Julie has been undertaking spiritual work for 23 years and imparts her knowledge of meditation and inner experiences through her writing.
Conversations can certainly be thought provoking and stimulating A friend and I bantered about the emanation of and function of the thought process following a simple question. Because of my own experience of slowing down thoughts via the discipline of meditation (the real kind), I was able to formulate this dialogue on the thought process. I wanted to share it with you and perhaps it will tweak your own thoughtform as to the function of our brain as an organ and not the actual creator of ideas.
What information is not.
(Question asked by friend)
We are sure that information does not possess physical properties like mass and charge but as it get translated through mediums its content remains unadjusted. Does this suggest there is an immaterial aspect to information to the mediums through which it is conductible?
Maybe this question could be re-worded into "What thought is not." Information can be obtained from material sources, ie books, computers, videos etc. But how does a person have a new thought and manifest it, or be creative with that thought?
Thoughts are not in the head but are filtered through it, or through the brain. You can experience this by slowing down thoughts and then sourcing the origin. Brave is a philosopher who actually makes his hypothesis experiential!
Experientially there is an immaterial or non-physical aspect to thoughts which are filtered through a conductor being the brain.
So if you say information (thoughts) has been proven to be non-physical (I'm glad it has), then just where does creative thought emanate? I would love science to find out!
The way you treat thoughts or information leads me to believe that you think there are non-physical aspects to the physical mediums that conduct thought. Is that right?
Although on one level you cannot separate them in a functional sense, ie in a physical playing field, but the process of thought can be slowed down to such an extent that you can dissect the parts and discern what is physical and what is non-physical.
Jewels are you suggesting that you can slow down thoughts to a point of purity where you find the term "thought" inadequate?
That's a good question and my answer to it is: Yes. I'd use the word emanation first, then thought. From there, the question would be: What does thought emanate from?
If you go inward and lets say upward far enough then words and thoughts are inadequate - the experiences you have are difficult to find language for, but you can certainly comprehend the experiences. They get filtered down, and by the time they go through brain matter there is a loss of the purity definitely.
Do you think the emanation of thoughts is a physical process? Possibly one we cannot explain. but as your break back the layers in thought to its emanation is it a marrying of the material and immaterial is it one or the other? Do you agree that since information and its content can be preserved through mediums that the divide between what is material and immaterial is only limited perceptions?
No, the emanation of thought is not physical. To experience this keep turning your consciousness inward, the more inward you can go, the more you can see that physicality is vague and quite irrelevant. Tends to make you understand that it's consciousness that's the key, not the physical vehicle that's important. It is true that the closer you get to the physical body the more dense the feeling which suggests that once upon a time (if you'll excuse that analogy) we were less physical than we are now.
Perception is limited by experience. If your only experience is the physical body, you will only ever have perception from the physical arena, which is why people believe that thought comes from the brain. It's mainly because that's what they have been taught and so that's what they take as their experience. If a person was taught to quieten the mind and watch thoughts and then see where they emanated from, then people would understand a different set of teachings, and from an experiential standpoint. Anything other than experience by the way is merely conjecture.
A question is when does a thought begin to stimulate the physical senses and the brain become active in the processing of thoughts. The answer is likely to be: There is no limit to consciousness. The life of a serious spiritual Initiate is one who puts consciousness where there isn't any. The term Sleeper is to describe a person who believes only the written word and lives by the rules taught to him by the authorities around, and never questions the integrity of that authority. An initiate is a pioneer beyond all others, who goes beyond the boundaries of their current state of consciousness and discovers many treasures.
It sounds like you have some experience definitely interesting insight... do you have any guesses as to the origins of consciousness?
To have the answer to that question is the same as asking why creation was formed?
You can reach states of consciousness where you lose reference, this is akin and beyond states of bliss. Bliss is an easy state to reach. States of Self or what the Upanishads call atman is an extreme involuted state which is not easy to reach, paradoxically when you reach it you don't know you have. And it's not until you are out of it do you realise you were in it. The normal muggle will have no concept of this state of consciousness. It has been the experience of many when coming out of experiences of Self that deep levels of emotional turmoil come to the surface.
It is also a state where individuality is lost, this by the way is a transcendental level of human consciousness. From these states words become useless.
Very very interesting Jewels! I have practised some meditation and I have felt the bliss but I don't know if I've reached atam you say that you realzie you were there when you leave. Do you care to elaborate a little for me? This has really turned into a stimulating discussion for me i'm learning a lot!
My Teacher would answer: "If you have to ask then you don't know." It is not a state that can be described to someone, it is beyond descriptive words. But lets say when you have the experience, you know you've had the experience. And if you go looking for it in the initial stages of meditation you will not find it. Anything you look for with the mind, is just the mind. It will get in the way and sabotage your meditation.
Keep going with the bliss and, just keep going.
Thank you very much. The furthest stage I could articulate may very well be bliss. In this stage your body feels whole and you feel your center of graity in the stomach rather than in the head. This is very encouraging and I plan to get back into meditating because of it! thanks for the dedication to the thread!
I very much enjoyed our discussion. It also helped me articulate my own experiences.
Its interesting that for this sort of conversation articulation is the path to ego loss. The more clearly to speak about your minds process the easier it is to push them aside.. using mind to kill mind.
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Jewels (author) from Australia on August 15, 2012:
WoW, I've watched Jill Bolte Taylor's Ted talks. It's wonderful how someone from the science profession is validating what I and others can see. Unfortunately it happened to her via a stroke but what a gift she has been given.
Wizard Of Whimsy from The Sapphire City on August 15, 2012:
markbennis on July 07, 2012:
Yes the synchronicity of all these personal awakenings, the higgs boson potential, 2012 and beyond, and entering into the Age of Aquarius. The global Consciousness peaking ever more and time itself appearing to be speeding up drastically.
The potentials are ever more increasing I would say, :)
Jewels (author) from Australia on July 06, 2012:
Hey Mark, thanks for dropping in. Pleased you have had a flaring which gave you this experience. I beg that those experiences make you want more. Perhaps Higgs boson will mean a speeding up of an expansion of consciousness, so we get to have more experiences outside the box.
markbennis on July 06, 2012:
Very, very interesting jewels and I really do like it, I have reached an altered state of consciousness before and in a rather peculiar way. Where I had begun to see a phasing going on when in the garden like my reality was breathing so to speak. But after some days of just flowing with it when out in the garden, I had an overwhelming activation in and around my heart centre, and my breathing was so energized and connected.
I don’t know what you would call it as such, but the flashes of memory going through my mind whilst it was happening, was that of a quickening. And that’s my interpretation even today of it. It was just amazing, I agree thought originates from consciousness and is filtered down into our minds.
Jewels (author) from Australia on June 01, 2012:
Interesting mentioning a thesaurus, you could certainly say that the space of archetypes has a thesaurus of sorts. Moreso it has a full blown encyclopedia.
Dreams are a whole different ballgame. Though I know firsthand that several of my dreams - the ones I never forget have been prophetic. They are always in technicolor - go figure! Think it's so I see it and don't forget. Even though we all dream every night, I don't usually remember mine so when I do I pay attention. Why they tell you a lot, or how could they? It's primarily your consciousness, it's your experience. While your physical organs rest your consciousness has other experiences. Your life doesn't end when you sleep, you're just not conscious of what happens. Having conscious awareness of what happens when you sleep is Astral Travelling. It doesn't just cover the dream state - this is just one space. I have a hub on AT you may want to check out. So there is a continuum of consciousness occurring. Not everything relates to your day to day life. I've friends who say they 'worked hard in their sleep last night.' Lots going on for them and it felt like they didn't sleep well. Your body got heaps of rest, your mind kept going. Consciousness is fascinating.
CBartelmey from Colorado, United States on June 01, 2012:
I found this interesting because you mention frequently the watching of thoughts, or the slowing down of thoughts where they become more experiences that are then difficult to even find language for. You also mention in one of your comments, “Dreams are a space, a chapter in a state of consciousness.” That most definitely caught my eye because I often ‘see’ or visualize my thoughts before I ever begin to put them to words. That can however make it somewhat difficult because finding that perfect word to represent what I actually mean can sometimes take a lot of effort. If I actually owned a paper copy of a Thesaurus, I probably would have gone through ten by now.
I also dream with such intensity that I often find myself waking up tired. Whatever has been happening in my dream, it literally feels like that is what I have been doing all night instead of sleeping. I can remember having one particular repeating nightmare as a child, and the one morning I woke up and I had had enough. That dream was so real and was basically tearing apart the foundations of everything I knew at the time. I couldn’t go to school, I couldn’t do anything, I stayed at home in bed all day trying to figure out what that dream meant. And that is something that has never gone away, well that dream did, but that intensity with which I dream never has. That is something that has always puzzled me, my dreams tell me a lot, but how possibly could they?
Jewels (author) from Australia on March 09, 2011:
"Abstract, non-physical ideals?" You mean ideas? Ideals would be our judgment of said idea. The brain is the processor of the inspired creative process of thought that is beyond the brain. :)
Shahid Bukhari from My Awareness in Being. on March 09, 2011:
Human Brain ... is a physical "Organ" ... a Structurally Paired Form ... Bonding, at all Levels with Body's Physical Perceptions ,,, In. Spontaneously Defining, the Ideals Substantive, unto the Existent Form ... Unto, Human Awareness.
The Brain, hence, Processes, the Abstract Ideals, Unto Thought ... like the Stomach, Processes Solid Foods, into Nutrition and Blood.
Thoughts ... are Abstract, Non-Physical, Ideals, Emanating from within God Granted Mind ... In, Mind ... being God Granted Definitives ... of Every Form, Existent, In Creation ...
Jewels (author) from Australia on November 11, 2010:
Fantastic that you are inspired to contemplate the mechanism of thoughts. It is a fascinating topic and even moreso when you can experience the separation. Thanks for reading and commenting inspiredbydg.
inspiredbydg from San Diego Ca on November 11, 2010:
I like the beginning of this discussion this dialogging it is thought provoking, and interesting for I'm paused to contemplate what your saying about thoughts are non-physical and are conductor in material for pass through.
I agree I look forward to more reading. Thank you for your hub.
Jewels (author) from Australia on July 04, 2010:
The automatic writing therefore is the unpacking of the thought. It is filtered through the senses. Often, unfortunately it loses it's wholeness by the process of manifesting. The archetype would be the purest form, by the time it gets to paper it has lost a bit of shine. Nonetheless it has been unpacked.
Tom Ware from Sydney, Australia on July 04, 2010:
I've been into Vipassana for twenty-three years and been a practioner of Automatic Writing since 1968. I find that when I 'listen to thought' objectively, it stops. All goes quiet. But I have to remain very alert, very attentive to keep that silence. Before I know it, I'm back identifying and living as an ego; part of the chattering verbal thought.
As to the Automatic Writing (typing,actually) I've long realized that an idea comes fully complete, fully rounded, but that it then has to be 'rolled out' word after word before it can be registered. In other words, the idea is instantaneous, but recording brings to it an element of time.
I hope this adds something to the debate.
Jewels (author) from Australia on June 13, 2010:
If only we were more aware that there is an electric current running through the laptop. We take so much for granted and never look. Interestingly the field of thoughts can be seen as very fast electrical currents, like a highway of lights above the head moving in a horizontal direction. It's only one layer of many to experience. Thanks for adding your thoughts Shealy.
Shealy Healy from USA on June 13, 2010:
Great and thoughtfull. Consciousness understanding is in itself a consciouse act. What a conundrum we humans are.
Lately, I have been thinking we are all as real and aware as the electrical energy running through the wireless networking of our laptop computers.
Jewels (author) from Australia on March 11, 2010:
It's relevant when you can see that you could retain consciousness while not being influenced by your physical senses. Good hub, thanks for the link.
Richard Mankiewicz on March 11, 2010:
this hub might be relevant: Regaining-Consciousness-After-a-Syncope-Neurology-and-Transcendence.
I think it is all electromagnetic - we don't yet fully know all the possible states and interactions of EMF, so best to start somewhere we're sure we know *something*.
Jewels (author) from Australia on February 24, 2010:
Hello again TOD! I loved this discussion. Do you think Barbara Walters would get it? :)
Origins? That's the topic of the greatest philosophers. I believe we are too 'small minded' or too limited in our consciousness to come close to answering that question. The closest a human can fathom is the Absolute, yet to reach that state you would no longer be human. The Absolute is pre-duality, or reunion with a pure state. That's the 'spiritual' answer. I do not believe there is a logical rational answer to it, it's beyond the rational mind.
Twenty One Days on February 23, 2010:
I just re-read this as if you were being interviewed by Barb Walters.
interesting insight...do you have any guesses as to the origins of consciousness?
Purity- as opposed to finite Quality (Duality United).
Retracting an earlier statement: like this hub best. :)
Jewels (author) from Australia on November 30, 2009:
Thankyou Ceciliabeltran, I'm glad you joined this discussion. I like your thoughtforms also in that "consciousness is the experience of light, just as time is the experience of space." Nice. The experience of watching thoughts is key to understanding experientially the mechanisms of thoughts and it's descent into the brain. Fascinating subject.
Cecilia from New York on November 30, 2009:
It is interesting that you asked these questions. I was actually reluctant to write about it because I felt that it was a little bit over a majority of people's heads. I strive to be relevant and not talk to myself.
Your discussion has been my area of research for seven years now. Thought has a physical manifestation that can be measured and observed. While its true that its source is outside of human anatomy, it is filtered (as you put it) through the pathways of our synapses and becomes the experience of thought. In truth thought is nothing more than an experience of spark. It is an experience of a pushing force connecting to a sucking force or a vacuum.
Sparks happens in various levels of experience. The only reason why we are not connecting the physical spark that we see when a match hits the matchbox is we are not a matchstick. But inside our head, sparks light up constantly. There is flash photography going on in our heads. This means we are forming thoughts. In short, light does not come from our heads but it transpires in our heads and allow us to experience being light. We become "enlightened" "bright" "brilliant". The very effect of light in a room is that it informs. Light is knowledge, physically as well as subjectively.
In my opinion, consciousness is the experience of light. Just as time is the experience of space.
I'm glad to be part of this discussion!
lisadpreston from Columbus, Ohio on October 19, 2009:
thank you Jewel and all who commented. I thought i would put my two cents worth in as a comment but it would be too long so maybe this is and idea for me to write about in a hubpage. peace to all.
Jewels (author) from Australia on October 17, 2009:
Consciousness includes experiences and memories, it therefore must encompass a progressive compilation of these. Regardless of perception of what is at any given time, it is still consciousness.
Awakening and Awareness is consciousness knowing itself. Your level of awareness of what's available to become consciousness of depends on how much you are able to see, no limits. It's only spooky if you perceive it to be.
Sean Jankowski from Southern Oregon on October 13, 2009:
Hello Jewels, perhaps I can give some insight here.
The seat of consciousness is not to be found in a mechanical or chemical electrical computer or an algorithm, it is not an esoteric state of mind, it is not the compilation of memories and experiences. These things are nothing more than our perceptions and are parts of consciousness.
Yes consciousness has no physical actualizing factor in that a thought is not physical in nature and yes the chemical electrical algorithms and constructs do create the basis of the programing that allows our brains to react and survive in this world, but consciousness is a much broader thing and yet very simple.
Consciousness is the base for all knowing of everything else. It is the spooky base for which the idea, cognition, thought, emotion, actualization, response... are all based upon. Without it you could not even have had your conversation. Nor could your perception of your reality be perceived. Math is nothing more than code, the programmer is consciousness. Know that you are and that everything is consciousness, that you are conscious. This is the awakening.
Jewels (author) from Australia on August 31, 2009:
Also pjk-artist, I have read the secret and my hub is not really in line with that topic. I also avoid using connotations of religion in my threads as much as possible. The states of consciousness I am referring to in this thread are achievable through meditation practices. Imagination as reality was a topic of Rudolph Steiner. His work may interest you.
Jewels (author) from Australia on August 30, 2009:
I find that to need the existence of God as some external thing leaves one in a quandary and can derail a person. The bible and any spiritual teachings is only ever a guide and truth can only be found inside yourself. You ask are we all God, One Consciousness? From my understanding and experience - yes. We are the emanation of that which is labeled Christ Consciousness or the Solar Logos and these experiences of consciousness are found within. God to me is a label for consciousness which is why mapping consciousness is important. There is a body of knowledge by Dr Samuel Sagan which includes a Language to map consciousness. You could say this man is applying the texts of many religions and ways to spirit, and bridging to a more experiential method.
Understanding or expanding consciousness is very key to re-uniting with this state. Church has never done it for me, it's too limiting. The bible I see has been very misinterpreted and when you expand consciousness and apply the bible or spiritual teachings to your own life, it takes on a very different meaning.
pjk_artist from Turkey Point, ON on August 30, 2009:
I've been thinking about all this "stuff" for years. There's always many thought-provoking theories and techniques and "cross-overs" between science, metaphysics, and religion.
You like me have probably given up on organized religion as a way of discovering "the truth" or "meaning of life" or "inner psychic powers" etc etc etc...
I recently stumbled across a guy named Neville Goddard and when I read and listened to his lectures....he re-convinced me of the existence of God. I figured out consciousness was God even as a child...but Neville explains how ancients discovered the "power of the law of attraction" and "consciousness equals existence" and left the bible as an instruction manual on it all.
So I ask you. Are we all God? One Consciousness, living the lives of each and every person that ever existed or will exist?
Jewels (author) from Australia on July 21, 2009:
Thanks Jon for dropping in. I'm of the belief that if you want it badly enough you will master the stillness. You've found a technique that can help you - go for it.
JonTutor from USA on July 21, 2009:
@Jewels Thanks for all your encouragement.... and if one could really stop our thoughts to a point where we could "physically" spot it.... seems like a point of bliss where no past no future just that absolute moment....you're so advanced..... I'm really impressed with your realizations.... hope one day I can have similar experiences.
Gratitude on June 02, 2009:
This is very thorough and thought provoking. Bookmarked for future reference :)
marinealways24 on May 04, 2009:
By "giving up", I also mean, "relying on anothers answers".
marinealways24 on May 04, 2009:
I would have to disagree to say that "most" do stop looking for answers simply out of giving up. I refuse to quit.
Jewels (author) from Australia on May 03, 2009:
Some never stop asking questions and looking for answers.
marinealways24 on May 03, 2009:
I do not ask for it. It comes with fault. I have now accepted it and found that writing is a "release". When I say it comes with fault, I often think about the "big things" which takes away my ability to appreciate the "small things" if that makes any sense. Another way it happens is from not placing limits on myself. I believe mind is amazing beyond words. I also humble myself to "know nothing" to self-consciously absorb more information. With every plus has a negative, every past has a future, impossible is possible within the individual mind. The individual mind can never be called wrong unless the owner allows it.
Jewels (author) from Australia on May 03, 2009:
Thanks marinealways for dropping in. I've just changed that statement To: "An initiate is a pioneer beyond all others, who goes beyond the boundaries of their current state of consciousness and discovers many treasures." At the end of the date we are only limited by our own consciousness, and it is limitless. The higher mind is void of the dregs of the chatting mind and lower ego. It's such an amazing experience to get up there. Staying up there takes allot of discipline and practice. Few do it.
marinealways24 on May 03, 2009:
"An initiate is a pioneer beyond all others, who goes beyond the boundaries of consciousness and discovers many treasures."
"Its interesting that for this sort of conversation articulation is the path to ego loss the more clearly to speak about your minds process"
These are my 2 favorite quotes. I have always had multiple thoughts coming to me at one time. I will go into deep thought sometimes while driving down the road and lose track of time for up to 5 - 10 minutes. I do not try to do this, it just happens. The more I write my thoughts, the less clouded my mind is. Everything I write, I try to view the "big picture" of things and "read behind the lines". I find it more amusing to search for "what's not there" than to search for "what is there". The biggest tool that has helped me focus free thought is loss of ego, arrogance, and emotion when in thought and trying to find the "root" beyond influence to find true meaning and individual reason.
Jewels (author) from Australia on May 02, 2009:
You go where people fear to tread - my hubs! LOL
I admire your desire to want to see. Bless your cotton socks! I did another hub which is terrible and I must go over it, about the light bulb above the head. Ideas being something we tap into. Is the epiphany the lightbulb? What stimulates the lightbulb? Is it that you tap into the thought, like a superhighway of thoughtform ready to be reached and manifested? So many questions, so much to see and know.
cheaptrick from the bridge of sighs on May 02, 2009:
good god jewels,have mercy.you pour out these insights that stager my mind at times.i'm just a peasent boy from a tiny town on top of a mountian in italy.i have found an interesting way of learning,here is an analagy,the subconscious is like a flood light that iluminates everything organizes it and thrusts it into the conscious mind.we call this an apiphany.the conscious mind is like a tight beamed flash light that focuses on one thing at a time.i "feed my head"by taking info from any source i can validate an absorb it weather i understand it or not.the result has been a very rich libbrary of info when i use inductive thinking.sounds odd but it works very well...peace...
Jewels (author) from Australia on April 30, 2009:
Hey Bo, thanks for coming over. I loved this conversation too and it has withstood the test of a few years!
cheaptrick: Thanks for the compliments. I believe the initial question was physics related and I answered it from experience and how I could see the process. It was one of the first 'intelligent' conversations I engaged in and it was so stimulating.
Qualities is a good word to use for these states and it's really hard to get adjectives. In the school I attend we actually map consciousness and one way of putting a marker on spaces is to use flavors or qualities. Even if there is no sense to naming something chocolate flavor when it doesn't physically taste like chocolate, but the space you feel when you do eat chocolate. Weirdness is an interesting term, wonderous is another good one because some of these spaces are so huge and awesome.
Some people have experienced maths as a high state of consciousness, as with music. Not necessarily the physical manifested music, but the early emanations of it. I've heard that it is math that emanates from music, some say it's the other way around.
I am not a maths geek, but those who are and do meditation and inner consciousness work say that when doing complicated equations, the states are akin to some meditation states. Similar experiences with musicians.
I've heard of someone who wrote a series of books that emanated as music first. I personally would like to fathom this experience. Means there is more to music than the notes and the sound. You can feel music, and you can feel the inner sounds in music, so what else can be in music? Mysteries of the universe!!
cheaptrick from the bridge of sighs on April 29, 2009:
hi jewels.your so articulate i am humbled.i think you guys are beating around a physics bush hear.we know that at some point we will reach the indivisible partical of matter.this begs the question,what is it made of?most physicists agree that it must be qualities like charm,briliance and (my fav)weirdness(my friends say thats me lol).i have seen the math expression that describes this change,the math is strait.do you suppose these snipets of ? could congeal into thoughts as well?i'm just throwin this out there...peace.
1964human from Smallville Kansas on April 06, 2009:
OK This is NEVER going to work. How can I possibly get any writing done if I am over here hanging on your every word?!!! LOL I am your #1 fan!!! All I ask is you just keep sharing! I loved this if you couldn't tell. LOL 2 thumbs (only for lack of having more of them) up!
Jewels (author) from Australia on June 22, 2007:
Hi timmes. I love these stories. Those tangible unexplained experiences. "A strange, blissful sensation overtook my entire body. Ecstacy. White light." Yumm.
Thanks for dropping by.
timmes on June 22, 2007:
Just thought I'd relay a quick story that relates to your discussion. Having worked as a health-care professional for almost ten years, I'm always encouraging my patients to breathe correctly, relax, and generally not take life too seriously. Around four years ago I was treating a very stressed and logical thinking policeman, and he relayed this story to me.
He had been suffering with acute pain down his right arm for the best part of a month. It was driving him crazy; he couldn't sleep properly, his work and relationships were becoming affected, and he was trying a number of physical modalities (gp's,acupuncture, physio, massage) to gain relief without any real success. I myself, had been one of his treating practitioners.
I saw him again a couple of months later, and asked how his right arm had been feeling. He told me that it felt good and strong, with no pain present. Naturally I was curious, and asked him what the straw was that finally broke the camel's back. To the best of my memory, he answered my question as such-
'You know, I think I actually cured myself! I'd remembered that my mother owned an old book of 'mindpower' techniques, so I went around to her place and sure enough, there it was. I only read one chapter, the one about healing ailments, and decided I was going to give it a try.
The first night, I allowed myself to drift and relax, only thinking about all the pain disappearing from my right arm. It didn't work, but I thought it was worth at least a second try. So, the next night I did it again; drifted, relaxed, and allowed my subconscious mind to assume control over the pain that had been crippling me.
And that's when it happened. A strange, blissful sensation overtook my entire body. Ecstacy. White light. If anybody had walked into the room just then they would have seen me grinning from ear to ear like the town idiot. Naturally my logical mind kicked in and started sounding alarm bells, and that's when I jumped up from the couch. You know, I've tried to get back to that state again, but have had no success. The one thing I can say emphatically though, is that there has been no pain in my right arm since then.'
It was a fascinating conversation with a guy steeped in a career fashioned by rules and laws. It also made me question if we can all reach this state of 'bliss', and if so, what ailments are we really capable of curing?
Jewels (author) from Australia on June 15, 2007:
Bliss is a very easy state to get to when regularly practicing meditation. Of course there are days when all you get with meditation is blah blah blah, ceaseless thoughts.
Meditating upon thought - well that is breaking the rules of meditation!!! LOL.
In seriousness, sometimes it does not pay to keep asking why why why, fruitless questions that you will often not get the answer to. States of consciousness are a field that requires stillness, patience, discipline. Understanding the states is difficult, but experiencing them is not.
miahbell, your question is not clear to me. It is refreshing that I find people who are questioning consciousness and not taking for granted, or sleeping through a life in a state of complacency.
I find for myself that when I twist myself in knots trying to use thoughts to understand thoughts, it pays to just let it go. It is often my mind wanting reasons for everything that goes on in the world.
But going inward into your third eye, into a color, a sensation, sound, blackness, purple color, is the focal point for centredness and stillness that will give you the sense of bliss time and time again. Its seriously better than drugs and you don't get a hangover afterwards!
Spaces upon spaces upon spaces. Dreams are a space, a chapter in a state of consciousness.
So restful to let go into the blackness of the third eye.
miahbell on June 15, 2007:
I believe that there is a bliss withhin everysingle one of us. I also tend to think that a mind that is clouded by images of say peace and perfect things, all in order that it tends to expect the same out of everyone around them and there are flaws within all of us that have it not a pure fault of our own. Therefore to say that one person's Heavenly Bliss would be the same that there being of another, is incorrect. Just because my perfect world would include one thing and not the other that they would have be to them-Perfect, does not mean that the two worlds are not Heavenly. In mind over matter, which I believe is what Jewels is making a referrence toward, I agree that the viewpoint of by which you attain your final conclusion and thereby putting into effect what should be and that one has had the least in opportunity to experience as the situation at conclusive hand by from which many different viewpoints and mediums,( if you could qualify art as another form of expression that does have an impact on one's own thinking) could extend the relational objective guideline in order to form a final conclusive opinion; and have it be there-Bliss. Like whenever some look at the Mona Lisa for instance...one would be like "Oh she's breathtaking!"...,another would say,"Notice the perfect brush strokes..."and admire the skill of the artist and not the actual painting that is a portrait of an actual Being. Then to add yet another opinion or viewpoint and you have let's say,..."Why do her eyes follow you when you look at them"....? To combine them all and you have the artist in complete woo over the admiration of his skill, the model completely being admired for her beauty,(which is why I think she was chosen for or posed for in the first place, and the question as to where one would find themselves at a leisure to enjoy the fact that her eyes are shaped so perfect that you could not telll whether or not the right one was the left . To find your conscieciousness mind stimulated by more in a mindfully aware state of mind that is not physical, but more directively pointing and paying attention to details more than just experience that you have when in the physical form you see something or do something.And definitely..., More than you would have if say...you viewed the painting all by yourself? Is this then to limit yourself to causing your inner being to question its' own identity and therefore cause a lot of unneeded turmoil. I have been to this very thought process over and over and I still find myself pausing at that which is to so many childish and ridiculous. Then again it is mostly the oppposite with I when action applies. Where one would go outside and see if the rain was actually in all actuallity pouring from the sky...I believe you and stay inside instead of getting wet. Do you find it that whenever you add some music that has water flowing in the background, that you can take your mind to an exact memory in your mind? Or would it make you have to urinate; as to the extremity of yourself in pure thought uninterrupted and actually having a consciential mind that knows how to level matter to mind in more than just experience ,dreams,meditation and projecting? This is a serios question that I ask as I have found it that when I meditate "upon the thought", and "with thought in mind", being two different states of mind, but both on the same level of my awareness. How then do separate the two and gain from each a level mind that can separate the two? I get insulted for instance in my dreams and I react the same. Only difference is that in my dreams no one stops to say anything and my nightmares are now fully dreams that are carried out, unless I have an impact of some sort that makes I twitch and therefore awaken. In actual life I get angry at the same situation, but do nothing about it at all, and sometimes I find myself meditating to contain myself and my conscious mind,(my fully awake mind), overlaps into my dreams and that weird deja vu feeling arises and to the point that I have to actually touch something to make certain that it is really there. I think that Bliss eludes I in so many forms, although I notice each aspect of It as being a Heaven. Goodnight..
bluewings from Milkyway on June 14, 2007:
It's a tremendous feeling when you can reach the finer elements of consciousness and understand the origin of thoughts,when it's not yet a thought (physical) ,but just a prethought.When we convey messages telepathically ,I think, it's in this form and not thoughts,that they are transmitted .I didn't go back to that discussion later.I knew that guy was sincere.I realised that you had experienced deeper forms of meditation ,but it's only now when I see you talking about atman,upanishads that I understand how honest is your knowledge/realisation of the self.I tried reading those books , but I felt if I have to assimilate and experience it then I will need to take a break from living (lol),but hopefully ,eventually,I will get there.You should Most definitely start a blog if you have time.Before I started reading the hub I thought that picture (at the bottom ) was powerful , but now I think it doesn't even begin to measure up to the wisdom in this article! Oh btw,it's 4.30 AM here and you made my day!lol