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Is Prejudicial Discrimination the Answer?

I love HubPages, but the senior members in the forums make me feel unwelcome.

is-prejudicial-discrimination-the-answer

When I first came on to HubPages, I was excited to see a wonderful community of amateur writers and authors sharing such an open and accepting space. All the articles, opinions, bios, videos... it felt so welcoming to someone such as myself who is always seeking a kind outlet for their thoughts. The more I browse the forums, however, the more I find that senior members of the community are seeking to start a witch hunt against those underprivileged and those they deem otherwise "beneath them."

Though I often visit the forum to privately message Hubbers who aren't receiving constructive criticism, or the criticism is laced with hateful and harassing connotations, I think I am going to avoid it from now on due to the lack of regulation as it concerns the toxicity of the more senior members.

Yikes....

As I sit here and write this there is a conversation going on in the forums about how to "weed out" potential writers of low quality by instituting a way to prejudge writer skills before they are able to join. I have to admit, that this being a pretty open community, such mentalities make me feel as if they want me to throw a Star of David on people as my ancestors were forced to endure before fleeing to America. Perhaps that is an unfair comparison, but within that same post individuals are saying things such as:

"...weed out people who will never be successful here and just wasting everyone's time."

"We don’t need time wasters who will probably never get featured, let alone get a spot on the niche sites."

"Rarely does anyone who is a poor writer at the start, improve enough to become a decent earner."

This isn't even the half of it but it is where I will stop. These terrible, misguided things being said about potential writers for HubPages come from some of the same people who just ridiculed me for trying to offer my help to another Hubber trying to get published because they felt he was lesser than them in skill. What is their defense for calling for prejudicial and discriminatory practices on HubPages?

"In-house traffic and forum posts don't generate any revenue. The forum may, once again, become an interesting and useful feature without all the "help me pass QAP" posts which in fact is a means of HP management passing the buck of editing onto members."

I'm sure you can see why this makes me uncomfortable, as the same people who claim to want to help their fellow Hubbers are in the forums as I type this disparaging them.

Can't we all be a loving and accepting community that seeks to help those struggling, rather than disparaging and discouraging them before they even get a chance?

I can't stand hypocrisy.

is-prejudicial-discrimination-the-answer

Encourage New Hubbers

With the warm fuzzy feeling of my first featured article being long gone, and even further those warm fuzzy feelings being stomped out by the seemingly ever-present senior members within the forum, I now see why Hubbers are leaving in droves. Now, I'm not going to be heading out any time soon, I still like HubPages and I can't let these toxic senior members of which I speak poison my view of the other members who don't want to put new members on a figurative burning pyre of angst; but I can openly advocate for a better solution than prejudice and discrimination.

Continue to do what you are doing HubPages staffers, your software is doing quite well considering the type of business you own and the subsequent income it brings in, and I know you are exploring new and fair ways to increase the quality of the community. What you could do, however, is have a more dedicated staffer for forum and article reports who takes the time to look over things objectively rather than subjectively. Biting wit that would better be equated to direct harassment should not go without consequence. Calling for discrimination against new Hubbers, and offering nothing more than disparaging solutions should not go without consequence either.

More justice, less wrongdoing, and may we all get to make HubPages an exceedingly wonderful place for all who would choose to partake.

Comments

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 06, 2020:

@Margaret: You are welcome, and I'm sorry you had to experience similar situations as the ones I wrote about here. No one deserves to be spoken down to, or discriminated against. Keep writing, as I enjoy all that you post!

@Meg: Yes you are correct that the niche sites do discriminate in order to find what they deem "quality articles" and often I feel that what it takes to be "worthy" of the niche sites is inconsistent or otherwise vague.

DreamerMeg from Northern Ireland on March 06, 2020:

I don't often look at the forum at all. I just read the notifications and comment on the Hubs that attract me and those who have commented on mine. I just do not have time to do more. I thought we already had discrimination in the Hubs anyway. All articles start out as Hubs and only get moved across to the other sites if considered worthy, in terms of content, writing standards and traffic.

Margaret Pan from Athens on March 06, 2020:

My thoughts exactly! Thank you for writing this. I have read many forum posts and noticed that there were numerous times when senior members were very judgemental or responded with irony and stupid jokes. Just because you're making money here (which is logical when you write for this platform for 10+ years) doesn't mean you're better than others or that you have better writing skills.

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 06, 2020:

@Bushra: Thank you, Bushra, we should all be able to stand up for our perceptions without hatred being flung forth.

I assure you, Allen, that I am a litigious individual and that is the only assurances you will get from me as I always operate within the law. Now, please, no more harassment in the future.

Thank you!

Allen Edwards from Iowa on March 06, 2020:

@Ky: Ok Kyler, this has been going on 2 Long¹¹²(**)!

No, you don't have 2 thank me. I don't pretend to understand how the "coincidences" of this -- my present reality -- finger punching on a tiny luminous screen could have produced the ultimate outcome of..."Ky and "T" are, now, "Best Buds"! But hell, I'm just happy it made your day^¹¹1⅛¹¹^

We can all take a "deep breath" and thank the magic of "the net" to have come together in the spirit of obtaining..#⁰⁰that of which you'll find, by and by⁰⁰#

I am also trying "Real Hard" not to feel "threatened" by ...

"@Allen, I will not ask you again to stop harassing me"

"Your behavior is beginning to border on defamation, and I don't take kindly to such nonsense."

...But, can you please give me your assurance that your intentions toward me would not be of any kind that "anyone" could construe as, bordering on illegal?

Anya Ali from Rabwah, Pakistan on March 06, 2020:

Cool of you to stand up to what you perceive as wrong, Kyler.

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 06, 2020:

Yes, I'm quickly coming to that unfortunate realization. I guess the silver lining here is that it'll provide for great future content about those who'd parade themselves as saviors while being nothing more than parasites.

The Logician from then to now on on March 06, 2020:

Kyler, you’ll find that it’s quite common in this writing community that some people take pleasure in belittling others they deem inferior to their abilities or talents. Instead of simply ignoring them and letting them alone to find their own way they take pleasure in rubbing their deficiencies in their face. As if they are being somehow inconvenienced by their shortcomings they feel they have to get even by belittling the person.

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 06, 2020:

@AL: Now that I have addressed the behavior you can see clearly, now, is a problem not just within the forums I'm sure you can understand why I cannot accept your invalidation of my claims about the atrocious behavior within the forums. In fact, I wasn't expecting these individuals to come and prove my point, but that further shows the counterproductive, prejudicial, discriminatory attitude that underlies the sentiments you are arguing against.

I can't, morally nor logically, defend these people in any capacity who "go out of their way" to "help" people when they are unwilling to help those who need it most. Even calling for the outright ousting of individuals who deserve to be here like everyone else.

The Logician from then to now on on March 06, 2020:

Kyler she has lost it the moment I pointed out her hypocrisy.

And I in no way meant to be passive aggressive. See that is her narcisstic elitism taking over and raising a straw man.

I meant what I said verbatim. I had to reread his comment to get it and I meant every word about his unique writing style. For me to have to reread him to fully understand him to me makes his writing style unique and impressive. I was in no way attempting to dis him or condescend. That idea would definitely be projection by Bev G because she has already demonstrated how she thinks about others.

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 06, 2020:

I never mentioned passive-aggressive comments, do not lump my argument with your bitterness and projecting your claims on others, Bev. Biting wit is directly aggressive and should be treated as such.

Bev G from Wales, UK on March 06, 2020:

I think, 'T' that,

"I must say though from what I’ve seen here your writing style is unique. I had to reread your comments to actually grasp your meaning which was excellently expressed, and which gives you an idea of how dense I can be."

Is exactly the kind of passive-aggressive comment that Kyler is referring to.

And, 'T', while we're at it, why don't you pop into the forum and offer your advice, seeing as you feel able to advise me on what I should or shouldn't do?

See you there?

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 06, 2020:

The bitterness here is ridiculous, and has further proven my point.

Thanks for reading my article, though, I appreciate that you could give me that small courtesy.

@Allen, I will not ask you again to stop harassing me. If you'd like to clear the situation between Vladimir Karas and I that is one thing, but you have not once sought an impartial stance on the topic and are instead allowing yourself to be biased without the full story. Your behavior is beginning to border on defamation, and I don't take kindly to such nonsense.

The Logician from then to now on on March 06, 2020:

Allen, just observations anyone can make, nothing meant to be implied.

I must say though from what I’ve seen here your writing style is unique. I had to reread your comments to actually grasp your meaning which was excellently expressed, and which gives you an idea of how dense I can be.

I would love to read some articles written by you as I surmise you have a real skill of expression which is almost poetic.

Sorry to hear that you have these medical problems and I by no means intend to aggravate. I will pray for your good health and take a lot of antioxidants!

Allen Edwards from Iowa on March 06, 2020:

So "T"..can I call you "T". I can not tell if your post was directed more towards provoking in me, a response for :1) My lack of "literary production" or 2) My inadequacies in having reached a "Senior" status, and still being unable to "learn something"?

Please do Not feel the need to respond in any way that would potentially turn into a "pissing contest"...I have an enormously enlarged prostate, and a very abnormal bladder -- cancer 16 years -- so there would be "no doubt" of your picking up that "golden fluid filled" goblet of victory.

The Logician from then to now on on March 06, 2020:

So Allen, you are the Senior type? I see you’ve been a hubber 10 years, so I guess that qualifies you as a senior type? I thought a senior type might have at least one featured article? You learn something new every day I guess.

Allen Edwards from Iowa on March 06, 2020:

Be very CAREFUL Bev G! It's not just "a bee"...it's "the swarm", and they are all looking for that "sweetest" of all nectar.."Knowledge of the Senior Experience Type"(¹⅛). But, the trick we must master, is to offer it without offending the (almost 3 decade): "Evolution to master of all that really matters"..queen bee¹⁴⁵⁷⁸¹⅛

The Logician from then to now on on March 06, 2020:

If your bee in the bonnet is "Every single day, along comes a newbie who cannot read and write English. We cannot teach them how to write a decent article unless they have a decent grasp of the language."

and if helping those "newbies" is such a lost cause, instead of suffering that "you should either avoid the forums or ignore the threads you don't like."

The Logician from then to now on on March 06, 2020:

Bev G,

I think you need to read Kyler’s article again. He is not complaining about “Those who very obviously have no chance (until they improve their skills) are told that.”

He referenced comments like these;

“...weed out people who will never be successful here and just wasting everyone's time."

"We don’t need time wasters who will probably never get featured, let alone get a spot on the niche sites."

"Rarely does anyone who is a poor writer at the start, improve enough to become a decent earner."

Are those your way of telling him he needs to improve?

What those comments are is condescension meant to harm not to help anyone! Some people are so full of themselves they have no empathy.

Bev G from Wales, UK on March 06, 2020:

The thing is, Kyler, is that us 'seniors' have spent years helping and offering feedback when requested. Every single day, along comes a newbie who cannot read and write English. We cannot teach them how to write a decent article unless they have a decent grasp of the language.

Anyone who puts in some effort, who produces an article with potential is encouraged and set on the right track. Those who very obviously have no chance (until they improve their skills) are told that. To tell them otherwise would be doing them a disservice.

Some of those people get angry, having read some forum post in their native country that they can come to Hubpages and earn a fortune. It's the way it goes.

You seem to have some bee in your bonnet about underlying hidden meanings and there's nothing any of us can do about that except suggest that you either avoid the forums or ignore the threads you don't like.

AL from South Equator, East Pacific on March 05, 2020:

Hello, Kyler.

I was involved in the forum conversation you referred to in the article, I was in fact on the other end of those comments. I understand the frustrations expressed, the forums can be very daunting for new hubbers.

Different opinions are expressed because we are all different individuals, how we react to differences also differs. I am also a new hubber, I might not agree with some of the views expressed by older hubbers, but in no terms would I consider their views nonsensical or hypocritical. The same hubbers I was involved in a conversation with, are the same hubbers who offered help when I posted a query in the forums. I usually interact with them in the forums, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. Learning to live with disagreements is what creates a community.

With regards to new hubbers, I was a new hubber 8 weeks ago, when I first posted a question in the forums. The responses were very blunt and honest, I might not have liked some responses, but I took it as constructive criticism. It is therefore important to highlight context behind the criticism of a new hubber in the forums. I believe if you want to achieve anything, developing a thick skin should be the first thing. If a new hubber has drive and passion for writing, forum comments should be the least of his worries.

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 05, 2020:

Yes, I often get compared to those who live in San Francisco just because I am from California, it is irritating to be associated with the unfavorable demographics here. I still don't see why, as a writer, you'd want anyone to be silenced, you know? It is like saying:

"Please, make rules that will be used to silence me by people operating with the same spite and bitterness that saw the rules created in the first place."

Absolutely counterproductive.

The Logician from then to now on on March 05, 2020:

The offenders hide behind “freedom of speech” as a license to spew condescension, hatred and looniness.

Consider this, hub pages is based in San Francisco, you know, the city that has to create maps to show you where you can walk without stepping in human feces.

Kyler J Falk (author) from California on March 05, 2020:

I just don't understand the hypocrisy in it all and why the staff of HubPages allows it to occur. It hurts HubPages to allow these senior members to run around spewing their nonsense.

The Logician from then to now on on March 05, 2020:

Kyler, all you needed to do was google hubpages reviews to know what you were getting into.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/hubpages.ht...

Evidently the best writers here making the most money don’t even care to give HP a positive review! What’s that tell you?

I have been on here for over 9 years, through many growing pains. What I find unbelievable is that no one I’ve ever spoken to about it has taken the time to figure out exactly what they are making from their work per hour invested. I’ve gotten all kinds of answers to that question that only make me feel like nobody cares.

I never opted to make money because early on from what I could discern about how many articles it takes to make some money and how much time it was taking me to write and service the articles I had written I could not imagine it possible to make enough to be a worthwhile endeavor for my time invested.

While all that may say little for my writing talent it says a lot about just what a crapshoot making money here is. There are so many changing variables to deal with in my mind the thing to do is write about what and how you love to and if it makes you money that’s just icing on the cake even if it only covers one layer of cake!

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