's an idea for bumper stickers, Tshirts & Mugs, to raise world consciousness. It could help make a dent:
GRITT VS. GRIDD
Judy on September 23, 2013:
This debate reminds me of the Wall in Israel & the proposed Wall between the USA & Mexico. People fight it, but then see (after the fact) how good it was.
The reason I disagree with a global credit system, is because anything centralized is open to abuse. Rather, I believe in freenergy for all, and fighting those who suppress it. I also believe in prioritizing PSI education (educating people to develop telepathic capability from childhood onward). I also believe in abolishment of the phony unhealthcare system, and replacing it with anatomical repair clinics which include quantum-physics diagnostics (such as L.I.F.E. system), detox via On-Site mud pools such as at En Fashcha, Salton Sea Mudpots, & St.Lucia. Detox should be followed by repair via nanotech, laser tech, stem cell tech etc.
free2bme on June 18, 2013:
what do you do if someone does decide to harm someone ?
DreamWorld on April 09, 2013:
I absolutly believe that one day , all the nations in the world will have enough and realise that the world that we live in is one big lie . Money is the most addictive drug ( yes i said drug ) on the planet . Peolple will harm, rob , kill and start wars for it . It can change peoples personality in a short period of time . But just like any drug , we soon realise how much damage it does and strart to find alternatives . This is a process that will probably take years . To me the Dream World is a world where money does not exist . It is a world where everybody helps eachother out . A world where we live together as one big familly .
Yong on March 10, 2013:
I love this idea. Maybe one can start this in a place, not so influenced by money yet, in need of better living quality and better education. They have nothing to loose right?
ilom on March 09, 2013:
Great hub, its nice to know there are people out there that get it. With the central issue being the unscrupulous individuals that setup, entrenched, and protect with great malice the central banking system my question is....how do we dethrone these individuals and start over? As seen with the invention of the guillotine, normal citizens (slaves) dont fight back and/or get violent until they are starving. Or is dethroning these wastes of space that built this system even necessary? Is there possibly a way to sidestep them and start over peacefully?
torrilynn on February 06, 2013:
very nice hub. i really liked reading it. very insightful and interesting. voted up.
Infinite712 on December 14, 2012:
Jester on October 16, 2012:
I like this article and is very similar to the views of the zeigeist movement - however my one query would be education. Would this be free in a non-monetary society? And would people want to be doctors etc if it didn't come with the price tag? I would hope so (for I am studying to be a midwife for the betterment of society) but isn't the reason they are paid so much because they study for so long? Would teachers then fall under this catergory, not because of the training but because of the benefit they make to society?
I like Gae's comment using a credit system, I think that could work if interest was abolished. Only thing I disagree with is celebrities getting paid more... christ they do nothing for humanity except entertain!
BenevolentSpirit on July 10, 2012:
I too happened to spontaneously ponder on this thought and come across your article after doing some research online. Indeed, some of the comments on here as well as the article was interesting and thought provoking but I'd like to shed some light on my thoughts too.
I'm not an economist, banker or politician but I understand enough about a "recession" to pinpoint the fact that it happens to be the cause of a decrease in expenditure of the public's well-earned money. And this means that everyone will be punished in the form of redundancies, higher inflation and more debt because everything is becoming more expensive, particularly the essentials such as electricity, gas, rent, clothes and food. Of course, we can see by now that it is becomes a spiral of increasing debt which can occur, and unfortunately does, in some people's lives in our world while the much richer gluttons continue to protest and avoid the equalisation attempts from the government.
Having read the brilliantly written article and most of the comments has further strengthened my views on this topic. But, this is just a theory after all as it's currently unfeasible at present. However, it is not impossible and the actions to try to bring this idea to fruition may take many years before this concept becomes oficially recognised and adopted. Until then, I can only continue to dream about this world and hope that this amazing idea may one day come to light.
Ariel on June 21, 2012:
This is a great article, thank you so much for your thoughts. If you haven't already, you should check out the Utopian novel by Marge Piercy called Woman on the Edge of Time. It's about a future world where money doesn't exist :)
Andy on June 11, 2012:
Been thinking along much the same lines. It seems to me that monetary wealth can come and go without any real change. There was a huge recession, the economy is still sluggish and a lot of people are unemployed.
Because nobody wants or needs anything? No, that's definitely not it.
Because the resources or the infrastructure or the technology are not there to meet the need? Nope. Not it either.
Is there not enough work for people to do? No, there's plenty of work people could be doing.
Are there not enough people with the skills and the desire to do the work? More than enough.
So, why was there a recession? Because of this artificial stuff called money. I don't know exactly how it could be done, but there must be a better way to do things, a way that won't cause so much trouble for no good reason.
paulb on April 20, 2012:
i have often thought of a world with no money and just how much unnecessary pointless activity it generates.big money institutions and politicians are always lecturing the populace on how they have to modernize and change in order to remain competitive but of course the world of big money and their mouthpieces never change.its the same old same old.with so many people displaced from unnecessary work think how many people could be redistributed into tasks that needed doing.yeah,bring it on.
Megan Hull on March 15, 2012:
Excellent piece of writing. Love it. Sums up my feelings entirely. As soon as you mentioned slavery, I knew you saw the big picture. Awake and aware. Keep it up! :)
David (author) from San Antonio, Texas on February 10, 2012:
Excellent ideas guys! Thanks for the story Brian. I love hearing about communities that don't believe in money or land ownership. Status based on contribution is a very fascinating concept, which we do see in many areas, but it isn't the main source of status for many people.
brian on February 10, 2012:
Imagine this situation as a platform for discussion on a world without money.
As a teen I took a canoe trip for 6 weeks, 400+ miles north of Montreal and was thrown into a micro-community where money was worthless. No one had money and there was no where to spend it. Status was based on contribution to the group. Knowledge, tenacity, and willingness to strengthen the community were desired traits. Those who took from the group without contributing were shunned and began to strive to be accepted by the group because it was in their best interests. Our guide, Charlot Gunner, spoke little English and we didn’t speak Cree. He was undoubtedly the leader since he had knowledge we needed. He knew where to go, what to drink, which rapids to go around, where to camp. But he desired to strengthen the community so that the work load was evenly spread. He could catch a rabbit with a piece of wire BUT showed us how so we could do it next time.
I could go on but it did work.
Gae on January 14, 2012:
If this will ever happen, unfortunately it would have to happen slowly, over centuries. The rich will never let go of their lease, at least not consciously. They would lose all the control and power over the masses, the exploitable workforce that creates more money for them. I get sick and tired of hearing about the economy and growth. Who's growth? The rich that's who. I have been on this planet for 46 years, have worked a 5 day week for 20 years and in that time, even though I am thrifty, I have never managed to save more than £1000 or so. That's because i am on a low income and have to continually pay the mortgage, interest and taxes (just like everyone else I admit). In the current system I will be an eternal slave until my deathbed.
In this imaginary world without money, I believe that we should have a credit system...a central and localised database.
Here is my idea....
Here's my idea for a future and possibly better society. Feel free to make comments or rip my ideas to shreds.The idea is that this is a future world society rather than just a future UK society as of course we are living in a Global society where trade is done across borders and countries.
All money and taxes would be abolished. A clean slate would need to be started. To appease the rich (without their approval this could never start after all) all their current savings (or assets) would be converted to some kind of Inheritance credit but its usage would have restrictions.
Everyone (and I mean everyone) would be entitled to free food, free electricity, free internet and free petrol (for work mileage only) but there would be a cap on usage. This cap would be three square meals a day that would cover all the basic nutrients for everyone. Every large supermarket would have a "Free food" label and an area where this is available to collect. All items would have a credit tag and there would be a limit (albeit a generous one) on how much can be taken by each family. An Electricity allowance would be a certain reasonable wattage amount that would increase to accommodate winter weather etc. These amounts would not be stingy or frugal but more than sufficient for everyone to live a comfortable lifestyle whether they work or not.
There would be three tiers of credits per month
Everyone would have a monthly credit of say 1000 units. To save time lets imagine that 1 credit = £1. These credits would be available to be spent for extra treats each month...fancy clothes, fancy food, or electrical goods etc etc. Of course, for those not working there is the limit of 1000 credits but it would give everyone a decent life if that's the lifestyle that they would prefer.
People who work would be entitled to say 2000 credits per month. This means that there is motivation for people to keep working and earn more credits if they so wish.
People who are in exceptional jobs (these would be pre-determined in this future society) (e.g. celebrities, doctors, firemen etc) would earn the highest amount of credits which would be set at say 3000 units per month or maybe slightly more (but not an obscene amount more compared to other people).
Everyone would be entitled to the basic free food and electricity but there would also be the opportunity to make more credits and buy fancier things. People who work and work hard would also be entitled to bonus credits payable each month.
There will be no taxes to pay and no money circulating only a credit card. Everyone would have a credit database kept within their own councils and a national database for the Government. There would still be both a Government and Councils, but there responsibility would be solely to regulate the credit system and to make sure no-one abuses it. The whole idea of this system is that everyone gets a square deal but also has the opportunity to make more credits in order to buy more things (if they are very materialistic and can't live without the best). So the more materialistic could still buy designer clothes and branded food etc but it would come out of their monthly credit. There would also be a petrol allowance for people who work but for leisure journeys, credits would have to be spent therefore minimizing people's usage of their cars. Banks for credits would exist but only for those that worked and credit would be on a monthly basis only. Mortgages would been a separate more complex area where a percentage of credits would be deducted each month. There would be a limit though on Bank profits. These would go back into the National Credit Treasury and ploughed back into the credit system. Although I'm tempted to abolish Banks altogether!
The whole idea of this future society would be that everyone lives to a comfortable standard, regardless if they are working or not and those that want to spend more credits can work and get more. There is a limit on the amount of monthly credits that anyone can earn so society remains reasonably frugal and people don't get too many more credits compared to those who are not working, meaning that the class divide is less and people would feel more economically closer. There would be less resentment and less hierarchy because of this. So no more crazy wages of £120,000 a week for footballers etc. if they love the game so much they can play it for 3000 credits a month (or slightly more) and get bonuses for playing well. Also, in this system, the global impact is smaller because we all live much simpler, more frugal lives.
OK, so my system might not be perfect and no doubt people will see flaws, or even compare it to communism, but i believe that this kind of frugal, more equal society would be a better one in the future and get rid of a lot of the woes that we are currently facing....woes that are based on the haves and have-nots and an ever widening gap between the rich and the poor.
Oh I also forgot, companies that make money would have credits given to their company and distributed accordingly to directors and staff therefore creating a market for goods production but without obscene profits. A percentage of the credits of course would be plowed back into the National Credit Treasury....not for taxes...but for credits. So the whole system is self supporting and everyone benefits in someway from the system.
So the basic 3 tier system
1)Free food and electricity and 1000 credits a month to all
2)2000 credits + bonus opportunities to people in regular work. Also free petrol for work usage. There may need to be some caps or extra credits on haulage companies.
3)3000 credits + bonus opportunities to people in exceptional jobs....Celebrities, sportspeople, doctors, firemen, etc etc
You may ask me what incentive artists like filmmakers and songwriters will have if there is a limit like this and my answer would be that if they are genuine artists, they they will want to create regardless of what they make. They are all rich anyway and their current money would be converted to an Inheritance credit (to be used with certain restrictions). Also, by this time we will have such a huge collection of movies and music at home that there will probably be fewer new movies and music being created anyway. Activites such as trading would be widely encouraged as it is environmentally friendly and encourages people to make use of their current resources in a positive way. How many DVDs sit on our shelves never to be viewed again when it would make great sense to trade them with other people's movies in their own DVD collection, which is also collecting dust on their shelves?
Summing things up? on October 28, 2011:
Whoops, I noticed there is neither A nor B in the simulation, there are only lenders and borrowers with interest rates and game theory situation to “lend the money in bank” making things with prices being revised with some degree of errors all the time (inflation). This will put incorrect values on the effort spent. And, not sure whether the errors are going to get cancel out all the time.
In an ideal world, I think the thing that’s going to revise a price is advancement like technology and limitation like the resources.
With interest rates using exponential function, the numbers are going big fast and so do the errors. I don’t think there are existing large numbers of people who “really need” to borrow amount equal to the amount in all people bank account. And if there are ones who want to borrow and lend, after default check, I think using linear one should be fine. but :( ?
Additional sum on October 19, 2011:
And guys, don’t get a misconception of interest rate = business growth. These are two different things, in fact, the first shouldn’t exist. An example:
There are 2 brothers; A and B.
A does not know what he like, he is still seeking for what he likes or (I don’t know) A just does not do anything that makes people acknowledge his effort.
B likes to catch fish.
One day B caught a fish and sold it to market to get $1. Second day, something happened, B got smarter or fishes got dumber or something just grew letting B caught 2 fishes then he sold to market to get $2.
Now, off course B’s business growth doubled (it grows 100%) BUT! Does this have any DIRECT impact on A’s pocket?
Printing money because of existing growth in effort is absolutely fine and necessary, but for nothing… that is corrupt.
This economy is just fine without interest rate
Summing things up? on October 18, 2011:
And now for my explanation about 3 things below (“today money is partly slavery”, “monetary system that’s a bit off” and “movement to pure money”):
As pointed by the protagonist, “the problem to widening inequality even in developed countries” and “why one think money is partly slavery” are partly because of interest rate; it is a smart tool benefiting some groups.
They say “Money now is better that money later, it’s an opportunity cost, blah2.” Yes it is! It is only when you get the opportunity to actually get the return. And who has? You can not tell until you did some business/effort and knew the result. But they already set it to be + ??? (They expect something from nothing that’s making the printing of money over nothing then making all the efforts made become less in value) or – ??? (this is even absurd, nobody wants to put their money in banks, we all will use safety box or create our own banking system).
Let me ask you guys this: If there is no interest rates, even if you have a big sum of money, do you think you can always get a + return over a year by loaning/doing business/other effort? Don’t you ever dare to say ‘yes for sure’ because there are too many factors you are going to depend on (knowledge, efforts, management, good allocation of resources, competitors, acknowledgement from customers, etc.). Or, if you are loaning to a sound existing business, does the money invested always lead to increased number of customers? No! Not always, especially in a year, bullshit! Nobody is sure what will happen in future, history is a good benchmark but it should not be the ultimate predictor especially in business (letting people to get any past + rate by just putting their money in banks – this is absurd! It is making money from nothing).
And also, when the money is still at their hand, will they actually use the opportunity? Not necessarily, because there is risk of losing them. And in this case, we could see that return (interest rate) should be able to go to minus if they relate it to opportunity cost of using the money, but “nope” said some groups. So what is the purpose of this predetermined rate?
This is the simulation of an “economy”:
Interest rate is 0.1% on average per period
Living Expense is $ 2,000 on average per period
A got $ 3,000,000 on average in bank account
B got $ 300,000 on average in bank account
Over a period
A = 3,000,000 + 3,000 – 2,000 = 2,000,1000 and increasing more and more without doing anything.
B = 300,000 + 300 – 2,000 = 298,300 and decreasing to 0 if B never find a source of income.
Now do you guys think this is ok? The printing of money over nothing (the 1000 and more over period) over many period of time would make all the efforts made become less in value (at least in front of A).
Now, who are some group? Some group mostly consists of some of A and some of B who think/want interest rates > 0% concept (by having the rate > 0 there is always sum making one gain living by nothing by fixing their living expense – who? It’s not a matter of who here, it’s a matter of possibility – Is it possible? Yes, it's just math). Some don’t understand that they are being tricked (get happy with + $ they got from bank interest, got job and got income > expense without knowing the grand plan) and some are smart powerful greedy lazy people. Who are in biggest group in fault? There is a hint; ones who are behind the interest rate who should at least belong to part of A, otherwise they are really hitting themselves… that is stupid then
The interest rate will push people to be an A. This thing is not all bad given an appropriate level of living expense and income, but the thing is, do all people have same chances to be an A? Nope, given one born from group A and one born from group B in this “+ interest rate” economy will on average (if one childhood isn’t messed up) give better chance of (good) living of the first. We are given equal chance to be born from A or B groups, but yet this interest rate economy doesn’t favor B’s efforts of living.
Think about what happen if there is no interest rate. Nothing changes dramatically, no changes in prices if there is no demand and supply price war. And there would be equal chance on living enjoyably that’s based on effort. Thing is.. are you an A or B? Just check these 3 factors: your real living expense, your interest rates and the sum that’s accessible to you. If you are an A, are you willing to be somewhat poorer for the sake of majority of B? Could you make sure that your next generation would not to fall in B in this “interest rate“ economy? Maybe you could, through this usury, but will B allow you to do this for long?
This is what I want to say:
We are given equal chance to be born from any groups; all efforts of living should stand the same across all.
Money should be a trading agreed value of acknowledged effort at a time. Given the agreed value; the value of agreed effort should not grow or diminish over time because of nothing. Nothing should create money but acknowledged effort.
Zero interest rate is the correct rate as:
o We do not know for sure what the future return of the business is (History is not the same as future)
o No acknowledged effort, no value, no money
o Effort done is unchanged, it could not grow or diminish by the past effort/nothingness
Anyway, thanks for reading my comment.
Summing things up? on October 18, 2011:
Before giving my own comment, please allow my personal view to last few comments, as things are a bit “independent” here:
i think -> I agree with the derivation of money. In fact, I think it is the definition of pure money i.e. pure money = trading medium of “effort”. And yes, doing more things is the way we could maintain our lives and be richer than other. But we should be careful of the “effort” we do, as it is acknowledged effort.
jpcmc -> Sorry, I’m a bit confused with the last word, the “thereof” does it mean lack of evil or lack of money?
If it means the first :-D, this is very deep statement although it’s a bit off from the topic. But yes, I agree to this. Not knowing evil or try to remove it from your mind is inhuman. Excuse me saying this, “We as a human all have evil thoughts no matter how you try not to believe them, otherwise where the hell the evil thoughts come from? It is recursive thing. In some events, you might runaway from it and try to be ‘inhuman’ or face it and choose whether you want to control it or not“
If it is the latter, I do not think lack of money is the cause of evil as one could just self suffices without it, e.g. undisturbed farmers, fishermen, hunters, etc.
It is the expectation of having something from nothing that is the root of bad things. e.g. someone thinks “oh hoho, the stock of company ABC is gona go up!! I buy now all of them n sell later” and I say “yeh man, it’s like there is one wanting to give you a gain by losing. But no worries, somehow you got a friend of yours who share the same thinking in many part of this world, he thinks it is going down :)” Then there you go investment traders, they got ways in their working hours fulfilling the needs of gamblers through the fees, jobs for the necessary evils indeed. Come here Nicholas Cage, do them!
BizGenGirl -> yes, money today is partly slavery and taxes are partly theft because of the first. It is not a full slavery because there is still a choice of effort inside. Tax is good if it's aimed correctly, you know why not spread our luck a bit to the unlucky one as we are equal in front of luck, i.e. you do not choose to be born able, disabled, silver race, green race, gold race, etc. Yes i am also talking a bit about race here, but face it, we are GIVEN BY LUCK to be born in one condition, we are not even choosing.
the protagonist -> I agree with all his/her statement but not for the last punching noun “global no-money”.. erhm I don’t think this will happen.. People want their efforts to be valued and they need each others’ efforts. Money acts as medium of trade so the existence is just forever as long as the existence of people who need each other. What I think would happen is a movement from “money as it is today” to be pure money. I’ll try to explain this later.
Mackdaddy – monetary system partly works, we can’t deny it, otherwise try to just throw your money on the street and I’m 100% sure there will be people collecting it. The monetary system just goes to a direction that’s a bit off partly because of interest rates. I’ll try to explain this later.
Yes, I had seen the video and I think part of the view is a bit extreme. Some people do like doing stuff repetitively in term of work because they really like it. Some people don’t and this is normal because we all have different personalities and our liking to a job could change over time. And if one feels that it is time to change, one will just do it, so this is not slavery as there is choice inside, you can even choose not to work, but could you sustain your own living needs? If you could, that’s fine. Else, you need to trade your effort with basic needs first. How you trade nowadays? Money
World without medium of trade will not work. And the closest place you think about is nature and you need a lot of knowledge to convert them to your need.
i think on May 18, 2011:
money is just something neutral, good thing and bad thing can come from it depending on how we think about it
i just think that monetary system is derived from trade of goods and services in old ages. And this trade is derived from something that's simple i.e. our ability to do/produce much more in other area than others
so the key thing is "do" more, that's where this money system come from. And by doing more we could maintain our survival for certain extent of future
personally i think this system is naturally beautiful
JP Carlos from Quezon CIty, Phlippines on May 14, 2011:
Interesting hub. I always think that it's not money that's the root cause of evil, it's the lack thereof.
PermissionGiver from Lake Stevens on May 03, 2011:
I totally agree. Money is Slavery, Taxes are Theft.
Great hub! I can tell you thought it through very well!
the protagonist on March 26, 2011:
To move directly to a world without money would not work. First humanity needs to have a transition phase. The problem of the global economy is that the rate of wealth (wealth as in food, clothing, health care, etc...) creation is much less than the rate of money creation. This leads to a situation where more money is supposed to cover lesser wealth resulting in inflation and the rich getting richer/poor getting poorer phenomenon. The real problem is when money can lead to more money directly without the creation of wealth. So we first need to eradicate the concept of interest on debt (zero or negative) and put more taxes on saving (not earning). Imagine what are the repercussions of this, no interest means that the rich do not have leverage over the poor that much. In this type of society, people would gradually get used to the idea of spending more money without worrying about debt (to reduce saving tax). Of course governments would have to redistribute the tax (on saving) to provide the basic needs for all citizens without exception. That is as close as to a money free world one can get. After a few generations of applying these ideas, humanity would be much more open to the idea of a global no-money society than in our current day and age.
Mackdaddy on March 25, 2011:
People only need to have there eyes open to reality to see that the monetary system doesn't work.
Everyone should checkout the movie Zeitgeist, here is some here:
A world without money would work and it wouldn't necessarily need to to be a barter system. Imagine a place where you go and just get what you "need" without the need to buy it. Maybe the luxuries could be a gift given to those who do the most to benefit humanity and even then, there should never be a divide as we have now where 5% of population have 95% of the wealth.
We could "all" live like millionaires in a new world order yet live more positive lives.
dreamer2 on February 22, 2011:
money isn't a problem
cmon, if it's then the world is heading to wrong direction this whole time?
the concept of money has been tested this whole time since its existence by the society and i think it works, just like how Charles Darwin's "evolution" concept being tested from time to time and somehow meet up with "dna theory"
the problem might be more to our ego (at one time we think a thing is a problem coz we're unhappy bout other things n we try to eliminate the unhappiness realistically but in fact, we/other thing could be the problem)
for e.g. i was a dreamer, now i'm dreamer2, my point of view bout money is totally different now coz things change
well, this might me your problem too at this point, n yah sorry if I'm wrong
I believe we're somewhat similar rite?
just like realizing that there are ppl who think the same thing while the dimension that they're living are different or is it that different?
oh, i kind of not telling anything while my writing is actually here yah? it's funny huh, sometime this how world works, circling around while it's moving forward, but it's actually circling around again or is it moving forward?
dreamer on January 26, 2011:
visa condition to enter the country:
choosing to believe that one can live without money
dreamer on January 26, 2011:
hy there, just got this thinking that money is a problem few days ago, it persisted in my mind, and i finally end up here from google :D
let me write up my thinking
guess we got to learn to be self sufficient first to start?
learning to farm, generating electricity, learn more about water, make a good house in a good location
finding out the special numbers of plants and animals i got to keep to ensure that my group can eat them everyday n be healthy
knowledge to make toothpaste, soap, etc
but what if my group get sick and need doctor/someone who got a knowledge of this?
will there be reward? how to reward? how to get reward? should all things be contract-demand basis then?
if i do this then u do that (based on a good law)
if we break the contract we got to do community service thing/jailed
we got to define "reasonable demand" n no one can beat philanthropists with quality library like brain
then the more knowledgeable we are, the better we are ya?
lazy to learn guy will end up to fulfill other ppl demands and end up to be self sufficient too, n maybe one day s/he will know what s/he want to do
ppl who dunno what they really want will just write 'basic needs' contract
then i'll try to be a problem-solver writing up contract like "if ur problem solved, u got to participate in my 'how to live outside earth' project/tell me how to make my dream come true"
uh i got carried away
anyway, i dun think the world will turn bad, but too many ppl spend their time for money aldy, the change will be a dramatic one to ppl who spend most of their time for it..
i think it's better to create a small replica of this "no money world" somewhere n make it become documentary or reality tv show
Jerrico Usher from Bend, Oregon on January 08, 2011:
Money is an outdated concept, we moved on from the "trade" barter system faster than we're moving from coin to something else... but i think money is a necessity in a few infrastructural ways. If money wasn't there there would be nothing obvious and easy (standardized?)to motivate people to "trade" skills services and other intangible goods for tangible "value" such as money.
in a way money levels the playing field like the internet did for the job market, the music industry, and the movie industry, just in a different way.
It's a sticky grey area, money is... but it's a necessary evil and resource, yet it also inspires hope. Think about it, would you rather be paid 20k in money or sheep(that you likely can't sell to anyone else)? lol, I'm just messin... I love the thought, the effort put into explaining it, and again eerie how close to my own writing yours is... good stuff, made me think a bit about those rolls of gold coins sitting on my desk :) take care man, keep em comin.
Ricky on November 28, 2010:
I dont think money is the root of any human emotion..to be honest, I like the idea of living without such a meaningless creation, but greed, corruption and crimes will remain. These arent produced by money, though it may often be an incentive, human emotions will not vanish along with a form of currency..
ridhu on October 08, 2010:
really i surprise to see this because me too have this same thought......my ambition is a world without money.....
susanmarion from Bunnell on September 29, 2010:
I'm so ready to give it a shot. Perhaps if we didn't do things for money, but instead for the love of doing it, there would be more happy people. I think that the people who didn't want to work or who wanted to steal would not fall through the cracks or be imprisoned, but counseled by concerned people who believe that those people need emotional support and someone to point out their positive traits, their talents. Our system encourages people to ignore those people and to let them fall through the many big cracks. Those people are merely a symptom of a society that isn't working. Not people who need to be further denigrated. You are on the right track.
danno on September 17, 2010:
a world with out money, think of it. greed would disappear. mankinds desire to dominate others would suddenly become a willingness to work for the benefit of others. all the people who are too lazy to work for money will definently be exited about working for others. I can't wait. i can't believe i didn't think of this... oh, that's right i did. when i was five.
Al on September 06, 2010:
I have just one question. How would we, as a now greatly improved and just society, deal with anyone who refused to go along with this utopia? What do we do with somone who refuses to work? Answer me that.( Thats two questions )
Karma on August 28, 2010:
Natural medicines like herbs will provide nutrients and heal diseases.
Easy to hoard 100 lbs. of all varieties of nature grown blood purifying herbs.
Learn now to hunt and live off the land.
The smart will survive, the ignorant will perish.
David (author) from San Antonio, Texas on January 31, 2010:
Thanks for all of the comments guys!
C.V.R: Perhaps a divide may still continue, but technically there is, or should be enough for everyone, so there would be no reason to horde up goods, or steal anything at all.
I'm not exactly sure how the food would be dispersed, but there would be enough. Class and status would be useless and obsolete. Peoples will be equal, all working for the benefit of humanity, instead of working to get by, or working to make ends meet.
Sure some may try and abuse the system, or some may not want any part of it at all, however, it's definitely worth some strong consideration. What we have now, was clearly not the way to go. People like Thomas Jefferson even knew this hundreds of years ago. :(
Disillusioned from Kerala, India on January 30, 2010:
Interesting analysis! But if people have no money, instead of stealing money, they will steal food, clothing, properties etc. Those who have lots of stock of all the essentials of life will then be rich and those have-nots will be poor.
The rich-poor divide will continue!
Katrionawrites from Scotland on January 07, 2010:
Beautifully written hub; I completely agree with the sentiment. Money is responsible for inequality - it is a man made convention and in a perfect world simply should not exist. We have the technology - keep spreading the word.
I love this hub; well done.
Vladimir Uhri from HubPages, FB on January 06, 2010:
I think loving money is root of evil, not having money itself.
Thanks for this hub, friend.
Philipo from Nigeria on December 30, 2009:
Infact I have thought severally how the world would be without money. May be better. May be worse. Money has brought so much problems to the world.