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The Disgusting Side Of Veganism

Wishes you'd keep your veganism to yourself. If meat is murder, then call me Joe Stalin.

The Modern Evangelical Vegan


Most Vegans Are NOT Decent Persons


Shock Tactics, Lies, and Veganism

With apologies to the three lovely and kind vegan women I know, the one Rastafarian and the one Hindu; literally every single other vegan I've encountered on the world wide web is a horrible person, and does everything within their power to ensure there are as few new members of the vegan community as humanly possible. You see, vegans have the single worst public relations campaign in the history of the world.

This page will not be so much a slander of veganism, but a slander of the vegans themselves. They slander themselves royally, and continually, nearly all day, every day, non stop. Humanity, you see, is completely and totally a species of omnivores.

We even have the large brains we have today due to the consumption of meat. Veganism is a study of scientific illiteracy, as the vegans often claim eating meat is "unnatural." Just never mind how utterly false the claim is. Eating meat and cooking food made us the humans we are today.

Are you proud to have a large brain? Thank your meat eating ancestors for it, your large brain and the powers of reasoning and perception it has are thanks to them. In fact, the only reason you are reading this at all is because you are a human or Homo sapien, and the only reason you are that is because your ancestors ate meat. Eating meat made us human.

The problem with the vegan hordes is simple. Vegans don't care about facts. Vegans don't care about science. Veganism is all about feelings. Dumb feelings based in emotional immaturity, and science illiteracy. These fee fees are the foundation of veganism.

Have you heard the vegans claim that Homo sapien is supposed to be either a frugivore or a herbivore? Well, there isn't a scientist in the world who will provide anything of value to substantiate those claims, as they very simply are not true. There isn't a consensus in the medical community that the vegan diet is healthy for humans. Do you know why that is so? It's because the vegan diet is unnatural for humans, and so, not healthy.

Vegans only have a single trick to attempt to sway the non-vegan, and the trick is emotion over logic. Veganism is inherently illogical simply because you are already an omnivore. You were born an omnivore, and there is nothing you can do to change that single, simple fact. When you die, you'll be a dead omnivore.

The typical vegan sales pitch


The United Nations - Pushing Veganism and Compliance to Oligarchy

Is it any wonder that such an evil organization of oligarchy as the United Nations pushes a vegan diet? The science is plain and simple, you are an omnivore, you were born to be that way, and I've already established how humanity only even became what it is for the eating of meat, a high protein diet is essential to the size of our brains.

Thanks to my meat eating ancestors I have air conditioning, we've got automobiles, and computers too. Is it any wonder the United Nations seeks a dumber humanity? A humanity more pliable for slavery? It's no wonder to me, compliance to the United Nations is the death of intellectual behavior, the death of reason, the death of rationality, the death of humanity.

If you are a citizen of North America, ask yourself this one thing. What has the United Nations ever done for you, or anyone in your community? The answer is nothing at all, except seek to undermine your nation's own sovereignty, and for that, the organization should be destroyed.

Recently former president Bill Clinton has endorsed veganism. Are you impressed? I'm not, Bill Clinton, of course, saw to it that a half million persons died of neglect in Iraq during his presidency. That he and his wife are both prostitutes for the United Nations and George Soros, is plain and simple, just read the news.

When it comes to vegan role models, Bill Clinton is as bad as it gets, it could only be worse were George W. Bush or Barack Hussein Obama to push veganism, as either of those two are even more the warmonger than Clinton. If I had to wake up in bed with Hillary Clinton every day, as Bill likely does, I'd go vegan just so I could die sooner rather than later.

Evangelical Veganism


Veganism is anti-science, and based in emotional response, and not logic or truth

Every vegan sales pitch is based in an emotional argument. There's nothing remotely scientific towards the betterment of humanity or the Earth concerning an increase in vegans on the Terra firma. Veganism and vegans presuppose some things to be objective fact, and objectively moral despite them being nothing of the sort. Every human is born an omnivore, and every human dies the same way - an omnivore. The denial that this is so, is simply un-scientific.

Vegetarians are not vegans, as vegetarians consume fine things like eggs, honey, dairy, etc; but even vegetarians lead a lower quality of life. Vegetarians are twice as likely to have allergies, fifty percent more likely to have a heart attack, and nearly fifty percent more likely to have cancer. Veganism or vegetarianism can't even solve any environmental problems, but leave it to a vegan or vegetarian to claim they will, as always, this is based in non-science and faulty "logic."

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Vegan Morality


The Ultimate Shame of Vegans - Forcing Veganism on Pets

Dogs can survive on vegetables, but they will not thrive. Cats are carnivores, and forcing vegan food on a cat is hatred of cats.

Dogs can survive on vegetables, but they will not thrive. Cats are carnivores, and forcing vegan food on a cat is hatred of cats.

The Idiotic Vegan World

Every claim about how veganism is good for the health is patently a false generalization. Every claim that veganism is good for the environment is false science. Every claim that veganism is the right way to live is based entirely upon the notion of an objective morality which does not exist. There is no objective morality, and anyone posing an argument insofar as saying veganism is objectively moral, is an out and out liar. Veganism is a purely subjective moral stance.

If you believe veganism is a morally superior position, that's fine, but it is an opinion only. Thinking other people are supposed to accept an opinion of yours because you say it is right, that isn't going to get you far. It's going to anger the people you talk to.

Veganism goes so very far as to conclude, in the instance of lots of vegan minds, that carnivores are all murderers, and should be eliminated. So the vegan in the common sense, loves animals so very much they want the animals that eat other animals, including humans, eliminated for their perfectly illogical, idiotic vegan world.

Consider the following proposition: humans should exterminate all carnivorous species. This act might seem reasonable from a standpoint of reducing suffering. Why? By their very nature, carnivorous species require that other animals suffer and die so the carnivore can continue living. Since these murder-hungry species are unlikely to respond affirmatively to our polite requests that they kindly stop killing things, we could stop them from doing so, now and forever.

Provided one wishes to reduce the suffering in the world, then, there are really only three answers to the question regarding whether we should exterminate all meat-eating species: “Yes”, because they cause more suffering than they offset (however that’s measured); “No”, because they offset more suffering than they cause; or “I don’t know” because we can’t calculate such things for sure.

Veganism is the position that nature is wrong. Vegans are right, and nature itself is wrong. This is ridiculous, and presupposes the vegan has a higher level of understanding than the great unseen hand governing all things.

There is none more pathetically stupid than the vegan. The vegan believes a world without predators is a perfect world, and thus condemns themselves via their words as the least intelligent among us, and again, that only proves how the meat eating human has a superior and larger brain. Predators are essential to every ecosystem, but don't expect a vegan to comprehend such facts, they've vegan, after all, and should be thought of as mentally ill.

Gary Yourofsky, The Ultimate Vegan Idiot

Gary Yourofsky is just another violent far left wing extremist Jewish terrorist.

Gary Yourofsky is just another violent far left wing extremist Jewish terrorist.

Gary Yourofsky - The Shame of Veganism

When looking for spokesmen or shamans of veganism, charlatans one and all; the persons pushing their subjective moral codes, their anti-science, being the cheerleaders of modern veganism; look no further than Gary Yourofsky. He is if not the ultimate source, he is for many, the primary. He's the source of the fiction of veganism as a moral code. He proliferates an idea as unscientific as there is, that humans are not naturally omnivores. Gary Yourofsky also is famous for saying things so vile, so disgusting, so insane I can't even quote them to you here, on this fine website. You can, however, read his comments on his Wikipedia page.

Whenever you see a grotesque vegan meme meant to shame the omnivore, despite the vegan sharing it also being an omnivore, blame the violent terrorist known as Gary Yourofsky. Whenever you see the false science claiming humanity isn't omnivorous, blame the charlatan known as Gary Yourofsky. Whenever you read of a fool "freeing" the cattle held as "slaves" and then they're involved in fatal car crashes by random motorists, blame vegans such as Gary Yourofsky, as that is what this man is about; He's a terrorist, a fool, he hates scientific fact, and he's the leader of all modern vegans in the English speaking world.

Again, I know Rastafarian vegans who are wonderful humans. I know Hindu vegans I respect, and I do know American vegans who are not disgusting evangelicals who want to shame an omnivore for being what they too are, omnivores. The most of the vegans in the English speaking world, however, are the most disgusting persons you will see. Luckily for all of us, the Yourofsky set only comprises three percent of the population, and with the worst public relations stunts in human history, they won't be growing much. For this, I am very very thankful. Simple facts? Accurate science? Veganism is a filth ideology meant to procure sanctimonious false moral superiority for the vegan.The healthy human is never a vegan.

So in the end what can we say about the common or average vegan? We can say the vegan offers all the science of the creationist. We can say the vegan offers all the humanity of the militant Islamic sort - and that is to say the vegan is anti-science, and anti-humanity.

Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride, Veganism Causes Mental Illness

This content is accurate and true to the best of the author’s knowledge and is not meant to substitute for formal and individualized advice from a qualified professional.

© 2014 Wesman Todd Shaw


Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on February 10, 2020:

Sure, I do agree belief can have a desire component, but I do not believe (for I can not) that belief can be held based entirely on desire in the absence of evidence.

Nice philosophical segment or diversion we have going here. I've been wanting to talk about the nature of belief since the last time someone told me I choose to believe a thing.

Pseudonymous and Anonymous on February 10, 2020:

Belief can also be based on desires. A long time ago, (Not like I was alive for it) there were ads that were like, "Oh, our cigarettes don't cause cancer! Smoking is healthy!" Now we know that smoking is bad for you, but before we knew this, people believed the lies they were told. It wasn't true, but they believed it either way. I guess you could say that they liked what they were using, so they just turned a blind eye and they were in denial. Of course, this isn't the best example, since cigarettes have nicotine which is addictive, but either way, there are many factors in belief. It's not only what you know for sure. And yeah, I know I should probably shut my mouth before I end up in a tough situation, but I'm kinda stubborn, sooooo this is the last comment. (Also, rereading, I realize that it seemed like I was talking about veganism and the thing's we're led to believe and yadayada, but I swear, I was only talking about belief in general)

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on February 10, 2020:

"You can believe what you want..."

That isn't how belief works. I could want to believe the sky is green, but me wanting to believe the sky is green would in no way make the sky look green to me.

I believe the sky is best described, the vastest majority of the time, as blue. I believe this because I'm not blind. I'm able to go outside, and view the sky, and have had this ability for many years now.

I didn't choose it. I would personally prefer the sky to be a forest green color, but I can not believe what I want.

Belief isn't based on desire.

The Logician from then to now on on February 10, 2020:

13, well that explains a lot pseudo anon.

Some advice, wait until you grow up to voice your opinions. I’m not saying don’t have opinions but you are far too young and inexperienced to jump on a band wagon because of stuff you’ve heard but haven’t investigated.

I’d say you are very bright to even care about this issue but wisdom comes with age. Instead of voicing your opinion ask questions. Opinions need a lot of questions to be answered To be valid opinions and every question and answer is a learning experience. Seek for the truth, for the opposite side of every issue before forming your opinions.

Pseudonymous and Anonymous on February 10, 2020:

You can believe what you want. I was just showing my reasoning. Personally, I believe it, but you don't have to, and I never said you had to. My main point was that being vegan isnt purely emotional, and there are other reasons, wether they're correct or not, and that not all, or really even most are as villainous as you made them seem in your article. As for the Louis Pastour thing, I have no idea who that is and I never learned it in my education. That's probably because I'm a thirteen years old girl who hasn't finished her education yet. All I'm asking, is can you please not judge a book by other books you've read? And even if the milk thing isn't true, I technically have to be vegan because of health reasons I won't go into detail for. But yeah. Have a nice day.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on February 10, 2020:

@T - oh yeah. It's nuts, man. And I forgot to even get to the part about there being POOP in the milk.

It's like this guy thinks we can put people on the friggin' moon, but we can't keep blood, pus, or poop out of milk.


Mercy For Animals is one of them. I've not been on Facebook for months, but there's a whole slew of those websites.

Free From Harm, I think is another one, but dang...I'm having trouble thinking of the very biggest one just now.

What I THINK started this thing was actually the Monsanto synthetic bovine growth hormone they created.

Monsanto was trying to sell this chemical to increase milk production, like there was any need to increase milk production - there wasn't, and there isn't.

Anyway, just like you would expect, the thing caused the udders to swell to dang big, and so the use of this Monsanto chemical was literally causing there to be 3 percent, I think, pus in the milk, but that was, of course, before the milk ever got put into processing.

And the end result was all milk sold in the US has to be labelled with whether or not that growth hormone by Monsanto was used in the production.

I had been very very curious about this subject, and so, for a couple years, man, I checked every dang jug of milk at every store I was shopping in, and EVERY SINGLE TIME the milk was labeled that there WAS NO growth hormone used in the production of the milk.

So I wondered just who in the hell was even buying that stuff. I never could find any of it for sale.

I wrote a page about it....probably 9 years ago. It's long gone now. I had to stop myself from getting into subjects which got me so aggravated.

The Logician from then to now on on February 10, 2020:

Wes, the pus thing is just another example of the extremism associated with some vegans.

What is pus? Pus is dead white blood cells, dead skin cells and bacteria, not the live somatic cells you’ll find in milk from healthy cows. Somatic cell count is just one of many tests done on each and every batch of milk to ensure high quality milk.

Regular milk does not contain blood or pus. Blood and pus may be present in the milk when the cow’s udder is infected with bacteria (mastitis) but this milk is discarded by the farmer and is not sent to the factory.

Before milk enters the milk collection vat it also passes through a filter which removes any undetected and unwanted material such as milk clots or organic material.

A sensory test is then undertaken before the milk goes into the milk tanker to detect any discolouration, odour or foreign material and the milk is rejected if it fails this test.

At the factory the milk is further filtered and subjected to a number of tests to assess its quality. The Bulk Milk Cell Count is performed on every farmers’ vat, which tests the number of white blood cells present in the milk, indicating mastitis. Regular tests are also conducted to detect bacteria and bacterial cells which is a measure of the milking plant hygiene, milk cooling efficiency and milking cleanliness. Farmers receive reduced payments if these tests are above an acceptable level, so they always strive to produce high quality milk.

Pseudo anon probably got it’s information from a site like this that doesn’t tell the whole story

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on February 10, 2020:

LOL! Show me some proof that any milk I've ever purchased or consumed had any puss or blood in it to speak of.

You never learned about Louis Pasteur in school? That's awful. Taxation is theft, and your poor public education is proof of this.

Pseudonymous and Anonymous on February 09, 2020:

Hi so um can you try doing some research? Because There are other reasons. Being vegan isnt purely emotional. I'm vegan, (well I have a Plant based diet) and it's based purely on health. I do like animals, but not enough to give up sausages, or filet mignon etc. I'm vegan because of the just plain disgusting things in the food. There is pus in milk, blood in milk, and at some point in time, they had to get rid of and stop selling a shipment of milk because it "had too much cow poop" meaning that it's legal for milk to have a certain amount of cow poop in it. That's all I can remember off the top of my head, but I'm asking you, please don't judge a whole community based on a few weird people that you don't like. I promise you, not every vegan is like what you described, and I'm sure that if you just kind of were more accepting, the comments wouldn't all be attacking you. Thanks for your time. Hope you have a nice day.

Suzie from Carson City on November 26, 2019:

Poppy......No,I did not take your comment in a negative way. Had I, I'd not have commented back. I'd have completely ignored you. I understood what you meant. You see, despite the fact that I'm older than dirt & a member of the Hub Geriatrics Writers Guild, I have a huge assortment of grandchildren who lovingly keep Ole GramDawg up-to-date on what's cool, acceptable & copacetic in 2019 and what's not.

Thanks for the follow, BTW. Paula

Poppy from Enoshima, Japan on November 26, 2019:

Paula, "savage" is a compliment! I hope you didn't take it the wrong way :)

I live near Tokyo and loving it! You gained a new follower; your comments are so funny!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 26, 2019:


Suzie from Carson City on November 26, 2019:

Wes.....No need to address me as "Christ." "Your Highness," will do.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 26, 2019:

Christ. Hopefully she's staying safe in Hong Kong.

Suzie from Carson City on November 26, 2019:

Poppy....I've been called worse and I wear ALL my labels with much pride. Better &bolder than that, I do not and probably will never, apologize for being ME! What are you doing in Hong Kong??

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 26, 2019:

Oh my fee fees! MY FEE FEES!

I wonder if that girl grew up to be that person who was screaming "NOOOOOOOOOO" when it was announeced that Donald Trump was elected.

I can hardly wait for the re-election, but there's not a single decent Dem candidate, and so I doubt people will even be shocked at all this time.

That reminds me. Just yesterday Trump signed a thing for the protection of animals. Sounded like a good bill. It's the kind of thing where you wonder, "Jeeze, why wasn't there already a law against making animal torture films?"

Oh hey wait, remember that time PETA literally paid someone to skin a mink alive, so they could film it, and then go say, "OHMYGOD LOOK THEY SKIN MINKS ALIVE!"

So the think Trump signed yesterday would make that thing the PETA freaks did a felony!

Dang nice work.

Poppy from Enoshima, Japan on November 26, 2019:

Damn Paula, you're a savage!

Suzie from Carson City on November 26, 2019:

.Wes......I had an employee years ago (who was a royal pain in my A,,) for more reasons than I can list right now. She was a sweet kid, but quite strange. One day she calls in work and is hysterical......I waited for her to tell me one of her parents died or something just as tragic. She was sobbing so hard, I could barely understand her.

Finally, I asked her to pull herself together and tell me what was wrong.

Well, you see.......she couldn't come to work, she was simply devastated......."her goldfish died." I muffled my end of the phone for a few seconds so she couldn't hear me laughing. Then I said, "Well, honey, I understand. Now you need to understand me, OK? Tomorrow morning, after the funeral, you might want to go file at the unemployment office & Friday, come and get your last check. Now, I'll leave you to grieve.....Bye bye."

I know this is nearly impossible to believe, but trust me, I WAS THERE! It takes all kinds you know.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 15, 2019:

Well thank you! Now, it's true I don't really get out a whole lot. I'm usually busy being very very reclusive, and only socializing on the internet.

But I've never actually met a vegan. I've met some vegetarians for sure. I've never met a vegan.

So I started thinking vegans don't really even exist. They're just something that exists on the internet. And though I know I'm a little bit imaginative, and that surely there are vegans out there - I know from my Facebook experience they don't last long.

You get these fire and brimstone people coming in and oh they've got the spirit of the prophet Yourofsky in them LOLOLOL

Then after a month or three, they're never seen or heard from again. Why? Because they dropped completely out of veganism. It's no worry for the vegans though, they get lots of fresh recruits, and the new ones aren't going to last long either.

The men are the worst. The women sometimes will stick with veganism, very passionately.

Of course you are completely correct people online are not like people in front of you. You just can't act so aggressively towards the persons within arm reach.

This idea of telling total strangers what they do and do not NEED pisses me off to no end.

I experiment with stuff. I've gone a week at a time eating vegan, and I felt weak and weird for doing it. I believe my record for all meat was 5 days, and I felt fine, I just wanted to eat some dang potatoes after that long.

Poppy from Enoshima, Japan on November 15, 2019:

I've known two vegans in person and neither has tried to push their beliefs on me. Most of the crazy stuff is what I see on the internet, and what we see online is often greatly different from what we experience when dealing with people in real life. I sometimes drink soy milk instead of cow's because many cows do live in misery for the sake of mass production, but I don't care enough to stop eating beef lol. I suppose the only time all humans will go vegan is if we're absolutely forced to.

I agree with you on many things in this article. You're right; people who make their carnivorous pets be vegan are evil and are deliberately depriving them of essential nutrients. You're also right that it's hilarious that vegans insist they're healthy while having to take supplements. A lot of vegans wear their diet choice as a badge of honour and it makes them smug, which makes them insufferable. I'll be honest though, I see a lot more people complaining about smug vegans than actual smug vegans.

Well done on all the comments, by the way! That's a huge achievement :D

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 14, 2019:

Thanks very much! I certainly agree veganism is all based on emotional arguments, and not factual ones.

It's like when I say, 'I'm 45 years old now. I eat mostly meat. My blood pressure is perfect, and I don't have any health problems'

A vegan will say, 'enjoy your ass cancer.'

As though they've got some sort of crystal ball and are all knowing, certain I'll get bowel cancer.

Don't get me started on vegans talking about my erections. They sure do think about my erections a lot. It's kind of creepy.

Umesh Chandra Bhatt from Kharghar, Navi Mumbai, India on November 14, 2019:

Very interesting article. The author's contention that what we are today is because of eating meat deserves merit. If we do not want to eat it because we are animal lovers or do not like it because there are vegetable alternatives, that is entirely a different matter. So this is a continuous fight between logic and emotion.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 09, 2018:

Mike, she's lucky you were there. Had she got inbetween the fox and its natural meal, she'd have got mauled - and then have had to had a large round of rabies shots for it all. Such things cost money, of course, and all that is besides the pain.

Perfect story concerning the vegan mindset, and what is really disturbing is those persons often think they can force a cat to become vegan, and they wonder why the cat becomes ill and dies. They will never acknowledge the blame lies with them for such instances.

I try to eat more meat than anything else. Most of my calories come from non plant sources. It's what keeps me the most fit. I'm never going to stop eating the vegetables I like though, as my mind isn't swayed by cults or bad diet fads, like veganism. :)

Readmikenow on November 09, 2018:

Wesman, good article. Thought I'd share a story with you.

Went backpacking one time with a person and their 20 something daughter who was a vegan. She was a nice girl, and didn't give me a bad time. One day, late in the evening, we saw a fox take down a rabbit. This is how nature works. She started running toward the fox and I physically restrained her. She wanted to rescue the rabbit. You DO NOT get between any wild animal and its kill. She was crying hysterically. I mean she was out of it. Her dad took care of her. The next day, she went to were the fox took the rabbit, and put a cross and conducted a funeral service for it. I found that a bit strange. I tried to tell her it's not like the Fox could order out for dinner. This is how it survived. She didn't care. I tell the vegans in my family I'll give up eating meat when Grizzly bears stop. We have pretty much the same diet. The big difference is I do have a thing for cooking my food, but other than that....

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 09, 2018:

Hahaha Ken, there's little I dislike as much as veganism.

Ken Burgess from Florida on November 09, 2018:

Uhmm, interesting perspective, you veganist.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on November 09, 2018:

Vegans are the most pathetic persons I ever talk to. I read their commentary daily on Facebook. Need a mirror to look at yourself in, Andrew?

Andrew Wright on November 09, 2018:

This is the most pathetic article I've ever read. You have no idea what the true meaning of veganism is.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on October 19, 2018:

Thank you, Earthling - perhaps it is the cruelty which makes my meat centered meals so very delicious and nutritious.

Earthling on October 14, 2018:

You do a great job at promoting animal cruelty!

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on August 26, 2018:

Hi Carrie.

For me, I've never really had to worry about diet much. I definitely seem to feel better when eating mostly meat though.

Shoot, you can't get to know 'a vegan's heart' as they only thing vegans tend to ever talk about is veganism, and lots of out of context science things, and other forms of being factually incorrect.

Carrie Lee Night from Northeast United States on August 26, 2018:

Interesting hub. As the world turns, there will always be a disagreement when it comes to diet. We are all different and while vegan may work for some, recently there has been a flock to keto diets and such that are working for others. For me, personally I like a balance diet. As far as vegans being mean people, I wouldnt know as I have never came across a person who brought up their diet as defining who they are. Get to know the heart first. I can only hope you have better experiences in the future :)

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 16, 2018:

The time I was duped was when I was uneducated in the sciences, and believed in some literal creation fantasy out of Genesis. I'm not sure I was ever crazy enough to believe that. I know myths exist to describe complex truths concealed in simple tales full of symbols that represent something vastly more complex than they appear to represent.

The biological sciences do not exist to defame Christians. I'm always sad when I run into Christians who think that way. Well, I'm not in charge of what other people think.

The Logician from then to now on on July 15, 2018:

I’m not trying to convince you of anything Wes, except that you are making conclusions that appear to be made based simply upon whims about Genesis and evolution, rather than actually seriously investigating either. I like you Wes, we see eye to eye on many things and from what you’ve said I think you would alter your “take” if you did some serious investigating of these two issues like you have others you write about. But I’m not looking to push you to believe anything, only to suggest to you you haven’t even begun to learn enough about your takes on these two things to come to any conclusions. Admit it, you havdn’t Even read anything like the link I gave you. As much as you want to dismiss that website it is run by top notch scientists and if you investigated it you would discover that your takes on these aren’t your independent conclusions but that you have been duped to believe things that aren’t true - if there is anything I think you would hate it would be being duped.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 15, 2018:

There are atheists who say Jesus never existed, despite the famous eyewitness accounts.

If you don't see something yourself, it's always something you either take on faith, or you chose not to. Everyone has to decide what they do or don't believe, and I mean there is a hell of a lot of things to go through.

The notion that the creationist take, that the Earth is 6 thousand years old, that's perfectly absurd. We can find entire skeletons of animals completely unlike anything alive today in places like the tar pits in California - it's no big stretch to know that things go back much, much further than that.

I've no qualms with the theory that the earth is over 4 billion years old. I've massive problems with a 6 thousand year old earth.

Reconciling science with theology is what I'm all about.

The Logician from then to now on on July 15, 2018:

So which are you the simple or the wise? I have to conclude neither by what you just said.

You have historical eyewitness acts of George Washington, pictures, facts we know are true proving he existed so I don’t see your you now you’ve thought about it? There is no such evidence I am aware of attesting to what happened 3 million years ago. Your George Washington anology can’t apply. Actually all you can say is that your ideas about the appearance of humans is no less your “take” on it than your “take” on Genesis. Knowing how analytical you are I can’t understand why you would have such “takes” on two opposing views without serious investigation of either. Especially when one is a world view that promises the possibility of eternal life and the other actually promises nothing, gives life and living no meaning beyond the idea that we are simply chemical reactions running their course and ending as if we never were.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 15, 2018:

Going by eye witness account, I've no proof that George Washington existed. I don't think science is a big conspiracy theory against Christians or anything.

I think Moses was such an amazing genius, or so inspired by God that he could write an account of creation to where the simple and the wise could both be satisfied - as both need to have a foundation idea.

The Logician from then to now on on July 15, 2018:

So Wes, i’ve Followed you enough to know you are someone who does analyze and investigate things pretty thoroughly so I’m just wondering, have you talked to an eyewitness to what was happening here 3 1/2 million years ago? I mean you must have some sort of eyewitness or historical account to know what and how things occurred 3 1/2 million years ago, right? Or is that just your take on that too?

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 15, 2018:

My take on that is that nearly everything in Genesis is an allegory. Adam and Eve, of course, are archetypes and not individuals. Also, they'd have been pre-human primates without much in the way of self awareness.

We became humans or Homo sapien around 3 and a half million years ago when our ancestors learned to use fire, other tools, and eat meat - which allowed (the combination of those things) our brains to grow to the large and complex size they are today.

Someone can be vegan, and that's all fine with me. But you have to either eat way too many carbohydrates to get a sense of being full. Too many carbs without the exercise to go along with it, and you're headed for obesity and diabetes.

The other way you can be vegan is to ....freaking eat constantly. And you'd also have to poop pretty well more often than you'd like as a result.

It's much healthier and more convenient to eat nutrient dense meat. Myself, I probably get 75% of my calories from meat, milk, cheese, etc. And it keeps me thin, and I don't have to eat very much or often.

Another thing is these vegans claim they love animals. Well, it doesn't add up at all. More animals are killed in the harvesting of vegetables than would be killed were the vegan to just eat mostly beef, as one dead cow renders a hell of a lot of usable food. One acre of harvested wheat, or whatnot, and who even knows how many birds, lizards, and small mammals are killed in threshers, etc. Or just displaced for the use of the land for vegetable farming.

The Logician from then to now on on July 15, 2018:

Hey Wes, very interesting article. You gave me a perspective on this I had not considered and I might say I agree with a lot of what you say about vegans and their approach. I find it commendable that you point out from the start you are not slandering veganism. Since your point is “the disgusting side of veganism” you are implying there is a good side, well at least a not disgusting side to it, and there is. Below is a summary of this link (which is quite long) so I just posted the summary but you might find it an interesting read if you are interested further.

Summary and conclusion

If there were a scarcity of resources and if the modern day food chain were in operation, then they must have been there by the design of God. Yet the biblical record does not suggest this at all. The Bible records that the finished creation did possess a sufficient amount of resources. God allowed the animals to eat from anywhere on the surface of the earth, so could man. He told the animals to eat from any ‘plant’; man could eat from any ‘plant’ or ‘fruit’ that had seeds, the one exception being the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

In the finished creation animals were to eat only vegetation. The studies of herb, seed, and fruit confirm this fact. There is no other option as one examines the biblical record. All the animals and every human were to eat from the plant kingdom; they were not to eat flesh. Even those animals who today eat insects, then consumed only plants.

If the biblical record is true, then it appears that a great change occurred within creation. The biblical models proposed suggest a sudden, and even catastrophic, change that would have left no fossil evidence behind. The diet of the present day animals suggests that the traditional association of teeth and jaw structure might be flawed. Indeed, the animal kingdom appears to support the idea that herbivory is the original condition of creation. This also suggests that God introduced carnivory into His creation only after man fell into sin.

One thing is certain; God intended His animal creation to be vegetarian. He communicated this fact clearly in Genesis 1:30. This raises an interesting problem for anyone who believes that God used evolution, or any other naturalistic means, as His creative process. He must call God a liar. He must declare that God did not mean what he said about the diet of man and animals. He must assert that the type of world that we observe today has always existed in its present form with the same processes in effect. Such a position denies what God says plainly through His Word. One must, in humble obedience, simply believe God at His word. God, through His Word, clearly shows that the original, created creatures were to eat only plants

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on July 15, 2018:

Hey thanks. I keep planning to write more about horrible veganism.

Rulya Karen on July 15, 2018:

Hi Todd! Awesome article.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on January 24, 2018:

Hey thanks! I keep meaning to do some work on this article. It's years old, and I can probably think of better ways to say things, and make other sorts of improvements as well. Vegans seriously annoy me sometimes. I do groups on Facebook where their almost never factual posts inspire me to ...ahem, provide critiques of them.

ptosis from Arizona on January 24, 2018:

suggested video to add : which is about 'If Meat Eaters Acted like Vegans

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on December 20, 2017:

A lot of the militant vegans seem to believe that ranchers would be willing to spend all the time and money to care for animals....and get absolutely nothing in return for it.

Vegans and animal rights activists aren't people who can be relied on to have thought much of anything out.

Really, 99% of the vegans are persons who are seriously anti-social. They dislike humanity entirely, and so they find that via a seriously unhealthy diet, they can presume themselves to have some sort of moral authority.

My favorite thing is when they say, 'oh we have compassion for animals, so we don't eat them.'

Hey, well, I don't eat snakes, I don't eat rats. Does this mean, then, that I've got compassion for snakes and rats? LOL

Suzie from Carson City on December 20, 2017:

Wesman my friend, what shall we do with all the meat eaters in the world? That's the question that repeats over and over in my mind when the veggie victors give their speeches. My thought is, Eat whatever you choose, bucko, I can't honestly think of anything I care less about than what you choose to consume...what you wear, how you speak, where you live or what living creature you choose to have sex with. Go crazy bro......just don't be so presumptuous to think anyone really CARES.....I can promise you, we don't.

Let's just suppose (CRAZY as it is) that every single human being never ate meat again. Nothing, not a bite ever....ZERO meat consumption. What is your Plan B......oh, not for humans......I mean Plan B for the animals? Please someone here explain this to me in clear, well-written English. able to be understood and conceived. I'll be waiting here while I munch on my carrots.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on December 20, 2017:

My meals are nice every single day, because I never eat a vegan meal.

Amanda on December 20, 2017:

My written English may be poor, not my mother tongue though. How many languages can you speak fluently? Have a nice day hater.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on December 19, 2017:


I honestly couldn't finish reading your comment because it was so poorly written, but I noticed a bunch of the common, unsubstantiated claims based on the vegan cult religion.

Amanda on December 19, 2017:

I honestly couldn't finish the article. I'm sorry but it's really bad written and you give no arguments whatsoever. Veganism is not based on us being omnivores or not, it's a moral issue. The way we produce meat, eggs and dairy is simply cruel and unfair with the animals. It's also bad for the environment and saying that this is not true is a lie. Producing meat contaminates more than all transportation together. Way more. And by the way, high protein consumption might has brought us here, but it's killing us now. Ask any serious nutritionist. High consumption of meat is linked to cancer, heart disease and obesity. We do need protein, but eating a small peace once or twice a week is more than enough. Anyway, I don't want to get into more details because I don't think you'd listen, I think you deeply hate vegans and veganism for some reason and won't even consider any of their arguments.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on October 08, 2017:

Global production and consumption of meat and dairy continue to rise. But delusional vegans think veganism will take over the world. Just like delusional Islam and delusional communists.

Adam on October 08, 2017:

This post was so uneducated it hurt my brain. You've fallen - like many - for the loud minority in what is a very loving and compassionate group of people. But I'm not angry at you, attitudes towards veganism are changing rapidly and we are now at the beginning of the vegan revolution whether people like it or not. I went vegan not so long back, never felt happier of healthier...go figure.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on January 20, 2017:

Interesting comment. I agree my perspective of 'how vegans are' is skewed by the internet, where most of them which I see are militant, self righteous, and evangelical. I see the most poorly constructed arguments and the least scientifically valid claims imaginable. But what else can we expect from Facebook?

Chuck Bluestein from Morristown, AZ, USA on January 20, 2017:

Vegans are just like people or white people. Some do bad things and some do good things. Both Jesus and Hitler were white people and some worship them. But they are known for different things. They have also created the term plant-based diet to refer to a diet and not to beliefs. Some people also like to enforce their religion on others. All people like to do this except Jews. That is because their religion is also a culture of people who lived in the middle east 10,000 years ago.

Note that Chelsea Clinton is married to a Jew but she is not Jewish. Also the oldest daughter of Donald Trump, Ivanka Trump, is married to a Jew but she is now Jewish. So the President has Jewish grandchildren.

Bill Clinton is no longer vegan. He now eats lots of dead animals.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 27, 2016:

Bobski, bet you know less about cancer than the average vegan. And the average vegan doesn't know a thing about cancer. So you have a negative total understanding of cancer, I'd wager.

Protein synthesis? Ever heard the term? Rhetorical question.

Bobski on June 27, 2016:

You guys make me laugh. Hope you all enjoy living a lie. Ill be over here not getting cancer. See ya.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 14, 2016:

Hi Rebecca. I'm about as immature and unlearned as the human male can become. And when I was writing pages like this one, the whole thing was brand new to me. I had quite honestly, so far as I had known, never heard of veganism before...about 3 or 4 years ago.

Had some vegetarians in the family That didn't bother me none. I'm so blind to greater reality I can imagine that just maybe veganism is synonymous to some sort of superior virtue. But I rarely think that way. The deal breakers, the two biggest things which I can not process - are the idea it is 'wrong' to eat unfertilized chicken eggs. And that it is wrong to eat honey.

Those two ideas are so beyond my version of reality they lose me quickly, and absolutely.

Yes, I know about the male chicks at the egg factories. Hey, we've lots of chickens right here where I live. But do not our dogs and such who get fed by the infant chicks also deserve to eat?

It gets mega tricky when one goes into what creature deserves this or that. Lets forget I brought that up. But I'm going to go with my dogs over baby chicks in an industrial plant, because I do get to make a choice.

Rebecca Burg from Florida on June 14, 2016:

An, uhm, interesting article, but-wow- you sure take certain dietary choices of others and make it personal. I enjoy your hubs and you're very knowledgeable, but I'm just trying to figure out why vegans' crappy attitudes are taken so seriously. In college, there were a few assholes who actively slandered meat eaters, but they were just immature kids. They eventually grew out of their us-vs-them attitudes.

The few adult vegans I know are kind people who don't make moral judgments or despise me for eating a fish sandwich. Those who do make a big deal out of nothing are ignored.

Regardless of the creepy propaganda of the vegans who possess pious attitudes, I'll never let them "guilt" me for my dietary choices or force me to bend to their level by lashing back in kind with a similar amount of hate.

It seems those strident, inflammatory types of vegans have personality problems or other issues that make them what they are. Lack of a mature sense of wisdom or something. Maybe this dietary choice is a convenient springboard to act out a sociopathic interest in discord or to validate their illusion of superiority.

The focus needs to be recentered on vegan/vegetarian dietary choices for health and well-being, not for trying to "prove" something and make carnivores feel bad.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on April 15, 2016:

Far and away, without doubt - the most hateful people on the internet are all vegans. Ignorance is a form of hatred in and of itself, and the memes I see daily on facebook are things proud of being ignorant, and thus, are hateful to rational persons everywhere.

Comparing slavery and genocide to a healthy diet? That's flat out evil, and racist besides, but that's just common veganism.

I'm not even... on April 15, 2016:

Seriously, saying vegans are the most hateful and crazy people in the world while preaching up a frenzy of what level of morons they are to a group of people that share your conflict-seeking view? bit rich...

Many at my research lab are vegan, and I have vegan friends who raised children competely plant based. Wouldn't even know they were vegan if I wouldn't have asked why they don't pour dairy milk in their coffee. The common vegan is like any other person, they don't stick out, their food looks like omnivore food and nobody really bats an eye at any of it. Don't see why you have to generalize so much

Marc on April 15, 2016:

This is such an incredibly hate-filled piece of propaganda. One-sided and low, opening with character assassination rather than a deliberate and clear account of the issue. You have plenty of good hubs; this is not one of them.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on December 31, 2015:

Where's the link to show the brain size/meat eating thing was 'debunked?'

johnny25 on December 27, 2015:

There is so much hate in this rant-- and most of the supporting comments. It is sad that people want to go through life finding other people to hate and make fun of. The fact is that most people (not just vegans) like animals and don't want to see them suffer or be a part of their suffering. Can't we start with that common ground? Vegans are not horrible people. Sure, there are good people and bad people in every grouping of human beings, so there are probably at least a couple who are not saints. But, the definition of vegan is someone who has made a personal decision to not eat or use animals products. Why does this threaten you? If they are sharing information with you, they are probably responding to a question YOU asked. Either that or they are genuinely trying to save your life, the lives of suffering animals and a ravaged planet. For THIS you hate them? That is sad.

Suzie from Carson City on November 21, 2015:

Wesman!!!! I have seen your name pop up more than once in the past few days......ARE YOU BACK WITH US?? Well, you gotta know Effer is one happy old lady! I have missed you so much. I've even pulled your site up a few times to see if there was any activity. But walked away very sad.

Of course you've missed me too, don't try to deny it! LOL I know your Mom does an excellent job of supervising, but YOU my strange and wonderful friend, need a "Mom" watching out for you at all times!!

So, tell me....have you settled your butt down with that cute little Texan sweetie and had a little Wesman? LOL. I'm so happy I can nag you again.

Vegans? Yuk. I am not a bunny rabbit (unfortunately I'm also not a Playboy bunny) Besides that, I enjoy all food far too much to deny myself much of anything. I don't believe I know any vegans or they haven't come out of their garden closet to confess.

I do know several people who are staunch vegetarians, but I also have noticed they wear a whole lot of leather......LOL "People" in general are so much fun, aren't they? WHO the hell cares what I eat or you eat or when, where and how you prepare it? Wesman, things are getting pretty damned scary (or scarier) when ANYBODY has the time or the interest to stick their nose in our lunch bags! Enough is enough. And I thought all these crazies were happy enough thoroughly investigating our bedrooms.......NOW THEY'RE IN MY KITCHEN?? No way...I have to put my foot down somewhere! My pantry is sacred ground.

So good to see you !! Love. Effer

The Logician from then to now on on November 20, 2015:

@Lee Passman, nice try. A one sided video piece of propaganda you evidently swallow hook line and sinker without even looking at a fact check, or opposing point of view of which there are many, but you aren't interested in the truth or you would present at least one case for criticism of cowspiracy and maybe a rebuttal but there is no rebuttal for it's shortcomings, like: "The great weakness of Cowspiracy, other than its title, is its single minded determination to prove that veganism is the only reasonable approach to feeding people, a proof it pursues without regard for facts or nuance."

jsjsjs on November 19, 2015:

Hahahaha you are ridiculous.

Ramilyn from India on August 12, 2015:

Eating meat made human brain grow big has been debunked already.

Lee Passman on June 27, 2015:

Animal agricultural is a leading cause of climate change:

Williams on May 23, 2015:

This is clearly an aggravated opinion piece. You seem to spend a great deal of time slandering people who follow a Vegan lifestyle and criticizing them for shoving their opinions down others' throats. Not all vegans are angry and condescending. This is an opinion, a stereotype. The majority of vegans who I have met are compassionate at respectful of everyone, even those who do not agree with their lifestyle choices.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 13, 2014:

The notion that abusive or sadistic treatment of animals is the norm or universal at factory farms is the exact notion the vegan wants everyone to believe - but the total number of such videos and such is minuscule, and then there've been instances where, literally, PETA persons were staging the you had PETA abusing animals to make it look like animal abuse was going on at factory farms....lovely stuff. Also, Animal Liberation Front...or "ALF" was involved in some mock ups (where animals were literally abused by animal rights people) for the same sure, some real cases exist, but to say that's the NORM...LOL, no way.

Xavier Nathan from Isle of Man on June 13, 2014:

Further to my last comment how would you justify what is happening in this video?

I do eat meat but when I see the process involved in getting that meat to my table I do feel sick and think it is time to stop eating meat.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 12, 2014:

It's just FASCINATING to me to see how angry the majority of vegans are at the world. The reason they're so angry is they insist that the lives of cows are as valuable as the lives of humans....and if someone truly believed that, then it makes sense to be angry at meat eaters....but's ridiculous.

You'll hear them say the lives of chickens are as valuable as the lives of humans. Chickens? They've got brains so small it's incomprehensible to literally believe they are so aware as a human.

I think sane people value ecology and know our industrial world is messed up, and that probably, most Americans and Europeans eat too much meat....but veganism is extreme and is often based in a lack of any sort of scientific understanding, and combined with a seriously skewed sense that the vegan is the only person who understands morality, or "knows what's really going on." Most vegans, and I said "most," think that because they are vegan, they are morally superior to non-vegans, and that's where the real laughs are found.

Debra Allen from West Virginia on June 12, 2014:

Spirit just proved your point! LOL

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 12, 2014:

Well I believe I said I know of five who're not completely insane, in fact the five are pretty normal - which is strange as the entire rest of them are extremely angry individuals.

Xavier Nathan from Isle of Man on June 12, 2014:

You make very good points here but am never able to understand why anyone would clump a whole group of people together as you do here to simply to criticise their beliefs. Aren't we all a slave to perception and as such we are each slaves to our own beliefs? What are you doing any differently than the people you are criticising? I say live and let live. If you want to eat meat or don't want to eat meat knock yourself out! I did however enjoy the read and can tell that you are a genuine person. Thank you.

Debra Allen from West Virginia on June 03, 2014:

I like that quote! I am going to post it on my FB page right now!

Beverly Stevens from College Station on June 03, 2014:

Here's a quote I like, “You're thinking I'm one of those wise-ass California vegetarians who is going to tell you that eating a few strips of bacon is bad for your health. I'm not. I say it's a free country and you should be able to kill yourself at any rate you choose, as long as your cold dead body is not blocking my driveway.” Scott Adams

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 02, 2014:

I'd like everyone to be more informed about what they're eating....after that, shit, it's their own decision; and there's sure nothing I can do to literally stop anyone from doing what they want to do, you know.

The evangelical vegan folks are just whacko to me. I do know of some that simply share their recipes or say encouraging or whatnot types of things - they are the MINORITY of that crowd for sure!

Debra Allen from West Virginia on June 02, 2014:

OMG you do bring it right out into the open. Every time I get involved with the McDonald's beef Those ugly people come out in droves. The thing is why are they trying to tell us what we should and should not eat and put into our own bodies. No One is forcing them to eat a burger at McDonald's. There are other vegan foods at those fast foods. I get trampled on by gibberish from them too WTS and you have seen it on my FB pages sometimes.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 02, 2014:

Deliberate Writer - Thanks Very Much! I'm in a large "vegans vs meat eaters" group on Facebook...and after observing that shindig for a few months I really had to vent.

Luci from Oregon on June 02, 2014:

I loved reading this article. I live in Oregon and have encountered many people who would say similar things to the things you mentioned and it always grates on me. Many times, their arguments are completely one-sided or illogical. This was a good read :D

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 02, 2014:

tebo - good deal! The majority of the vegans are what I think of as evangelicals. They really do act like they're in some sort of cult, and have their own weird lingo, using their diet to attempt to prove to themselves and others they have special knowledge, and an advanced morality or something.

tebo from New Zealand on June 02, 2014:

Interesting article. I am a vegetarian, not vegan. I do not push my way of life on to others, however I do find they try to influence me. i live with my two meat eating sons and do cook for them. I eat eggs, and dairy products - love cheese - love it more now they make cheese with vegetarian rennet! I was truly pissed off when I first found out B12 could only be found in animal products because I thought it was a strange world we live in where every animal and every human relies on eating another species to survive. Of course there are many vegetarian animals on the planet, elephants for instance - enormous in size and plant eaters. When I watch wild animal programs they are filled with so much fear - who is going to be attacked next? I don't watch them anymore. It's a sad world and whoever came up with the idea of lets eat each other needs their head read. As I said I don't push my barrow. I just decided at some point 30 years ago to stop eating animals. I am still alive, much to my fathers disbelief at the time. I now work at a hospice and part of my job is menus. I have worked here for two years and have probably only had less than 5 patients who are vegetarian. I realise that vegetarians are in the minority, so less likely to be patients, but I also see it as an anecdotal evidence of eating less animal products being healthy. I stress I never went this road for health reasons, only for the animals health. I think the idea is to do your own thing and not try to influence other people to follow your philosophy.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 01, 2014:

tsadjatko - being ecologically and biologically illiterate, not to mention physiologically illiterate, that's just what vegans ARE 99% of the time.

Trying to talk science with a vegan is a losing proposition, as they're not on par. It's like bringing a nuclear weapon to a fisst fight, the vegan is never capable of even being there.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 01, 2014:

MarleneB - that's just it. Vegans in the USA most often use veganism as a vehicle to feel as though they are superior persons. They are sanctimonious with out any logic, without objectivity, without sanity.

Very sad story you tell there - the story of a vegan, a person without much of a conscious.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 01, 2014:

ashleighann - all animals are not created equal. An ecosystem is an extremely complex thing. Valuing a snail the same as a bobcat is to say you are completely illiterate in regards to how an ecosystem works

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on June 01, 2014:

tlpoague - I am proud of your son too! Veganism is a radical ideology based on emotion and NEVER fact or anything scientific.

Tammy on May 31, 2014:

This was an interesting article that brings to mind a relationship my son experienced. He was dating a girl that was vegan. She use to get so mad and chastise him for eating meat. One day he decided he had enough and told her that she could like him how he was or move on. Then he took a big out the biggest cheeseburger he could order. She claimed he was disgusting and left him. I have to say that I was proud of my son for standing up for himself and amazed at how she had treated him. She had no shame and never apologized for her actions or words.

The Logician from then to now on on May 31, 2014:

Ashleighann, where do you get your definition of soul?

"What kind of creature deserves all that? A soul is a soul, no matter the form."

souls, or at least immortal souls, belong only to human beings. Unless of course you are Jainis or Hindu, and good luck with those beliefs...or maybe you ascribe souls to everything animate and inanimate as Animism does.

And I have news for you - no matter how many people on earth refuse to eat meat because of "factory farming and the horrible conditions of these animals while held in captivity only to suffer gruesome deaths" it is not going to stop those practices so why is that a reason to stop eating meat? If that is your reason what do you think of the rest of us who like to eat meat, are we insensitive hardhearted people?

Instead of not eating meat you could find meat that isn't produced the way you described, hunters do it all the time.

So I wonder if that reason isn't to dissuade guilt for eating meat made those ways but to make you feel better than the rest of us insensitive meat eaters.

Marlene Bertrand from USA on May 31, 2014:

I have to admit that I have not met a vegan who had a compassionate heart when it comes to their "cause". They go to restaurants where they KNOW the establishment serves meat and make the waiter feel bad because he works there. I saw a television show where a waitress was a vegan. The owner was wondering why business was dwindling. Well, an undercover "sting" revealed that this vegan waitress was refusing to take orders for people who ordered meat. In fact, the waitress was rude to the meat-eating customers and to those customers who insisted on ordering meat, she would downright lie and tell them the restaurant was out of meat. I say, if you don't want to be around people who eat meat, then don't go to restaurants where meat is served. I believe it is as much my right to eat meat as it is a vegan's right to eat vegetables. Oh, and somewhere I read that vegetables cry when we cut them. I don't know if that's true, but vegans might want to explore crying veggies to the same level that they explore meat. Just a thought.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on May 31, 2014:

Without animal protein in your diet you are hurting yourself and all of your family. YOu can get it vegetarian, but you can't get it vegan.

ashleighann from GEORGIA on May 31, 2014:

I tried to read your article with an open mind to both sides of the age old argument. However, I found it very difficult because , well, to put all the 'i love animals, save the world' view aside, I am a vegetarian for the past 2 years now. Not Vegan. In those last 2 years, I have felt great and do not have any desire to take a vitamin for "missing essential vitamins only found in meat" . Also, what initially made me become interested in a meat-free lifestyle/diet was factory farming and the horrible conditions of these animals while held in captivity only to suffer gruesome deaths. What kind of creature deserves all that? A soul is a soul, no matter the form. All animals of the land and sea are deserving of a quality life. Another point I felt I should make is that protein can be found elsewhere besides consuming meat. My main forms of protein are found in eggs ( which i hope to switch to veganism, so this will be irrelevant, but still), nuts, seeds, and legumes. Beans and nut butters are very high in protein. I, for one, never push my eating habits on others and expect the same in return. It's what i chose for myself (and in fact my husband & child are meat eaters). Great article but you are mistaken on some points. I hope you find clarity in what i said and others mention what i may have forgotten. love&light !

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on May 31, 2014:

Carolee - I was dumbstruck for days after watching the Gary Yourofsky video about two parents literally made fun of me for even saying I wasn't going to eat meat ever again. My parents have never both at the same time literally made jokes about me in front of me...except that one time. I couldn't believe it! Well, of course I spent a lot more time thinking about it...and they were right. If both my folks ever joke about something I'm saying again - I'll just know I'm wrong.

These US vegans are horrible persons 99% of the time...they want to make you ashamed of yourself to make you stop eating meat....but if you look at their arguments, they're non-scientific, they're arguments are shamefully stupid.

Those three women I made reference to? They do none of that, they share vegan recipes, and spend NO time at all trying to make an omnivore feel bad for...being an omnivore.

Carolee Samuda from Jamaica on May 31, 2014:

Rastafarians don't usually thrust their beliefs down your throat. They tell you what they believe but that's it. Some Rastas eat meat, not all Rastas are Vegans, as a matter of fact any are vegetarians and most eat fish and chicken.

When I worked in the fitness industry my boss was vegetarian but he always recommend high protein diets for those who want to muscle up. His diet plans for clients included meat (if they were meat eaters). He has never encouraged anyone to not eat meat. At one point I thought that maybe I should cut meat from my diet and he protested. He said that his diet was a matter of personal choice and no one should follow him because he doesn't eat meat. The only animal products he takes are egg whites, cheese and milk.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on May 31, 2014:

Carolee - expecting logic or any sort of scientific facts from US vegans will get you nowhere! LOL...they're bottom of the barrell....except for the three I alluded to, the other two sane ones are our Rasta friend and a US guy living in India I know.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on May 31, 2014:

tsadjatko - CHEERS!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I quite agree with you on that! :)

Carolee Samuda from Jamaica on May 31, 2014:

Saying all meat eating animals should die would upset the earth's eco-system, plain and simple. There is a food chain and eliminating the carnivores would upset that food chain. Where would the fertilizer for the vegetation come from? The protein found in plants is as a result of manure from these animals. No human is fully vegan. Even those who don't eat meat must have some trace of animal products in order to live. Bees pollinate plants, enabling vegetation. Without bees we all die. I say again, NO ONE is fully vegan.

I try yo stay away from people who try to tell me what I should and should not eat. I strongly believe that animals exist for the maintenance of mankind. one animals feeds on the other and human feeds on that animals. Without animals we all die.

The Logician from then to now on on May 31, 2014:

Sooooo, I take it you don't like Vegans. :-)

I can understand why, now that you have laid it out so factually, scientifically and well just plain convincingly.

I wonder if they did a survey of "man made" global warming alarmists (like the ones who say cow farts will destroy the planet), how many of these wackos are guess, 99.9%.

Which is the approval rating I'm giving to this hub page.

Wesman Todd Shaw (author) from Kaufman, Texas on May 31, 2014:

Thanks very much - I spent so much time in that facebook group...holy smoke, at least something got done for all of that. I should do another just so I don't feel like I've wasted so much time for it all.

Claire Evans from South Africa on May 31, 2014:

Well done, Todd. Sums it up nicely.

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